2019-10-16 - Federal Grand Jury Subpoena

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It's ridiculous how much effort and fighting it requires to just be able to call a man in a dress what he is nowadays. I'm sure most of us here would want fag0t sold out just because of his blatant stupidity but it sets a bad precedent, like hosting the KF leaks, and can lead to a slippery slope. Hopefully everything works out for Null and the glowniggers fuck off.

I would like to say though that I'm impartial to the welfare state of Israel and all of my post were 100% honest, including the satire, bait and lies.
 
They don't have to tell us but lawyers that litigate cases, sometimes for years, develop relationships. That's why it's good to find someone who's familiar with them.

Null's not the subject of this subpoena, someone on this forum is. In this instance the SDNY attorney handling this might be willing to disclose, in general terms, what kind of a case this is, especially if it's explained the hesitancy to comply stems from First Amendment/Privacy concerns.

Hypothetically, if the person in question assisted the Halle shooter and was aware of their plan to shoot up the synagogue I think that fits the definition of materiel support for terrorism or at the very least, aiding and abetting, I'm not sure, I was rarely involved in criminal cases. My point is that this isn't merely a First Amendment issue for the owner of this site but it's possibly a criminal matter with international legal issues and you aren't under any moral or ethical obligation to cover for someone if that's the case. Let the subject of the subpoena litigate the First Amendment issues if they want.

I could be wrong and way off the mark though. That's why having an attorney negotiate the disclosure would be best.
It’s something we say all the time here when it comes to lolcows screaming “take that off the internet!”: freedom of speech doesn’t equal freedom of consequences.

That dude was free to post that shit, and as far as I know it wasn’t even asked to be taken down, but if he came by it via nefarious fucking means then that’s not a hill to die on.
 
Am I the only one who thinks of la luz extinguido when someone says glowniggers?

It makes me think of the led ski masks worn by Mexican cartel members.

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Newfag here, can someone update me on what the fuck is going on?

At this point, I'd advise getting a cyanide capsule implanted into your tooth. If you wake up in some sort of tranny rape dungeon then bite it. This may seem extreme but it means you'll go to Valhalla with your oral virginity intact.


Why are there two users called 'fag0t' with different UIDs, one posting content that gets The Farms subpoena'd and the other calling Null a 'gutless cuck' for complying with said subpoena?

That's weird on multiple levels. Firstly why does Kiwi Farm allow two people to have the same name with different UIDs and secondly does it not seem odd that the two accounts seem to be pushing Null into a contempt of court charge?
 
Hypothetically, if the person in question assisted the Halle shooter and was aware of their plan to shoot up the synagogue I think that fits the definition of materiel support for terrorism or at the very least, aiding and abetting, I'm not sure, I was rarely involved in criminal cases. My point is that this isn't merely a First Amendment issue for the owner of this site but it's possibly a criminal matter with international legal issues and you aren't under any moral or ethical obligation to cover for someone if that's the case. Let the subject of the subpoena litigate the First Amendment issues if they want.

There's an interesting A&H thread at the moment which is about US authorities having the power to act against people spreading international terrorist propaganda. I guess they could take the stance that any international mass shooting/terrorist act which is live-streamed by the perpetrators and/or which is accompanied by a manifesto is "propaganda" - and that those uploading it to online spaces are spreading it.
 
It’s something we say all the time here when it comes to lolcows screaming “take that off the internet!”: freedom of speech doesn’t equal freedom of consequences.

That dude was free to post that shit, and as far as I know it wasn’t even asked to be taken down, but if he came by it via nefarious fucking means then that’s not a hill to die on.

It's safe to assume @fag0t has been arrested or gone into hiding, right? He was extremely active until Monday at around 3:40 PM at which point he went poof from the forums. Or was his account disabled?
 
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It's safe to assume @fag0t has been arrested or gone into hiding, right? He was extremely active until Monday at around 3:40 PM at which point he went poof from the forums. Or was his account disabled?

Unlikely. He's got got two tor exit nodes. That's like more l33t than 7 proxies. No government could possibly touch him.
 
