Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

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That thing left development because it didn't get rewarded for simply existing.

Well, guess I'll have to eat my hat now. I hope at least it gives people the right idea about who these people are and what they want. For people not knowing, the dude in question is a long time maintainer and has done a lot of work on the kernel. I hope this backfires on them.
 
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Marvin said:
Honestly, esr is just the right wing version of an sjw diversity hire. He's got strong, exceptional opinions about stuff and doesn't actually do that much coding. He's pretty much libertarian Randi Harper.
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Not going to argue with you about esr's credibility on these things but they have successfully pulled this shit off in the past. Jacob Appelbaum is a good example. I take your point about Linus being too old though, I guess something like that probably wouldn't stick.

Something is going on here though. There's no way Linus would write such a pathetic browbeaten apology like that on his own and then approve the CoC right after. Only kindergarteners need bullshit rules like be nice to each other and Linus of all people should understand that.

The whole thing it beginning to look like a coup to me. Someone is tired of Linus calling all the shots. The purpose of the CoC is to keep Linus in line. Those things are so broad and vague it's impossible to follow it 100% of the time. That is the whole point, pick any random person and a handful of community interactions and you'll be able to weasel some kind of CoC violation into existence.

Obviously SJWs love that shit but the I think the real danger is corporations are starting to notice. Remember what happened to jamiebuilds a few pages ago. He didn't get kicked out of Lerna for his retarded licence change or disrupting the community with his toxic politics, he got kicked out for pissing off the project's corporate overloards (Palantir). The community leader didn't even need give a reason or any evidence. All he had to do was stand up and say 2 magic words "CoC violation". Boom, pack your bags, gtfo.

I suspect corporations are starting to see CoCs exactly the same way SJWs do. And there's a lot of corporate interest in the Linux kernel. That's my 2 cents.
 
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emuemuemu said:
Jacob Appelbaum is a good example.
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This seems to have more of a political bent to it, and it's a very specific situation. It's also very disturbing. If I was a tor contributor, I'd ask Steele, point blank, to address the Zeit article that tears the allegations to bits. You can't just sit there, with the two parallel narratives (one much better researched than the other) and go "welp, we disagree". No, point-by-point, address it.

In general, I object to the idea that there's a conspiracy of ordinary SJWs, a roving band looking to attack random men for no reason (or just the petty reason of "fighting patriarchy"). That's what esr is basically claiming and I find it silly.
emuemuemu said:
Something is going on here though. There's no way Linus would write such a pathetic browbeaten apology like that on his own and then approve the CoC right after.
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Yeah, I'm sure someone put the idea into his head. Maybe exploiting his parental feelings towards his daughter, backed up by corporate pressure.
emuemuemu said:
Only kindergarteners need bullshit rules like be nice to each other and Linus of all people should understand that.
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Oh, I think it's the exact opposite. It's because of people like Linus why these rules are necessary. Ordinarily, I would imagine that people have the good sense to not, say, curse at people while reviewing their PRs. That sounds cartoonish. A grown adult chimping out like that? Calm the fuck down, jesus.

And yet... there's Linus. I'm too optimistic about people, I guess.
emuemuemu said:
The whole thing it beginning to look like a coup to me. Someone is tired of Linus calling all the shots. The purpose of the CoC is to keep Linus in line. Those things are so broad and vague it's impossible to follow it 100% of the time. That is the whole point, pick any random person and a handful of community interactions and you'll be able to weasel some kind of CoC violation into existence.

Obviously SJWs love that shit but the I think the real danger is corporations are starting to notice. Remember what happened to jamiebuilds a few pages ago. He didn't get kicked out of Lerna for his exceptional licence change or disrupting the community with his toxic politics, he got kicked out for pissing off the project's corporate overloards (Palantir). The community leader didn't even need give a reason or any evidence. All he had to do was stand up and say 2 magic words "CoC violation". Boom, pack your bags, gtfo.

I suspect corporations are starting to see CoCs exactly the same way SJWs do. And there's a lot of corporate interest in the Linux kernel. That's my 2 cents.
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Oh definitely. I think corporate pressure is behind a lot of this sorta thing.
 
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Marvin said:
This seems to have more of a political bent to it, and it's a very specific situation. It's also very disturbing. If I was a tor contributor, I'd ask Steele, point blank, to address the Zeit article that tears the allegations to bits. You can't just sit there, with the two parallel narratives (one much better researched than the other) and go "welp, we disagree". No, point-by-point, address it.

In general, I object to the idea that there's a conspiracy of ordinary SJWs, a roving band looking to attack random men for no reason (or just the petty reason of "fighting patriarchy"). That's what esr is basically claiming and I find it silly.

Yeah, I'm sure someone put the idea into his head. Maybe exploiting his parental feelings towards his daughter, backed up by corporate pressure.

Oh, I think it's the exact opposite. It's because of people like Linus why these rules are necessary. Ordinarily, I would imagine that people have the good sense to not, say, curse at people while reviewing their PRs. That sounds cartoonish. A grown adult chimping out like that? Calm the fuck down, jesus.

