General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[Spastic Colon]

Who talks to their 8 year old about troons? That's way too young, IMO.

Considering there are transgender 3 year olds, not really too old in current year.

And I agree about not lumping troons in with the intersex people. Intersex people have a birth defect. Troons have a mental disorder. Not the same thing at all. I suppose if someday science does prove the lady brain theory, then they could be considered intersex -- but there's currently zero scientific proof that they are born that way and all the evidence points to them being severely mentally ill. Or in the case of kids, highly susceptible to parental/peer influence.

 

[AnOminous]

there are transgender 3 year olds

No there aren't.

 

[Spastic Colon]

No there aren't.

Well, no -- they aren't really transgender. But if your parents tell you that are from the age of 3 on, well, you'll just accept that is what you are. And if they prevent puberty so the hormones that would clear it all up in a heartbeat never get a chance, you are screwed. Most parents need at least 14 or 15 years before they permanently fuck you up. Transgender parents are highly efficient at it.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Troon surgery and drugs should be called by its proper name , castration.

 

[AnOminous]

Troon surgery and drugs should be called by its proper name , castration.

Or genital mutilation. Amputation. Butchery.

 

[heathercho]

How can you legally change your gender? As far as I know everything on legal documents is supposed to be sex. They are legally changing their sex from M to F or vice versa and it's exceptional because it doesn't reflect reality.

I think calling them transsexual is better because the ones who medically transition are, in fact, changing their sex. They don't become the opposite sex, rather they become a specific type of intersex that we could simply call trans. Maybe transwomen could get MTF on their legal documents and transmen could get FTM to reflect the changes they've made to their bodies.

I'm not a medical professional, though, so I could be totally wrong about them becoming intersex. After all, they can't change their chromosomes or most of their physical attributes.. if so, feel free to correct me.

Female (symbol: ♀) is the sex of an organism, or a part of an organism, that produces non-mobile ova (egg cells). Barring rare medical conditions, most female mammals, including female humans, have two X chromosomes.

Biologically, you cannot change your sex. Since gender is a "Social construct" you can change that. It's not tangible, where as sex is tangible. It's something that can be observed, measured, cited and proved. Gender is "a feeling" or an association.
It's also why you can't be assigned "male" or "female" at birth. You are either male or female. That's a biological reality.

This is where the mental illness and delusion of troons comes in. They know they're being intellectually dishonest. They know they're manipulating the system. They don't care. Honesty and reality isn't their objective. Getting what they want is. For example ;

Many want me to race against men. I have news for them: I’m not allowed. I’m legally female. My birth certificate, passport, driver’s license, U.S. permanent resident card, medical records and my racing license all have an “F” on them. The Union Cycliste Internationale, USACycling, Cycling Canada, the Canadian and United States governments and the state of South Carolina all agree that I’m female.

Rhys is the pinnacle of intellectual dishonesty. He is all about forcing females into submission.
This is also a great example of the manipulation of the system that "Transwomen" have created.

To use their own terms - coming from a position of "privilege" as biological males, mostly white, these freaks have used their leverage in society and power to be able to manipulate the system to allow themselves to be declared "legally" female. Something that is wholly impossible.

The science knows that you cannot change from male to female. Ever. These troons have forced the system to accept their delusion though.

Even if they remove their dicks - they're still biologically male.
Even if they take all the piss hormones they like - still male.

This is exactly why they should be called Transgender. Gender isn't a tangible thing. It's a construct. Thus being Transgender is a construct, it's not tangible. This is exactly why we need to establish that biological markers cannot be changed. It's outrageous and fraud to change them. But here we are.

Calling them trans sexual would indicate that they have somehow changed their sex - which you cannot do.

The terminology needs to be enforced, but with so many tranny chasers, handmaidens and incels screeching, it seems like a very futile task unless we have very conservative law makers in.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Or genital mutilation. Amputation. Butchery.

I said castration because that's what was done to Turing , and most would agree that's wrong.

Troons love to attach themselves to coding and I think with s bit of wrangling you could call Turing the grandaddy of coding.

 

[AnOminous]

Biologically, you cannot change your sex. Since gender is a "Social construct" you can change that. It's not tangible, where as sex is tangible. It's something that can be observed, measured, cited and proved. Gender is "a feeling" or an association.

And as they are a social construct, the social constructs of some tiny subculture have no privileged status over the social constructs of the majority. In fact, the contrary is true. Troonery's ideas are no more deserving of deference or respect than religious beliefs or any other subjective nonsense.

I said castration because that's what was done to Turing , and most would agree that's wrong.

He was sentenced to hormones much like SRS. As a punishment for being gay. He was not actually physically castrated.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

So what would you call someone without dysphoria who gets HRT and SRS?

I'd like to point out that dysphoria can stem from many sources, many people aren't "born with it". Let's take this tranny I found the other day as an example. In this image, Ebony is clearly saying he is dysphoric:
View attachment 1035689

But then he goes and posts things which make it clear whatever dysphoria he may feel stems from a porn obsession:

Spoiler

View attachment 1035686View attachment 1035691View attachment 1035696

Saying that dysphoria and a desire to transition is all you need to be trans is still letting fetishists through the gates.

