Why Incels are the losers in the age of Tinder - Sympathy For the Sperginity

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Archive is fucking shit
As a society we still judge men who don’t have sex as failures
BY James Bloodworth



In the past year or so the word ‘Incel’ has become a ubiquitous online insult. Short for Involuntary Celibate, it was popularised by men who appropriated the label for themselves. The Incel community is overwhelmingly male (and growing) and to be an Incel (technically at least) is to have not had sex for six months or more.


As so the word has gradually crept into the vocabulary of every internet troll — partly I suspect because we still judge people by how much sex they have, or not in this case. We still view men who don’t have sex as failures in some way.


Incels are therefore an easy target. For men, calling someone an Incel implies something positive — a certain sexual abundance — about one’s own existence. For women it has begun to function as a putdown that ruthlessly dismisses unworthy suitors while simultaneously expelling them from the community of the good as misogynistic and creepy.


In the past decade there has been a three-fold increase in the number of men who have not had sex in the past year. In 2018 the Southern Poverty Law Centre added Incels to their ‘Hate Map’, describing them as “part of the online male supremacist eco-system”. Countless articles have appeared in the media equating inceldom with “toxic masculinity”, misogyny and violence. Most begin from the assumption that Incel ideology, so far as it exists, is a product of men’s domination over women. It is a backlash against feminism; the whingeing of men who have been taught by the tyrannical patriarchy to believe they are entitled to ownership of women’s bodies.


There is invariably some truth to this. The rise of the online ‘Manosphere’ is a reassertion by men of traditional gender roles from which they benefitted immensely. The most notorious Incels, who have gone on murderous rampages, have indeed been narcissistic and entitled men. Elliot Rodger was a 22-year-old Incel who murdered seven people in Isla Vista, California, in 2014. Rodger epitomised entitled masculinity. Shortly before Rodger carried about the massacre, Dale Launer, a friend of Rodger’s father, gave the boy some not terrible advice for building relationships with women on his college campus. Rodger’s response is revealing. As Launer recounted to the BBC:

“As I told him, ‘When you see a woman next time you’re on campus and you like her hair or sunglasses, just pay her a compliment.’ I told him, ‘It’s a freebie, something in passing, you’re not trying to make conversation. Keep walking, don’t make any long eye contact, just give the free compliment.’ The idea being you might make a friend if you make someone feel good.


“I said to Elliot, ‘In the next few weeks — if you see them they’ll likely give you a smile — and you can smile back and eventually turn this into chit-chat.’


“I got in touch with him a few weeks later and asked if he did it. He said ‘no’. And when asked why not, he said, ‘Why do I have to compliment them? Why don’t they compliment me?’” [emphasis mine]

Rodger felt superior to others and referred to a “Day of Retribution” when he would kill those he was envious of — ‘Chads’, men who sleep with lots of women, and ‘Staceys’, feminine and attractive — as well as those who did not see the value he believed he possessed. He probably had a narcissistic personality disorder.


However Rodger was an outlier. Most Incels are non-violent and use the forums they frequent as a support group, a place to vent — often toxically — against a society which they feel has rejected them (at least when it comes to intimacy). It is this which inceldom is largely concerned with: intimacy rather than sex. Most have given up on dating entirely. Some embrace an ideology they call the Black Pill — a spin-off the red and blue pills from The Matrix — which contains misogynistic tenets but adherence to which is not a requirement to be an Incel. The Blue Pill is the existing state of blissful ignorance; the Red Pill seeks to understand the system and manipulate it to its advantage; those who take the Black Pill accept the Red Pill’s tenets about women and society but resign themselves to a life of frustration and alienation.

Black pill ideology is often misogynistic and occasionally deadly. According to the Black Pill women are shallow and driven entirely by hypergamy — that’s to say the desire to hook up with a man of superior status to themselves whether in terms of looks, money or power. As with several other Black Pill assumptions there is an element of truth to this: women do tend to date “up”. However the Black Pill takes this concept to its deterministic absolute: on the forums Incels obsess over height and looks as if nobody who isn’t 6ft 4in with a six pack ever gets a date.


This is undoubtedly a convenient rationalisation for some. It’s easier to sit at home on the internet and lament the callousness and superficiality of wider society than it is to begin the long and arduous process required to become a more attractive man.


