Why Incels are the losers in the age of Tinder - Sympathy For the Sperginity

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Archive is fucking shit
As a society we still judge men who don’t have sex as failures
BY James Bloodworth



In the past year or so the word ‘Incel’ has become a ubiquitous online insult. Short for Involuntary Celibate, it was popularised by men who appropriated the label for themselves. The Incel community is overwhelmingly male (and growing) and to be an Incel (technically at least) is to have not had sex for six months or more.


As so the word has gradually crept into the vocabulary of every internet troll — partly I suspect because we still judge people by how much sex they have, or not in this case. We still view men who don’t have sex as failures in some way.


Incels are therefore an easy target. For men, calling someone an Incel implies something positive — a certain sexual abundance — about one’s own existence. For women it has begun to function as a putdown that ruthlessly dismisses unworthy suitors while simultaneously expelling them from the community of the good as misogynistic and creepy.


In the past decade there has been a three-fold increase in the number of men who have not had sex in the past year. In 2018 the Southern Poverty Law Centre added Incels to their ‘Hate Map’, describing them as “part of the online male supremacist eco-system”. Countless articles have appeared in the media equating inceldom with “toxic masculinity”, misogyny and violence. Most begin from the assumption that Incel ideology, so far as it exists, is a product of men’s domination over women. It is a backlash against feminism; the whingeing of men who have been taught by the tyrannical patriarchy to believe they are entitled to ownership of women’s bodies.


There is invariably some truth to this. The rise of the online ‘Manosphere’ is a reassertion by men of traditional gender roles from which they benefitted immensely. The most notorious Incels, who have gone on murderous rampages, have indeed been narcissistic and entitled men. Elliot Rodger was a 22-year-old Incel who murdered seven people in Isla Vista, California, in 2014. Rodger epitomised entitled masculinity. Shortly before Rodger carried about the massacre, Dale Launer, a friend of Rodger’s father, gave the boy some not terrible advice for building relationships with women on his college campus. Rodger’s response is revealing. As Launer recounted to the BBC:

“As I told him, ‘When you see a woman next time you’re on campus and you like her hair or sunglasses, just pay her a compliment.’ I told him, ‘It’s a freebie, something in passing, you’re not trying to make conversation. Keep walking, don’t make any long eye contact, just give the free compliment.’ The idea being you might make a friend if you make someone feel good.


“I said to Elliot, ‘In the next few weeks — if you see them they’ll likely give you a smile — and you can smile back and eventually turn this into chit-chat.’


“I got in touch with him a few weeks later and asked if he did it. He said ‘no’. And when asked why not, he said, ‘Why do I have to compliment them? Why don’t they compliment me?’” [emphasis mine]

Rodger felt superior to others and referred to a “Day of Retribution” when he would kill those he was envious of — ‘Chads’, men who sleep with lots of women, and ‘Staceys’, feminine and attractive — as well as those who did not see the value he believed he possessed. He probably had a narcissistic personality disorder.


However Rodger was an outlier. Most Incels are non-violent and use the forums they frequent as a support group, a place to vent — often toxically — against a society which they feel has rejected them (at least when it comes to intimacy). It is this which inceldom is largely concerned with: intimacy rather than sex. Most have given up on dating entirely. Some embrace an ideology they call the Black Pill — a spin-off the red and blue pills from The Matrix — which contains misogynistic tenets but adherence to which is not a requirement to be an Incel. The Blue Pill is the existing state of blissful ignorance; the Red Pill seeks to understand the system and manipulate it to its advantage; those who take the Black Pill accept the Red Pill’s tenets about women and society but resign themselves to a life of frustration and alienation.

Black pill ideology is often misogynistic and occasionally deadly. According to the Black Pill women are shallow and driven entirely by hypergamy — that’s to say the desire to hook up with a man of superior status to themselves whether in terms of looks, money or power. As with several other Black Pill assumptions there is an element of truth to this: women do tend to date “up”. However the Black Pill takes this concept to its deterministic absolute: on the forums Incels obsess over height and looks as if nobody who isn’t 6ft 4in with a six pack ever gets a date.


This is undoubtedly a convenient rationalisation for some. It’s easier to sit at home on the internet and lament the callousness and superficiality of wider society than it is to begin the long and arduous process required to become a more attractive man.


