US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
8kun.jpg


Now..i wont claim to be a computer wizard but this seems highly suspicious to me (i saw some /pol/ posts about this, but the tread got nuked really fast) @Null
 
Pinging 8kun.net [47.254.122.135] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 47.254.122.135: bytes=32 time=200ms TTL=36
Reply from 47.254.122.135: bytes=32 time=200ms TTL=36

1571451545673.png

AliCloud is the cloud infrastructure of Alibaba, a Chinese equivalent of Amazon.
 
View attachment 976697

Now..i wont claim to be a computer wizard but this seems highly suspicious to me (i saw some /pol/ posts about this, but the tread got nuked really fast) @Null
Yeeeeeeeah I'm not too sure about this one. This image seems to be implying that 8kun traffic is being routed through the DOD.

I checked ARIN and that IP really does belong to the DoD. But I did my own traceroute and it didn't show up as part of it. Everything looked completely normal. Of course, routes vary depending on where you are, but I can't think of any reason one specific user would have the final hop go through DoD.

Not sure what's actually going on, but I'm calling bullshit on their explanation.

EDIT: Also probably worth mentioning, the traceroute he posted ISN'T RAW OUTPUT. It's not the actual, straight, unfiltered result of the command. Why not? Probably it's easier to alter the pasted text that's part of the image.
 
Last edited:
Yeeeeeeeah I'm not too sure about this one. This image seems to be implying that 8kun traffic is being routed through the DOD.

I checked ARIN and that IP really does belong to the DoD. But I did my own traceroute and it didn't show up as part of it. Everything looked completely normal. Of course, routes vary depending on where you are, but I can't think of any reason one specific user would have the final hop go through DoD.

Not sure what's actually going on, but I'm calling bullshit on their explanation.

EDIT: Also probably worth mentioning, the traceroute he posted ISN'T RAW OUTPUT. It's not the actual, straight, unfiltered result of the command. Why not? Probably it's easier to alter the pasted text that's part of the image.

You don't want to include the first part of a traceroute because that might identify you. Still, without more than one source I'm going to have to call probable bullshit on this. I didn't see it there either.

Now, they could have tweaked it to remove themselves, but why would they even do it in a way that showed up on a traceroute in the first place? They'd leave the route untouched, but just tap something along the way invisibly.
 
You don't want to include the first part of a traceroute because that might identify you. Still, without more than one source I'm going to have to call probable bullshit on this. I didn't see it there either.

Now, they could have tweaked it to remove themselves, but why would they even do it in a way that showed up on a traceroute in the first place? They'd leave the route untouched, but just tap something along the way invisibly.
Fair enough, that could be the reason they didn't post raw output. Seems obvious now that you say it.

But yeah. There are SO many better, easier, cleaner way to siphon traffic without messing with routes like that. And EVEN IF they did for some reason, it wouldn't be that obvious. There's no way the US government doesn't have some sort of innocuous looking IP block for stuff like this. Plus the whole end of the route just looks wrong... I'm not a specialist in WAN routing, but it looks like the DOD IP is in Ohio and the 8kun IP is in California. I would expect at least ONE hop between there, yeah?

TL;DR: Guy claims the DOD is intercepting 8kun traffic, provided proof is almost certainly bullshit.
 
EDIT: Also probably worth mentioning, the traceroute he posted ISN'T RAW OUTPUT. It's not the actual, straight, unfiltered result of the command. Why not? Probably it's easier to alter the pasted text that's part of the image.
it's a screen picture from this website https://network-tools.com/trace/

alibaba is only assign dod range for internal routing purpose. router believes it is "11.x.x.x" so when ttl hit 0 it respond with src as 11.x.x.x. to use public route for private purpose is considered poor practice but it happens often. as example, sprint cell network also uses dod ranges for internal routing and CGNAT. you can traceroute any ip in 47.254.120.0 - 47.254.255.255 range and see dod addresses in output.

if US want to intercept, they would not use their own ranges, and this would not benefit much because traffic still opaque unless they have key for SSL (don't trust cloudflare for this reason).

i'm sure will spook the 8chan crowd nonetheless
 
Fredrick thinks 4gag didn't have any shooters
123 copy.jpg

https://web.archive.org/web/2019101...r.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/1185383579708096512
There has already been shooters associated with 4chan, three times. A total of 20 people died and 26 people injured.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpqua_Community_College_shooting#Perpetrator
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43881931
https://www.wired.com/2013/04/4chan-mall-shooter/
This makes me wonder, why did 8gag even get fucked over in the first place.
8chan had 3 shooters, the same as 4chan however 4chan hasn't gotten shut down yet.
 
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This makes me wonder, why did 8gag even get fucked over in the first place.
8chan had 3 shooters, the same as 4chan however 4chan hasn't gotten shut down yet.
You make a very luminous point! :^)

And looks like Alibaba's out now:
8kunalibaba.png
(https://archive.li/B1iD3)

And Fredrick, presumably drunk off of this 'victory', brags about getting into a pissy Twitter fight with a QAnon sped.
q1.jpg q2.jpg
(https://archive.li/Le0tz)

Does Fredrick fear the Q? Because he said this in that recent VICE article:
Brennan is clear about why he never wants 8chan and 8kun to come back online: QAnon.

“One of the reasons I am trying to get this done, preemptively, is so that QAnon cannot come back,” Brennan told VICE News from his home in the Philippines. “It is critical that 8kun does not come back at all, in any form, for any length of time.”
...
“I don't want there to be any more Q drops. I think the whole Q thing is awful and should stop,” Brennan said.
(https://archive.li/3iBvH)
 
You make a very luminous point! :^)

Shit is glowing in the dark.