But the dating scene of 2020 is also radically different to the dating scene of twenty years ago, and this is a factor behind the growing number of Incels. The decline of traditional marriage has played a part. In the past there was greater societal pressure on women to ‘settle’ with men who they may not have been in love with or even sexually attracted to. The concept of arranged marriage, still popular in eastern cultures, where people pair up on the basis of suitability, is significantly different to our modern, Hollywood-style conception of idealised pairing on the basis of sexual attraction and finding ‘The One’.


Women are the sexual selectors on modern dating apps, where men are abundant and therefore of lower sexual market value (SMV). A friend and I ran an experiment on Tinder last year where we set up a profile purporting to be an attractive woman. In less than 24-hours the profile ran up over 2,000 matches. Tinder and similar apps are effective for the stereotypically good looking male. But the majority of men make do with few matches, often with women they are not attracted to. A recent study of Tinder found that “the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men”.


As I recently noted for UnHerd, our promiscuous culture bends toward the Pareto principle, also known as the 80/20 rule whereby 20% of men date 80% of women. I wrote: “Women compete over the most desirable men, while the rest are increasingly turning towards porn and — before long, no doubt — sex robots.”


The sexual revolution and the gradual erosion of the pressure to settle down (what Jordan Peterson has referred to as “socially enforced monogamy”) has encouraged women (quite reasonably) to seek out the best partners for themselves. Some men refuse to reconcile themselves to this new reality. Others struggle in a digital dating environment where superficial qualities are prized to an extent that was not true in the past. In the world of online dating, which is how 40% of couples in the United States meet, looks, height and social status are usually pre-requisites for matching with someone at all.


Offline, many Incels lack the basic social skills required to navigate relations with the opposite sex. According to an internal poll carried out on the website Incels.co, 26% of users of the forum said they had some form of autism. Flirting, which requires an innate understanding of nuanced sub-communications and unspoken sexual tension, does not come naturally to these men.


Moreover, mainstream dating advice for men is useless at the best of times and consists largely of feel-good bromides (often written by women) extolling men to ‘just be yourself’ or to let ‘fate’ take care of it. Real-life dating coaching, which takes clients out into bars and clubs in order to learn how to interact with women in a non-platonic way, is laughed at by the mainstream and dominated by charlatans calling themselves ‘pickup artists’.


Inceldom touches a nerve in wider society, which I suspect is why we have few conversations about it. All of us treat people differently on the basis of their physical appearance, however altruistic we may believe ourselves to be. As a recent article in Vice, which drew on a comprehensive body of research, noted: “Attractive people are generally assumed to be more intelligent, more trustworthy, and have better social skills.”


We shy away from talking honestly about this because to do so would be to acknowledge that there are some areas where true ‘equality’ — the ideal we strive for in most areas of political life — is unattainable when it comes to hooking up. The topic of sex and dating is already a minefield where egos swim amidst the unspoken and adversarial mating strategies deployed by men and women. There is very little altruism and equality when it comes to finding a mate. The sexual act is discriminatory by definition.


And it is leaving increasing numbers of men on the scrapheap. Some identify ideologically as Incels out of frustration. Some out of entitlement. Many seek to blame women’s supposedly unrealistic standards for their inability to form an intimate relationship. For others the situation is still more complex.


Incels arguably have something in common with the Japanese hikikomori, defined by Japan’s Health, Labour and Welfare Ministry as those who have “remained isolated at home for at least six consecutive months without going to school or work, and rarely interact with people from outside their immediate family”. Japan has around one million hikikomori.


Inceldom fits within a broader trend towards alienation and reclusive behaviour in modern societies, fostered by technology, changing dating preferences and — among other things — easy access to pornography. We don’t have our own hikikomori problem in the west just yet, but Incels are a growing phenomenon that society would do well to better understand — even if that is less satisfying than throwing the word around as an online insult.
 
That society won't last long, when the replacement rate drops down to 0.000000001%.

How would that happen? All the breeding females would be producing offspring on the regular. This is how warlike states in early history used polygamy to deal with the scarcity of males, who usually died young.
 
How would that happen? All the breeding females would be producing offspring on the regular. This is how warlike states in early history used polygamy to deal with the scarcity of males, who usually died young.
My comment was in response to the idea that sexual relationships will devolve to harems where only a single alpha male has access to females.

In Lion Prides, alphas come in and murder children of all the females. That's the most likely parallel.
 
