Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Pikimon]

Who cares?

 

[GloryHole Stalker]

SocJus pandering is nothing new in comics. Look back at 70's Marvel and the Black characters that popped up then. Luke Cage, a nod to Blaxploitation movie characters if there ever was one, seems to be one that was good enough to stick around.
Allow me to sperg, and powerlevel a bit. I'm a life long Incredible Hulk fan. I started reading and collecting the character since the early 80's, up thru about 2010-2011 or so. I've since read that they killed off Bruce Banner and replaced him with Amadeus Cho, an Asian character and Cho is the new Hulk . Cho was an established character within the Marvel universe (perhaps a bit stereotyped as his power was literally intelligence). So I guess since the Cho character didn't have enough legs to carry his own series, they decide to shoehorn him in as the new Hulk. All in the name of diversity. Oh well.

 

[Robotron]

SocJus pandering is nothing new in comics. Look back at 70's Marvel and the Black characters that popped up then. Luke Cage, a nod to Blaxploitation movie characters if there ever was one, seems to be one that was good enough to stick around.
Allow me to sperg, and powerlevel a bit. I'm a life long Incredible Hulk fan. I started reading and collecting the character since the early 80's, up thru about 2010-2011 or so. I've since read that they killed off Bruce Banner and replaced him with Amadeus Cho, an Asian character and Cho is the new Hulk . Cho was an established character within the Marvel universe (perhaps a bit stereotyped as his power was literally intelligence). So I guess since the Cho character didn't have enough legs to carry his own series, they decide to shoehorn him in as the new Hulk. All in the name of diversity. Oh well.

The main problem with socjus pandering nowadays is that it honestly seems quite forced. Instead of focusing on the actual character, they instead put major focus on the traits of the character, like how the new Iceman is only known for being gay now.

 

[AJ 447]

The main problem with socjus pandering nowadays is that it honestly seems quite forced. Instead of focusing on the actual character, they instead put major focus on the traits of the character, like how the new Iceman is only known for being gay now.

This, along with Marvel fishing for asspats by only hiring (unqualified) writers who match the character, like Sina Grace and Gabby Rivera.

 

[KM 749]

Who cares?

Any internet salt or spergdom is our business, regardless of what shit we need to stick our noses in.

 

[RockVolnutt]

Any internet salt or spergdom is our business, regardless of what shit we need to stick our noses in.

We need to start posting more screenshots. I might get to that tomorrow.

 

[Robotron]

Any internet salt or spergdom is our business, regardless of what shit we need to stick our noses in.

And if we can't find any internet drama, then we'll make it on our own!

 

[Stalovna]

Here's something I really don't get about their diversity push. Why are they replacing existing heroes (Lady Thor etc.) instead of creating new ones?

Why actually try and create a new diverse hero or villain character when you can just take a character, make them fat/ugly/both, and make all the focus about their diversity traits, like how they'll never shut up about being gay or how men need to be slaughtered because women are oppressed.

On top of that, the existing characters already have a built-in consumer base, who will purchase the comic regardless of the change (at least for a while). With the amount of sub-par talent at Marvel, it’s too much of a risk to take the time to create a new “diverse” character and build up the audience.

 

[Jaimas]

Here's something I really don't get about their diversity push. Why are they replacing existing heroes (Lady Thor etc.) instead of creating new ones?

I can answer that.

It's the same reason you see this same shit pop up in any hobby or industry these fuckers inevitably horn in on: movies, video games, collectible card games, role-playing pen-and-paper games - the form will differ, but the result is invariably the same. Doesn't matter if you're looking at sites like Cracked that ate the SJW pill and essentially became complete cancer, or you're looking at companies which decided, seemingly apropos of nothing, that they should turn against their fucking customers - they will suddenly become obsessed with feeding their own works into a paper-shredder for the sake of "appealing to an expanded audience." This "expanded audience," of course, is only the ideologues who now hold the reins, and this "appealing" will take the form of rote pandering and virtue-signaling.

They have no respect for legacy, for existing fanbases (they see existing fans, in fact, as an enemy to be vanquished), authorial intent, or pre-established canon. Part of this is the postmodernist thread that weaves through university and is responsible for a chunk of this crap, but a bigger chunk of it is because they want to outright destroy the foundations of an existing work and replace it with their own. Only by completely eviscerating said foundations can they then proceed to build it back up in their own image. For probably the ur-example of this shit, look up the Trans Samus Incident and Kadybat's little spergout during it. She makes very clear why she's doing it. They do not care if their doing this ultimately kills the franchise they control; better to kill it than let the filthy people who actually care about it have it.

