- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
(Sorry for the long-ass post.)
I get where @Secret Asshole is coming from because anime has such a rocky impression in the States, and that's sadly never going to get fixed. Localization and having to translate untranslatable Japanese phrases and jokes is inevitable anyway you slice it, so that's my biggest disagreement and why I will never fully get behind the "subs only, fuck dubs" rallying cry, although putting in the effort to do the research and at least try to get information across in citations or whatnot would help (ADV Films would do this in some of their booklets, I noticed). The censorship is always bullshit even though if it has to air on television, they have to adhere to FCC standards (no matter how bullshit), although you'd think they'd make everything uncensored for home video release. Outside of children's shows from Saban and 4KIDS' dubs not including the original Japanese track because they just don't have the original masters for whatever reason or can't (although the DVDs are also just so fucking lazily put together, like what the fuck), they're at least included on home video releases and streaming services like Netflix for those who want it. It's baby steps, but it's not fast enough, or they've hit a brick wall years ago and never found a way around it.
But I wanted to add a bit of context to the "Almost no one knew who Vic was" statements that crop up here and there, most recently with one of @Secret Asshole's more recent posts. Yes, it's true that only the autistic of autists would've known of them because the only people who knew of Vic were dub fans (typically FMA and Ouran Host, with some DBZ, Hetalia (I just learned this myself, he's Greece), and D.N.Angel fans here and there), and/or those interested in going into voice-over work. If you're also good at picking up voices and you're proud of that, you become interested in learning more about those whose voice you keep coming across in multiple titles. You might even think it'd be cool to meet them in person because you're interested, if not an out-right fan.
Trying to avoid powerleveling, but I find voice-acting to be quite interesting and for a few years considered trying it out. I've grown up watching a lot of cartoons and anime that I thought it'd be cool to go into animation in some form or another--so I took animation classes and some film classes. But on top of paying closer attention to animation, as a result, I also began paying more attention to voices, and I made a list of my favorite voices across the field, and on both sides of the Pacific. I think there's a lot of talent when it comes to just acting with your voice and bringing a character to life. But it's a niche topic, and for many years, you were mocked for liking cartoons. Animators have had it rough, and voice-acting is considered low-tier by a lot of actors.
Anime dubbing has shit pay, we all know this and it sucks, but unfortunately what exactly can you do about it? The unions don't seem to care about it, either. It's why you don't hear of voice-actors taking it up as a full-time job, it's mostly part-time--if it is full-time, then they have to rely on conventions or hope they can climb the ladder like over in Japanese animation studios where grunt work are like the in-between frames and clean-up animation, and you get better pay/recognition when you become a key animator or director of sorts. And that could be why it is so many of them don't like voice-over work because it doesn't make good pay, and the market is niche enough that you're not going to be on millions of television sets across the country or globe. "I want to be famous!" appears to be the biggest prideful mantra of an actor, or a wannabe actor.
Learning con stories about these actors and what they're like behind the scenes sucks because that breaks the magical illusion of animation. Doug TenNapel saying that at least the LA voice-actors (like those from Animaniacs) are close-knit and a lot of them do like or appreciate their fans/admirers is hopeful, but then hearing about a lot of anime dub actors being real pieces of shit is disheartening just because the work gets the short end of the stick by no fault of their own. It's why I fear the day when/if unflattering stories of those like Richard Epcar, Mona Marshall, Joshua Seth, Ted Lewis, Barbara Goodson and more whose voices I grew up with (albeit in selective roles until adulthood/the Internet) come to my attention, because they had passion I could hear in their voices in many of their roles, passion that I think of when I think of voice-acting.
The fact that Vic's peers hated working with him because he took his job seriously and wanted the best take he could get is without a doubt one of the most bullshit, petty reasons to drag his name in the mud for. Sabat's apparently super proud of his voice (or at least just likes hearing himself) given that he casts himself in all sorts of big roles. What excuses does he and everyone else have for not at least putting in that effort to better themselves in the booth if they wanted to have the same quality as Vic? Why did they hate the fact that Vic kindly and respectfully treated fans who were coming up to his table to get a poster signed? Why do they hold such contempt toward their admirers who open up their hearts to tell them personal stories? They're terrible people, yes, but were they always terrible, or did it build up over time?
To borrow from Shrek, "Ogres are like onions. They have layers." And well, ogres can be either good or bad ogres, but what're the layers that make them so sympathetic or so reprehensible? This is a question that I doubt we'll ever get the answers to, but this could've been avoided had they done some soul-searching.
