Game of Thrones Thread

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Spellskite said:
Listen, I feel you. There are some stellar moments this season (mind you, I only watched three of the episodes, but they had some good stuff). The Tyrion/Cersei stuff was fantastic, for example. Great acting, great performances. But its obvious that there is zero effort being put into the writing anymore. Some plotlines (looking at you, Winterfell) were literally just there to kill time and to emotionally manipulate the viewer. We've gone from seasons where you had to actually pay attention to character dialogue to seasons where you have to just flat out assume every scene you're watching is designed to trick you for a super shocking moment meant to appeal to youtubers and viewing parties.

There are only six episodes left to conclude the series and there is little indication that D&D will be able to wrap it up in a decent manner.
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To be completely fair to D&D, it's not all their fault. Remember, they signed up to adapt a book series into a TV show, not to write the end of the entire fucking series. When they started working on the first season of GoT, I really doubt they thought they'd be out of book material by the time they finished adapting A Dance With Dragons. Like, it's been six years since ADWD was published and so far all GRRM has said about The Winds of Winter has been "I guess it might be out in a year or something, I dunno."

Honestly, I think George should just take a year off and help D&D write the final season. I doubt we'll see The Winds of Winter before the final season premieres anyway, and God only knows when A Dream of Spring will see the light of day, so why not help write a satisfying end to the TV show?
 
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Cosmos said:
To be completely fair to D&D, it's not all their fault. Remember, they signed up to adapt a book series into a TV show, not to write the end of the entire fucking series. When they started working on the first season of GoT, I really doubt they thought they'd be out of book material by the time they finished adapting A Dance With Dragons. Like, it's been six years since ADWD was published and so far all GRRM has said about The Winds of Winter has been "I guess it might be out in a year or something, I dunno."

Honestly, I think George should just take a year off and help D&D write the final season. I doubt we'll see The Winds of Winter before the final season premieres anyway, and God only knows when A Dream of Spring will see the light of day, so why not help write a satisfying end to the TV show?
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Oh no, its absolutely not all their fault. I really wish George would write stuff beyond blog posts about Trump and football. I'm sure D&D expected to coast on more content for the whole ride. But they were given bullet points with major events, told the ending, and know how various characters end up. How they handled that information is clearly part of the problem, because they just decided rather than plan things out in the long term, they would just wing it season to season, with characters moving from plot point to plot point with little thought put into the "how" or "why" of that character's motivation and development. This lead to certain characters they liked getting plot armor while acting completely erratically (Arya) or taking on additional plot lines (Jon, Sansa), while other characters they didn't like got the boot because they knew they wouldn't matter in the finale (looking at you, Stannis and Victarion). We have situations where they try to adapt something and immediately regret it (Dorne), which completely fucks up the pacing of the series. Season 5 in general was them spinning their wheels and hoping to stall for time to get more content from George, and when that failed they just doubled down on fanservice and appealing to watch parties. Its just been a muddled mess and you can tell they really, really hadn't given much thought to how they would actually handle these characters and plotlines on their own; we have retcons nearly every episode to back this up.

This poor planning has finally bit them in the ass, as the series culminates in a nonsensical cliche-fest. D&D can point fingers all they like, but they had YEARS working on this show, working with the actors, working with a massive budget to sort these issues out - if they really cared about storytelling, the work would be there. So we can only assume that they are incompetent or lazy. Either one spells bad things for the finale of the series, because we can see they care more about the spectacle compared to the storytelling.

George clearly does not like the direction they took with the show and I doubt he would help them now. He would rather tweet about hats and what a great show The Last Kingdom is. Probably didn't help that whenever D&D did anything controversial (such as Stannis burning Shireen), they would pin the responsibility on George in the Inside The Episode segments. I'm sure after that nonsense, George felt less inclined to help them out of the hole they dug themselves into.
 
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one one hand I found littlefinger's death satisfying bc lol he got played and the kids were working together against him but on the other hand it was very disappointing. he used to be a great villain, plotting schemes in the background but in the last few seasons his antics beacme more and more obvious and he just a mere caricature, doing nothing but twisting hit goatie and smiling at the camera. I feel like they could have done more with him before killing him off, it felt lazy, like they didn't knew what to do with him anymore so he got the dagger

and sure the whole winterfell plot was forseeable as fuck, I think someone here predicted it, but the ending was still nice, seeing the kids get along. would've been nicer if they've gotten along from the start instead of forcing in some illogical drama for drama's sake

and I think the writers forgot Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon with Elia?

I found the writing/direction in the finale particularly off, sure some scenes were awesome like Cersei and Tyrion, but some were really awkward like the entire Theon sequenze. it was really hit miss

I find it odd how incosistent the writing became after D&d ran out of book material. I mean, they are professional writers and they got a ton of background info, they should be able to write a compelling plot and story without handholding from a different author, but they obviously aren't.
 
