General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[tiggles]

I think we should throw the term transgender out the window, label everyone who medically transitions a transsexual since it's biologically correct and treat gender dysphoria like a rare subset of the dysphoria experienced by cis people.

It seems wrong to treat dysphoria like a tranny exclusive thing or to say that it always stems from "your brain not matching up with your body". If it was really a brain/body mismatch we would be seeing a lot more claims of phantom cocks/vaginas, no? Like when amputees feel like their limbs are still attached.


I think Blanchard was wrong when he associated AGP to transbians. Lots of HSTS troons transition because they get off on imagining themselves as women too, usually porn star bimbos getting railed by giant cocks. We don't notice them as much because they spend time in fetish circles where they're actually wanted instead of sperging on reddit, though.

Ann lawrence expanded on Blanchard’s work and pointed out that getting railed by giant cocks is the logical conclusion to many AGP fantasies. Basically taking the paraphilia to the further extreme than just transbian - becoming the cock hungry slut. Sexual “reorientation” is occasionally observed in transgender people and it can be either from internalized homophobia/repressed homosexuality or extreme AGP behavior.

btw Ann lawrence is a self-ascribed AGP. His PhD is actually applicable to this field though.

ETA also according to Cohen-Kettenis, the number of self-reported homosexual transsexuals may be inflated due to the MTF community resistance to autogynephilia. Lawrence reports that “Thus, many observed deviations from the theorized association between autogynephilia and sexual orientation in MtF transsexuals are plausibly attributable to misreporting of either autogynephilic arousal or sexual orientation (but not both) by putatively nonandrophilic MtFs.”

here’s a link to a review paper Lawrence wrote on ~~troons getting their panties bunched~~ controversies on AGP typology. The summary section (right before citations) is hilariously snarky.
www.annelawrence.com/autogynephilia_&_MtF_typology.html

 

[toledo]

I am all for the State neutering / spaying trans-identifying people.
Eugenics is only unethical when it's forced.
Please use my tax dollars to stop mentally ill people from reproducing.

 

[heathercho]

Everybody is cool with trans rights til somebody fucks it up for them IRL. it’s not like homophobe grandpa realizes he was wrong after meeting mr gay bro next door, or “wow maybe those chinks aren’t so bad after all, this food is delicious!” I used to be on the trans women are women train til my AGP ex trooned out and got really creepy and totally unrealistic about bathrooms, periods, participating in women’s sports, and other stuff that is too OT/ :powerlevel: to justify sharing. Unfortunately I believe gen pop are unable to distinguish between confused gay transsexuals and AGP creeps/mentally ill/general jackasses so it’s a zero tolerance stance from me. take Canada - self-ID as a concept, and fully tolerant women’s sports/spaces as another concept, are mutually irreconcilable because of dicks like JY, rogaine ogre, and McKinnon.

Honestly, I'd be happy to go scorched earth and just kill them all, but unfortunately we can't do that and we have to come to some kinda compromise in society. It's either we set some rules or let them walk all over us.

Self-ID should be eradicated. It should be impossibly hard to get your gender changed legally. The laws should not allow biological sex markers to be changed. Ever. It should be a source of shame if you announce you're a TRANS___. The definitions of male and female need to be fortified and used as a line in the sand instead of gender being more important.
But will we be able to achieve that? Progressive women are handmaidens.
We have no insane asylums to put people in.
We have no wars to thin out the numbers and eradicate the incels.

We have the internet, hentai and cheap horse piss hormones.

Transgender is the perfect thing to call them tho, because they can't be trans sex. Gender is an autism honeypot, so they can have that. But they will never be biologically the sex they want.

 

[vintologi]

Ann lawrence expanded on Blanchard’s work and pointed out that getting railed by giant cocks is the logical conclusion to many AGP fantasies. Basically taking the paraphilia to the further extreme than just transbian - becoming the cock hungry slut. Sexual “reorientation” is occasionally observed in transgender people and it can be either from internalized homophobia/repressed homosexuality or extreme AGP behavior.

btw Ann lawrence is a self-ascribed AGP. His PhD is actually applicable to this field though.