There's an interesting A&H thread at the moment which is about US authorities having the power to act against people spreading international terrorist propaganda. I guess they could take the stance that any international mass shooting/terrorist act which is live-streamed by the perpetrators and/or which is accompanied by a manifesto is "propaganda" - and that those uploading it to online spaces are spreading it.
Printing, selling, sharing or posting an imbecile's schizophrenic ramblings manifesto is protected under the First Amendment. If I say "Here's El Retardo's manifesto, I am in total agreement with what he says in fact I am joining his movement send us money and bullets pls" that's enough to get a visit from the FBI and maybe criminal charges too. Context is everything in this situation.
Unlikely. He's got got two tor exit nodes. That's like more l33t than 7 proxies.
Was that really @fag0t or someone pretending to be him?
 
I say just give them what they're asking for. Being doxed is part of the risk for using this site (though typically it's just users doxing themselves/each other and not the government, but whatever.) If Null doesn't have the money to put up a fight, he doesn't really have any other options.

Kind of ironic that the same guy who suggested that we imagine our actual photos and names next to what we say is now worried that he will have to reveal the identity of a poster. People shouldn't post autistic garbage in the first place if they don't want people trying to figure out their identity. You can't post a fucking insane manifesto and be surprised that it has consequences.

It's a shame that someone else's stupid behavior got Null in trouble, though. A lot of people are going to try to blame Null for "creating a culture where this behavior is accepted," but that perspective is idiotic, a) because the site's "culture" varies greatly, and b) because it literally says in the goddamn rules that we're not an autistic illuminati. I think posting your batshit manifesto thoroughly qualifies as treating the site like an autistic Illuminati lmao

Printing, selling, sharing or posting an imbecile's schizophrenic ramblings manifesto is protected under the First Amendment. If I say "Here's El Retardo's manifesto, I am in total agreement with what he says in fact I am joining his movement send us money and bullets pls" that's enough to get a visit from the FBI and maybe criminal charges too. Context is everything in this situation.

Was that really @fag0t or someone pretending to be him?
Technically there are limits to free speech. Categorizing online speech as opposed to spoken word is tricky, but you could make a pretty strong case for terrorist propaganda falling under one of the following exceptions: fighting words or incitement of violence.

Additionally, "free speech" doesn't entitle you to anonymity, and it doesn't mean that your speech has no consequences. It means that your speech has no government-imposed consequences. We've all heard stories about people getting fired because they posted some dumb shit on Facebook and their employer saw it. So long as these people are employed by a private entity (and not the government) and terminating them would not be considered discriminatory in their state, it doesn't violate the first amendment.

I also sort of doubt that the post itself was the crime, because as much as I've gone on about exceptions to free speech, speech crimes are very rarely enforced. They might just be looking for evidence connected to something else, which granted isn't a good look for the site either, but it's also not a restriction of free speech. Anything you say can and will be used against you, as it goes. The post (which is technically hearsay but most hearsay is allowed into evidence anyway because of exceptions) is probably being used to prove some other point.
 
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My point is that this isn't merely a First Amendment issue for the owner of this site but it's possibly a criminal matter with international legal issues and you aren't under any moral or ethical obligation to cover for someone if that's the case. Let the subject of the subpoena litigate the First Amendment issues if they want.

I could be wrong and way off the mark though. That's why having an attorney negotiate the disclosure would be best.

There's no "possible" about it. They say in the very first line

"An official criminal investigation of a suspected felony being conducted by a federal grand jury."
The 2nd page gives contact info for null to send the deets, to an FBI counter-terrorism unit. Come on.

Like you and others have said, just because they wan't fag0t's info doesn't mean they think fag0t is the one that dun did it. They may just need the manifesto as evidence and evidence has to be authenticated. However, while I don't disagree with what you're saying overall (I snipped your post for space) the idea that federal prosecutors are going to disclose anything is extremely optimistic. It's true that there's no way of knowing until you try, but it just pisses me off to think of null having to spend his merch run shekels on this bullshit. He has also begged his users to protect themselves on this website.

And, many times when you file a motion to quash because a subpoena is too vague or overreaching, there's going to be sort of an expectation that you're prepared to present something in good faith. If you're doing it for purely ideological reasons (read: "lol eat shit glowniggers") it's probably not going to work out in your favor especially for a grand jury.
 
Is Null going to cuck and give my information to the US government, to be put on / amplified on a terror watchlist for viewing words?

I'm under no illusions that some Government body isn't able to get all of this information on its own (through Javascript?), but no one likes a cuck.
Always assume the answer is yes and don’t post spooky shit. It’s just that simple.
 
Why are there two users called 'fag0t' with different UIDs, one posting content that gets The Farms subpoena'd and the other calling Null a 'gutless cuck' for complying with said subpoena?

