US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

  • 🔧 At about Midnight EST I am going to completely fuck up the site trying to fix something.

Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
Honestly, the lesson that I've taken from Brennan's present behaviour is that Jim Watkins, while certainly an unsympathetic figure in many ways, probably erred more in trusting Brennan than in anything else.

With how frequently and blatantly he lies about his own actions, one can assume that his reporting to Watkins on things like Infinity Next was more than a little skewed to promote himself at the expense of anyone else.

The thing is that @Null basically confirmed Watkins was an asshole and he didn't like him. There have been people other than Brennan who have dealt with him and have said consistently similar things, so I can sort of believe it.

My main point still stands: He stabbed an asshole in the back, in a country with a corrupt government and law enforcement arm (who are completely comfortable doing on the spot executions, as endorsed by their president) who has nothing but time and money on his hands to think how he can fuck over Brennan who has no money. He did all of this, not out of any moral good, but to be a whore. He's risking his life and freedom to be an ideological prostitute and egotist. Even if Watkins won't get his hands dirty, there are all sorts of innovative ways he could fuck with and destroy Brennan's life. You don't fuck with people who have money or the potential to have money and think you're going to get away clean. Peter Thiel was outed by Gawker. He spent millions just to destroy them. To think that this is just an internet battle or sperg fest when you live in the same country, are fucking with every aspect of this guy's life, won't bleed over into reality, you're just kidding yourself.

And all of this, every single thing he's risking, is so he can whore himself out. Not for ideology, not for principles, not for morality or justice. But to be a fucking whore. He either has a severe personality disorder or he's really fucking stupid. Or both.
 
The thing is that @Null basically confirmed Watkins was an asshole and he didn't like him. There have been people other than Brennan who have dealt with him and have said consistently similar things, so I can sort of believe it.

My main point still stands: He stabbed an asshole in the back, in a country with a corrupt government and law enforcement arm (who are completely comfortable doing on the spot executions, as endorsed by their president) who has nothing but time and money on his hands to think how he can fuck over Brennan who has no money. He did all of this, not out of any moral good, but to be a whore. He's risking his life and freedom to be an ideological prostitute and egotist. Even if Watkins won't get his hands dirty, there are all sorts of innovative ways he could fuck with and destroy Brennan's life. You don't fuck with people who have money or the potential to have money and think you're going to get away clean. Peter Thiel was outed by Gawker. He spent millions just to destroy them. To think that this is just an internet battle or sperg fest when you live in the same country, are fucking with every aspect of this guy's life, won't bleed over into reality, you're just kidding yourself.

And all of this, every single thing he's risking, is so he can whore himself out. Not for ideology, not for principles, not for morality or justice. But to be a fucking whore. He either has a severe personality disorder or he's really fucking stupid. Or both.
The fact that Watkins hasn't taken out Brennan strongly suggests that he's a lot more tolerant and nice than Brennan loves to claim. The legal action he's taken is entirely reasonable and the minimum that anyone being similarly defamed should do.

I don't doubt that Null had a bad relationship with Watkins, and I really haven't looked into what the actual specifics of things like the 2ch buyout involved, but in the former case Brennan was the direct report who had the opportunity to poison the working relationship to maintain his own importance, and in the latter there is ongoing legal action. Frankly, there is no reason to believe anything that Brennan says, and every reason to suspect him of engaging in lies both to Watkins and to others well before he left 8chan.
 
I like how hotwheels keeps popping up here to tell us all the petty shit he does. What are the odds he autistically reads what we're saying about him?
Of course he does. if it wasn't for bad attention he wouldn't get any attention at all. People avoid disabled adults even when they're otherwise good looking and Brennan isn't.
 
8kun is almost back up online, apparently most boards on vch.moe are going to be redirected to 8kun later today and the site should fully be up by tomorrow.
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Update: 8kun is now fully back and vch.moe is now read only
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8kun is almost back up online, apparently most boards on vch.moe are going to be redirected to 8kun later today and the site should fully be up by tomorrow.
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That's just /v/ and /tv/ and /pol/ is apparently not there. Also /cow/ doesn't seem to intend to return.
 
Wait is HW really trying to be a journalist? I thought he was joking.

He has a complete lack of any qualifications, no integrity whatsoever, backstabs foe and friend alike, is a prolific liar, is one fall away from being literally, physically as spineless as a jellyfish, and is more or less an absolute piece of shit. So why shouldn't he? He fits all the job requirements.
 
Wait is HW really trying to be a journalist? I thought he was joking.
Him and L33tguy are ostensibly attacking different "free speech" sites for hosting teh NAzi, just to prove how these sites are still vulnerable to censorship.

There is a sort of consistent logic to it, impo.

HW claims he used to use legal pedo stuff as the bell weather for free speech, because, even if it's diseased and no person wants to be associated with kidfuckers, if it's legal, it's in play. So, whether or not something is "real and protected free speech" or if it's just a case of "has this not been censored YET" is something to be concerned about in this environment of Free Speech alternative platforms that's come to dominate the post-net-neutrality internet.

So, I think the position is that people need to not settle for an internet where free speech is more like a brand than a reality?
I'm reading between a lot of lines here.
 
The fact that Watkins hasn't taken out Brennan strongly suggests that he's a lot more tolerant and nice than Brennan loves to claim. The legal action he's taken is entirely reasonable and the minimum that anyone being similarly defamed should do.

