Why Incels are the losers in the age of Tinder - Sympathy For the Sperginity

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Archive is fucking shit
As a society we still judge men who don’t have sex as failures
BY James Bloodworth



In the past year or so the word ‘Incel’ has become a ubiquitous online insult. Short for Involuntary Celibate, it was popularised by men who appropriated the label for themselves. The Incel community is overwhelmingly male (and growing) and to be an Incel (technically at least) is to have not had sex for six months or more.


As so the word has gradually crept into the vocabulary of every internet troll — partly I suspect because we still judge people by how much sex they have, or not in this case. We still view men who don’t have sex as failures in some way.


Incels are therefore an easy target. For men, calling someone an Incel implies something positive — a certain sexual abundance — about one’s own existence. For women it has begun to function as a putdown that ruthlessly dismisses unworthy suitors while simultaneously expelling them from the community of the good as misogynistic and creepy.


In the past decade there has been a three-fold increase in the number of men who have not had sex in the past year. In 2018 the Southern Poverty Law Centre added Incels to their ‘Hate Map’, describing them as “part of the online male supremacist eco-system”. Countless articles have appeared in the media equating inceldom with “toxic masculinity”, misogyny and violence. Most begin from the assumption that Incel ideology, so far as it exists, is a product of men’s domination over women. It is a backlash against feminism; the whingeing of men who have been taught by the tyrannical patriarchy to believe they are entitled to ownership of women’s bodies.


There is invariably some truth to this. The rise of the online ‘Manosphere’ is a reassertion by men of traditional gender roles from which they benefitted immensely. The most notorious Incels, who have gone on murderous rampages, have indeed been narcissistic and entitled men. Elliot Rodger was a 22-year-old Incel who murdered seven people in Isla Vista, California, in 2014. Rodger epitomised entitled masculinity. Shortly before Rodger carried about the massacre, Dale Launer, a friend of Rodger’s father, gave the boy some not terrible advice for building relationships with women on his college campus. Rodger’s response is revealing. As Launer recounted to the BBC:

“As I told him, ‘When you see a woman next time you’re on campus and you like her hair or sunglasses, just pay her a compliment.’ I told him, ‘It’s a freebie, something in passing, you’re not trying to make conversation. Keep walking, don’t make any long eye contact, just give the free compliment.’ The idea being you might make a friend if you make someone feel good.


“I said to Elliot, ‘In the next few weeks — if you see them they’ll likely give you a smile — and you can smile back and eventually turn this into chit-chat.’


“I got in touch with him a few weeks later and asked if he did it. He said ‘no’. And when asked why not, he said, ‘Why do I have to compliment them? Why don’t they compliment me?’” [emphasis mine]

Rodger felt superior to others and referred to a “Day of Retribution” when he would kill those he was envious of — ‘Chads’, men who sleep with lots of women, and ‘Staceys’, feminine and attractive — as well as those who did not see the value he believed he possessed. He probably had a narcissistic personality disorder.


However Rodger was an outlier. Most Incels are non-violent and use the forums they frequent as a support group, a place to vent — often toxically — against a society which they feel has rejected them (at least when it comes to intimacy). It is this which inceldom is largely concerned with: intimacy rather than sex. Most have given up on dating entirely. Some embrace an ideology they call the Black Pill — a spin-off the red and blue pills from The Matrix — which contains misogynistic tenets but adherence to which is not a requirement to be an Incel. The Blue Pill is the existing state of blissful ignorance; the Red Pill seeks to understand the system and manipulate it to its advantage; those who take the Black Pill accept the Red Pill’s tenets about women and society but resign themselves to a life of frustration and alienation.

Black pill ideology is often misogynistic and occasionally deadly. According to the Black Pill women are shallow and driven entirely by hypergamy — that’s to say the desire to hook up with a man of superior status to themselves whether in terms of looks, money or power. As with several other Black Pill assumptions there is an element of truth to this: women do tend to date “up”. However the Black Pill takes this concept to its deterministic absolute: on the forums Incels obsess over height and looks as if nobody who isn’t 6ft 4in with a six pack ever gets a date.


This is undoubtedly a convenient rationalisation for some. It’s easier to sit at home on the internet and lament the callousness and superficiality of wider society than it is to begin the long and arduous process required to become a more attractive man.


But the dating scene of 2020 is also radically different to the dating scene of twenty years ago, and this is a factor behind the growing number of Incels. The decline of traditional marriage has played a part. In the past there was greater societal pressure on women to ‘settle’ with men who they may not have been in love with or even sexually attracted to. The concept of arranged marriage, still popular in eastern cultures, where people pair up on the basis of suitability, is significantly different to our modern, Hollywood-style conception of idealised pairing on the basis of sexual attraction and finding ‘The One’.