And yet... there's Linus. I'm too optimistic about people, I guess.

Oh definitely. I think corporate pressure is behind a lot of this sorta thing.
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Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, Marvin, but isn't the guy Sarah Sharp is going after here, Ted Tso, the guy who refused to go along with Intel's demand for RDRAND number generation? And it later got revealed that the reason Intel wanted it was because they were working with the NSA to install hardware backdoors?
 
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Jaimas said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, Marvin, but isn't the guy Sarah Sharp is going after here, Ted Tso, the guy who refused to go along with Intel's demand for RDRAND number generation? And it later got revealed that the reason Intel wanted it was because they were working with the NSA to install hardware backdoors?
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I don't know much about Sarah Sharp and Ted Tso. Link?
 
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Marvin said:
I don't know much about Sarah Sharp and Ted Tso. Link?
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Sharp herself is a nutjob who recently decided she was nonbinary. About 2 years ago she had a sad and attacked Linus and the Linux community repeatedly because Linus is a big meanie-head and refuses to reign in the community's ability to call shit coders shit:

I have the utmost respect for the technical efforts of the Linux kernel community. They have scaled and grown a project that is focused on maintaining some of the highest coding standards out there. The focus on technical excellence, in combination with overloaded maintainers, and people with different cultural and social norms, means that Linux kernel maintainers are often blunt, rude, or brutal to get their job done. Top Linux kernel developers often yell at each other in order to correct each other’s behavior.

That’s not a communication style that works for me. I need communication that is technically brutal but personally respectful. I need people to correct my behavior when I’m doing something wrong (either technically or socially) without tearing me down as a person. We are human. We make mistakes, and we correct them. We get frustrated with someone, we over-react, and then we apologize and try to work together towards a solution.

I would prefer the communication style within the Linux kernel community to be more respectful. I would prefer that maintainers find healthier ways to communicate when they are frustrated. I would prefer that the Linux kernel have more maintainers so that they wouldn’t have to be terse or blunt.
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The Linux community called this behavior out for what it was. Sharp was a member of the Ada Initiative, who was apparently, if rumor is to be believed, trying to honeytrap Linus for years. The Ada Initiative purportedly closed down three years ago, but according to tech spergs it really just rebranded itself and fragmented into a number of "Diversity Consulting Firms."

As for Theodore Tso, he's the one who shot down Intel's demand for RDRAND number generation, and Linus Torvald backed him up:

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The article he linked is as follows:

By this year, the Sigint Enabling Project had found ways inside some of the encryption chips that scramble information for businesses and governments, either by working with chipmakers to insert back doors or by exploiting security flaws, according to the documents. The agency also expected to gain full unencrypted access to an unnamed major Internet phone call and text service; to a Middle Eastern Internet service; and to the communications of three foreign governments.
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It's never been proven, but many believe that the RDRAND was demanded by Intel for such a backdoor. I personally wouldn't doubt this.

Sarah Sharp also used to work for Intel.
Not gonna say that's supicious, but... Well. :cunningpepe:
 
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Jaimas said:
Sharp herself is a nutjob who recently decided she was nonbinary. About 2 years ago she had a sad and attacked Linus and the Linux community repeatedly because Linus is a big meanie-head and refuses to reign in the community's ability to call shit coders shit:
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Oh yeah, I remember this.
Jaimas said:
The Linux community called this behavior out for what it was.
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I like what lightchasing said:
"I need communication that is technically brutal but personally respectful."

Regardless of anything else, I think this would be ideal in a lot of communities, and I know I'm going to bring it up in our stand up meeting at work. Even in a professional environment, people get in personal dick-waving contests instead of communicating issues with tech like actual adults.

Hell, two people in my work IRC are threatening to fight each other right now. T_T
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It's possible to tell someone their code is shitty without screeching at them. If someone can't critique code without cursing at the person, they should develop some people skills. You don't increase code quality by screeching at people. You merely reduce development speed.

And if that doesn't work, if you're really that pissed about it, then you should write it yourself as spite code. (I did that when I was dealing with shitty pakistani consultants who were telling me that my API didn't give them the information they needed. I wrote a spite implementation to show them it was possible. But not in the language they were using. I'm not going to do their job for them, just merely show them it is feasible.)

Furthermore, it's also a good idea to work with people close to your own level of competence. I don't work with wet-behind-the-ears guys who went to a 6 week code academy. I just couldn't take it. With my current coworkers, although they're kinda dumbasses sometimes, I rarely have to even explain why their code is shitty. By just pointing at a given block of code, they generally get suspicious about what's wrong with it and figure it out on their own.

The proper approach is to let people lower than you work with the most inexperienced people. A pyramid of competence.

If you insist on micromanaging the project, and putting yourself with the underlings, you can't freak out at them when they screw up. That was your decision.

That Linus screeches at people is a failure of his leadership. And it's not just incompetent dangerhairs that are getting scared off. Read about Con Kolivas' experience with kernel development. The dude made a very, very popular alternative scheduler that increased performance for ordinary desktop users. Ordinary users are scared shitless of reporting issues to the official mailing list because they'll get screeched at. This is a real problem.