On a side note, this person is also transracial. He feels not only gender dysphoria but also racial dysphoria lol.

Spoiler

View attachment 1035703

Wait, I thought all weaves were ghetto.

 

[Lord Xenu]

But taking Estrogen, not working out, just being fat, letting your hair and tits grow is way easier than working out. I doubt just taking Testosterone without putting actual work into your body will make your muscles grow? Correct me if I'm wrong.
And there's still the (not just) Incel perception that women, no matter how ugly, can get everyone they want to have.

That was meant as more of a throwaway joke, but this kind of highlights the point I was trying to make.

No, exogenous testosterone doesn't just turn you into Dorian Yates. But it takes more than just estrogen and surgery to look like Blaire White (not someone I think passes really, but a popular contemporary example). Even if they're not interested in looking like an actual women it takes hours of dilating their bloody gashes every day sometimes for years, which I would argue is a lot more work and pain than just getting your act together.

Taking estrogen doesn't automatically transform you into an anime character, and the amount of effort (time, money, etc) it would take to turn an incel into an anime character is almost certainly harder than just working on your own mental health and getting in shape.

I spent a bit of time lurking at incel hangouts when I first heard the term (maybe a few years before it became a common MSM trope) and I would argue that the majority of these dudes just need to see a therapist and go outside more often. Even the pictures I have seen these dudes post (there was like incel rate-me subreddit or something like that before) are nowhere near as hideous as they seem to think they are. The superficial things that these guys believe are keeping them from getting laid are not nearly the obstacle it has become in their minds.

Really this is the reason that ostracizing and driving the incel communities underground is IMO a huge error in judgement.

 

[ProgKing of the North]

Really this is the reason that ostracizing and driving the incel communities underground is IMO a huge error in judgement.

Well that and it's a lot harder to make fun of them if I have to put effort into finding their rantings

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

One thing I want to add is that I think there's too much focus on the dysphoria/psychiatric cases (those that genuinely think they were born in the wrong body). And not so much in those that WANT to become female.

There is a huge difference.

I bet most non-dysphoria cases, like AGP, would be gone if people stopped idealizing and having an unrealistic idea of what's like to be female.

People that are just depressed, lonely, incels, and people with low self-esteem are being sold on the idea that they are suffering because being male is inherently inferior to being female. And that becoming female is a perfect state of Nirvana that will make them feel loved and happy.

That is wrong on so many levels.

Say if you listen to Narcissa Wright rants (who might me dysphoric but still), Narcissa has this idea that while as a male he had to make an effort to be likable, being female means that now he can treat others like crap by "being bitchy" and that someone HAS TO pamper him all the time, and pay all his bills just for being female.

They think that when they transition they will be incredibly beautiful, everyone will be after them, people will want to be their friends, and everyone will treat them like queens offering them all the money, time and attention in the world just for being cute. A celebrity kind of treatment that is rare even if you are a cis girl. And even then that just happens becuase guys want toget something.

Basically they think they will become a cute anime characters. Needless to say, reality hits them hard, but instead of accepting the truth, they think the fact that fantasy doesn't match reality is a tolerance issue and not a reality issue.

 

[💗Freddie Freaker💗]

No there aren't.

That depends on your definition of transgender. According to self ID rətards a little kid who says he feels like the opposite gender is automatically trans. Pretty sure a lot of normal people were once genderfluid trannies by that definition, though.

According to the "having dysphoria makes you trans" crew, a little kid who feels dysphoria because his parents enforce strict gender roles would probably count as a tranny too.

 

[heathercho]

I'm just going to x-post this here, so people are well aware that Troons think they're females.

This is why you don't let people with a mental illness change the terms of engagement.

 

[💗Freddie Freaker💗]

One thing I want to add is that I think there's too much focus on the dysphoria/psychiatric cases (those that genuinely think they were born in the wrong body).

Genuinely thinking you were born in the wrong body doesn't make it reality, just saying.

The dysphoric cases are as delusional as the others, imo.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

The dysphoric cases are as delusional as the others, imo.

Yeah, in the end, they are equally right about being what they are biologically. But I think it makes a difference in how to help them.

A psychiatric Dysphoric is beyond's anyone's help except for science and psychiatry, because that's how they were born as. Logic is meaningless given it's a brain issue. Just like any other huge psychiatric condition you can't just talk them out of it.

Say, like someone with Schizophrenia won't be cured just because you tell them those voices aren't real and you use logic and facts.

But those that are at their lowest and seek feminity as some kind of salvation can be reason with, I think.

Take this meme from r/egg_irl (a sub that tries to convince people to transition) for example

 

[💗Freddie Freaker💗]

Yeah, in the end, they are equally right about being what they are biologically. But I think it makes a difference in how to help them.

A psychiatric Dysphoric is beyond's anyone's help except for science and psychiatry, because that's how they were born as. Logic is meaningless given it's a brain issue. Just like any other huge psychiatric condition you can't just talk them out of it.

Say, like someone with Schizophrenia won't be cured just because you tell them those voices aren't real and you use logic and facts. When people say "we don't understand it fully," I think this is what they mean and they have a point.