Women are the sexual selectors on modern dating apps, where men are abundant and therefore of lower sexual market value (SMV). A friend and I ran an experiment on Tinder last year where we set up a profile purporting to be an attractive woman. In less than 24-hours the profile ran up over 2,000 matches. Tinder and similar apps are effective for the stereotypically good looking male. But the majority of men make do with few matches, often with women they are not attracted to. A recent study of Tinder found that “the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men”.


As I recently noted for UnHerd, our promiscuous culture bends toward the Pareto principle, also known as the 80/20 rule whereby 20% of men date 80% of women. I wrote: “Women compete over the most desirable men, while the rest are increasingly turning towards porn and — before long, no doubt — sex robots.”


The sexual revolution and the gradual erosion of the pressure to settle down (what Jordan Peterson has referred to as “socially enforced monogamy”) has encouraged women (quite reasonably) to seek out the best partners for themselves. Some men refuse to reconcile themselves to this new reality. Others struggle in a digital dating environment where superficial qualities are prized to an extent that was not true in the past. In the world of online dating, which is how 40% of couples in the United States meet, looks, height and social status are usually pre-requisites for matching with someone at all.


Offline, many Incels lack the basic social skills required to navigate relations with the opposite sex. According to an internal poll carried out on the website Incels.co, 26% of users of the forum said they had some form of autism. Flirting, which requires an innate understanding of nuanced sub-communications and unspoken sexual tension, does not come naturally to these men.


Moreover, mainstream dating advice for men is useless at the best of times and consists largely of feel-good bromides (often written by women) extolling men to ‘just be yourself’ or to let ‘fate’ take care of it. Real-life dating coaching, which takes clients out into bars and clubs in order to learn how to interact with women in a non-platonic way, is laughed at by the mainstream and dominated by charlatans calling themselves ‘pickup artists’.


Inceldom touches a nerve in wider society, which I suspect is why we have few conversations about it. All of us treat people differently on the basis of their physical appearance, however altruistic we may believe ourselves to be. As a recent article in Vice, which drew on a comprehensive body of research, noted: “Attractive people are generally assumed to be more intelligent, more trustworthy, and have better social skills.”


We shy away from talking honestly about this because to do so would be to acknowledge that there are some areas where true ‘equality’ — the ideal we strive for in most areas of political life — is unattainable when it comes to hooking up. The topic of sex and dating is already a minefield where egos swim amidst the unspoken and adversarial mating strategies deployed by men and women. There is very little altruism and equality when it comes to finding a mate. The sexual act is discriminatory by definition.


And it is leaving increasing numbers of men on the scrapheap. Some identify ideologically as Incels out of frustration. Some out of entitlement. Many seek to blame women’s supposedly unrealistic standards for their inability to form an intimate relationship. For others the situation is still more complex.


Incels arguably have something in common with the Japanese hikikomori, defined by Japan’s Health, Labour and Welfare Ministry as those who have “remained isolated at home for at least six consecutive months without going to school or work, and rarely interact with people from outside their immediate family”. Japan has around one million hikikomori.


Inceldom fits within a broader trend towards alienation and reclusive behaviour in modern societies, fostered by technology, changing dating preferences and — among other things — easy access to pornography. We don’t have our own hikikomori problem in the west just yet, but Incels are a growing phenomenon that society would do well to better understand — even if that is less satisfying than throwing the word around as an online insult.
 
On top of that how many prostitutes who aren't disgusting crack whores or victims of human trafficking are out there? Those are two major boner killers or at least should be for any man with a shred of decency.


Surprisingly many from what I've heard, although it probably depends quite much on which country we are talking about. One of my pals regularly pays for sex, and from his descriptions I would guesstimate that there are quite a lot of students and unemployed, but otherwise normal women selling their ass on regular basis.
 
3) I feel like you will get called an "incel" by people who themselves are incels just as often, if not more than other people.
The next time someone calls you an "incel" online ask them when was the last time they had sex.
I cannot stress this enough. The only people in my usual chat groups who ever mention incels are two guys who have haven't come close to a vagina after they were born, both preach RESPEKT WAHMEN but have harassed one of the few girls who hangs out with us.
Also, once you lose your virginity you stop obsessing over sex or at least this happened in my case. Lastly I believe insecurity and anxiety are the downfall of many dudes who are otherwise ok.
 
Surprisingly many from what I've heard, although it probably depends quite much on which country we are talking about. One of my pals regularly pays for sex, and from his descriptions I would guesstimate that there are quite a lot of students and unemployed, but otherwise normal women selling their ass on regular basis.

Yes I wonder if the situations were reversed, how many men would say "no" to women asking for sex, if the woman followed up with "I can pay". And all you had to do is pop a viagra and lie on your back while a woman rode you for 15 minutes tops? What if men always had that financial fallback position to count on when everything else failed?
 