(It's also a critique of how corporatized Linux really is. Heh, the ordinary desktop users like myself started seeing better performance when Google created Android, because now Linux has to pay attention to your non-server users. If you want attention, pick a lord. E-feudalism!)
Jaimas said:
Sharp was a member of the Ada Initiative, who was apparently, if rumor is to be believed, trying to honeytrap Linus for years.
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Yeah, like I said, esr is being a paranoid loony with that.
 
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Someone who plays a lawyer on the internet is suggesting some lawyerspeak saying that with the CoC, you can now rescind the copyright permissions for your code due to GPLv2 lack of "no-rescission clause".

https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/17/1174# (https://web.archive.org/web/20180921033008/https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/17/1174)
https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/18/3 (https://archive.fo/AZ5bI)
https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/19/684 (https://archive.fo/B2Kcp)
https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/19/788 (https://archive.fo/PT4pM)
https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/20/520 (https://archive.fo/QWJqt)
https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/19/708 (https://archive.fo/4N3DQ)
https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/20/184 (https://archive.fo/5QIEx)

Rescission of GPL for reasons other than violating the terms of the
license would be a ridiculous form copyright trolling which, if still
possible, should definitely be outlawed.
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 12:15 PM Martin Schroeder
<mkschreder.uk@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> If the license clearly states that permission is granted to any third
> party to use the code provided that the same rights are granted to
> everyone else who uses the subsequently distributed versions, wouldn't
> the original holder who is willing to rescind the license fully also
> be liable to compensate everyone involved for damages caused by such a
> rescission?
>
> It would only sound reasonable to me. You can not first grant
> something and then revoke that grant and expect that it can be done
> without consequences. If that becomes possible then there is no point
> in giving the grant in the first place. It would sound reasonable that
> there should be plenty of room for a counter lawsuit that would focus
> on how much damage a complete revocation would cause to everyone who
> have originally accepted the grant and then went with it. It is
> crucial I think that rescission of a grant (not just any license) be
> made close to impossible to accomplish after the grant has been made
> in the first place and the work has been made public.
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 7:22 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2018-09-19 03:38, Richard Stallman wrote:
> > >> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> > >> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> > >> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> > >>
> > >> > One is rescission of the license they granted regarding their code,
> > >> and
> > >> > then a lawsuit under copyright if/when the rescission is ignored.
> > >> > The others are breach of contract, libel, false light, etc.
> > >>
> > >> If "rescission" is really a possibility, it would cause greast trouble
> > >> for the free software community. We would need to take steps to make
> > >> sure it cannot happen.
> > >>
> > >> However, that goes against everything I have been told by others.
> >
> > This is where copyright differs from IP. With copyright, you have the
> > right to derived works if they don't violate Fair Use -- but that
> > could essentially be violating the GPL.
> >
> > The only way to protect the code and spirit of the GPL at that point,
> > is to accept the legal concept of Intellectual Property.
> >
> > The question then, is, is source code released under the GPL
> > considered "published work"?
> >
> > Mark Janssen, JD

@AnOminous is this a meme?
 
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Dreamland said:
Verge/Ars/Polygon/Motherboard
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Those publications are barely more advanced than analog news. I'm a digital only boy, fuck em :smug:
software said:
Not sure if this Pull request has come up yet in this thread, I only read the last five pages or so, but it's pretty juicy:

https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/pull/3507
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Aw man, I hoped this would only happen to other languages, lmao

Still though, the community is overwhelmingly against this, so that's nice to see
upload_2018-9-20_22-4-8.png


upload_2018-9-20_22-5-7.png
 
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CrunkLord420 said:
@AnOminous is this a meme?
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It's Greer level nonsense. You can't rescind a contract (which is voiding it as if it never existed) without a clause permitting it, not the other way around. Otherwise, in the case of fraud, misrepresentation, or other inequity, one could file a lawsuit to rescind a contract.

This doesn't mean there's no way out of a contract, but the GPL isn't a contract as such. It's a license to the general public with conditions attached. Having granted these rights in writing, as copyright requires, and having induced all kinds of third parties to rely on that license, it would create absolute chaos to revoke all those licenses because some completely different person did something the person who granted the license doesn't like.

It might be possible to sue the men who are thrusting their unwanted CoCs into everyone's business and deny them the right to use the GPL material in question if they're violating the conditions of the license by doing so. However, the GPL is sort of meant to stop that kind of thing, as are other things of that ilk like the Creative Commons licenses.
 
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ConcernedAnon said:
View attachment 545584
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Intuitionists were the first people since classical logic to not believe in the binary truth values. Intuitionism also makes everything in math harder and only logicians care about it. Fuck it.

Also, for those who don't know, Ts'o is the primary architect of ext2, ext3, ext4 filesystems. I like to believe ext4 is superior to NTFS in every way but honestly in my day-to-day work there's little difference (though Linux can open Windows NTFS, and not the other way around). Ts'o created /dev/random and also had the foresight to not use RDRAND alone.

Sarah Sharp has a USB 3.0 driver to her name. That's it.
 
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