But those that are at their lowest and seek feminity as some kind of salvation can be reason with, I think.

Take this meme from r/egg_irl (a sub that tries to convince people to transition) for example

View attachment 1039648

Notice they aren't saying "I was always a woman" or "I'm trapped in the wrong body". But it says "I wish I was one". They think femininity somehow will give them someting they lack in their lifes.

They want to become anime girls in real life:

View attachment 1039656

Which is completely a unrealistic expectation.

I bet the majority of dysphoric people were not born with it, tbh. Little kids who hate their genitals were usually abused.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

This discussion reminds me of something, people that support transgenderism say that Transwomen have similar brain activity to Ciswomen as justification to say they are the same, and I think I've seen someone linking to a study on Harvard about it, but I can't seem to find it.

Does anyone have thoughts on that?

 

[heathercho]

Food for thought.

I don't how much it's the result of abuse. But I've always thought, maybe wrongly, it was a condition some people were born with like most of what psychiatrists treat, things you can't just talk people out. If a person was born like that, that is they are dysphoric due to genetics, and their brain is different from birth there is little we, as lay people, can do.

To be perfectly honestly I don't know what truly causes psyquiatric disphoria. But you do bring a good point I hand't considered

That reminds me of something, people that support transgenderism say that Transwomen have similar brain activity to Ciswomen as justification to say they are the same, and I think I've seen someone linking to a study on Harvard about it, but I can't seem to find it.

Does anyone have thoughts on that?

Neuroscience of sex differences - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I hate citing Wiki, but yes, female and males have different brain structures. I think the studies show in Trans people that the likelihood of them having a female "brain" was limited to a very very select few - i.e the soft gays, like your Blaire Whites. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/ I.E most of the people were attracted to the same sex, in that Transwomen studied with "female" like brains, where attracted to men and Transmen were attracted to women.

They certainly wouldn't show any difference in your typical troon - those freaks are all Transbians.

Like Intersex people, the amount of true "transgender" people out there would be super small. These AGP's all have perfectly normal albeit perverted male sex drives.

This is why Self-ID should be outlawed tbh.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost]

No biological men are still men. Women are still women. And while I can respect someone who chooses to live in a particular way, male or female as long as they are actually committed to the idea and don't have any expectations aside from the very basics of civility I'm fine with tolerating their existence.

Toleration being the word, I would never embrace, encourage, or be a so called ally to any transperson of my acquaintance. I will never stand up for any cause outside of something that is a deep human injustice, IE real state or religious persecution, because that is my own personal moral code. But as far as support for the trans community goes I have none. The majority of them have a mental illness/disassociation that goes far beyond gender and has much more to do with actual identity than anything else.

I've known a few tranvestites in my time, only one who actually passed was female to male and that was because they worked at it. Ironically because they weren't able to find anyone in the dating pool outside of gay men, they actually ended up meeting and marrying a male to female and I rib that particular individual sometimes in good humor that they are a traditional heterosexual couple. He/she is a bit of a personal lolcow because of how many years he spent as a "gay man with a vagina" but generally not a bad person, just in the alphabet mafia mindset.

The others have classically been middle aged men, usually under achievers, balding and overweight, with the exception of one who is tall and lanky and so essentially the slenderman style of tranny, as opposed to the fat internet denizen types like Jonathan Yaniv. All of them love to harp on how they identify as trans, but only one of them actually has a job, the others are on disability or welfare, so take from that what you will.

I also think the phenomenon of parents creating transexual children seems to be some sort of sick upper middle class yuppy fad, it's usually the mother that instigates it in many cases, so that automatically red flags it for me, that the mothers are often the main source of these trans kids. In particular I remember a story about this poor Australian kid who is now a legal adult and because his mother forced him into conversion therapy by giving him estrogen pills prescribed for her, etc, he's basically a male personality now with non-functioning shrunken genitalia. The mother of course is unapologetic, and the father who was divorced from her has nothing to do with the situation, because he objected. (I believe there is a similar sort of deal going on in Texas with a mother forcing transgenderism on their child, seemingly motivate to get revenge on the husband.) Whatever the reason, well meaning, or the sort of fad that led parents in the 2000's to name their children Stop Sign or Apple, it really needs to be questioned where and why is this being pushed on the general public.

I also think in terms of the Australian kid being the first case, and now there being a de-transitioning centre being set up in the North of England by an ex-tranny. We are going to see in the next 10 - 15 years a small minority of people who will be seeking some sort of punitive action against the state, schools, and their parents for their early transition before the age of consent.

Also in the case of children any castration argument aside, because that is a genuine health defect that comes with hormonal therapy, there is also the added health risks that are either never discussed or thrown aside because of the progressive argument, mainly childhood osteoporosis and onset adult development problems caused by puberty blockers, which can lead to crippling life long health issues as a result.

Then you have the issues of transwomen in sports, and as much as I love the idea of feminists being forced to eat their words and reap what they sow, if you weren't born as a biological female, or genuinely intersex but feminine fine, anything else should be banned or placed in their own category, end of story.