The Final Fantasy Thread

[verissimus]

I don't see any other way this isn't a sequel, you have 3 whispers that are supposed to represent OG Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett along with Sephiroth's motives in this game to change due to knowing the results of the OG game.

Smh.

1) How do you figure this is a sequel? Just..how?

2) Even were that true what you said about those "whispers", why just them? Are we just going to ignore all the other characters then or are we going to see the other character's whisper version in later installments?

3) That whisper theory is on par with almost all the stupid Snoke theories people came up with for TLJ. I'm sure you might be able to find some examples of fans correctly guessing things that will happen next in certain somewhat intricate franchises, but I highly doubt you can name one fan who was able to guess what bad directors/writers like J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson, Nomura, Kojima, etc. will do outside subverting people's expectations. Honestly, no one should even bother "theorizing" what these kinds of people will do.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Oh well at least I won't waste money on this but I'm so disappointed, we waited for so long and we get Nomura's autism land? It's the greatest April's fool prank ever. It being Midgar only was a huge red flag plus Nomura being involved, we were just so focused on the gameplay and that's one aspect that is actually cool and I loved it from the demo.

Seriously tho, fuck Nomura. The ego he has to just put his autism in a work he didn't create? Sounds like someone we know well. Dude just can't help himself.

Its really my fault I bought this, but I don't use my PS4 for much and I've gotten what I want on it (JoJo Eyes if Heaven, Bloodborne, Persona 5). I don't really mind the prettiness and the gameplay, and to be frank, I honestly wasn't expecting a fully faithful remake. Companies can't even do remasters correctly these days (see the 'remasters' of the older FFs on Steam where you have to grab mods to get the good sprite art back).

The only thing I'm mad about is that it had to be multiple games instead of a single one. But that's ok, if I turn out loathing the direction it goes, I'll just finish it, never buy the sequel and go 'lol, this is trash', mine the devout FFVII players for salt and start up Persona 5 royal waifu action. Though if it turns out to be magnificent Japanese insanity I'll probably buy the sequel. I'm too used to Western games 'making sense' and having 'plots'. If it turns into Nomura being a spiteful, idotic faggot then I'll just cut my losses and laugh.

3) That whisper theory is on par with almost all the stupid Snoke theories people came up with for TLJ. I'm sure you might be able to find some examples of fans correctly guessing things that will happen next in certain somewhat intricate franchises, but I highly doubt you can name one fan who was able to guess what bad directors/writers like J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson, Nomura, Kojima, etc. will do outside subverting people's expectations. Honestly, no one should even bother "theorizing" what these kinds of people will do.

My experience with these things laid this early is they typically amount to nothing due to huge development cycles and things changing rapidly over time. I'd say the best answer is don't speculate, because the likelihood these things matter less and less and less goes upward over time. The way this 'remake' turned out it is that it basically wasn't designed properly with no real plan going forward in the future. The more I play, the more this feeling I get from that. So I imagine it is going to turn out to be a clusterfuck.

Just hope Nomura is batshit enough like Kojima that it will turn into a beautiful clusterfuck like a half-naked supermodel breathing through her skin and dancing in water in a thong and not a boring clusterfuck like Rian Johnson where he makes 'Opposite Day: The Movie'.

 

[vertexwindi]

Never played the original and have no attachment to it emotional or otherwise.

You're gonna feel left out of the loop a lot then.

 

[madeinabyss31]

A re-imagining is essentially taking something, carrying over similar attributes, but putting them in vastly different situations. There are common threads, but imagined as something else. So you've got your similar characters, their similar pasts, but then you're throwing in a time travel story along with it, which strays from the plot.

Its not really a direct sequel, its not really a re-make, its more like a 'What-If' Marvel Comic, which is what a re-imagining is. "What happens if there's an alternate dimension and the bad guys can see it after the events of the original?"

Now why they did this, uh, I don't know. It seems like a dumb thing to do.

Ok just sounds like a reboot to me.

But either way, that's not really what is going on here. The whispers are directly from the OG story, we know that for a fact. We also know that Sephiroth, somehow, got visions of the future (OG timeline) - this goes beyond just carrying over similar attributes. I guess i just don't understand why people can't just say it's a sequel that is retconning.

I just feel like there is a lot of mental gymnastics to suggest this isn't drastically different than a remake.

Smh.

1) How do you figure this is a sequel? Just..how?

2) Even were that true what you said about those "whispers", why just them? Are we just going to ignore all the other characters then or are we going to see the other character's whisper version in later installments?

3) That whisper theory is on par with almost all the stupid Snoke theories people came up with for TLJ. I'm sure you might be able to find some examples of fans correctly guessing things that will happen next in certain somewhat intricate franchises, but I highly doubt you can name one fan who was able to guess what bad directors/writers like J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson, Nomura, Kojima, etc. will do outside subverting people's expectations. Honestly, no one should even bother "theorizing" what these kinds of people will do.