But the dating scene of 2020 is also radically different to the dating scene of twenty years ago, and this is a factor behind the growing number of Incels. The decline of traditional marriage has played a part. In the past there was greater societal pressure on women to ‘settle’ with men who they may not have been in love with or even sexually attracted to. The concept of arranged marriage, still popular in eastern cultures, where people pair up on the basis of suitability, is significantly different to our modern, Hollywood-style conception of idealised pairing on the basis of sexual attraction and finding ‘The One’.


Women are the sexual selectors on modern dating apps, where men are abundant and therefore of lower sexual market value (SMV). A friend and I ran an experiment on Tinder last year where we set up a profile purporting to be an attractive woman. In less than 24-hours the profile ran up over 2,000 matches. Tinder and similar apps are effective for the stereotypically good looking male. But the majority of men make do with few matches, often with women they are not attracted to. A recent study of Tinder found that “the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men”.


As I recently noted for UnHerd, our promiscuous culture bends toward the Pareto principle, also known as the 80/20 rule whereby 20% of men date 80% of women. I wrote: “Women compete over the most desirable men, while the rest are increasingly turning towards porn and — before long, no doubt — sex robots.”


The sexual revolution and the gradual erosion of the pressure to settle down (what Jordan Peterson has referred to as “socially enforced monogamy”) has encouraged women (quite reasonably) to seek out the best partners for themselves. Some men refuse to reconcile themselves to this new reality. Others struggle in a digital dating environment where superficial qualities are prized to an extent that was not true in the past. In the world of online dating, which is how 40% of couples in the United States meet, looks, height and social status are usually pre-requisites for matching with someone at all.


Offline, many Incels lack the basic social skills required to navigate relations with the opposite sex. According to an internal poll carried out on the website Incels.co, 26% of users of the forum said they had some form of autism. Flirting, which requires an innate understanding of nuanced sub-communications and unspoken sexual tension, does not come naturally to these men.


Moreover, mainstream dating advice for men is useless at the best of times and consists largely of feel-good bromides (often written by women) extolling men to ‘just be yourself’ or to let ‘fate’ take care of it. Real-life dating coaching, which takes clients out into bars and clubs in order to learn how to interact with women in a non-platonic way, is laughed at by the mainstream and dominated by charlatans calling themselves ‘pickup artists’.


Inceldom touches a nerve in wider society, which I suspect is why we have few conversations about it. All of us treat people differently on the basis of their physical appearance, however altruistic we may believe ourselves to be. As a recent article in Vice, which drew on a comprehensive body of research, noted: “Attractive people are generally assumed to be more intelligent, more trustworthy, and have better social skills.”


We shy away from talking honestly about this because to do so would be to acknowledge that there are some areas where true ‘equality’ — the ideal we strive for in most areas of political life — is unattainable when it comes to hooking up. The topic of sex and dating is already a minefield where egos swim amidst the unspoken and adversarial mating strategies deployed by men and women. There is very little altruism and equality when it comes to finding a mate. The sexual act is discriminatory by definition.


And it is leaving increasing numbers of men on the scrapheap. Some identify ideologically as Incels out of frustration. Some out of entitlement. Many seek to blame women’s supposedly unrealistic standards for their inability to form an intimate relationship. For others the situation is still more complex.


Incels arguably have something in common with the Japanese hikikomori, defined by Japan’s Health, Labour and Welfare Ministry as those who have “remained isolated at home for at least six consecutive months without going to school or work, and rarely interact with people from outside their immediate family”. Japan has around one million hikikomori.


Inceldom fits within a broader trend towards alienation and reclusive behaviour in modern societies, fostered by technology, changing dating preferences and — among other things — easy access to pornography. We don’t have our own hikikomori problem in the west just yet, but Incels are a growing phenomenon that society would do well to better understand — even if that is less satisfying than throwing the word around as an online insult.
 
Whenever I hear "incel" shit I just don't get it, its a catch 22 so you involuntarily choose to not have sex? Just get a prostitute there is no excuse. It's not that fucking expensive just get a whore, if you don't then what we are talking about is people so lazy to get fucked they are celibate.

The term is not well-defined at all, which is part of the problem. If it's just about involuntarily being celibate, does it only apply to virgins or to any person who wants to have sex but cannot at a particular point in time? Most would agree that the latter would not be sufficient to label someone an incel, so there needs to be some kind of ideological aspect to it, in addition to not having sex. But if one of those "true" incels has sex by going to a prostitute or by a stroke of luck, will they cease to be an incel? Not really I suppose. Imagine if Elliot Rodger spent his money on a whore instead of the lottery, would anything really change in his mindset?

