Moral responsibility when a friend troons out

Slowboat to China

Slowboat to China

Level 6 Hairy Hands Syndrome
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Feb 3, 2013
Sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, but I wasn't sure where else to put it.

The TL;DR is that a dear friend of mine, a woman my age, is transitioning into a man. Unfortunately, she has all the hallmarks of a transtrender a la Milo Stewart: yaoi boi fetishization, no stated dysphoria, no formal diagnosis, a prior record of adopting and dropping dramatic identities, etcetera. Given that the pair of us met in a "special school," and if even a quarter of the life story she told me is true then her childhood was one long uninterrupted rape, I could believe it's a desire to escape from trauma--but I'm concerned about her future. She's already on testosterone, and if she doesn't have dysphoria now, she could well be heading towards it.

I've tried to talk to her and suggest that maybe she's just gender-nonconforming (part of her argument for her trans status rests on the idea that she doesn't fit female stereotypes), but she's convinced she's genuinely trans. I don't want to be labeled a "hater" or cut off from her, and of course I can't know what's going on inside her head, so I'm keeping my peace for now. But I'm worried about her.

Furthermore, I may bear some responsibility for this. This is going to sound incredibly spergy, but I introduced her to anime back in high school. She latched onto the whole pretty-boy idea and I indulged it with the usual teen girl stupid text roleplay. Unfortunately, she never let go of it. If her yaoi boi obsession turns into medical transition, I'm partially responsible for what happens to her.

What should I do, kiwis? Should I hold my peace? Speak up? Is this none of my goddamn business and I should STFU and stop moralfagging? How do you handle it when a friend may be making a dangerous life choice?
 
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Slowboat to China said:
What should I do, kiwis? Should I hold my peace? Speak up? Is this none of my goddamn business and I should STFU and stop moralfagging? How do you handle it when a friend may be making a dangerous life choice?
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As much as I talk shit here, friends are friends. You support them.

You can't force them to do anything or change. At most, you can tell them you think they're headed for a fall, and you can't even be all that forceful about that. They'll probably ignore you, just like they ignored you when you told them the latest relationship they were getting into with some psycho was doomed and obviously a bad idea.

If none of it affects you directly, keep in touch. And even if it does, let them know you'll still be around for them if they need you.

No matter how much you care, you can not stop people from doing dumb things.

Don't just disconnect, though. That's always a mistake.
 
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Slowboat to China said:
she has all the hallmarks of a transtrender a la Milo Stewart: yaoi boi fetishization, no stated dysphoria, no formal diagnosis, a prior record of adopting and dropping dramatic identities, etcetera. Given that the pair of us met in a "special school," [...]
What should I do, kiwis?
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Start a thread on her, duh.

Seriously though, there isn't much if anything you can do for her. If you try to dictate her life she'll only grow farther from you and double down on gender special ideology out of spite.
 
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I feel like you should definitely speak up, even if she isn't going to listen to you. I think when someone makes a destructive decision its the job of a true friend to hold them accountable. When, not if, they get pissy, walk away and let the chips fall as they may. You did your part and gave them the truth they needed to hear. If you try to make them listen, thats when things become detrimental for you, and you need to look out for yourself first.

Some people (and maybe your friend isn't this way) do this kind of thing specifically because they want people to worry over them and if you become too engaged in caring about your friend's poor decision, you risk giving them exactly what they want and encouraging them. Don't waste time trying to fix someone who wants to break themselves because if you take care of yourself and do right in life, you can easily make lots of new friends.
 
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rappaport said:
I feel like you should definitely speak up, even if she isn't going to listen to you. I think when someone makes a destructive decision its the job of a true friend to hold them accountable. When, not if, they get pissy, walk away and let the chips fall as they may.
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Speak up to a minimal extent, and back the fuck off when it becomes incredibly obvious the dumb idiot isn't going to listen to you.

You actually can't force people to agree with you.

I have two ways of dealing with idiots. My favorite one is just to abuse them and insult them and enjoy their angry responses.

Then there are people I like. You have to treat them kindly. You have to understand why they think what they do, and treat their viewpoints with respect. They're not going to change their minds because you bully them. This actually just strengthens their views. This is actually why it's really fun to bully the really dumb ones so they get radicalized enough that they end up representing the viewpoint you hate.

People only change their minds when they think that they thought out their new ideas themselves.
 
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I had this shit happen to me in highschool. I wish I knew more and was less of coward. Of course he was into nerd shit, and that's a staple of troonism. I'm not sure about reversal, but there are precautions you should take to encourage friends to not consider transitioning at all. Do L.A.D. (which I just invented):
  1. ENCOURAGE LIFTING: lifting increases testosterone, fixes hormonal problems and makes you think clearer.
  2. ANTAGONIZE: Casually show some troon lowcows, it makes people not even want to imagine being a troon.
  3. ENCOURAGE GOOD DIET: No sugar. No carbs. No soy. Also fixes hormonal problems.
 
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Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I have a lot of thinking to do. I did try speaking to her earlier today, asking about getting a proper psychiatric diagnosis and mentioning the gender-nonconforming thing, but she's pretty much set down a wall: getting T makes her happy, so she's sure she's trans, end of discussion. My fear is that if I push the issue, she'll shut me out now, and I won't be able to help her if it falls apart later.

She did tell me that her GP suggested she might be trans. Do GPs generally provide diagnoses like that?

Dink Smallwood said:
put her out of her misery
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Cricket said:
Get a new friend
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timecop said:
stop making friends on deviantart
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Never change, KF. <3
 
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Your friend is a tard, and from the sounds of it still young. She's going through what I call Arthoe Syndrome, which is basically a girl that takes testosterone, cuts her hair short or does a jew perm, and has an obnoxious fetish for making everything GAY(tm).

As such, I don't see these kinds of people as trans, if anything the line between fiction and reality is blurred, and they begin to live their alternate online persona offline in person.

And more common than not, it's always the insecure ones who normally would have jumped a cliff in history.

So what can you do? Nothing. You can ask them questions on occasion, you can continue to be their friend, but you can't intervene in their choices right now. They have to learn from their mistakes, and learn to decide if what they are doing is the right thing to do. It's not up to you to be their guardian any longer.

If she goes down the rat king rabbit hole, though, just subtly and silently drop her. Don't say anything, just gradually slow communication to a halt until you are just passing acquaintances.
 
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@AnOminous is right as usual.

The best thing to do is what you should always be doing with your friends and family, which is supporting and lifting them up. If they're going to troon, they're going to troon, but the best way to prevent it is probably to enrich their life as it is currently.
 
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Jewed Hunter said:
I had this shit happen to me in highschool. I wish I knew more and was less of coward. Of course he was into nerd shit, and that's a staple of troonism. I'm not sure about reversal, but there are precautions you should take to encourage friends to not consider transitioning at all. Do L.A.D. (which I just invented):
  1. ENCOURAGE LIFTING: lifting increases testosterone, fixes hormonal problems and makes you think clearer.
  2. ANTAGONIZE: Casually show some troon lowcows, it makes people not even want to imagine being a troon.
  3. ENCOURAGE GOOD DIET: No sugar. No carbs. No soy. Also fixes hormonal problems.
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This is more suitable to males, to be honest.
 
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