This shit is endemic. No matter where you look, if you find a community that's been captured, you will see them doing it.

Nothing about this is even remotely the shitstorm that GG was. Woopety do, Comics sales are in decline. The rest is culture war stuff.

That culture war stuff is exactly why this shit keeps fucking happening, Transvaalan. The reason all these minor GG-like events are being called "xGate" (and I fucking hate this too) is because, in general, they have the exact fucking same causes, reasons for happening, and ideology causing it. Hell, some of them even have the same fucking clowns involved (would it surprise any of you to learn that many Anti-CG spergs are also Anti-GG spergs, and that one of them, Gabby Rivera, is a long-time associate of Kiva Bay?).

There's no way to stop it, just back up, chronicle the 'tism as it happens, laugh at those taking it way too seriously, and stress sigh when these assholes who started this faggotry in the first place inevitably go off to infest something else like any good tumor.

 

[Feline Darkmage]

Nick Spencer? You mean the same Nick Spencer that Jake googleshngs about being a nazi because he once said something problematic about ANTIFA?

Source: 2nd half of this post in the SGG thread

 

[Transvaalan]

@Jaimas
Yes and? None of these fuckers on this site want to hear it, and if they do, they most definitely don't want anyone counting the long, hooked noses.

 

[Done]

Urghhhhh... not #Comicsgate. I was wondering when this would pop up on the Farms.

Hell, you could very well do a CW thread on a bunch of people and sites within the comics industry, like The Outhousers, Bleeding Cool, Rich Johnson, Gail Simone, Kieron Gillen, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Bryan Lee O'Malley, Scott Alie, John Byrne, Erik Larsen, Chuck Dixon, G. Willow Wilson, Robert Kirkman (who became the very thing he railed against when he went strictly creator-owned, the moment he founded Skybound), etc. Regardless of what "side" they fall on politically and whatnot, nearly everyone in the comics industry is a lolcow in varying degrees, even going way far back as the 90's and before then.

This kind of behavior is in no way endemic to just the last 10 years, not by any means. Even then, a lot of the earlier stuff has become hearsay as there was no such thing as Twitter back in the day, so there isn't a whole lot of proof to some of the more scandalous claims.

Strangely enough, outside of the whole Eddie Berganza fiasco, DC has largely tried to be "above it all" since Rebirth launched. Though given they also hired Mags Vissagio, well... we'll see.

This is going to be the long-term plan of this thread, to become a Comics Industry Community Watch thread, I'll even change the name after a few months.

I think this thread will spawn a few individual threads. And don't get me started on Kelly Sue DeConnick:

Diversity and Comics's reply video has over x20 the views of the original, let that sink in, it's also much funnier:

All right. @neural and several others have asked me to chime in on this Autism-fest, and I do actually have some data to give, so break out the popcorn because it's longpost time.

The so-called Comicsgate incident is analogous to multiple similar things that have occurred in other hobbies and entertainment media (even the 41st Millenium hasn't been immune), and, indeed, may as well be a subsidiary continuation of Gamergate which proceeded it, because it's the exact same fucking thing in terms of how it happened: A bunch of entitled pricks who demonstrably aren't the customer-base moving in and bringing with them a culture war nobody fucking asked for. Because of this, you're gonna notice tons of overlap in terms of both the guilty parties (ideologues who want to change everything to suit the needs of a small but vocal minority, consequences and financial results be damned) vs the customer base (who recognizes that they don't care about the hobby they claim to want to help, and wants them to fuck off, stop ruining shit, and go the fuck away).

So let me get this shit out of the way now: If you're the kind of person who hates that these things keep fucking happening, who hates the fact that GG carried on for a year and we're still seeing the consequences now, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you: This is only going to keep fucking happening until the ideologies responsible for them happening (read: Social Justice and identity politics) finally die off sufficiently. Now, there is some good news: That's already sort of happening. The problem is that this shit has years in 'em before they finally peter out completely, because companies still haven't learned that capitulating to these clowns is economic suicide. They do not support the products they whine for and they do not care about the franchises they subsume. This has been proven over and over again, whether it's Marvel's SJW branch bleeding the company white financially, the economic failure of titles like Sunset and similar in vidya, or that whole Ghostbusters 2016 thing. Social Justice Warriors are, at best, an infintessimally small minority - they're just really fucking good at being loud.