I get where @Secret Asshole is coming from because anime has such a rocky impression in the States, and that's sadly never going to get fixed. Localization and having to translate untranslatable Japanese phrases and jokes is inevitable anyway you slice it, so that's my biggest disagreement and why I will never fully get behind the "subs only, fuck dubs" rallying cry, although putting in the effort to do the research and at least try to get information across in citations or whatnot would help (ADV Films would do this in some of their booklets, I noticed). The censorship is always bullshit even though if it has to air on television, they have to adhere to FCC standards (no matter how bullshit), although you'd think they'd make everything uncensored for home video release. Outside of children's shows from Saban and 4KIDS' dubs not including the original Japanese track because they just don't have the original masters for whatever reason or can't (although the DVDs are also just so fucking lazily put together, like what the fuck), they're at least included on home video releases and streaming services like Netflix for those who want it. It's baby steps, but it's not fast enough, or they've hit a brick wall years ago and never found a way around it.
But I wanted to add a bit of context to the "Almost no one knew who Vic was" statements that crop up here and there, most recently with one of @Secret Asshole's more recent posts. Yes, it's true that only the autistic of autists would've known of them because the only people who knew of Vic were dub fans (typically FMA and Ouran Host, with some DBZ, Hetalia (I just learned this myself, he's Greece), and D.N.Angel fans here and there), and/or those interested in going into voice-over work. If you're also good at picking up voices and you're proud of that, you become interested in learning more about those whose voice you keep coming across in multiple titles. You might even think it'd be cool to meet them in person because you're interested, if not an out-right fan.
Trying to avoid powerleveling, but I find voice-acting to be quite interesting and for a few years considered trying it out. I've grown up watching a lot of cartoons and anime that I thought it'd be cool to go into animation in some form or another--so I took animation classes and some film classes. But on top of paying closer attention to animation, as a result, I also began paying more attention to voices, and I made a list of my favorite voices across the field, and on both sides of the Pacific. I think there's a lot of talent when it comes to just acting with your voice and bringing a character to life. But it's a niche topic, and for many years, you were mocked for liking cartoons. Animators have had it rough, and voice-acting is considered low-tier by a lot of actors.
Anime dubbing has shit pay, we all know this and it sucks, but unfortunately what exactly can you do about it? The unions don't seem to care about it, either. It's why you don't hear of voice-actors taking it up as a full-time job, it's mostly part-time--if it is full-time, then they have to rely on conventions or hope they can climb the ladder like over in Japanese animation studios where grunt work are like the in-between frames and clean-up animation, and you get better pay/recognition when you become a key animator or director of sorts. And that could be why it is so many of them don't like voice-over work because it doesn't make good pay, and the market is niche enough that you're not going to be on millions of television sets across the country or globe. "I want to be famous!" appears to be the biggest prideful mantra of an actor, or a wannabe actor.
Learning con stories about these actors and what they're like behind the scenes sucks because that breaks the magical illusion of animation. Doug TenNapel saying that at least the LA voice-actors (like those from Animaniacs) are close-knit and a lot of them do like or appreciate their fans/admirers is hopeful, but then hearing about a lot of anime dub actors being real pieces of shit is disheartening just because the work gets the short end of the stick by no fault of their own. It's why I fear the day when/if unflattering stories of those like Richard Epcar, Mona Marshall, Joshua Seth, Ted Lewis, Barbara Goodson and more whose voices I grew up with (albeit in selective roles until adulthood/the Internet) come to my attention, because they had passion I could hear in their voices in many of their roles, passion that I think of when I think of voice-acting.
The fact that Vic's peers hated working with him because he took his job seriously and wanted the best take he could get is without a doubt one of the most bullshit, petty reasons to drag his name in the mud for. Sabat's apparently super proud of his voice (or at least just likes hearing himself) given that he casts himself in all sorts of big roles. What excuses does he and everyone else have for not at least putting in that effort to better themselves in the booth if they wanted to have the same quality as Vic? Why did they hate the fact that Vic kindly and respectfully treated fans who were coming up to his table to get a poster signed? Why do they hold such contempt toward their admirers who open up their hearts to tell them personal stories? They're terrible people, yes, but were they always terrible, or did it build up over time?
To borrow from Shrek, "Ogres are like onions. They have layers." And well, ogres can be either good or bad ogres, but what're the layers that make them so sympathetic or so reprehensible? This is a question that I doubt we'll ever get the answers to, but this could've been avoided had they done some soul-searching.
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