Cyberpunk 2077 Grieving Thread

[Dumpster dived waifu]

Imagine if a characters sexuality was not their defining trait.

I literally can't. It's current year, and you're being homophobic/transphobic/racist/bigoted/a daft cunt.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

Imagine if a characters sexuality was not their defining trait.

B-but that's erasure, and is mega problematic!

 

[FunPosting101]

Spoiler: Mutual respect and tolerance are the foundation of creativity and innovation – interview with Adam Kiciński and Adam Badowski

Source

Katarzyna Kucharczyk: – The LGBT rights issue has become a hot topic. On top of that, the Company had postponed Night City Wire in light of the social unrest in the USA. Why does CD PROJEKT choose to speak out, when most Polish companies – particularly ones as prominent as CD PROJEKT – would prefer to remain quiet?


AK: Because these are important matters. People come to CD PROJEKT not just to earn a living. Our business has always been rooted in a specific system of values. In a small company, business activities often reflect the owners’ personal beliefs. As the company grows larger, such beliefs morph into a foundation upon which the team spirit and work ethos are based. The founders of CD PROJEKT, Marcin Iwiński and my brother Michał, respected the differences between their personalities and focused on what brought them together: a passion for video games. 26 years on we are incalculably larger and all the more cognizant of the importance of mutual respect, tolerance and — to put it simply — fair play. Our team comprises all sorts of people, leaning left or right on legal, economic and worldview issues — not to mention several dozen nationalities, multiple ethnic groups and many LGBT individuals. We pride ourselves on our diversity, but we also realize that efficient operation requires active measures promoting mutual respect and tolerance.


– How did these events play out with your gamers/investors?


AK: The feedback reflects the broader social discourse: some are for, some are against. On the global scale, the vast majority of responses have been positive. I personally happen to believe that, in addition to listening to others, you should also remain true to yourself.


– Is the issue of tolerance an important part of the creative process when developing video games and – to put it broadly – innovating?


AB: I would reply by quoting from the CD PROJEKT Group strategy: We stand for tolerance. We combat all forms of racism, homophobia and xenophobia, as we believe tolerance is the foundation of creativity and innovation. Of course, our perception of tolerance is not fully captured by these two short sentences. Rather, they serve as guidelines which each of us may interpret in somewhat different ways. Some support the view expressed by Professor Maria Ossowska, a prominent Polish sociologist, who claims that tolerance is the capacity to respect other people’s needs and opinions which we ourselves do not espouse, and to refrain from combating phenomena which we regard as evil. Others are more in line with Popper’s proposition that a tolerant society, if it is to remain tolerant, must not tolerate intolerance. There are also people at our studio who disagree with both views.


The key takeaway is that diversity — which Adam talked about previously — and the differing sensitivities and outlooks which result from it, are not leading to conflict. In this way our team’s energy can be fully directed towards creation. And creating complex works is inherently a team effort.


What is more, there is strong correlation between openness to “the other” and its effect on creativity and motivation. In my opinion this results mainly from an increased feeling of security. In an environment where you can simply be yourself it becomes easier to have frank discussions, share ideas and express opinions — and that provides a starting point for many interesting activities.


The status quo is overcome through bold action. If we say that a “revolution” has occurred in some discipline, the very word “revolution” implies a disruption of the status quo. When a revolution in spaceflight is brought about, it is because some guy in California dared imagine it. When a revolution in RPGs takes place, it is because a team of bold women and men has had the audacity to express its ideas. Our role as executives is to manage this process — with matching courage and rationality.


AK: California provides an excellent example of how openness, respect and tolerance foster innovative businesses and stimulate the economy. I am convinced that in today’s world the best way to build a modern, competitive economy is by remaining open to novel ideas and accepting diversity.


– Corporate involvement in LGBT issues may have caused a storm in Poland, but was relatively calmly received in the West. Why? Is it because the Polish society is more conservative?


AK: That’s not the way I see it. Yes, there was some criticism, but I definitely wouldn’t call it a storm. When it comes to the Polish society — it is not for me to judge. I’m glad to have been born in Poland; I’ve had the opportunity to witness the fundamental transformation of the country — when communism fell, I was already an adult and aware of what was going on. The increasing polarization concerns me, but it is not a distinctly Polish phenomenon. Modern European attachment to tolerance grew out of the terrible calamities visited upon us by intolerant totalitarian systems. Unfortunately, we are beginning to forget this lesson.


– How are issues of tolerance treated in your key videogames? How do they affect “The Witcher” series (which clearly has strong antiracist and antihomophobic undertones) and how will they influence “Cyberpunk”?