Now, If you're wondering why shit like this keeps happening, it's because the ideology responsible for it (again, Social Justice/extreme leftism) essentially centers around and encourages cronyism. There is a pathological state of systemic capture with these groups; one usually gets in, often via being a diversity hire or consultant, before appointing people of their own in order to achieve ideological hegemony over the leadership of a given organization. Once they've taken it over, they proceed to use it to proselytize about how cool and awesome they are - a sort of congratulatory wank-session/massive virtue signal salvo - before they begin using their new platform to push the same fucking horseshit (identity politics, crazypants feminism, troon/pedo acceptance, etc). Eventually the consumerbase rallies, and either boycotts until the company is forced to eject them for doing nothing but lose money (Marvel comics) or the companies they occupy eventually go under because nobody wants the shit they're selling (Bioware). Rinse, repeat.

This is going to keep happening. No fandom is immune, and no hobby is safe. Eventually, gods be thanked, this will stop, but not until you see dozens of these minor "Gamergate lite" incidents.

Love this post, you can clearly see the similarities between comics and other SJW-infested media in that they're all struggling on their own, and thus, the companies bring on the SJW stuff as part of trying anything that may work, this is where the infestation begins.

I already stated this in the MTG salt thread, but one of the reasons that the Comicsgate movement managed to get this far without much autism on the pro-CG part is because Comic shipment data are being tracked and published monthly to the public, unlike other media where you have to be working in some specific place to see sufficiently detailed data.

Pretty surprised Dan Slott, writer for Amazing Spider-Man, isn’t mentioned in the Anti side

Anything to say about Dan slot?

I heard hes anti CG and a real big asshole

He will be added to the OP soon, Dan Slott is one of the biggest assholes in SJW Marvel, he was recently pushed aside from what was a 5-year(?) run on Amazing Spider-Man, which is Marvel's flagship book starring its flagship character.

I need to find the exact time where he says it but there's a weird moment in the Mark Waid interview on Ethan's channel where Waid insists he's "privileged" for being a 60 year old man with no one to look after and that's why he's big into Social Justice. It's also the reasoning behind his "THE STRONG MUST PROTECT THE WEAK" meme that blew up in his face. He was using that on Twitter and in his Captain America comics.

THE STRONG MUST PROTECT THE WEAK.

If you don't know what it is, you can watch this video (shaky cam warning):

If anyone finds Mark Waid on Twitter again, you need to make a thread, it will be the easiest thread ever. He is also the kind of guy who will get on here too and start arguing with people, which is great.

Here's something I really don't get about their diversity push. Why are they replacing existing heroes (Lady Thor etc.) instead of creating new ones?

Because it's too much work to make a new hero, and they don't have the skills for it.

Seriously, watch an America roast video and you'll see what I mean.

For all the dumb things DC does, I can at least take comfort in the fact that it's impossible for them to be as exceptional as Marvel is if they tried.

DC is doing relatively great, they are now officially the #1 selling comics company in the country, their video games sell well, their TV Series are well-reviewed and have a fandom of their own going..

.. They're also triggering Bob Chipman by merely putting out movies, which is always great to see.

Nick Spencer? You mean the same Nick Spencer that Jake googleshngs about being a nazi because he once said something problematic about ANTIFA?

Source: 2nd half of this post in the SGG thread

One and the same.

God, even SJW comic creators aren't good enough for Jake. That's how he will die alone.

 

[Android raptor]

DC has shown that it has at least learned from the New 52 debacle. We shall see if C.B. learns from the mistakes of Alonso. The mass cancellations of the SJW titles were a good start, but a lot of Alonso's cronies still have their jobs and I fear they may try to undermine any effort to get Marvel back on track.

For all the things people say about Dan DiDio, the guy has a degree of likability that Alonso never came close to. Same for Geoff Johns, who can still come off as a fanboy whereas Alonso and Broovert are hipster fags trying to appeal to millennials who pirate their product.



Disney certainly did not buy Marvel for the comics. I only pray that the MCU does not fall prey to the social justice/identity politics nonsense, but part of Spider-Man: Homecoming had me concerned and I have a bad feeling about Black Panther and Captain Marvel.

If it leaks too hard into the movies I doubt it will last. The normies that make up a bulk of audience members don't want to spend money on identity politics preaching, especially not China and other international markets. If daddy Disney starts not making as much money as they'd like with the movies I'm pretty sure they'll pull the plug ASAP on whatever is causing it.

 

[Bork Laser]

No that is a child’s book

but how do i then compare complex political situations to actions that occurred in said child's book.

 

[Jaimas]

Nick Spencer? You mean the same Nick Spencer that Jake googleshngs about being a nazi because he once said something problematic about ANTIFA?

Source: 2nd half of this post in the SGG thread

One and the same.

You're going to see these same clowns pop up from the woodwork, as they always do, Darkmage.

And that, of course, means more salt for us.