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TheAmazingAxolotl said:
I can see a prequel series working, but since everything is set up in GoT already, people would just go in knowing that young Robby B gets pissed off at Rhaegar and becomes king just like people went into the Star Wars prequels knowing it was about how Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader.
Of course there's more than just Robert's Rebellion that could work for a prequel, e.g. the Century of Blood, Aegon's conquest of Westeros, the Greyjoy Rebellion could work even. But, I'd rather just leave it at what it is now and the lore is told through dialogue and flashback rather than an entire extended universe like Star Wars has/had.
Of course I haven't read the books nor do I know what other things GRRM has written so I could very well be saying this without knowing there's already an extended universe.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Dunk_and_Egg is a strong possibility.

Question for lorefags: Would Gendry still have a strong claim to the throne, at least stronger than Cersei's?

My biggest complaint:
Jon and Dany's romance was very uninspired. I believe this is universally agreed?
 
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beansntoast said:
and I think the writers forgot Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon with Elia?
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Rhaegar really wanted a son called Aegon to be the Prince That Was Promised, it's basically the same as the belief in Islamic communities that Muhammed will come back one day and so they always name their first born sons that, just in case
 
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Mariposa Electrique said:
I have a question to ask. I saw this season's finale and was thoroughly unimpressed with it. Sure, little finger's death was very satisfying, and the reunion between the two sisters as well. A zombie leaping at Cersei was great, and so was the dragon melting the wall. There was no epic death scene that had you hanging on the edge of your chair, and Theon's redemption scene was just flat. I was expecting another death scene to top last season's finale of death by wildfire, it was really bone chilling. Did anyone else find this season's finale a bit anticlimactic?
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I agree. With the way this season's episodes have ended, like when Jamie fell into the water and the episode ended (that was beautiful and chilling) , the finale ending just wasnt memorable enough.

It would have been cool to end the episode with the night King flying out with the Dragon and end it with a roar, instead of showing the Dragon knocking down the wall and having everyone act like idiots and not moving away until the last minute.

Or end the episode with all the snow falling all over westoros and ending it at the Cersei's map room, that would have been incredible beautiful and foreboding.
 
beansntoast said:
and I think the writers forgot Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon with Elia?
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I did a little research and found something about how the original Aegon was swapped out with an imposter and is living in hiding with the Golden Company who have sworn to put this Aegon back on the throne. I have not read this far into the books so I can't confirm it; I think the two Aegons meeting each other would be a great premise, unfortunately they're running out of time.
 
John Titor said:
I did a little research and found something about how the original Aegon was swapped out with an imposter and is living in hiding with the Golden Company who have sworn to put this Aegon back on the throne. I have not read this far into the books so I can't confirm it; I think the two Aegons meeting each other would be a great premise, unfortunately they're running out of time.
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it could work in the books, but i doubt it'll show in the show
 
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Deadwaste said:
it could work in the books, but i doubt it'll show in the show
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That's what I meant. Final season is going to be six episodes, there's no time to introduce him and season finales always seem to be the worst time to introduce new characters.
 
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Ralphthemoviemaker put out a pretty good review of season 7. I highly recommend giving it a watch, it's both funny and insightful. While I enjoyed season 7 a lot, I definitely understand and agree with a lot of his criticisms.
 
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John Titor said:
That's what I meant. Final season is going to be six episodes, there's no time to introduce him and season finales always seem to be the worst time to introduce new characters.
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Most of the plot points of "Aegon" and his lead knight have been merged into Danerys and Jorah's characters on the show.
 
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So finished A Feast for Crows.
Who do you think Margaery's Moon Tea is for? Was she using it on herself? Or on one of her ladies or cousins?

Also, with regards to the show and the book.

I've noticed one the show and in the books, the legitimate Stark children/ones who matter (sorry Rickon) are starting to resemble the Lannisters. Sansa is becoming a smarter version of Cersei. Bran and Tyrion have a lot of parallels (Tyrion is a dwarf, Bran is a cripple. Tyrion is intelligent, Bran knows everything), and then, through reading the books, I've noticed an interesting parallel between Arya and Jaime, both being the middle children in the family. They are both killers who are walking a moral tightrope. But GRRM did some interesting things in Jaime's chapters in AFFC. Jaime is repeating the names of the men who Tyrion alleged Cersei slept with, much like Arya's list she repeats in her head. He also refers to his sword practicing with Ilyn Payne as "dancing" much like Arya's "dancing" when she practices. Except Arya doesn't want to bang Sansa.
 
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darkhorse816 said:
So finished A Feast for Crows.
Who do you think Margaery's Moon Tea is for? Was she using it on herself? Or on one of her ladies or cousins?

Also, with regards to the show and the book.

