US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

  • 🔧 At about Midnight EST I am going to completely fuck up the site trying to fix something.

Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
He's stating the media 'stalking site' and 'dox site' mantra that is always done. However, he knows this is bullshit and being a disingenuous little faggot. Kiwifarms is a glorified internet gossip site with publicly available information that is provided by most users themselves or public records searches. And believe me, there have been a lot of wrong doxes more than there have been correct ones. I know this site attracts fucktarded individuals who don't understand we just want to shitpost and laugh at people in peace. 'Adjacent sites'. Hey, you dumb fucking nigger, anyone can do a public records search. Anyone can find this through Google and Twitter.

Now, whether he's taking this position because he wants to deplatform us or because he wants to look good for his new 'friends' is anyone's guess. Him constantly deplatforming 8chan is the only thing keeping him in the news and giving him attention. He has 0 connection to the farms and if he thinks people will give a singular fuck about him after the 8chan hype is gone, he is fucking mistaken.

I think the odds are pretty decent that he'll try something on the Farms just because he has a history with Null from Infinity Next. If we get in the news again on the same level as with Christchurch he'll almost certainly start tossing stones our way to try and recapture the attention he got from calling for 8chan's termination. He won't have the clout to do anything to us since we're fairly well entrenched at this point but he'll try his damnedest.
 
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I think the odds are pretty decent that he'll try something on the Farms just because he has a history with Null from Infinity Next. If we get in the news again on the same level as with Christchurch he'll almost certainly start tossing stones our way to try and recapture the attention he got from calling for 8chan's termination. He won't have the clout to do anything to us since we're fairly well entrenched at this point but he'll try his damnedest.
What ddos providers does Kiwifarms use anyway?
 
I think the odds are pretty decent that he'll try something on the Farms just because he has a history with Null from Infinity Next. If we get in the news again on the same level as with Christchurch he'll almost certainly start tossing stones our way to try and recapture the attention he got from calling for 8chan's termination. He won't have the clout to do anything to us since we're fairly well entrenched at this point but he'll try his damnedest.
He's enough of a spiteful faggot that I can see him trying to do something with KF. At some point, I believe this is going to bite him in the ass, someone will fire back at him and his goblin looking ass.
 
I'd love to write a book about it all if I could convince any of the principals (Null, Hotwheels, Jim, the guy who runs Gab, etc.) to talk to me at length about how they do it (from either end -- taking down services or keeping them up despite endless machinations to stop them). Of course, revealing any of that would mean the other side could just use that knowledge to hit even harder, so fat chance of those conversations happening. A book about it in general terms (without enough detail to act on) might be interesting, but I imagine it'd be a tough sell to a publisher even without specific details.
Fredrick has been completely open about how he's doing all of this. (He has to telegraph everything he does, of course: what's the use of all this virtue signaling if nobody can see it?)

For example, here's how he took down Alibaba:
fredrick1.png

(https://archive.li/u8jOP)

And the pastebin:
Code:
To: anti-spam@list.alibaba-inc.com
To: qcloud_net_duty@tencent.com

尊敬的先生/女士,

2019年,有人把三条恐怖份子宣言上传至8chan。新西兰克赖斯特彻奇、加利福尼亚州波威和德克萨斯州埃尔帕索的恐怖分子使用8chan上传他们的宣言。有超过70人在这三起袭击中丧生。

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/

结果,美国很多主要网络将8chan移除。8月Tucows、CloudFlare和Epik平台将8chan下线;10月,Zare(英国)平台也将其下线。

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/08/05/tucows-drops-8chan-domain-registration-after-el-paso-shooting/#294385f9ffbf
https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

从那时起,8chan的所有者吉姆·沃特金斯和他的儿子润·沃特金斯日益迫切的寻找托管方。

从下面的链接可以看到,8chan还组织了一个支持香港抗议者的板块,许多香港人在抗议中国政府的运动中使用了该板块。

http://archive.is/1MJDa

他们现在正试图把网站托管至您的网络。我希望您不会像其他人那样允许他们这样做或为他们提供途径。

他们的IP是161.117.41.174(阿里巴巴)和129.226.123.252(腾讯)。

此致
敬礼

Fred Brennan敬上

==

Dear Sir or Madam,

In 2019, three terrorist manifestos were uploaded to 8chan. The terrorists in Christchurch, New Zealand, Poway, California, and El Paso, Texas, used 8chan to upload their manifestos. Between all three attacks, over 70 people died.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/

As a result, 8chan was removed from many major American networks. It was deplatformed by Tucows, CloudFlare and Epik in August; and from Zare (UK) in October.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/08/05/tucows-drops-8chan-domain-registration-after-el-paso-shooting/#294385f9ffbf
https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

Since then, 8chan's owner, Jim Watkins, and his son, Ron Watkins, have become more and more desperate to find a host.

As can be seen at the link below, 8chan also hosted a board supportive of the Hong Kong protesters, and which many Hong Kong people used in their campaign against the Chinese government.

http://archive.is/1MJDa

They are now trying to use your network as their host. I hope that you will not allow them to, and will show them the door, as others have.

Their IP is 161.117.41.174 (Alibaba) and 129.226.123.252 (Tencent).

Best,
Fred Brennan



Is there a way to listen to that clip without having to download it?
I saw that you eventually did, but for the benefit of everyone else that might not want to sit through listening to Fredrick, here's a transcript.
Fredrick: Yeah Kiwi Farms is, well, to put it mildly, it's like a stalker site. I mean, I don't know how else to describe it. They have what they call 'exceptional individuals'—people of interest⁠—that they, you know, like to just keep tabs on what they're doing.

Host: Like Terry Davis?