I don't doubt that Null had a bad relationship with Watkins, and I really haven't looked into what the actual specifics of things like the 2ch buyout involved, but in the former case Brennan was the direct report who had the opportunity to poison the working relationship to maintain his own importance, and in the latter there is ongoing legal action. Frankly, there is no reason to believe anything that Brennan says, and every reason to suspect him of engaging in lies both to Watkins and to others well before he left 8chan.

I don't but you can still be an asshole and not go to the lengths to murder someone. Still, in all honesty, let the man do what the fuck he wants. 8chn was filled with Trolls, and Facebook alone was home to more mass shootings and death than 8chn itself could ever hope to be.

Wait is HW really trying to be a journalist? I thought he was joking.

He has a complete lack of any qualifications, no integrity whatsoever, backstabs foe and friend alike, is a prolific liar, is one fall away from being literally, physically as spineless as a jellyfish, and is more or less an absolute piece of shit. So why shouldn't he? He fits all the job requirements.

You're forgetting he's got the intelligence of a fly. The dude is a stupid motherfucker. He thinks he's slick, but he transparent as fuck. He gave up everything to be a whore and is stupid enough to think that these people will ever accept him in their circle. HW is a disgusting weirdo who wrote for a literal Nazi website on Eugenics, making it hilariously easy to paint him as an actual Nazi. He will always be remembered for this and 8chn. The second he is ineffective about doing anything around its return and becomes old news, they'll just go back to fucking him.

Since he's completely alienated everyone who would ever support him, hilariously he'd be alone. Which is what the little faggot deserves. He did all this shit and when karma is a bitch, he will try crawling back and painting himself a victim, like his friends do. And when he does, inevitably try crawling back, like the disgusting parasitic worm he is, I hope everyone tells him to bite the curb.

A dumb, lying, narcissistic hypocrite traitor with no care for morality, ethics or justice who is perfectly content to risk their own freedom and the freedoms of others just to whore themselves to people who obviously hate you. There is absolutely a limitless amount of contempt I have for people like him, which is mostly a personal thing because I don't look at people who betray others as actual people. Neither did Dante, and as I said before, its why traitors occupy the 9th circle of hell to be devoured by Satan for all eternity. Brennan's soul is as twisted and rotten as the body he was born in.
 
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Wait is HW really trying to be a journalist? I thought he was joking.

So did all of us, I think. But apparently he's not joking. (Well, not on purpose, anyway.)
AsPiRiNg_JoUrNaLiSt.png

(https://archive.li/kjOqP)

Him and L33tguy are ostensibly attacking different "free speech" sites for hosting teh NAzi, just to prove how these sites are still vulnerable to censorship.
Is that what's happening? Because I'm of the opinion that it's the other way around at this point. They're ostensibly attacking claims of 'decentralization', but their actual motives are absolutely trying to deplatform people and "stop the next mass shooting" or whatever.

I definitely agree that they're trying to deceive someone as to their motives with all of this equivocation. But I think that someone is you and me, rather then the media/leftists on Twitter.
n33tguy.png

(https://archive.li/wnhUJ)
 
It's absolutely hilarious to me that l33tguy and hotwheels are so open to media exposure when a little digging leads you to things like pic related.

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The tl;dr is that a global mod on 8chan banned people for posting onion links to CP and Hotwheels publicly called him out for deleting them. Old news for sure, but still relevant today with how censorious he's been in the last year.
 
It's absolutely hilarious to me that l33tguy and hotwheels are so open to media exposure when a little digging leads you to things like pic related.

And it's completely expected that the media whores in question will willingly use him and N33T GUY as a source despite both of them being knowingly connected to platforms that host CP and this not being anything remotely like a secret.
 
That's just /v/ and /tv/ and /pol/ is apparently not there. Also /cow/ doesn't seem to intend to return.
All I will miss is /cow/ only occasionally perused it and/mde/ really ... oh speaking of cowforums... this is really interesting.


As for Brennan and leetspeakguy it is kind of funny that they are saying how bad guys like Alex Jones are that they need to be deplatformed when at least Jones and Black Pigeon Speaks etc dont host literal child porn! I havent even gotten through this digging thread a lot of this stuff I already have in a document that I've been putting together just none of it is sorted, categorized or even labeled for the most part but there is was an old IRC chat where a /b/ mod asks Fred to shut down the site due to an issue where mods literally cant delete threads and a flood of cp was coming in. Hotwheels yawns and is like "yeah in a couple of days." Lol wat?!?

I think @Secret Asshole is likely right that eventually another Daily Dot, Buzzbottomfeeder or HuffPoseur will eventually come along and gank him. I'd say they will let him go for a while. Maybe even a year or two so the 'we thought he was a changed man, reformed but no look' tale will be more dramatic.

Those oxys loosen his tongue and dumb down his brain a bit cuz why else would he openly brag about throwing BPS under the bus to score good boy points at Dot? Does he not know ALL OF THIS STUFF IS, HAS BEEN AND CONTINUES TO BE ARCHIVED!

cp (by which I mean mister copypasta sold to bellingcat and the dot) once said something something "if I were Richard Stallman." Psssh if you were half as smart as you think you are you'd know better than the dumb shit you've done openly and with the record button mashed...
 
Now that 8kun is up, I'm wondering if any of the other boards will migrate there or not.

/y2k/ migrated to Julay World and renamed itself /retro/ since the board now intends to include 90's nostalgia alongside the original 2000's nostalgia theme. Wouldn't be surprised if they migrated to 8kun, along with any other niche boards on Julay.
 
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