@Jaimas
Yes and? None of these fuckers on this site want to here it, and if they do, they most definitely don't want anyone counting the long, hooked noses.

There's already been some fucking spectacular meltdowns from this shit already. Many of them are fucking comic gold.

Here's one of my favorites:

Former Marvel employee.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

With the amount of sub-par talent at Marvel, it’s too much of a risk to take the time to create a new “diverse” character and build up the audience.

Agreed. Marvel tried to push Mosaic as the next major new character for Marvel Now 2.0 and the title tanked. It probably did not help that the character had Inhuman origins and Marvel was pushing the Inhumans as ersatz mutants because of Perlmutter's vendetta against 20th Century Fox. Now it appears Marvel may sweep the Inhumans under the rug now that the television mini-series was an epic failure and Disney has the X-Men rights.

It makes me wonder if Marvel will downplay the Inhuman element of Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl (both of whom are editor's pets who are shielded from cancellation, for now) in the future.

 

[Pepito The Cat]

Thanks @neural, this is a really good and informative thread. Lots of information and very well put.

Now, I wanted to add something interesting to the conversation but Jaimas post said it all in a much more comprehensive way my english will ever achieve.

Spoiler: Jaimas long post

All right. @neural and several others have asked me to chime in on this Autism-fest, and I do actually have some data to give, so break out the popcorn because it's longpost time.

The so-called Comicsgate incident is analogous to multiple similar things that have occurred in other hobbies and entertainment media (even the 41st Millenium hasn't been immune), and, indeed, may as well be a subsidiary continuation of Gamergate which proceeded it, because it's the exact same fucking thing in terms of how it happened: A bunch of entitled pricks who demonstrably aren't the customer-base moving in and bringing with them a culture war nobody fucking asked for. Because of this, you're gonna notice tons of overlap in terms of both the guilty parties (ideologues who want to change everything to suit the needs of a small but vocal minority, consequences and financial results be damned) vs the customer base (who recognizes that they don't care about the hobby they claim to want to help, and wants them to fuck off, stop ruining shit, and go the fuck away).

So let me get this shit out of the way now: If you're the kind of person who hates that these things keep fucking happening, who hates the fact that GG carried on for a year and we're still seeing the consequences now, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you: This is only going to keep fucking happening until the ideologies responsible for them happening (read: Social Justice and identity politics) finally die off sufficiently. Now, there is some good news: That's already sort of happening. The problem is that this shit has years in 'em before they finally peter out completely, because companies still haven't learned that capitulating to these clowns is economic suicide. They do not support the products they whine for and they do not care about the franchises they subsume. This has been proven over and over again, whether it's Marvel's SJW branch bleeding the company white financially, the economic failure of titles like Sunset and similar in vidya, or that whole Ghostbusters 2016 thing. Social Justice Warriors are, at best, an infintessimally small minority - they're just really fucking good at being loud.

Now, If you're wondering why shit like this keeps happening, it's because the ideology responsible for it (again, Social Justice/extreme leftism) essentially centers around and encourages cronyism. There is a pathological state of systemic capture with these groups; one usually gets in, often via being a diversity hire or consultant, before appointing people of their own in order to achieve ideological hegemony over the leadership of a given organization. Once they've taken it over, they proceed to use it to proselytize about how cool and awesome they are - a sort of congratulatory wank-session/massive virtue signal salvo - before they begin using their new platform to push the same fucking horseshit (identity politics, crazypants feminism, troon/pedo acceptance, etc). Eventually the consumerbase rallies, and either boycotts until the company is forced to eject them for doing nothing but lose money (Marvel comics) or the companies they occupy eventually go under because nobody wants the shit they're selling (Bioware). Rinse, repeat.

This is going to keep happening. No fandom is immune, and no hobby is safe. Eventually, gods be thanked, this will stop, but not until you see dozens of these minor "Gamergate lite" incidents.

When the SJWs choose to consider the fanbase they are catering to as a problem rather than as an audience, and especially when that fanbase is the original prototype for gatekeeping and nerd rage, it’s no wonder they end up with such a reaction.

It’s a particle accelerator of spergdom.

I don't think they even consider the fanbase. It seems they just want to get the message out there, amplify the virtue signal and accuse any critics as bigots and nazis. As I see it, for them, this is a full-on war against the norm and nothing more. Why, tho? That's a topic for another thread.

This guy is a professional asshat.