1. I have already explained this and it's actually not hard to understand. I'm actually surprised that people aren't getting it.

It doesn't matter that you're playing from the perspective of Cloud and company from this NEW timeline, The simple fact is, WE KNOW the the OG storyline happened, so it can't be a remake, right? Hopefully we agree on that. We know that the whispers "manifested" from the future to the time this game takes place, thus meaning the OG game had to happen for the events in this game to be able to happen - you know, Sephiroth knowing his outcome because of the OG timeline.

2. I don't know, and don't care. It specifically described having 3 whispers to be defenders of a future timeline with a sword, fists, and gun. This is very similar to Chrono Cross and "echoes", except these ones have the ability and obviously consciousness to be hostile

3. How about you play the fucking game or look up more in-detail spoilers? Is this good enough for you? https://imgur.com/a/mAY88hX

I'm not pulling shit out of my ass here. I'm not even speculating if Zack is alive or dead or if Aerith will live or die. I am giving you things WE KNOW - we know time travel exists, we know one of the whispers specifically watches over ALL threads of time and space meaning there are multiple timelines, and WE KNOW Sephiroth knows his fate from the OG story. I'm not trying to be rude here, but this isn't difficult to understand. The time travel was an excuse to retcon what happened in the OG game. And if you want my theory: This is all about fan service, it's about saving Aerith, it's about saving Zack and giving them two a happily ever after, it's about Nomura and Nojima going forward with their gay Advent children shit and whatever they did with that stupid vampire shooting game. Even Jessie's behavior in this game is ripped directly from years of horny dudes online wanting her to be a waifu. This is all about all those shitty fan fic stories coming true.

 

[Marissa Moira]

I think I stated back in the thread that I predicted that FF7 remake will become such as shit show, but I said, that it will become a shitshow by the 2nd game. I was wrong! Here we are, just in the first game, and it is such a shit show.

Anyway, for me, I have played all the offline FF and still FF7 seems the most human of them all. Many will say that FF6 is the best, but I will say FF7 is the most human.

Strip out all the fantasy and futuristic elements in the game, you end up with very realistic characters. Cloud is just a weak man, self-defeatist, low self esteem, "lying"(though not technically lying, because its mako poisoning) to look cool. Was never able to achieve anything. Cid is a broken middle-age man with broken grand dreams. Aerith sees her former love in Cloud. Barrett is doing terrible things to just to get back at the company that wronged him. And they were all just caught up with each other and in a diabolical world ending plot. No other FF have their characters' plights are more human than FF7

Then you combine it with story elements like the wanton corporatism, greed and etc..., FF7 resonates with people more than other FFs. Frankly, I just see other FF characters as cookie cutter tropes in JRPGs.

So, yeah, with FF7 having time traveling fixers mumbo jumbo, basically destroyed what made FF7 great and memorable.

Have you played Trails of Cold Steel? You want realistic characters you have about 30 to pick from.

 

[verissimus]

I'd say the best answer is don't speculate, because the likelihood these things matter less and less and less goes upward over time. The way this 'remake' turned out it is that it basically wasn't designed properly with no real plan going forward in the future. The more I play, the more this feeling I get from that. So I imagine it is going to turn out to be a clusterfuck.

Don't worry I don't plan to speculate on them, and I've already mentioned that I've become convinced they dropped the ball considering the way they decided to split things.

On a completely other note, looking back at things again, I just found out they managed to ruin Aeris for me too at least in one regard.

Spoiler

That being her understanding of what the "whispers" are. Apparently when Cloud first meets her she doesn't know what they are, but in the beginning of chapter 18 you get the impression she now knows too much about them (and Sephiroth for that matter). I know that there was always a bit of aloofness to certain things Aeris knew about to some extent both here and in the original but not for this point. Here she's not being cryptic at all. She just doesn't know one moment, but does (along with Red XIII apparently) when the plot requires it. Screw you Square Enix.

3. How about you play the fucking game or look up more in-detail spoilers? Is this good enough for you? https://imgur.com/a/mAY88hX

So Square wants to tell important story points in our game via bestiary intel? These people...they couldn't even be honest and confident about what they were doing.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Rubrum is from Type Zero, that's a game where the story was the most fucked and convoluted thing I ever saw.

The ending made no sense, one moment they're alive and the next they're dead for some reason.

 

[Radical Cadre]

In all honesty, if it weren’t for the Compilation of FF7 projects that essentially killed my enthusiasm for the fandom, I’d probably be all over this. Square seems to have a better understanding now as to why people love the original, but not to the point where they still don’t go afield once in awhile

Your first point about the FFVII projects is spot-on. They effectively became the fandom by their sheer numbers and Advent Children now appears to be the measure by which the Remake was judged. It all reeks of Advent Children and Square's desperate attempts to create a larger, cohesive franchise out of Final Fantasy VII. But I disagree with your next point about Square understanding why people loved the original.

