Game of Thrones Thread

[Emperor Julian]

To be fair Tv Renly is probably a way better candidate than TV Stannis. Renly's response to the king in the north was to immediatly generate a political compromise in comparison to Stannis who wouldnt even consider a ceasefire or alliance with Rob or Renly and then used black magic to remove all real military threats to joffrey (debatable with rob obviously). This is obviously before the Show shit it's pants so realpolitik and the practical realities of warfare still applied.
The fuedal precedence is a problem but Stannis' rule is probably going to implode the moment it becomes clear he worships a weird foreign god who burns the faithful alive. How long before Tywin proclaims himself king of the Rock? or someone else for that matter since the thrones legitimacy is the hands of a pagan usurper whose burning people in kingslanding.
If one thing can be said of the earlier seasons it was the well written subtext that the centre was going to collapse when Roberts died and Ned was sticking his thumb in the dam.

 

[RadicalCentrist]

I guess I also feel a bit bad for Roose for how his son turned out. "You make me rue the day I raped your mother".

All the "politically savvy" characters make the same mistake of fucking up with their children and heirs. Tywin openly shits on Tyrion despite him legally being the successor, Walder has so many damn children they have private feuds and romances with everyone operating under the assumption that once he dies the Twins becomes a fratricide free for all, Roose turbo-goofs with Ramsay, Doran never told whats-her-face that he wasn't intent on dis-inheriting her, etc.

Actually now that I've vomited this autism I am not so sure of it. How many characters DIDN'T fuck up their children's lives other than the TRUE and HONEST Starks?

The fuedal precedence is a problem but Stannis' rule is probably going to implode the moment it becomes clear he worships a weird foreign god who burns the faithful alive.

That wasn't common knowledge when Renly declared his little temper tantrum. Also, Stannis worshiped a weird foreign god because said god actually provides tangible benefits. Westeroses (I have no idea the correct possessive plural) chump Septs looked the other way when dragon princes were practicing polygamous incest.

Honestly I always felt how religion to be handled in AsoIaF to be one its biggest flaws. Despite half the Starks being PoV's, I don't think who the fuck the "Old Gods" are or what they mean are ever brought up. Septs and the Seven are mostly treated as flavor text. The only exception being R'Hllor and the Drowned God, but both provide tangible benefits i.e magic/CPR. I realize GRRM is an atheist but religion played a far bigger role in the thoughts of man than this.

Finally, who can agree that the finale would have been bearable if Sam died in a cake related accident?

 

[Emperor Julian]

That wasn't common knowledge when Renly declared his little temper tantrum. Also, Stannis worshiped a weird foreign god because said god actually provides tangible benefits. Westeroses (I have no idea the correct possessive plural) chump Septs looked the other way when dragon princes were practicing polygamous incest.

Honestly I always felt how religion to be handled in AsoIaF to be one its biggest flaws. Despite half the Starks being PoV's, I don't think who the fuck the "Old Gods" are or what they mean are ever brought up. Septs and the Seven are mostly treated as flavor text. The only exception being R'Hllor and the Drowned God, but both provide tangible benefits i.e magic/CPR. I realize GRRM is an atheist but religion played a far bigger role in the thoughts of man than this.

Finally, who can agree that the finale would have been bearable if Sam died in a cake related accident?

Historically The Sister fuckers did convert and the incest issue was a on and off issue for decades, in the first few centuries the only thing which kept them on the throne was their's no effective counter to Dragons after Targ number 2 made it clear when he had the mega dragon burn the Templar orders to death. Stannis just has a unreliable witch who sucks with people and is a terrible diplomat himself.

I agree with you george really struggled with religion, even if a religion doesnt provide magic powers it's followers take it very seriously. The quasi pagan faith of the Old gods are particulary bad for it when you consider it exists specifically in contrast to the psuado-catholic Seven, I think george just wanted a sort of Celtic nature religion but didnt put much thought into it while a decentralized religion is viable their needs to be some structure, it's okay that they're not as zealous as medieval europe but it really should be more of a political and social issue than it comes across. George does do a far better job of it than D&D though who can't even really conceal there disinterest in the whole thing, I can't remember how it goes in the book but the fact the Rob stark was married by a faith of the sevon priest is a pretty weird thing to do during a nationalist themed revolt.