AB: In his literature Andrzej Sapkowski has dealt with racism in a fairly harsh manner. Much like his books, the video games acknowledge the antagonism between humans and “non-humans”, i.e. elves, dwarves etc. Our games depict the consequences of stigmatizing otherness, reveal the link between social inequality and xenophobic sentiment, and show what humans are capable of when they believe they can act with impunity. There is a similar vibe in “Cyberpunk”. For example, Mike Pondsmith’s manual, published in the 1980s and providing the source of inspiration for our game, is quite liberal when it comes to gender modification. The whole issue is regarded as relatively minor compared to the need to express one’s personal style — and this provides for much greater fluidity. I truly hope that, much like in the case of The Witcher games, Cyberpunk 2077 will surprise everyone with how many bold, mature and astute narratives can be conveyed by the video game medium. I will gladly come back to this issue after the November release once I’m at liberty to share more information.


– CD PROJEKT is a global company. What are your reflections on matters related to tolerance in the digital entertainment sector abroad? Do other studios follow the same direction as CD PROJEKT? Do their games also provide social perspective? If so, can you name some examples?


AK: The entertainment industry in general strongly promotes diversity. It hasn’t always been that way, and there are some bad examples from the past, but the two recent decades brought about a powerful thaw. Its youngest offshoot — video game development — also happens to be the most agile. We learn a lot from the shortcomings and accomplishments of our colleagues from the motion picture, literature and music industries, and I suppose we may be faster at implementing certain novel mechanisms. Way back in the 20th century the superb writer Andre Norton (born Alice Mary Norton) chose to publish under a male pseudonym because her publisher believed that the masculinized readership demographic would not take interest in fantasy authored by a woman. There is no such issue with videogames. Yes, there are other problems, such as sexualization of female characters, but they are discussed in the open and bold steps are being taken to mitigate them. Sexual orientation is in a similar position. What had long been taboo in mainstream motion pictures is now turning what it should have been from the outset: stories of human romance rather than accounts of the struggle for the right to be accepted.

"Yes, there are other problems, such as sexualization of female characters, but they are discussed in the open and bold steps are being taken to mitigate them. "
That worries me, hopefully this mitigation is just these characters being three-dimensional characters(in terms of characterization, obviously) and not them nerfing all the sexy women in the game to appeal to woketards. I remain optimistic, but cautiously so now.

 

[InsolentGaylord]

I'm frankly kinda sick of hearing about this game and I just hope something happens that really fucks CDPR over or something now.

I'm just sick of the bitching.

 

[Poop A Loop]

The game is going to perform very well and it'll be a really solid objective 8/10. There's gonna be some woke shit in there that redditors and troons can point to as a victory, but the stuff that was cut or distracted from due to the need to insert progressive themes that aren't explicitly part of the cyberpunk genre will be red flags indicating that the game was originally going to be so much more or could have been an actual masterpiece rather than just a well put together AAA game.

It'll be like TLOU2. Media will point to it as a masterpiece but when you look at actual lack of substantive discussion by people who haven't cut their dicks off or live in leftist enclaves like London or San Fran in a year and lower long-tail sales it'll pale in comparison to The Witcher 3.

 

[Ruin]

In terms of censorship I think some of the more explicit nudity will be cut. The E3 Witcher 3 demo had full frontal during the sex scenes and some prostitute npcs in the brothel areas were fully nude or bottomless. None of that made it into the final product.

The violence will probably stay, violence especially in America is less taboo than nudity.

That infamous dick girl billboard that pissed of the Twitter troons is probably gone.

 

[Aquinas]

i'll be honest with you, its a cyberpunk game, of course theres going to be some woke shtit

 

[Ginger Piglet]

The game is going to perform very well and it'll be a really solid objective 8/10. There's gonna be some woke shit in there that redditors and troons can point to as a victory, but the stuff that was cut or distracted from due to the need to insert progressive themes that aren't explicitly part of the cyberpunk genre will be red flags indicating that the game was originally going to be so much more or could have been an actual masterpiece rather than just a well put together AAA game.

It'll be like TLOU2. Media will point to it as a masterpiece but when you look at actual lack of substantive discussion by people who haven't cut their dicks off or live in leftist enclaves like London or San Fran in a year and lower long-tail sales it'll pale in comparison to The Witcher 3.

I dunno about this. Some media will salivate all over it, yes. Kotapershotygon will give it 6 or 7 for not bending the knee to SJWs enough. And there's not really been signs of such knee-bending other than in recent months and we already know the game's been feature complete since about May. But objectively, it won't be as good as W3 but that is because W3 was just that good. You don't get even better sequels to games of that quality. Dragon Age: Origins was, despite efforts to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate II, right down to incorporating the same banter and top-down real time with pause combat and even some of the same memes (Edwina the gender-bent bartender, "you must gather your party before venturing forth," etc.) wasn't as good.

In terms of censorship I think some of the more explicit nudity will be cut. The E3 Witcher 3 demo had full frontal during the sex scenes and some prostitute npcs in the brothel areas were fully nude or bottomless. None of that made it into the final product.

The violence will probably stay, violence especially in America violence is less taboo than nudity.

That infamous dick girl billboard that pissed of the Twitter troons is probably gone.