I think Square has an understanding about why people loved Advent Children. They literally recreated scenes from Advent Children for the FFVII Remake while promising a faithful remake of the original. The trailers that were released all seemed grounded and gave the impression of a faithful remake so there was no way for fans of the original to know what they were about to get in terms of story. With that said, plenty of people were ringing alarm bells when changes to the gameplay were announced and when the game's release structure became apparent. But even those fans were shouted down by the droves of Advent Children fans that mindlessly hyped FFVII Remake as the second coming.

It seems as if the Advent Children fans got the game they always wanted, which is to say they got Advent Children: The Game. Anyone looking for a remake of Final Fantasy VII has effectively been told to pound sand and were likely charged 60 bucks for the privilege. Even the people that were willing to settle for gameplay changes but were excited to relive the original's scenario got blown out.

 

[Bungus Scrungus]

From the things I like is voice of Matt Jones as Wedge who You might know as Badger from Breaking Bad.

I recognize Matt Jones from his role as Gunther Magnuson in Kick Buttowski, so that's why I personally felt his voice was familiar when I heard it, and liked it; since his voice really does fit. I was audibly surprised when I found this stuff out, last night.

 

[Burned Man]

I'm watching my brother play it so I can't say anything about the game play other then it looks flashy and fun enough. I like a lot of the details like the bestiary its nice seeing what all the weird enemies are in the mako reactor that I never understood playing the original. I like the slums and the extra moments with Biggs and Wedge although Jessie's thirst is a little too much. I like the slums and seeing the citizens of Midgar I like the different varieties of Shinra soldiers. Basically that stuff is what I was looking for in this remake and and would have made me happy if the whole remake was just expanded like that rather then timeline stuff and Sepiroth showing up.

We only just passed the Jessie mission so I can't say much but knowing the details of the plot from reading it here has me stifling laughs at a few points where the time jannies show up since I don't want to spoil what they are for my brother.

Spoiler: bombing mission

The whole thing of Shinra bombing the reactor themselves is kind of stupid but I can buy it as a way to try and kill the terrorists since the reactor is screwed either way but they really shouldn't have shown that it was Shinra until much later so that way the player along with the characters can see the aftermath and feel responsible for it.

So far I don't hate it but I'm glad the original still exists but I'm sure by the end I might have different feelings.

 

[Berrakh]

Never played the original and have no attachment to it emotional or otherwise.

Play the original. The Switch version is pretty good. Good sound, unlike the PC, and fixes the script up.

1. I have already explained this and it's actually not hard to understand. I'm actually surprised that people aren't getting it.

It doesn't matter that you're playing from the perspective of Cloud and company from this NEW timeline, The simple fact is, WE KNOW the the OG storyline happened, so it can't be a remake, right? Hopefully we agree on that. We know that the whispers "manifested" from the future to the time this game takes place, thus meaning the OG game had to happen for the events in this game to be able to happen - you know, Sephiroth knowing his outcome because of the OG timeline.

2. I don't know, and don't care. It specifically described having 3 whispers to be defenders of a future timeline with a sword, fists, and gun. This is very similar to Chrono Cross and "echoes", except these ones have the ability and obviously consciousness to be hostile

3. How about you play the fucking game or look up more in-detail spoilers? Is this good enough for you? https://imgur.com/a/mAY88hX

I'm not pulling shit out of my ass here. I'm not even speculating if Zack is alive or dead or if Aerith will live or die. I am giving you things WE KNOW - we know time travel exists, we know one of the whispers specifically watches over ALL threads of time and space meaning there are multiple timelines, and WE KNOW Sephiroth knows his fate from the OG story. I'm not trying to be rude here, but this isn't difficult to understand. The time travel was an excuse to retcon what happened in the OG game. And if you want my theory: This is all about fan service, it's about saving Aerith, it's about saving Zack and giving them two a happily ever after, it's about Nomura and Nojima going forward with their gay Advent children shit and whatever they did with that stupid vampire shooting game. Even Jessie's behavior in this game is ripped directly from years of horny dudes online wanting her to be a waifu. This is all about all those shitty fan fic stories coming true.

A lot of truth to this. Zack being shown to be alive was a fanservicey way to show the future can change. But I doubt things will stop there. They already had Hojo spoil that Cloud isn't a SOLDIER. The only reason I am skeptical he (Zack) would be alive is because then they can't mollify shippers any longer, which apparently did dictate a lot of their decision-making.