I've noticed one the show and in the books, the legitimate Stark children/ones who matter (sorry Rickon) are starting to resemble the Lannisters. Sansa is becoming a smarter version of Cersei. Bran and Tyrion have a lot of parallels (Tyrion is a dwarf, Bran is a cripple. Tyrion is intelligent, Bran knows everything), and then, through reading the books, I've noticed an interesting parallel between Arya and Jaime, both being the middle children in the family. They are both killers who are walking a moral tightrope. But GRRM did some interesting things in Jaime's chapters in AFFC. Jaime is repeating the names of the men who Tyrion alleged Cersei slept with, much like Arya's list she repeats in her head. He also refers to his sword practicing with Ilyn Payne as "dancing" much like Arya's "dancing" when she practices. Except Arya doesn't want to bang Sansa.
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I almost want to believe that the moon tea is a red herring, that it doesn't have anything to do with Margaery but is instead meant to abort another Cersei/Jaime baby that the Tyrells somehow got wind of.
 
darkhorse816 said:
So finished A Feast for Crows.
Who do you think Margaery's Moon Tea is for? Was she using it on herself? Or on one of her ladies or cousins?

Also, with regards to the show and the book.

I've noticed one the show and in the books, the legitimate Stark children/ones who matter (sorry Rickon) are starting to resemble the Lannisters. Sansa is becoming a smarter version of Cersei. Bran and Tyrion have a lot of parallels (Tyrion is a dwarf, Bran is a cripple. Tyrion is intelligent, Bran knows everything), and then, through reading the books, I've noticed an interesting parallel between Arya and Jaime, both being the middle children in the family. They are both killers who are walking a moral tightrope. But GRRM did some interesting things in Jaime's chapters in AFFC. Jaime is repeating the names of the men who Tyrion alleged Cersei slept with, much like Arya's list she repeats in her head. He also refers to his sword practicing with Ilyn Payne as "dancing" much like Arya's "dancing" when she practices. Except Arya doesn't want to bang Sansa.
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There's the distinct possibility that all the moon tea stuff is just a ploy to make Cersei do something stupid. I'm just not sure who Margaery would be having sex with, given the current situation at KL's. I like the show's portrayal of Marge but I also like how in the KL chapters, we only really have Cersei to go on in terms of visuals, and that bitch is crazy. There's a real possibility Margaery is more of an innocent figure than the show's portrayal, and that she isn't up to any wacky schemes. Ceresei's worst enemy has always been herself.

I'm personally more invested in what happened to Loras. We never actually see what happened at Dragonstone and in taking that castle, it would be a strong foothold not for the Lannisters but for the Tyrells. Given that Dany is soon coming across the sea, and given the history of what the Tyrells did when Aegon came over, I think a pivotal alliance is in store.
 
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Also some more thoughts on AFFC, sorry if it sounds like a thesis essay. I just kind of want to gather my thoughts.

The Dorne plot is so much better! The Sand Snakes are fun characters, each given a different personality and way of handling their father's death. I love Arianne. So one of the themes I noticed was the idea of women in power: you have Cersei, Arianne, and Asha. All three women want power.

Cersei is desperately clinging onto it, and willing to do anything to keep it. However, Cersei also is an idiot, and doesn't care how many people she hurts, and how many important relationships she breaks. She doesn't care about the kingdom, she cares about herself. As well, she's a total hypocrite--she hates misogyny when it's directed at her, but she spews it out towards other women who are ambitious who she doesn't like. So when Cersei gets taken prisoner at the end I was like "fuck yeah, bitch".

Arianne, like Cersei is afraid of losing power, but unlike Cersei she lives in Dorne and was allowed to be powerful, ambitious. Poor girl is afraid of it all going away, and her brother becoming the Prince of Dorne instead of her. And she feels bad because she thinks she did something wrong to upset her father. But she also wants vengeance too. Like Cersei she uses her body, but she plays the long seduction game. Unlike Cersei, she also has friends, legitimate friends. And she doesn't want to hurt anyone in order to seize the throne (except the Lannisters because fuck them--well some of them). So I was really sad when her plan fell apart.

Asha, unlike Cersei and Arianne is more masculine and doesn't adhere to Westeros's gender roles (although Arianne's attitude towards sex doesn't adhere to it either. Both Arianne and Asha are very cavalier about sex, they enjoy it, it's a wonderful thing for them). And Asha legitimately cares about the Iron Islands, and, let's face it, is the best choice to sit on the Salt Throne. Victarion's dull, and Euron is insane. Asha cares about the good of her people and is the most down to earth, she's aware of the realities of war, of what they fought so hard to gain (fucking pinecones!). Also I love her, she's so much fun. Unfortunately, the Iron Islands suck, Euron has a horn, so she can't be queen. So she runs away, which is a smart move because Euron is fucking insane.

Anyway, out of those three, who is your favorite? Cersei, Arianne, or Asha?
 
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