Fredrick: Right. In theory there are rules that they're not supposed to message them; they say "Don't touch the crap" or whatever. Like, in theory you're not supposed to troll the people on the site. But, I mean, the site is full of dox of every single so-called 'Lolcow', and you know, there are other adjacent websites to Kiwi Farms that do use the information on Kiwi Farms to harass the users.

Host: Right—


Hey when was that interview done, by the way? Does anyone know? I ask because:
I think the odds are pretty decent that he'll try something on the Farms just because he has a history with Null from Infinity Next. If we get in the news again on the same level as with Christchurch he'll almost certainly start tossing stones our way to try and recapture the attention he got from calling for 8chan's termination. He won't have the clout to do anything to us since we're fairly well entrenched at this point but he'll try his damnedest.
I know Fredrick and Josh were going at each other over the Infinity Next thing roughly this time last year, but I thought they hashed that stuff out somewhat on the Killstream that they did together:
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he started coming after the Kiwi Farms. I'm with you guys in doubting how much of this 8chan crusade is just his hatred of Jim Watkins.

EDIT: An amusing snippet from that Killstream: Josh and Fredrick jovially discussing Jim Watkins' pig farm over in the Philippines, and how he might use it to get rid of his enemies.
 
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I just read that Vice link. Its going to be very entertaining when word gets around to all the Qucumbers that HW is the one keeping Q from them.
Yeah, there have to be some retired sex-pests in the Philippines who are on-board with Q. I doubt he's moved from the city he was previously located in.

If it were me I would track down his marriage records, those should be easy enough to find, figure out what his wife's name is (assuming we don't already know this- really Watkins should leak it out there to assist anyone who does want to make an independent effort on this). If he owns property it will likely be in her name. That could provide a good way to track him down. EDIT: These don't seem to be available online sadly, but it might be possible to go to the appropriate government office in person and get a search done for a marriage contract with 'Frederick Brennan' as the husband. Alternatively I'm sure local PIs would have the contacts to do so.

Could do that at the same time one staked out a few of the local Baptist churches. I didn't see any crippled white pedophiles in the Facebook photos for the ones I checked, so you'd probably want to pay local PIs to do it or attend in person.
 
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I do find it interesting that a developer/co owner (L33tGuy) of a 'decentralised' and freer alternative to 8kun (BlockChan.ca) is trying to shut down 8kun.
IMG_20191020_223404.jpg

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IMG_20191020_223841.jpg
 
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I do find it interesting that a developer/co owner (L33tGuy) of a 'decentralised' and freer alternative to 8kun (BlockChan.ca) is trying to shut down 8kun.

This scumbag can talk all the woke bullshit he likes. I see censorship of the Internet and a scumbag trying to knock out a competitor.
 
Should just rename this thread so that its a cow thread about Brennan.

I can bet you that if FaggotWheels wasn't the way he was, he'd totally make an attempt on Jim's life. Hell, I'm surprised he hasn't swatted Jim or some other extreme action.

The Filipino Swat seem to be shooting to kill so that kind of escalation seems like a bad strat.
 
I'd love to write a book about it all if I could convince any of the principals (Null, Hotwheels, Jim, the guy who runs Gab, etc.) to talk to me at length about how they do it (from either end -- taking down services or keeping them up despite endless machinations to stop them). Of course, revealing any of that would mean the other side could just use that knowledge to hit even harder, so fat chance of those conversations happening. A book about it in general terms (without enough detail to act on) might be interesting, but I imagine it'd be a tough sell to a publisher even without specific details.
in case of gab, they are colocated in interxion data center in zurich (https://www.interxion.com/Locations/zurich/). epik subsidiary sibyl set up their networking and act as their sole upstream, who in turn obtain transit from IPTP (ru) and cdn77/datacamp

cdn77 is interesting. they are czech company provide service for: dlive, bitchute, gab, epik/sibyl (dailystormer & co). could be next target for twitterati? they make no connection yet.

null will not welcome me telling his network intimate, so i stay quiet in that point. ; )
 
It's quite interesting that so many alternative chans are jumping to try and take 8kun down for the traffic, quite a lot of chans in the Alt Chan federation (now the Alt Chan alliance) are doing this
IMG_20191021_082011.jpg

IMG_20191021_081933.jpg

Bit more information about the alt Chan alliance.

The alt Chan federation were exposed in the past for Dividing up communities and doing some reddit pewdiepie shill operation in a way to get more users (probably why they changed the name)

I do find it interesting that a developer/co owner (L33tGuy) of a 'decentralised' and freer alternative to 8kun (BlockChan.ca) is trying to shut down 8kun.
View attachment 978847
View attachment 978850
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Here is some proof that L33TGUY runs blockchan.ca and some more interesting quotes from him.
IMG_20191021_075516.jpg

IMG_20191021_075140.jpg

IMG_20191021_083552.jpg
 
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It's quite interesting that so many alternative chans are jumping to try and take 8kun down for the traffic, quite a lot of chans in the Alt Chan federation (now the Alt Chan alliance) are doing this

Where's the money or clout in this petty bullshit? Nobody engaging in this kind of behavior should ever be trusted by anyone.
 
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Hotwheels is about to be yeeted right about now
He states that he didn't moderate his website properly calling it a haven for child pornography.
This is like a death wish for him.
If anyone just reports that to the Philippine police he could get a lot of time in jail.
Him stating this is absolutely stupid, I think Hotweels is powertripping too much.
 
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Now Hotwheels is trying his hand at being a Twitter lawyer. I wonder what his opinion on Vic Mignogna is?

brennan1.png

(https://archive.li/tQJ4c)

brennan2.png

(https://archive.li/x1n6Y)

Goddamn. Guy needs to chill the fuck out.
 
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