 

[CWCissey]

Finally, who can agree that the finale would have been bearable if Sam died in a cake related accident?

Is that a euphemism for 'crushed to death by Gilly during rumpy pumpy'?

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Ned not telling Jon about his parentage before Jon went up to the Wall was some of the worst parenting in the series. Oh, your boy's about to join an order in which desertion is punished by death? Better not tell him this super important thing which might change how he views his life and compel him to take a different path.

George does do a far better job of it than D&D though who can't even really conceal there disinterest in the whole thing, I can't remember how it goes in the book but the fact the Rob stark was married by a faith of the sevon priest is a pretty weird thing to do during a nationalist themed revolt.

You could probably handwave it citing Catelyn's influence and Robb's need to appease the Riverlords.

 

[Mola Ram]

Better not tell him this super important thing which might change how he views his life and compel him to take a different path.

Wasn't that kind of the point of it though? He didn't want Jon to know until he was under the relative safety of having taken the black.

 

[not william stenchever]

Not that they can't lose of course. With the fat man's love of using other historical battles, the forces being sent to deal with the Golden Company are probably going to get Agincourt'd or Golden Spurs'd.

With the reach having the largest unbloodied army and a metric fuckton of knights I'd say it's a safe bet to say GRRM wants Aegon to really fuck them up like the French knights got fucked in those battles. Isn't there a unit of very good longbowmen in fAegon's army? If that's right then I can only assume it's foreshadowing.

 

[Absolutego]

Wasn't that kind of the point of it though? He didn't want Jon to know until he was under the relative safety of having taken the black.

Ned didn't think that far ahead, I imagine his plan was to have Jon never know and live his life as a Stark bastard. Sending him off to the Night's Watch wasn't even Ned's idea, in the books at least. He only approved of it as a last resort because Catelyn was throwing a bitch fit at the prospect of Ned leaving Jon behind at Winterfell when he traveled south, and Maester Luwin brought up that Jon had talked to him about it in the past. The whole "when we next meet, we'll talk about your mother" bit always struck me as Ned putting off the discussion, instead of seriously planning on telling Jon he was a secret Targaryen.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

All the "politically savvy" characters make the same mistake of fucking up with their children and heirs. Tywin openly shits on Tyrion despite him legally being the successor, Walder has so many damn children they have private feuds and romances with everyone operating under the assumption that once he dies the Twins becomes a fratricide free for all, Roose turbo-goofs with Ramsay, Doran never told whats-her-face that he wasn't intent on dis-inheriting her, etc.

To be fair, Domeric Bolton was apparently actually a pretty cool guy and the one that Roose actually raised. Just y'know, he went to go meet Ramsay after Roose explicitly told him not to and mysteriously died shortly thereafter.

Honestly I always felt how religion to be handled in AsoIaF to be one its biggest flaws. Despite half the Starks being PoV's, I don't think who the fuck the "Old Gods" are or what they mean are ever brought up. Septs and the Seven are mostly treated as flavor text. The only exception being R'Hllor and the Drowned God, but both provide tangible benefits i.e magic/CPR. I realize GRRM is an atheist but religion played a far bigger role in the thoughts of man than this.

The Old Gods are dead Greenseers of the Children of the Forest that have uploaded into their weirdo tree servers. Not that the First Men really understand that. But yeah, agreed.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

i begin playing the first season of game of thrones in about 2 hours on lolcow.tv so if you wanna be there, be there

 

[DeadwastePrime]

i begin playing the first season of game of thrones in about 2 hours on lolcow.tv so if you wanna be there, be there

http://lolcow.tv/r/Autism im starting now i guess

 

[NN 401]

Historically The Sister fuckers did convert and the incest issue was a on and off issue for decades, in the first few centuries the only thing which kept them on the throne was their's no effective counter to Dragons after Targ number 2 made it clear when he had the mega dragon burn the Templar orders to death. Stannis just has a unreliable witch who sucks with people and is a terrible diplomat himself.