It's just such a buzzword at this point, I can't hear it anymore.
 
, they're not entirely wrong about the underlying problem. Namely that modern courtship and gender dynamics are FUCKING AWFUL.
I would agree with that actually. In order to meet people you might eventually have a thing with, you should have some kind of healthy way of meeting, interacting and checking each other out. Work/university/college/social settings which enabled that have changed and not for the better. Men now have the spectre of harassment hanging over them if they strike up a conversation someone objects to. College is time limited and generally a younger crowd and everyone is so bloody woke and demonising the opposite sex.
What really strikes me about the modern environment is how much so many of each sex are downright scared of each other. Women are encouraged to see all men as rapacious and violent potential abusers. Men get all this stuff about women being Shallow gold diggers. Awful men exist and awful women do, but most people are alright.
Why are we all so set against each other? Maybe social media amplifies our fears and reinforces our thoughts and stereotypes because we all hang out in little echo chambers? . It all seems so unhealthy, overly serious and political at every step.
 
The thing I noticed about some incels is that they kind of have an Outsider Looking-In Syndrome

Let me explain.

You have these people who have every means to be able to get a girl (Or a guy), with certain modifications to their overall being they could easily have a good relationship with a girl.

That would be the end of it, if it weren't for that fact that they have major narcissism and a lack of self awareness (Which may or may not be involved with the narcissism), there may or may not be a ball of mental illnesses in there as well.

When they obviously come off as an asshole to a girl and they tell them

"no"

This sends their minds into overdrive, "What? Did you just tell me no?".

Their mind can't understand this as due part from the narcissism, so their mind ends up creating a strawman, the 'Chad' and the 'Stacy', in order to explain this unexplainable circumstance of a girl refusing their advances.

They see this strawman (Chad) getting the girls, they see this strawman (Stacy) fucking everything in existence BESIDES them. They convince themselves that the world is this black and white due to their lack of self awareness, and they see themselves completely detached from this possibility, almost like an outsider.

It's as if they are outside a glass box peering at these strawmen doing what they do, convincing themselves that they can't break the glass box and enter that world, or that they shouldn't have to, it is beneath them and the Stacies should be the ones who have to. (See: Narcissism and lack of self awareness)
 
To be fair, as much social pressure as there is around virginity, most guys are going insane for pussy in their teens. I don't think I was driven so much by being perceived as a virgin as I was by raging hormones.
Catharsis 02.png
 
The term is not well-defined at all, which is part of the problem. If it's just about involuntarily being celibate, does it only apply to virgins or to any person who wants to have sex but cannot at a particular point in time? Most would agree that the latter would not be sufficient to label someone an incel, so there needs to be some kind of ideological aspect to it, in addition to not having sex. But if one of those "true" incels has sex by going to a prostitute or by a stroke of luck, will they cease to be an incel? Not really I suppose. Imagine if Elliot Rodger spent his money on a whore instead of the lottery, would anything really change in his mindset?

It's just such a buzzword at this point, I can't hear it anymore.
The media has over-hyped this shit for years now, most of these words have lost their meaning: Racist, Nazi, Cuck, Incel, White Supremacist. It's all dogwhistle bullshit used as blanket condemnation while barely scratching the real issue.

Pretty sure they rolled all those words up into the "Gamer" class, too.
 
That describes Ted Bundy, doesn't it?

Pretty much. Mass Murderers, Serial Killers, Sociopaths, you name it. He had to lie and manipulate to get what he wanted, and was the consummate narcissist.

I'll add a caveat for the truly unfortunate snake eyes: it's truly hard to be completely hopeless. A boy born without any limbs can grow up into this:

iu


Now, he's somewhat famous as a Christian preacher, and he's not that bad looking beyond his deformities, but he had to work for those positive qualities. I would bet my left kidney that 95% of incels with genuine bad luck still had it better than this guy.

So, yes, some people are born with the cards stacked against them. It's possible to help most, if not, all of them, with enough care and persistence. You'd have to be as autistic and unrepentant as Chris Chan to be a lost cause, and even then... Chris Chan has his obsessive stalkers.

I mean, when I said snake eyes, I truly meant it. The guy isn't ugly and I'm sure he has a great personality. So while sure, he is disabled, he doesn't really fall under my definition. I mean, I guess he could have went the bitter route but he didn't.

Easy access to pornography of every variety doesn't cause "incels" but it does cause people who might otherwise bother overcoming their social inadequacies to say fuck it and just not bother going outside. This isn't really incels, though, who are utterly obsessed with their inability to get laid and place an inordinate degree of importance on it.