There was this one girl I had a huge, long-term crush on in high school. One day I give her a compliment on how nice she looks. She responds by saying, "Are you giving compliments to everyone today?"

I don't know what she meant by that - it was a really weird response - and it didn't effect my confidence, but I lost all my attraction towards her in an instant. Felt a coldness towards her from that point on. It's not rude to reject somebody, even to do so bluntly. It is very rude to mock/reject a compliment.

That’s the reason why you never dated her, because you were too afraid to ask her out. She saw that you attempted to flirt with her so she tried to further the conversation by responding to it but you got offended and shut down the conversation instead of further flirting and/or asking her out.
 
How on earth some on here could ever sympathize with these kind of people is beyond me. They revel in being the sexual outcasts because it incites them to become deadbeats, or a typical “Mr. Nice Guy” sex pest two steps short of an arrest warrant.
Depends on the demographic. Lotta younger teens on Reddit and other social cesspits might be drawn into the incel "philosophy" if they're fat, nerdy, and otherwise anti-social. The ones who are way past undergrad and still jettisoning common sense for "FUCK WAHMENS" wholesale are lost causes, but I'd rather some of the less-developed not become another statistic for constitutional 2A arguments because righteous internet people were too busy coaxing them to do a flip.
 
From what I gather from the kids these days the ol' 80/20 split is outdated, now it's more like 90/10 or even 95/5. With toys and porn, guys are starting to realize early in their teens that sex is about the only thing women bring to the table while expecting unfettered access to their funds and time. It's terrifying hearing about this generation of teens that watched their classmates get on tinder at 14 and enter the casual sex dating pool while playing 'grown up' with college students. It's not at all uncommon to have 20+ partners under their belt by 20 years old if you're in a college town. I listen to these guys that I would expect to be a catch, being in school, from money, in shape, no weird face issues, and they have little interest from women because they aren't the absolute top. Girls don't seem to understand that they aren't keeping the attention permanently, all the one-off dates are a fuck session, no mas. They tend to think that every dude that swipes right on them wants to marry them for the rest of time and raise 8 kids while letting them be a stay at home mom, but the guy just goes for statistic opportunities. I come away from these chats thinking about how insanely fucked our society is in less than 20 years, but we won't know it for another two generations.

The family unit is irreparably destroyed at the ground floor, and once the sex bots get here the rampant pussy inflation will finally pop and hopefully normalize. Relations between the genders are extremely polarized, to the point that near segregation is taking place on campuses unless you are one of this odd clique of 10% playboys. Even being nice to girls is taken as sexual interest, which can lead to a stranger exploiting the power dynamic to burn you pretty bad if you aren't hunky enough. I'm not even that much older than these kids, but it's like their grew up on the moon when they talk about dating experiences. Between the super herpes outbreak going around, aids, and the ghost of child support incels are the chubby, smart investors these days. Make it through your 20's without getting told you're a baby daddy or finding out you were listed as a father and owe back child support for a kid that ain't even yours and tell me how lame the incels were.

Then again, I'm around a pretty raunchy party school in a snowbird town, so maybe we have a higher percentage of unwatched, wealthy kids running around going crazy.

I'd definitely assign some blame to tinder, if only because it leads people to believe they have more sexual capital than they really do. Look at the amount of fat girls that are 5'4", 175 lbs, short hair, acne ridden, that still think they can swing a calvin klein underwear model in medical school. The guys get carried away to an extent but they tend to stay more grounded and bat in their league. Girls swing for the rafters and chances are there's always someone horny who just wants a minimum-effort assblastin' for the night.

Social media had ravaged any semblance of a healthy dating relationship for most people. For your average girl, her boyfriend isn't for her, he's a status symbol that she uses to compare and contrast against her peers. Everything he does, good or bad, is broadcasted to her circle and hugbox to be evaluated and judged against a perceived ideal. It's hard enough dating one person, try dating a committee and see how long you last. Add in a crazy level of entitlement where you have a roommate that doesn't clean up after themselves, do laundry, or clean, (because that's old fashioned, get with the program, I'm not some housewife) that exists solely for you to pamper and gift and anyone will go crazy. Look at dumb reddit threads around valentines for all kinds of stories where a guy did something he thought was romantic, but it wasn't public enough, so it got him in the doghouse. It's all about showmanship these days, not connection.