ETA also according to Cohen-Kettenis, the number of self-reported homosexual transsexuals may be inflated due to the MTF community resistance to autogynephilia. Lawrence reports that “Thus, many observed deviations from the theorized association between autogynephilia and sexual orientation in MtF transsexuals are plausibly attributable to misreporting of either autogynephilic arousal or sexual orientation (but not both) by putatively nonandrophilic MtFs.”

here’s a link to a review paper Lawrence wrote on ~~troons getting their panties bunched~~ controversies on AGP typology. The summary section (right before citations) is hilariously snarky.
www.annelawrence.com/autogynephilia_&_MtF_typology.html

 

[Lemmingwise]

Why the hell should you lend your body to an incel for free after transitioning?

Transwomen that transition will mostly end up fucking each other ignoring incels and chasers.

Wait wait wait

You're posting online guides on how to beat incel-ism by going trans. Now you say that transwomen mostly end up fucking each other. Doesn't that mean that it's exactly what @ProgKing of the North suggested? A way for incels to fuck each other?

Why not take out the middleman of mutilating your body and just fuck each other?

 

[qt farmer :)]

I've been seeing this a lot and I think it's funny that they choose "this" example for the mental gymnastics, when in reality trannies sperg out over gender and biology that they inevitably start tripping over themselves and often contradict their doctrines.

case in point: their adherence to gender stereotypes and norms of the opposite sex that "validates" them all while damning them and claiming gender doesn't exist.

 

[vintologi]

Wait wait wait

You're posting online guides on how to beat incel-ism by going trans. Now you say that transwomen mostly end up fucking each other. Doesn't that mean that it's exactly what @ProgKing of the North suggested? A way for incels to fuck each other?

Why not take out the middleman of mutilating your body?

They are not gay so they need to feminize themselves first.

Bottom surgery is not required, its mostly for people with severe genital dysphoria.

 

[💗Freddie Freaker💗]

I don't understand trans people who say you don't need dysphoria to be trans. Most of the trans people I know say that it's kind of a requirement. I fully support trans people & shit but it confuses me sometimes with how many differences there are.
Sorry I'm tripping right now, I hope what I said makes sense.

Honestly, I'd be happy to go scorched earth and just kill them all, but unfortunately we can't do that and we have to come to some kinda compromise in society. It's either we set some rules or let them walk all over us.

Self-ID should be eradicated. It should be impossibly hard to get your gender changed legally. The laws should not allow biological sex markers to be changed. Ever. It should be a source of shame if you announce you're a TRANS___. The definitions of male and female need to be fortified and used as a line in the sand instead of gender being more important.
But will we be able to achieve that? Progressive women are handmaidens.
We have no insane asylums to put people in.
We have no wars to thin out the numbers and eradicate the incels.

We have the internet, hentai and cheap horse piss hormones.

Transgender is the perfect thing to call them tho, because they can't be trans sex. Gender is an autism honeypot, so they can have that. But they will never be biologically the sex they want.

How can you legally change your gender? As far as I know everything on legal documents is supposed to be sex. They are legally changing their sex from M to F or vice versa and it's retarded because it doesn't reflect reality.

I think calling them transsexual is better because the ones who medically transition are, in fact, changing their sex. They don't become the opposite sex, rather they become a specific type of intersex that we could simply call trans. Maybe transwomen could get MTF on their legal documents and transmen could get FTM to reflect the changes they've made to their bodies.

I'm not a medical professional, though, so I could be totally wrong about them becoming intersex. After all, they can't change their chromosomes or most of their physical attributes.. if so, feel free to correct me.

 

[Lemmingwise]

They are not gay

They are not women or transwomen either.