These would be hikikomori and MGTOW types, and others who just decided the trade-off of putting up with women's bullshit isn't worth it for what they have to offer.



These are the only ones I feel any sympathy for at all. These people quite simply never had a chance. They may end up just as bitter and nihilistic as the rest of the incels whose problems are mainly their own faults but unlike those, they really didn't have a choice about their outcome. They lack the ability to do anything that would have made things turn out much better.



This is your Elliott Rodger. Maybe he was a slightly weird looking hapa but he was definitely attractive enough to score. He had the sort of sensual, if somewhat aloof look that paired with the right clothing and carrying himself the right way could have been rock star tier. At least the hybristophile chicks seem to think so. You would have seen this kind of look in emo bands. And his parents were loaded and adequately generous with him. And they were placed in the Hollywood scene.

He would have had access to all the social connections he needed, all the money he needed to look like a good catch, and reasonably good looks.

And instead he was Elliott fucking Rodger.

Pretty much the first two, yeah. There's no doubt that some of them are going to end up bitter and upset, but that's par for the course, but a lot of the times its just out of their hands.

And yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of. There are plenty of these types around. They're the truly dangerous 'incel'. They don't fit the media's bill, but that arrogance, narcissism and sense of entitlement with all the advantages makes someone very dangerous.
 
There was a greentext story I read way back.
Since it was the Chan could be head splurge but I bought it.

Was about the OP getting setup from his father with an attractive colleague of him.
Father let him alone with her, and he didn't talk to her at all.
After a while she goes away and his father flips his shit.
OP didn't know how to smalltalk let alone show interest in someone. (which is their main problem I believe, and why they turn poisonous towards women especially. )
Sounds pretty believable to me.

And to the term incel. Since the c stands for celibate in the abbreviation I'd argue if you have 100+ $ in your account you are voluntary celibate.
 
Christ if these dudes stop trying to nail 8/10 whores and settled on 3/10's which will your suck dick like an ocean undertoe just to keep you happy even losers can get their dick wet.

Lower your expectations till you get what you want THEN starting the process of exceeding them. Unrealistic and impossible standards won't get anyone what they want no matter what fucking inspiration book idiots read.

Also stop looking at porn, real women aren't porn models, won't fuck like porn models, and sure as shit won't give you the time of day.
 
Lower your expectations till you get what you want THEN starting the process of exceeding them. Unrealistic and impossible standards won't get anyone what they want no matter what fucking inspiration book idiots read.

Or if you choose not to do that, quit blaming the world for something you chose voluntarily. It's not some injustice done to you.
 
Incels cause a sort of visceral reaction in me of either disgust or pity. Must be the type of Incel. I look at some of them and think: "Fuck yeah, and STAY out of the gene pool, you sick fucker", but then there are a lot that it seems pretty sad. Fundamentally decent guys who are just damaged and could use a bit of human intimacy more than most of us to help them become less damaged, but are too fucked up by the lack to be able to do anything about it. And the derision they get certianly can't help anything.

I can sort of get the MGTOW thing, though. It still seems kind of exceptional, but I'm sure many of us know guys who have gone through divorces that totally assraped them and they want nothing to do with women any more. That I can get. Or even someone too worried about being saddled with an unwanted kid, or maybe a false rape charge. Not the way I'd go, but I can understand guys who do that.

Not planning on kids, at least not at the moment.

Casual sex with my wife is pretty nice.
Can confirm. Casual sex with your wife is pretty good.
 
I recall a friend joking about frequently trolling the incel communities on reddit, mocking their pathetic lives. I asked him if he enjoyed creating school shooters. We don't talk much any more. In retrospect, it's not really his fault that they're such easy targets. I do suspect some in that community are a few steps from going Rodger, with the right encouragement.
 
Incels cause a sort of visceral reaction in me of either disgust or pity. Must be the type of Incel. I look at some of them and think: "Fuck yeah, and STAY out of the gene pool, you sick fucker", but then there are a lot that it seems pretty sad.

Much of this incel bullshit is completely normal thinking for a bitter teenage male who is less than Chad. But now instead of maybe writing some edgy poetry and dressing like Robert Smith from The Cure and then eventually getting laid and getting over it, these people join online idiot cults who tell them their adolescent bullshit is some kind of super red pill wisdom, and reinforce their maladaptive behaviors.
 