I agree with you george really struggled with religion, even if a religion doesnt provide magic powers it's followers take it very seriously. The quasi pagan faith of the Old gods are particulary bad for it when you consider it exists specifically in contrast to the psuado-catholic Seven, I think george just wanted a sort of Celtic nature religion but didnt put much thought into it while a decentralized religion is viable their needs to be some structure, it's okay that they're not as zealous as medieval europe but it really should be more of a political and social issue than it comes across. George does do a far better job of it than D&D though who can't even really conceal there disinterest in the whole thing, I can't remember how it goes in the book but the fact the Rob stark was married by a faith of the sevon priest is a pretty weird thing to do during a nationalist themed revolt.

The absolute lack of a Church with temporal powers is a huge hole in the whole “historical fantasy thing”

Frankly, Martin’s quasi bastardized English history books are transparent enough in what it cribs that it I can’t unsee it.


I mean we are missing almost the entirety of their equivalent of mainland Europe and Rome.

Never mind Martin’s ancient Sumer Far East analogue that is... absolutely not contemporaneous with what the Far East and The Middle East would have been at the time... So I’m not sure what he’s referencing here..



I have also never bought the whole Stark children flung to the 4 winds scenario.

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t noble born children usually remanded into the custody of their nearest relatives? Obviously for a ransom but still.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

The absolute lack of a Church with temporal powers is a huge hole in the whole “historical fantasy thing”

Frankly, Martin’s quasi bastardized English history books are transparent enough in what it cribs that it I can’t unsee it.


I mean we are missing almost the entirety of their equivalent of mainland Europe and Rome.

Never mind Martin’s ancient Sumer Far East analogue that is... absolutely not contemporaneous with what the Far East and The Middle East would have been at the time... So I’m not sure what he’s referencing here..



I have also never bought the whole Stark children flung to the 4 winds scenario.

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t noble born children usually remanded into the custody of their nearest relatives? Obviously for a ransom but still.

I think you nailed it-I see English history all over the place. I got a William The Conqueror/Norman invasion vibe from the end of Ep 10 S6.

The Norman conquest in a fantasy setting has potential in the hands of a good writer. I'm guessing Martin is going to use fAegon in this role which makes his absence from the HBO series all the more glaring since what we got instead were a bunch of irrelevant ice zombies, awful dialogue, boatsex and a zombie polar bear.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Some of these criticisms are very valid but if you're criticizing the books based on shit you saw on the show you're just going to look stupid. Especially the show after season 4.

 

[Polyboros2]

Wasn't that kind of the point of it though? He didn't want Jon to know until he was under the relative safety of having taken the black.

I don't consider the show ending to be cannon, but I can almost see Jon letting Sansa know being a giant mistake having merit. I suspect the writers got there by coincidence, and probably unaware of the significance. Ned made a lot of mistakes, but he was smart enough to not tell any Holes about the secret heir.

 

[verissimus]

Ned not telling Jon about his parentage before Jon went up to the Wall was some of the worst parenting in the series. Oh, your boy's about to join an order in which desertion is punished by death? Better not tell him this super important thing which might change how he views his life and compel him to take a different path.

...what? Why the hell would Jon agree then to go to the wall if Ned told him the truth? And even then, do you honestly think Jon would have believed him?

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

I don't consider the show ending to be cannon, but I can almost see Jon letting Sansa know being a giant mistake having merit. I suspect the writers got there by coincidence, and probably unaware of the significance. Ned made a lot of mistakes, but he was smart enough to not tell any Holes about the secret heir.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Jon never learns the truth in the books, it's just there for attentive readers.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Jon never learns the truth in the books, it's just there for attentive readers.

Its more important in the books because there's a fake Aegon running around. Imagine how awesome it will be when fAegon, John Connington and Dorne all learn that they're being played for fools by Blackfyre loyalists.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Its more important in the books because there's a fake Aegon running around. Imagine how awesome it will be when fAegon, John Connington and Dorne all learn that they're being played for fools by Blackfyre loyalists.

Aegon's claim is better than Dany's especially if he's a Blackfyre. Daemon did nothing wrong. Seriously I doubt Dorne will care at this point, he's there, he's got an army, he's (probably) married a Princess of Dorne. And Dany as good as killed the current Prince's son.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

And Dany as good as killed the current Prince's son.

Are you referring to Quentyn, the boy that snuck into the pyramid to steal a dragon but got toasted instead?

Anyway, getting back to Dany, fAegon, Jon/Aegon and batshit Cersei/Tommen, a season dedicated to the armies of all of these competing factions would have made a better ending and I hope this is where Martin is going in his books.