They can condition themselves into gay stuff, just like they can condition themselves into tranny stuff. Why would the irreversable path be the prefferable one?

 

[AnOminous]

I've been seeing this a lot and I think it's funny that they choose "this" example for the mental gymnastics, when in reality trannies sperg out over gender and biology that they inevitably start tripping over themselves and often contradict their doctrines.

Troons can only do mental gymnastics. They can't do physical gymnastics. Because they're fat.

 

[tiggles]

How can you legally change your gender? As far as I know everything on legal documents is supposed to be sex. They are legally changing their sex from M to F or vice versa and it's exceptional because it doesn't reflect reality.

I think calling them transsexual is better because the ones who medically transition are, in fact, changing their sex. They don't become the opposite sex, rather they become a specific type of intersex that we could simply call trans. Maybe transwomen could get MTF on their legal documents and transmen could get FTM to reflect the changes they've made to their bodies.

I'm not a medical professional, though, so I could be totally wrong about them becoming intersex. After all, they can't change their chromosomes or most of their physical attributes.. if so, feel free to correct me.

I haven’t really thought about whether to consider the artificial intersex before. hmm.

Intersex is challenging to define so I’m sure we could derail this thread for five pages on it. There’s a broad range of conditions that can lead to intersex traits, since the term intersex describes the manifestation, not the ultimate cause, of people having ambiguous sexed traits. Most people think of mosaic genetics or xxy chromosomes when they think of intersex. But it can arise from a number of causes, not really gonna detail here.

IMO, and this is where the disagreements will happen, trans people are... artificially intersex? But not really intersex. If you removed artificial intervention they would express natal sex hormones unless they gave themselves a Darwin Award by technicality via castration/whatever it’s called for females. But honestly it would be the most minimal, vague of so-called synthetic intersex conditions. Different balding patterns, bizarre bitch tits, maybe slightly different skin... but no ambiguous genitalia, skeletons would be unambiguous once we flayed them, etc. btw, have any papers been published on heart attacks in troons vs women? Women tend to express heart attack symptoms differently, so I was wondering if hormones impacted that at all. I’d assume troons would do the classic “can’t feel my fucking arm?!” As opposed to women who can get fucking jaw pain of all things. Heart attack or tooth ache? Better get the ice pack, Betty.

all that being said... genuine intersex as a medical term should be fiercely protected by medical professionals and intersex individuals so that these people can get the diagnosis and care they NEED. leftie jackasses failed the females, hopefully they get their shit sorted out and fall over themselves to actually help the ambiguously sexed cripples.

 

[Opiophile]

Going for escorts is not a good option, it may allow you to get sex but it will not give you any love or validation. Elliot rodgers father offered to pay for escorts so he would get sex but elliot rodger wasn't interested.


Why the hell should you lend your body to an incel for free after transitioning?

Transwomen that transition will mostly end up fucking each other ignoring incels and chasers.

Elliot also thought that girls were supposed to ask HIM out, and not the other way around. He refused to even try, so it's not a good example to make your case on dude. You are a sick and twisted person if you think this is a good solution for "incels."

 

[Monsieur Guillotine]

I was just thinking recently about how obnoxious it is when a man grows up liking women his whole life, then decides to troon out, and all of a sudden he's "SO GAY~~~ ❤".

Whether you subscribe to the "trans women are women" ideology or not, you have to admit that's a load of horseshit.

 

[Lord Xenu]

There are different theories on what females prefer and the importance of different traits.

You dont need to attract cis lesbians to benefit from transmaxxing, most people that transition will probably be more compatible with other transbians.

They are trans if they persue medical transition.

If you have dysphoria but dont transition you belong to the "desist" or "detrans" category

I mean, if incels are going to be taking hormones and having cosmetic surgery anyways why not take testosterone, fix their weak chins and giant noses, and become a Chad? Cuz the chances you're gonna become a Stacy are next to nil.