Christ if these dudes stop trying to nail 8/10 whores and settled on 3/10's which will your suck dick like an ocean undertoe just to keep you happy even losers can get their dick wet.

Lower your expectations till you get what you want THEN starting the process of exceeding them. Unrealistic and impossible standards won't get anyone what they want no matter what fucking inspiration book idiots read.

I generally don't agree with the "just lower your standards, bro" argument because generally incels have an issue getting any woman to give them attention, let alone hot girls. And that stems from just a lack of actually having real conversations with woman; they don't know where to start, how not to spill spaghetti, how to keep a conversation going, list goes on. Online dating really doesn't help matters because that actually is only based on attractiveness. Yeah sure, I'll read a girl's Tinder bio to see if she's interesting or funny, but the first and largest thing I see are her pictures, and I won't swipe right unless I think the girl is attractive. I know for a fact that's what girls do too.


Now, many incels probably could get qt gf, but they're not doing themselves any favors by stewing angrily behind a computer monitor. It's good to vent anger or sadness once and a while, but it can't be good to center a part of your personality around self-pity. It's like a breeding ground for depression! Alot of it is a body image problem, too. Having a negative body image has usually been much more of a girl's issue than guy's, but incels have a strange obsession over features like maxilla, canthral tilt, and obviously height. There's tons of body positivity campaigns for women, but men don't have that, and there's no real support network for them given how current this issue is.

TLDR: Incels are totally a domestic terror threat and not just some depressed guys circlejerking themselves online.
 
TLDR: Incels are totally a domestic terror threat and not just some depressed guys circlejerking themselves online.

They are a sad lot of lonely boys who grew up not knowing how to be Men and told that all the time they acted like Men they were 'evil/toxic/misogynistic'. I used the example of lowering standards so they can 'practice' on women that everyone else has given up on and who would probably tolerate these lil shit weasels. If anything is a confidence booster it's getting positive attention from women, any woman.

The sooner they learn that the world owes them nothing and passivity gets them nowhere and nice guys don't finish at all the sooner they will become Men. Therapy and medication can help, but that would require them admitting they are 'wrong' and that take introspection to which these folks don't have one iota of. Then it would take the parents and friends to intervene. That would these boys to have people in their lives that care and the only people that 'care' about them are the other hermits.
 
They are a sad lot of lonely boys who grew up not knowing how to be Men and told that all the time they acted like Men they were 'evil/toxic/misogynistic'. I used the example of lowering standards so they can 'practice' on women that everyone else has given up on and who would probably tolerate these lil shit weasels. If anything is a confidence booster it's getting positive attention from women, any woman.

The sooner they learn that the world owes them nothing and passivity gets them nowhere and nice guys don't finish at all the sooner they will become Men. Therapy and medication can help, but that would require them admitting they are 'wrong' and that take introspection to which these folks don't have one iota of. Then it would take the parents and friends to intervene. That would these boys to have people in their lives that care and the only people that 'care' about them are the other hermits.
Think about it in economic terms.

Social media expands the supply of available males for females by making it more efficient to meet each other. Women are not limited by geographic proximity, they can find anyone they want, any time they want, and establish relationships on their own terms.

This diminishes the prospects for the lowest desirability males. As they share experiences on social media, they learn bad socializing strategies from one another. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

So they're not going to learn the world owes them nothing, they're not going to learn how to improve themselves to increase their desirability. They're going to be in a persistent alienated state that becomes self-reinforcing as they encounter more people in the same situation. For something to change the situation, it would have to be a match-making system, where couples are paired up as a means of building self-esteem instead of qualitative selection.

In 50 years, we will be back to arranged marriages.
 
In 50 years, we will be back to arranged marriages.

Harems. We will have harems soon much like a pride of gorillas has one alpha and all the females belong to him. We will be in an era of Mad Max where only the most dominant of males has access to females.

I look forward to that day...just don't tell my wife.
 
Harems. We will have harems soon much like a pride of gorillas has one alpha and all the females belong to him. We will be in an era of Mad Max where only the most dominant of males has access to females.

I look forward to that day...just don't tell my wife.
That society won't last long, when the replacement rate drops down to 0.000000001%.

Unlikely to happen.
 
I'm now wondering if the userbase of r/whereareallthegoodmen have considerable crossover with incels, or if they're merely schadenfreude vampires feeding on lolcow single moms.

My experience being a ghost there is the latter given the kind of lolcow single mothers we are talking about....

Screenshot_20200217-122724_Chrome.jpg
 
I'm now wondering if the userbase of r/whereareallthegoodmen have considerable crossover with incels, or if they're merely schadenfreude vampires feeding on lolcow single moms.