As for waifu-faggotry changing the girls:
Tifa is a good example. In the original she was sure of herself with fighting Shinra but unsure of herself with Cloud during Midgar. Like if you hit on her she'd find it a little confusing in fact, and when she meets Aeris she says Cloud and she are not together or anything when Aerith tries to convince her to not worry. Now she is definitely pursuing Cloud and flirting, but doesn't know if she's alright with actually fighting Shinra. So they made Tifa more of a waifu and less of a character with engagement in the A story.
Aeris is also a little different, she was more flirty in the original. I guess this can be excused as a conscious decision to make her less willing to lead Cloud on since she knows the future but idk. Happy coincidence for sure. They also made the two of them much more overtly friendly, even if Tifa still gets upset that Cloud might be drawn to Aeris but this change bothers me less.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Final Fantasy 7 Remake has sold out of all versions of the game on Amazon, Best Buy, and Walmart. I dunno how that exactly will attribute to the final sales figures but in comparison 15 didn't have that happen to it.

This game may leave people divided but if any major corporate shit is going to go down it's going to be how they handle the followup because if that bombs then the other games they planned won't do as well. The third game will be like what happened with Xenosaga.

 

[haurchefant]

This was retribution for Versus XIII. Re:Mind showed Nomura was still upset about that, and I genuinely get the feeling the plot stuff in Remake is him being spiteful. He lost 6 years of his life only to have his project snatched away from him, so he figures he'll waste 5 years of Square Enix's lives.

"I harness the burning anger in my heart into what I create." was a quote he made about 3 years after Versus XIII was reworked into XV. I do think that for Nomura, darkness is the heart's TRUE essence.

I choose to believe that this is 100% right. In which case it's the funniest fucking thing to happen. Holy shit Nomura is such a cocksucker. He wasted 6 years of Square's time and money developing his shitty autistic game and then was hurt to find out that his name didn't give him time to meander endlessly and waste all of his boss's money. Now he's having a hissy fit at the people who sign his paycheck just because he is completely unable to get his shit together in any way.

If he's seriously using this to have a long form temper tantrum then that doesn't just reflect badly on Square. That reflects very, very badly on him because he's being a child and putting a lot at risk just so he can be a bitch. People were already pissed at him for his earlier fuck ups but now he's fucked up one of the golden gooses of videogames and that's not going away any time soon.

What a spoiled brat lmao. Maybe he should take those lulzy classes about project management.

Final Fantasy 7 Remake has sold out of all versions of the game on Amazon, Best Buy, and Walmart. I dunno how that exactly will attribute to the final sales figures but in comparison 15 didn't have that happen to it.

This game may leave people divided but if any major corporate shit is going to go down it's going to be how they handle the followup because if that bombs then the other games they planned won't do as well. The third game will be like what happened with Xenosaga.

What happened to Xenosaga?

 

[Marissa Moira]

What happened to Xenosaga?

The sales figures by the second game didn't justify the six game series, and the PS2 was at the end of it's life. So they couldn't afford to make PS3 games because the switch would be too costly at the time, so instead they crammed the remaining 4 games into Xenosaga 3.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

I wouldn't really solely blame Nomura for whatever controversial stuff (I'm early on the story) because you can't forget about Nojima, the writer. He also wrote FFX and a few years ago wrote an official story, supposedly leading to a potential FFX-3, where Tidus Is Dead And Doesn't Know It Yet Again and Sin is Back Again, then saying that this was the real intent of the extended X-2 epilogue all along.

Tidus sees a blitzball and goes to kick it but it turns out to be a landmine. It explodes and his severed head lands in Yuna's lap.

I'm not joking, that's the plot of that novel.

 

[Bungus Scrungus]

Honestly, I can't even be mad at Nomura, haurche. Say what you will about me, but I respect that sort of spite and grudge, and the fact Square Enix didn't realize it would happen just makes it all the more better, in my eyes.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

I'm not sure why everyone is acting so surprised since this is exactly the kind of story these guys have been making for the last 10+ years. I mean I wouldn't have predicted it shitting the bed in this exact, specific way. But I did kind of expect it to have some big fuckups.

 

[Berrakh]

I'm not sure why everyone is acting so surprised since this is exactly the kind of story these guys have been making for the last 10+ years. I mean I wouldn't have predicted it shitting the bed in this exact, specific way. But I did kind of expect it to have some big fuckups.

I was expecting just a really juvenile take on the original with dead-end additions that the player can't help but know are filler. If anything, this fuck-up impresses me.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Game is 100% Wholesome

 

[CheezzyMach]

View attachment 1225932

Tidus sees a blitzball and goes to kick it but it turns out to be a landmine. It explodes and his severed head lands in Yuna's lap.

I'm not joking, that's the plot of that novel.

Yeah that shit was why I stopped giving a damn about FF. All that bullshit you had to go through in X-2 to get the best ending wasted because Square-Enix can't just let shit end and has to keep jerking off their franchises and sequelbait for games they'll never make.