Former friend of mine is an Incel. He doesn't look too bad, but he's got a list of standards longer than a sperm whale's dick and somehow expects this magical woman to fix his every mental issue because he doesn't want to see a therapist. At that point I don't feel very sympathetic about his feel when no gf.

Honestly just get these guys some fucking therapy.
 
This is all bullshit. First off, why on earth would you make remarks on someone's appearance unless you know them really well? It's just plain weird to tell someone they look good if you don't know them at least a bit beforehand. But also I certainly don't believe that you could get slapped with harassment charges either from doing that, claiming such is just hyperbole.

On the other hand, what you say about the shallowness of our age is also bullshit. In the past, when people who are now in retirement age were in the mating age, it was completely common to make decisions of getting married with someone based purely on their looks. My mother was attracted to my fathers height and posture. Another old relative of mine told once that the decisive factor in choosing her husband was that the man had beatiful eyes. And these aren't singular cases amongst their age-group. Imagine not only getting to serious relationship with someone based on their looks alone, but getting married with all it legally implies. If that's not shallow and dumb as fuck, I don't know what is, and at least no-one of my age is that fucking stupid nowadays.

World is full of people. Finding someone to fuck or even have a relationship is completely up to you, and whining about just shows that you deserve to be alone. Not a single person I know who really has wanted to get laid or to find permanent companion has failed in doing so, the ones who do don't even really try.
I wasn't thinking so much of complementing a total stranger, but in hindsight I can see how that might not be clear from context. I was thinking more along the lines of someone you kinda sorta know, kinda sorta like, and might want to pursue a relationship with. Now you can say that's still dangerous territory, and maybe it is, but it's a pretty sad commentary on society if that's the case. And yeah, I'm exaggerating a little on the sexual harassment thing, but you get my point.

And while humans looking at looks first obviously isn't a new development, it's being emphasized like never before. When meeting a new person in real life, there's physical appearance, but there's also the way they talk and carry themselves and all kinds of subtleties that can't be captured in a photograph. On Tinder, a picture is ALL YOU GET at first.
 
Everyone quoting that 20/80 statistic is a crybaby who doesn't understand surveys. That's a survey of women on tinder; not a representative cross-section of society. Beyond that, people will sometimes answer questions in theory but wouldn't actually follow that in practice.

Women might prefer more handsome men (who doesn't prefer attractive partners?) but that doesn't translate into the real world all of the time. Women also like smart men, funny men, strong men, artistic men, the list goes on.

TLDR if you're quoting that survey you're a man child.
 
Much of this incel bullshit is completely normal thinking for a bitter teenage male who is less than Chad. But now instead of maybe writing some edgy poetry and dressing like Robert Smith from The Cure and then eventually getting laid and getting over it, these people join online idiot cults who tell them their adolescent bullshit is some kind of super red pill wisdom, and reinforce their maladaptive behaviors.

It's the mirror image to your modern feminist, they are similarly disgruntled types who in better days would have been forced to get over their bullshit but can network with each other online and reinforce one another.
 
Everyone quoting that 20/80 statistic is a crybaby who doesn't understand surveys. That's a survey of women on tinder; not a representative cross-section of society. Beyond that, people will sometimes answer questions in theory but wouldn't actually follow that in practice.

Women might prefer more handsome men (who doesn't prefer attractive partners?) but that doesn't translate into the real world all of the time. Women also like smart men, funny men, strong men, artistic men, the list goes on.

TLDR if you're quoting that survey you're a man child.

Remember. There will always be a desperate bitch who will fuck you and get herself preggo.

Just....be ready for divorce.
 
People keep asking "why don't incels just get prostitutes?" I think it's because for most incels the sex is not as much about the physical act as much as it is about the fact that getting a girl to voluntarily have sex with them is validation that they are not a loser. They think that getting a prostitute would be cheating.

Also I agree with everyone saying that they need to lower their standards. These incels say things like "My standards are realistic, I just want the girl next door, not a supermodel or porn star." But they are so sheltered that they don't realize that in the USA over 40% of women are obese and that their idea of an average woman and what is really an average woman are two very different things.
 
Also I agree with everyone saying that they need to lower their standards. These incels say things like "My standards are realistic, I just want the girl next door, not a supermodel or porn star."

And by "girl next door" they mean the character played in some movie by Ellen Page, who is also a virgin, and despite this, will willingly do every deviant thing they've ever seen in porn, and on top of that, will put up with some fat, greasy, neckbearded fuck with a completely repulsive personality who is willing to do absolutely nothing to deserve them.
 
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