Tinder ties back into that because the guy is infinitely replaceable. If he's 26, working through residency, but his hairline starts to recede, she thinks she can swap him right out for someone even better at the snap of her fingers. He's always walking on eggshells like a min wage worker at walmart because he's just a cog.
 
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My experience being a ghost there is the latter given the kind of lolcow single mothers we are talking about....

View attachment 1153819
Speaking of single mother Tinder lolcows (pardon the triple repetition): Trannies and gentlemen, I think I just found the perfect match for our glorious Errverrlord.

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From what I gather from the kids these days the ol' 80/20 split is outdated, now it's more like 90/10 or even 95/5. With toys and porn, guys are starting to realize early in their teens that sex is about the only thing women bring to the table while expecting unfettered access to their funds and time. It's terrifying hearing about this generation of teens that watched their classmates get on tinder at 14 and enter the casual sex dating pool while playing 'grown up' with college students. It's not at all uncommon to have 20+ partners under their belt by 20 years old if you're in a college town. I listen to these guys that I would expect to be a catch, being in school, from money, in shape, no weird face issues, and they have little interest from women because they aren't the absolute top. Girls don't seem to understand that they aren't keeping the attention permanently, all the one-off dates are a fuck session, no mas. They tend to think that every dude that swipes right on them wants to marry them for the rest of time and raise 8 kids while letting them be a stay at home mom, but the guy just goes for statistic opportunities. I come away from these chats thinking about how insanely fucked our society is in less than 20 years, but we won't know it for another two generations.

The family unit is irreparably destroyed at the ground floor, and once the sex bots get here the rampant pussy inflation will finally pop and hopefully normalize. Relations between the genders are extremely polarized, to the point that near segregation is taking place on campuses unless you are one of this odd clique of 10% playboys. Even being nice to girls is taken as sexual interest, which can lead to a stranger exploiting the power dynamic to burn you pretty bad if you aren't hunky enough. I'm not even that much older than these kids, but it's like their grew up on the moon when they talk about dating experiences. Between the super herpes outbreak going around, aids, and the ghost of child support incels are the chubby, smart investors these days. Make it through your 20's without getting told you're a baby daddy or finding out you were listed as a father and owe back child support for a kid that ain't even yours and tell me how lame the incels were.

Then again, I'm around a pretty raunchy party school in a snowbird town, so maybe we have a higher percentage of unwatched, wealthy kids running around going crazy.

It seems like us gamers would solve our problems just by killing those Talented Tenthers, then.



To add, I have heard (without specific evidence) that polygamist societies have more problems with violence/turmoil because restless, hopeless single young men are a great pool for warfare. They’re not necessarily going to guillotine Chad, but they can be radicalized for all sorts of evil purposes. Polygamists have it worse because they have more of those single young men.

If there’s anything to the theory, then de facto polygamy should be a danger to society.

If you know the girl likes you or understand how signals are played you NEVER have to complement the girl on any of her looks.

I RARELY say anything positive but just mention different things. As long as you notice them it is good enough.

Honestly you just need to acknowledge them and carry on from there slowly. It's fucking magical how faggot virgins never seem to understand this.

But then again there are Chad predators who say stupid shit and ruin it for everyone.

That seems kind of overly tight-lipped to me.

If a person does give a compliment, it's a good idea to make compliments on a specific thing (and that goes for complimenting in general, not just flirting), and even then better if it's something they have control over. So for example, "you look nice in that outfit" versus "you look nice."
 
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Tinder fucks over the average man because all you can really effectively get across is your physical appearance, plenty of men who are not exactly what you'd call an adonis get with women who are "out of their league" if they can actually meet them IRL(this is the tricky part) and talk to them(yes, I know the article mentions people with poor social skills, that's also an issue). Tinder though is basically just a meat market, and women tend to be choosier then men at said market for whatever reason. Oh and the solution to the incel issue is honestly rather simple, prostitutes and maybe sexual surrogate therapy for some of them as well.
 
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That seems kind of overly tight-lipped to me.

If a person does give a compliment, it's a good idea to make compliments on a specific thing (and that goes for complimenting in general, not just flirting), and even then better if it's something they have control over. So for example, "you look nice in that outfit" versus "you look nice."
Never compliment women. Not once.
 
It seems like us gamers would solve our problems just by killing those Talented Tenthers, then.