 

[soft breathing]

I was just thinking recently about how obnoxious it is when a man grows up liking women his whole life, then decides to troon out, and all of a sudden he's "SO GAY~~~ ❤".

Whether you subscribe to the "trans women are women" ideology or not, you have to admit that's a load of horseshit.

It gets even more ridiculous when those "gay women", mostly those who still have their dicks, start to demand 'real' lesbians to fuck them. And if they don't it's discrimination. Fuck this shit.

I mean, if incels are going to be taking hormones and having cosmetic surgery anyways why not take testosterone, fix their weak chins and giant noses, and become a Chad? Cuz the chances you're gonna become a Stacy are next to nil.

But taking Estrogen, not working out, just being fat, letting your hair and tits grow is way easier than working out. I doubt just taking Testosterone without putting actual work into your body will make your muscles grow? Correct me if I'm wrong.
And there's still the (not just) Incel perception that women, no matter how ugly, can get everyone they want to have.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

I was just thinking recently about how obnoxious it is when a man grows up liking women his whole life, then decides to troon out, and all of a sudden he's "SO GAY~~~ ❤".

Whether you subscribe to the "trans women are women" ideology or not, you have to admit that's a load of horseshit.

See, that's what makes no sense to me. When I was a kid, my granddad always explained to me that troons trooned out so that they could fuck other dudes without having to say they were gay. That made sense to 8 year old Armalite. Instead, we get this. It is quite literally straight men in wigs talking with a shitty falsetto trying to press-gang women into sex.

You know what that kind of shit used to get called? Sexual harassment. What the fuck, troons?

 

[cowisnow]

Who talks to their 8 year old about troons? That's way too young, IMO.

 

[💗Freddie Freaker💗]

I haven’t really thought about whether to consider the artificial intersex before. hmm.

Intersex is challenging to define so I’m sure we could derail this thread for five pages on it. There’s a broad range of conditions that can lead to intersex traits, since the term intersex describes the manifestation, not the ultimate cause, of people having ambiguous sexed traits. Most people think of mosaic genetics or xxy chromosomes when they think of intersex. But it can arise from a number of causes, not really gonna detail here.

IMO, and this is where the disagreements will happen, trans people are... artificially intersex? But not really intersex. If you removed artificial intervention they would express natal sex hormones unless they gave themselves a Darwin Award by technicality via castration/whatever it’s called for females. But honestly it would be the most minimal, vague of so-called synthetic intersex conditions. Different balding patterns, bizarre bitch tits, maybe slightly different skin... but no ambiguous genitalia, skeletons would be unambiguous once we flayed them, etc. btw, have any papers been published on heart attacks in troons vs women? Women tend to express heart attack symptoms differently, so I was wondering if hormones impacted that at all. I’d assume troons would do the classic “can’t feel my fucking arm?!” As opposed to women who can get fucking jaw pain of all things. Heart attack or tooth ache? Better get the ice pack, Betty.

all that being said... genuine intersex as a medical term should be fiercely protected by medical professionals and intersex individuals so that these people can get the diagnosis and care they NEED. leftie jackasses failed the females, hopefully they get their shit sorted out and fall over themselves to actually help the ambiguously sexed cripples.

The MTF or FTM labels might still be useful to let doctors know what the person they're dealing with has done to their body and to let everyone else know they're dealing with someone who has mental issues. At any rate, I agree that legally changing your sex from M to F or F to M shouldn't be allowed and they shouldn't be lumped in with people who were born intersex either.

 

[Nykysnottrans]

Who talks to their 8 year old about troons? That's way too young, IMO.