8 ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.151) 332.872 ms
ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.155) 257.669 ms 241.090 ms
9 chinamobile-ic-341982-ldn-b7.c.telia.net (62.115.171.29) 235.359 ms 240.195 ms 237.687 ms
10 116.251.82.109 (116.251.82.109) 240.677 ms 262.449 ms 251.426 ms
11 11.52.231.34 (11.52.231.34) 282.039 ms
11.52.231.42 (11.52.231.42) 231.146 ms 282.537 ms
12 11.52.132.81 (11.52.132.81) 240.230 ms
11.52.136.17 (11.52.136.17) 290.743 ms 259.022 ms
13 8.208.15.93 (8.208.15.93) 257.922 ms 288.230 ms 300.222 ms

IP: 11.52.136.17
Decimal: 187992081
Hostname: 11.52.136.17
ISP: DoD Network Information Center
Organization: DoD Network Information Center

Dafuq?

And the terminal IP is alibaba. Is this some Chinese voodoo?
 
Shit is glowing in the dark.

8 ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.151) 332.872 ms
ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.155) 257.669 ms 241.090 ms
9 chinamobile-ic-341982-ldn-b7.c.telia.net (62.115.171.29) 235.359 ms 240.195 ms 237.687 ms
10 116.251.82.109 (116.251.82.109) 240.677 ms 262.449 ms 251.426 ms
11 11.52.231.34 (11.52.231.34) 282.039 ms
11.52.231.42 (11.52.231.42) 231.146 ms 282.537 ms
12 11.52.132.81 (11.52.132.81) 240.230 ms
11.52.136.17 (11.52.136.17) 290.743 ms 259.022 ms
13 8.208.15.93 (8.208.15.93) 257.922 ms 288.230 ms 300.222 ms

IP: 11.52.136.17
Decimal: 187992081
Hostname: 11.52.136.17
ISP: DoD Network Information Center
Organization: DoD Network Information Center

Dafuq?

And the terminal IP is alibaba. Is this some Chinese voodoo?
Wait, do we not expect it to be Alibaba? They're still trying to boot 8kun off of their cloud servers literally as I type this:
8kunalibaba2.png

(https://archive.li/NqHhD)

Also, I'm not seeing the routing to the DoD that you are in my own traceroute. Not sure what that means, but...
traceroute.png

🤔
 
Wait, do we not expect it to be Alibaba? They're still trying to boot 8kun off of their cloud servers literally as I type this:
View attachment 977935
(https://archive.li/NqHhD)

Also, I'm not seeing the routing to the DoD that you are in my own traceroute. Not sure what that means, but...
View attachment 977938
🤔

This is what I'm getting now.

8 ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.155) 299.099 ms
ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.151) 278.479 ms
ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.155) 283.497 ms
9 chinamobile-ic-341982-ldn-b7.c.telia.net (62.115.171.29) 326.287 ms 240.788 ms 291.262 ms
10 116.251.82.109 (116.251.82.109) 285.467 ms 223.912 ms 248.522 ms
11 11.52.231.50 (11.52.231.50) 302.170 ms 325.805 ms 255.210 ms
12 11.52.136.9 (11.52.136.9) 236.107 ms
11.52.132.73 (11.52.132.73) 268.494 ms 250.315 ms
13 8.208.15.93 (8.208.15.93) 241.039 ms 284.848 ms 277.312 ms

Note the two DoD IPs in between 116.251.82.109 (Zhejiang Taobao Network Co.,Ltd) and the final destination at alibaba.
 
This is what I'm getting now.

8 ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.155) 299.099 ms
ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.151) 278.479 ms
ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.155) 283.497 ms
9 chinamobile-ic-341982-ldn-b7.c.telia.net (62.115.171.29) 326.287 ms 240.788 ms 291.262 ms
10 116.251.82.109 (116.251.82.109) 285.467 ms 223.912 ms 248.522 ms
11 11.52.231.50 (11.52.231.50) 302.170 ms 325.805 ms 255.210 ms
12 11.52.136.9 (11.52.136.9) 236.107 ms
11.52.132.73 (11.52.132.73) 268.494 ms 250.315 ms
13 8.208.15.93 (8.208.15.93) 241.039 ms 284.848 ms 277.312 ms

Note the two DoD IPs in between 116.251.82.109 (Zhejiang Taobao Network Co.,Ltd) and the final destination at alibaba.
Yeah I see it, and it matches with what @Chickenbacon posted yesterday up-thread. But I'm still not seeing any IPs appearing between 116.251.82.109 and 8.208.15.93 on my end:
tracerouteagain.png

Of course, I might be missing something.
 
Yeah I see it, and it matches with what @Chickenbacon posted yesterday up-thread. But I'm still not seeing any IPs appearing between 116.251.82.109 and 8.208.15.93 on my end:

I was considering that bullshit because I certainly didn't see it yesterday, but it was there the last couple times I checked. There's no reason for that IP to be between two Chinese IPs in China, at least no non-suspicious reason.
 
I was considering that bullshit because I certainly didn't see it yesterday, but it was there the last couple times I checked. There's no reason for that IP to be between two Chinese IPs in China, at least no non-suspicious reason.
Oh for sure, this is suspicious as fuck. There's definitely some luminescent tomfoolery going on at any rate. Wonder why I can't see it in my traceroutes though?
 
A whole gov op destroyed by one butthurt cripple.

EDIT: I'm predicting they are going to go fully live on Oct 22, 8chan's birthday.
Not if the dwarf has anything to say about it!
hesoproudofhimself.png

(https://archive.li/ks1yw)
 
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