That's weird on multiple levels. Firstly why does Kiwi Farm allow two people to have the same name with different UIDs and secondly does it not seem odd that the two accounts seem to be pushing Null into a contempt of court charge?
The URL doesn't contain the username, it contains a URL-friendly version of it. The UID is the number at the end, and is included precisely because different usernames can result in the same URL-friendly version. This isn't exactly widely known, but it isn't a secret either. The more recent account could just be a troll.

As for how in this specific case, the most likely guess is unicode fuckery. In fact, the more recent account has a "CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER A (U+0430)," а, in place of the regular lowercase a. Depending on the font, they look identical.
 
There's no "possible" about it. They say in the very first line

"An official criminal investigation of a suspected felony being conducted by a federal grand jury."
The 2nd page gives contact info for null to send the deets, to an FBI counter-terrorism unit. Come on.

Like you and others have said, just because they wan't fag0t's info doesn't mean they think fag0t is the one that dun did it. They may just need the manifesto as evidence and evidence has to be authenticated. However, while I don't disagree with what you're saying overall (I snipped your post for space) the idea that federal prosecutors are going to disclose anything is extremely optimistic. It's true that there's no way of knowing until you try, but it just pisses me off to think of null having to spend his merch run shekels on this bullshit. He has also begged his users to protect themselves on this website.

And, many times when you file a motion to quash because a subpoena is too vague or overreaching, there's going to be sort of an expectation that you're prepared to present something in good faith. If you're doing it for purely ideological reasons (read: "lol eat shit glowniggers") it's probably not going to work out in your favor especially for a grand jury.
I was making a general statement and you're right, they've impaneled a grand jury to bring a criminal felony indictment. Null isn't being asked to testify but just produce records he has in his possession of a user. He should comply because Kiwi Farms does not exist to either enable or support criminal behavior or activity as far as I know.

Prosecutors are people who went to law school and work for the government. The SDNY isn't a place where the bottom third of law school graduates end up. It's possible to have a conversation and say "I'd like to cooperate but I have concerns and if you can explain a couple of things to me I'd really appreciate it." As long as someone feels you're being sincere I don't think in this particular situation they'd react in a hostile manner especially since they'd rather have you produce the records in question voluntarily. I've worked in this profession, I'm familiar with this process and I can see how it may alarm someone who hasn't so apologies if I seem overly optimistic.
 
Always assume the answer is yes and don’t post spooky shit. It’s just that simple.

More importantly, dont post shit talking about sending money to terrorists. Of course the government will want to know about that. We have a rule about not pozloading my negholep. That includes not being a turbo autistic talking about how you want to help gas the kikes... literally. There is being reflexively contrarian and then there is the realization that nobody here wants this place to be used for actual shenanigans.
 
I was making a general statement and you're right, they've impaneled a grand jury to bring a criminal felony indictment. Null isn't being asked to testify but just produce records he has in his possession of a user. He should comply because Kiwi Farms does not exist to either enable or support criminal behavior or activity as far as I know.

Prosecutors are people who went to law school and work for the government. The SDNY isn't a place where the bottom third of law school graduates end up. It's possible to have a conversation and say "I'd like to cooperate but I have concerns and if you can explain a couple of things to me I'd really appreciate it." As long as someone feels you're being sincere I don't think in this particular situation they'd react in a hostile manner especially since they'd rather have you produce the records in question voluntarily. I've worked in this profession, I'm familiar with this process and I can see how it may alarm someone who hasn't so apologies if I seem overly optimistic.

????? "Hostile" is a strong word. I said it's highly unlikely they're going to disclose anything.

So my question for you becomes, should he really splash out for representation just to have them call up and ask for clarification, again keeping in mind they're likely to be told, however politely, that they aren't going to disclose anything? Is it worth for null to pay for someone to file a motion to quash that's unlikely to be successful especially because the whole point of him filing is that he's ideologically opposed and doesn't want to hand over anything ?

Is it worth it?
 
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More importantly, dont post shit talking about sending money to terrorists. Of course the government will want to know about that. We have a rule about not pozloading my neghole. That includes not being a turbo autistic talking about how you want to help gas the kikes... literally. There is being reflexively contrarian and then there is the realization that nobody here wants this place to be used for actual shenanigans.
Now if fagot had double posted or tweeted Chris Chan, then maybe we got something.
 
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