Powerlevelling a bit, I already knew what a transsexual was by the age of 12 because I read an article about a transsexual woman in a publication for teens. It was an op-ed column where the transsexual woman wrote about transitioning and even wrote that her doctor had told her she was going to have "a vagina with actual feeling". This was in the early 1990s, the only term used back then was "transsexual" and I personally didn't encounter the term "transgender" until the mid-aughts. This idea of a man not wanting to be a man and wanting to be a woman instead, I didn't find that at all strange. It was too perplexing to consider whether this was actually possible through the magic of science, but to my naive infantile mind it made sense that if you don't want to be the one thing, you can opt to become the other. I didn't question that at 12.

It was only later as an adult when I read about what SRS actually entailed (skinning a dick and stuffing the skin into a hole, this was before I learned about the even newer variants with scrotal skin, peritoneal lining, etc.) that I realized there was no fucking way you could maintain feeling after such a radical operation and that the doctor was basically lying to the patient. Later I also learned about DNA and that was when I realized that there is no way you can ever turn a man into a woman. You can only make a man look like a woman, kinda sorta. But these are things you learn with age and schooling, not something that can ever be explained to children. Children should not be confused with gender bullshit. Children should be taught basic ethics and humane values, like treating everyone with respect, not bullying others because they are different, all that basic "how to be a decent person" stuff that is part of their socialization. You don't need to confuse kids with gender bullshit to teach them that.

 

[TheSpinyShell]

How can you legally change your gender? As far as I know everything on legal documents is supposed to be sex. They are legally changing their sex from M to F or vice versa and it's exceptional because it doesn't reflect reality.

I think calling them transsexual is better because the ones who medically transition are, in fact, changing their sex. They don't become the opposite sex, rather they become a specific type of intersex that we could simply call trans. Maybe transwomen could get MTF on their legal documents and transmen could get FTM to reflect the changes they've made to their bodies.

I'm not a medical professional, though, so I could be totally wrong about them becoming intersex. After all, they can't change their chromosomes or most of their physical attributes.. if so, feel free to correct me.

I haven’t really thought about whether to consider the artificial intersex before. hmm.

Intersex is challenging to define so I’m sure we could derail this thread for five pages on it. There’s a broad range of conditions that can lead to intersex traits, since the term intersex describes the manifestation, not the ultimate cause, of people having ambiguous sexed traits. Most people think of mosaic genetics or xxy chromosomes when they think of intersex. But it can arise from a number of causes, not really gonna detail here.

IMO, and this is where the disagreements will happen, trans people are... artificially intersex? But not really intersex. If you removed artificial intervention they would express natal sex hormones unless they gave themselves a Darwin Award by technicality via castration/whatever it’s called for females. But honestly it would be the most minimal, vague of so-called synthetic intersex conditions. Different balding patterns, bizarre bitch tits, maybe slightly different skin... but no ambiguous genitalia, skeletons would be unambiguous once we flayed them, etc. btw, have any papers been published on heart attacks in troons vs women? Women tend to express heart attack symptoms differently, so I was wondering if hormones impacted that at all. I’d assume troons would do the classic “can’t feel my fucking arm?!” As opposed to women who can get fucking jaw pain of all things. Heart attack or tooth ache? Better get the ice pack, Betty.

all that being said... genuine intersex as a medical term should be fiercely protected by medical professionals and intersex individuals so that these people can get the diagnosis and care they NEED. leftie jackasses failed the females, hopefully they get their shit sorted out and fall over themselves to actually help the ambiguously sexed cripples.

As far as intersex conditions go, they're often referred to as disorders of sex development (DSD) nowadays. That name covers pretty much all intersex conditions, since they all boil down to some genetics getting fucked up (whether it's getting the wrong number of X/Y chromosomes or getting a mutation that interferes with normal hormonal pathways) which mess up the sexual development of the individual that has it.

The results of HRT might look superficially similar to some of the milder intersex conditions, but should be dealt with in totally different ways in a medical setting. One is someone with unfortunate genetics while the other is a person who is purposely pumping themselves up with unnatural amount of hormones in a futile attempt to become the opposite sex. A transgender person calling themselves intersex is like someone taking a sledgehammer to their car and calling it a car "accident".