To add, I have heard (without specific evidence) that polygamist societies have more problems with violence/turmoil because restless, hopeless single young men are a great pool for warfare. They’re not necessarily going to guillotine Chad, but they can be radicalized for all sorts of evil purposes. Polygamists have it worse because they have more of those single young men.

If there’s anything to the theory, then de facto polygamy should be a danger to society.
See the middle East and most countries with said legalised polygamy, there are other reasons they are rank shit holes but pools of men that fall prey to demagogues on a radical basis would be one. The amount of degenerates I see push polymary with a sprinkle of you're insecure for not dating a sex worker is insane..... Power level over.
 
Tinder fucks over the average man because all you can really effectively get across is your physical appearance, plenty of men who are not exactly what you'd call an adonis get with women who are "out of their league" if they can actually meet them IRL(this is the tricky part) and talk to them(yes, I know the article mentions people with poor social skills, that's also an issue). Tinder though is basically just a meat market, and women tend to be choosier then men at said market for whatever reason. Oh and the solution to the incel issue is honestly rather simple, prostitutes and maybe sexual surrogate therapy for some of them as well.
Used to be that way, but less so now. Girls do not want someone who doesn't make them look better. Any girl who's even average will have her friends telling her to trade up if she's dating someone who they see as unappealing. Maybe he's 5'6", she'll have her circle laughing at her "little boy" and ask if she has to go "feed him fish sticks". Until their 30's they really have no interest in long term dating, it's this endless churn of attention, validation, and gifts as they cycle through the same sociopathic group of assholes banging everyone else in the city. Given the risks in some places, I can't say I fault someone for not wanting to go headhunting in person. Wasn't there an article here where unwanted advances were classified as 'sexual harrassment' by women under 20? I'd keep my dating circle to church brunches, where all the washed up strippers are trying to get their life back on track.
 
Used to be that way, but less so now. Girls do not want someone who doesn't make them look better. Any girl who's even average will have her friends telling her to trade up if she's dating someone who they see as unappealing. Maybe he's 5'6", she'll have her circle laughing at her "little boy" and ask if she has to go "feed him fish sticks". Until their 30's they really have no interest in long term dating, it's this endless churn of attention, validation, and gifts as they cycle through the same sociopathic group of assholes banging everyone else in the city. Given the risks in some places, I can't say I fault someone for not wanting to go headhunting in person. Wasn't there an article here where unwanted advances were classified as 'sexual harrassment' by women under 20? I'd keep my dating circle to church brunches, where all the washed up strippers are trying to get their life back on track.
A certain subset of women think this way, but that is not all women, nor is it all women outside of church brunches or similar such stereotypically family friendly activity. The solution here really is to avoid dating apps, and if you live in a place like California, where the local culture has likely been thoroughly poisoned by this sort of shit, the solution there is to get the fuck out of Califaggia. Honestly, getting out of CA is probably good advice in general.
 
It's pretty funny how it got lost in this thread that incels are the losers. Every single one, completely and utterly without exception, regardless of reason or gender or happenstance. By any measure of the definition, they are losers. Dregs. Remainders. Only, it's much worse than that, because every incel has chosen to be one. They picked the title, they picked the group, they choose to be alone, and they like to be there, regardless of what they pretend. And now people wanna be Captain Saveacuck for absolutely no reason? It's so bizarre.
 
Former friend of mine is an Incel. He doesn't look too bad, but he's got a list of standards longer than a sperm whale's dick and somehow expects this magical woman to fix his every mental issue because he doesn't want to see a therapist. At that point I don't feel very sympathetic about his feel when no gf.

Honestly just get these guys some fucking therapy.

Can't get someone therapy who doesn't want it though. Even if you forced it on him he wouldn't learn anything. And I think with some of the new coping methods incels have and will have in the future the situation is just going to get worse. Instead of realizing that no that hot woman on instagram that's an 8/10 isn't interested and won't ever be interested in him like he is for her and he should just go for someone in his league he'll reject that and just go for an anime AI waifu and never leave. And I doubt it's for the best because at least before he might be able to overcome this and be with a girl that actually likes him for him and live happily ever after or whatever. Not saying this would happen to all incels but there are some that would escape and lead a much better life.
 
Never compliment women. Not once.

You should never compliment women you don't know. There's no reason to do so and most women will ignore it or take exception to it. It's a pointless risk vector for HR complaints and false accusations.

I only started complimenting my wife once we had been dating for a month.
 
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