And much like all the above fucking gates, this shit does nothing to change the inexorable decay and lingering death of that media, other than maybe somewhat hastening it (due to both more fans tuning out in disgust, and potential new fans put off by all the shit being thrown between both sides) and making the whole affair a heck of a lot more hilarious for us jews here on the farms

This. A million times this. The entertainment business of old are in the middle of a downward spiral and SJW taking over is just a symptom, not the cause. Same goes for the videogame industry, the movie making industry and so forth. When a medium is unable to evolve, it gets desperate. This is the result of decades of non-evolution and lack of vision. Take the Team Fortress 2 comics, for instance; they use the fully digital medium to its advance with the paneling and the release method. Why doesn't Marvel go full digital with a subscription fee? Why don't they take the Netflix route and only print on-demand? Wouldn't be great to pay for an entire digital series and just buy a physical copy whenever you like it enough to actually have it? Invest in such platform, get with the times and stop feeding these talentless beggars who make a product that nobody actually consumes. I wanna be entertained, not preached god dammit!

Now, I wanted to add a bit of sperging regarding the America Chavez comic while its still fresh (I kinda-sorta-read it today, not really paying much attention because it was unbearable). As a strong latinx man, I find it horrendous and truly, deeply offending. I'm not gonna talk about the stupid plot or the awful art because I feel entitled to bitch about the latino roots of this character and their surrounding posse of stereotypes.
We are NOT like that. We are NOT. I don't go around speaking a half assed english while walking in New York or California. I don't pretend you to understand words such as "Chancleta" (flip flop) or "Cohete" (rocket) because muh latino roots or some bullshit like that. I always try to improve my english and speak it as fluently as possible when talking to someone. I don't expect you to celebrate my holidays, eat my food or even RESPECT any of my backwater traditions (we have plenty).
I do NOT appreciate how they always picture us as half-black with black curly hair. Those are Mexicans, Peruvians, Bolivians and mixed race people, not the gross of our 625 million-something population. If you have a race problem in your shithole, don't drag us into it.
But what really grind my gears is how irresponsibly immature, hot headed and retarded you think we are. America Chavez is a gay leftist spewing 'tard who knows nothing of the true struggles of Latin American people. She is a poser, a fake, a charade of a true South American. She wants to be the one punching Hitler for the pretty picture, conveniently ignoring the fact most South American countries took Nazi refugees and formed alliances with the axis powers. And don't get me started on the communist purges. Not all of them were orchestrated by the big bad CIA, oh no. There wouldn't be any leftist populism if things were done right.

We are not your tool (your shield, if you prefer) and you all dangerhairs can go fuck a cactus long and wide.

 

[AJ 447]

America Chavez is a gay leftist spewing 'tard who knows nothing of the true struggles of Latin American people. She is a poser, a fake, a charade of a true South American.

She's not even Latino, she's a fucking alien. That's what's really wild about the whole thing.

 

[Done]

(would it surprise any of you to learn that many Anti-CG spergs are also Anti-GG spergs, and that one of them, Gabby Rivera, is a long-time associate of Kiva Bay?).

Funny, I actually noted this in another thread. @emspex is already working on a thread for her.

It's funny, I've actually been working on a Gabby Rivera thread. I'll probably be done in the next day or two.

Now you know which subforum Gabby belongs to. Let me know if you need any help.

There's already been some fucking spectacular meltdowns from this shit already. Many of them are fucking comic gold.

Here's one of my favorites:

Former Marvel employee.

Anyone who calls anyone working in comics a Chad sure knows what they're talking about.

And you can see what I said about numbers being public and accessible, the 2nd reply to that autistic tweetstorm immediately cites Image Comic's sales numbers, this is why Comicsgate has seen more success/liter of autism.

Agreed. Marvel tried to push Mosaic as the next major new character for Marvel Now 2.0 and the title tanked. It probably did not help that the character had Inhuman origins and Marvel was pushing the Inhumans as ersatz mutants because of Perlmutter's vendetta against 20th Century Fox. Now it appears Marvel may sweep the Inhumans under the rug now that the television mini-series was an epic failure and Disney has the X-Men rights.

It makes me wonder if Marvel will downplay the Inhuman element of Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl (both of whom are editor's pets who are shielded from cancellation, for now) in the future.

Ms. Marvel will probably stay in some manner, maybe as part of a team book if they have to cancel the book. And she's honestly one of the better introduced new heroes, because she is part of the few non-static brands of Marvel (See how many imcumbents there are of the name Captain Marvel compared to Spider-Man or Hulk).

And the Inhumans push felt very wrong from the beginning, Perlmutter should be fired at this point.

 

[guillotine]

I can answer that.
They have no respect for legacy, for existing fanbases (they see existing fans, in fact, as an enemy to be vanquished), authorial intent, or pre-established canon.

Neither do most major comic book company execs, historically.