I smelled autism in the water so I went over to that subreddit. Left after 5 minutes because if I want to read autists laughing at other autists, KF is still the Cadillac.
 
I think some incels are genuinely just terrible people but there are also some fucked over by chance/their own expectations/the high bar of women’s expectations. Both sides are right lol I’m galaxy brain.
Think about it in economic terms.

Social media expands the supply of available males for females by making it more efficient to meet each other. Women are not limited by geographic proximity, they can find anyone they want, any time they want, and establish relationships on their own terms.

This diminishes the prospects for the lowest desirability males. As they share experiences on social media, they learn bad socializing strategies from one another. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

So they're not going to learn the world owes them nothing, they're not going to learn how to improve themselves to increase their desirability. They're going to be in a persistent alienated state that becomes self-reinforcing as they encounter more people in the same situation. For something to change the situation, it would have to be a match-making system, where couples are paired up as a means of building self-esteem instead of qualitative selection.

In 50 years, we will be back to arranged marriages.
Arranged marriages may make it worse... you ever seen how MENA/pajeets get around women?
 
I've saved the worst for last. The Incels Ultimate Form. The true horror.
  • The Anti-Chad
    • A creature born with every available way to get women: looks, wealth, status. However, his charisma is so detestable, his personality so horrific, he is a veritable black hole. He sucks the charisma of other beings and rips it to pieces. He is so detestable, so fucking horrible, that even associating with such a creature risks reversing your own virginity. Pure scum, narcissistic and entitled even beyond the True Incel. Meeting and conversing with one is like staring into the void. They are everything wrong with the modern world. They expect sex from everyone they meet, they expect you, yourself, to bow to them in awe. Their idiocy and lack of reality can bend time and space itself. Though they have every conceivable advantage, they are a horror beyond humanity that we instinctively run from them. Even in today's modern society, they stand out as the worst the world has to offer. Even women, who theoretically should flock to these attributes, flee, because of how primal this creature's awfulness is. There is no correcting this personality, and no fixing the sheer amount of ugliness this person possesses. Here you have your date rapists, rapists and others, because they are so horrific, they can't get anything but through sheer force. They are the dregs of humanity.
The Anti-Chad should at least try to predate on mentally inept women to lose his virginity, because dear God is this the most accurate description of Jean-François Gariépy I've read.
Are incels and the MGTOW community interchangeable? I assume not since MGTOWs are largely taking a modern monks vow of celibacy, just with more beer and shitposting.
Not really. I've posted about this in the MGTOW thread.

MGTOW are men who avoid any (committed) relationship, or in some extreme cases any interaction, with women for various reasons (bad experience with women, determining that the current toxic relationship between the two sexes is not worth the risk, the fact that we live in a society etc.). That is all. It doesn't help however that a lot of self-described MGTOWs are in fact incels in denial.
 
Not so much as sexual harrassment but bitches can really put these dudes down and kill any self-confidence they had. Like it really isn't hard to give a smile and thanks when they compliment you. You can just think of them as the tards you see in public. Girls treat them like puppies.

There was this one girl I had a huge, long-term crush on in high school. One day I give her a compliment on how nice she looks. She responds by saying, "Are you giving compliments to everyone today?"

I don't know what she meant by that - it was a really weird response - and it didn't effect my confidence, but I lost all my attraction towards her in an instant. Felt a coldness towards her from that point on. It's not rude to reject somebody, even to do so bluntly. It is very rude to mock/reject a compliment.
 
There was this one girl I had a huge, long-term crush on in high school. One day I give her a compliment on how nice she looks. She responds by saying, "Are you giving compliments to everyone today?"

I don't know what she meant by that - it was a really weird response - and it didn't effect my confidence, but I lost all my attraction towards her in an instant. Felt a coldness towards her from that point on. It's not rude to reject somebody, even to do so bluntly. It is very rude to mock/reject a compliment.

I don’t think she was mocking you. It sounds like she was insecure didn’t know how to accept a complement.
 
Honest to God. Why dont these guys try going gay?

Anal sex is bad for the anus.

And by "girl next door" they mean the character played in some movie by Ellen Page, who is also a virgin, and despite this, will willingly do every deviant thing they've ever seen in porn, and on top of that, will put up with some fat, greasy, neckbearded fuck with a completely repulsive personality who is willing to do absolutely nothing to deserve them.

And the girl will also initiate, and be enthusiastic-- but not too enthusiastic, and in the right way.
 
I don’t think she was mocking you. It sounds like she was insecure didn’t know how to accept a complement.

Sheeeit, I told that story to somebody else recently (IRL) and they said the same thing.

Casts a sad light on it. She was nice to me at other times, at least. Went on to work for the Peace Corps, so I reckon she turned out well.
 
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