Nah, I think the Chromanticore advert is staying. They did a very lengthy response as to why they stood by it. CDPR are not totally infested with Clown World... yet. They probably will keep it in there. You may be right about the nudity. I remember W2 also had totally nude Triss in the infamous ruined baths scene - and yes, she was a natural ginger.

Then again, if no explicit nudity, how can you have customisable genitals? Do they just show a close-up of the character's crotch and insert a bulge if you select "girldick" or a lack thereof if you pick "manpussy." That is also going to upset the blue ticks because it's fetishising transgenders. Even though the same blue ticks count it as a major victory to have publications to refer to "female penises" and "bleeding people" because not only women menstruate.

 

[Pope Fucker]

I support the idea of not sexualizing actual females for once and only showing troons fully naked and having sex with everything that moves. If that doesn't make people stop pushing woke shit into entertainment, then nothing will.

Then again, if no explicit nudity, how can you have customisable genitals? Do they just show a close-up of the character's crotch and insert a bulge if you select "girldick" or a lack thereof if you pick "manpussy."

Maybe they'll show a genderless hologram that you can customize to your liking.

 

[emo goff]

They really are confident on getting GOTY and millions of sales based on how their media is acting.

They've got a handful of snarky memelords over in Twitter who send buzzfeed reaction memes to anyone with the slightest criticism that isn't ass-kissing. Also that Pawel dude trying to force himself as a meme with the notebook thing.

 

[Keystone]

In terms of censorship I think some of the more explicit nudity will be cut. The E3 Witcher 3 demo had full frontal during the sex scenes and some prostitute npcs in the brothel areas were fully nude or bottomless. None of that made it into the final product.

The violence will probably stay, violence especially in America is less taboo than nudity.

That infamous dick girl billboard that pissed of the Twitter troons is probably gone.

Perhaps, but you could still spot it in footage from people who got that demo build recently.

 

[MrJokerRager]

I guess the Pre Gamergate plan was that you would place as a police officer in Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[emo goff]

I guess the Pre Gamergate plan was that you would place as a police officer in Cyberpunk 2077.

You can still do side quests for the police though. Killing cyberpsychos and other baddies.
I'm gonna try and play a pro-cop route and do some cleaning up of Night city.

 

[FunPosting101]

In terms of censorship I think some of the more explicit nudity will be cut. The E3 Witcher 3 demo had full frontal during the sex scenes and some prostitute npcs in the brothel areas were fully nude or bottomless. None of that made it into the final product.

The violence will probably stay, violence especially in America is less taboo than nudity.

That infamous dick girl billboard that pissed of the Twitter troons is probably gone.

If they do censor the nudity, odds are it will be easy enough to add back in through mods. That's what I did for the witcher games and if I have to download nude mods again, well, there are worse things to have to put up with.

 

[Super Hans]

I guess the Pre Gamergate plan was that you would place as a police officer in Cyberpunk 2077.

Playing a cop and doing straight cop shit would be a dumb design decision. It completely flies in the face of the punk in cyberpunk, and just makes the cyber stuff set dressing like it was in the new Deus Ex games. Dumping that idea was a good thing, regardless of what real world bullshit is going on.

 

[WinchesterPremium]

Playing a cop and doing straight cop shit would be a dumb design decision. It completely flies in the face of the punk in cyberpunk, and just makes the cyber stuff set dressing like it was in the new Deus Ex games. Dumping that idea was a good thing, regardless of what real world bullshit is going on.

Lol cop was one of the core classes on the tabletop.

 

[FunPosting101]

Playing a cop and doing straight cop shit would be a dumb design decision. It completely flies in the face of the punk in cyberpunk, and just makes the cyber stuff set dressing like it was in the new Deus Ex games. Dumping that idea was a good thing, regardless of what real world bullshit is going on.

Thing is though, having the option to play as a cop and do cop stuff in this setting would be interesting as fuck, especially since you would inevitably have some difficult choices to make even if you try to be as an honest and forthright of a cop as possible, since Cyberpunk 2077 is a dystopian setting where the rich and powerful can order the police to kill ordinary people if they so choose.

I get that there are some incredibly good reasons why this wasn't possible with this game, CDPR has enough on their plate already, but don't be so dismissive of a cyberpunk game where you play as a cop, it has the potential to be really fun and engaging if done well.

 

[White Devil]

Let's take an incredibly niche and cult classic table top rpg in which you can do almost anything, and then limit it because ACAB I guess.

 

[FunPosting101]

Let's take an incredibly niche and cult classic table top rpg in which you can do almost anything, and then limit it because ACAB I guess.

Nah, I doubt that it was limited for that reason, this decision was likely made much earlier in the design process for this game.

 

[Super Hans]

Thing is though, having the option to play as a cop and do cop stuff in this setting would be interesting as fuck, especially since you would inevitably have some difficult choices to make even if you try to be as an honest and forthright of a cop as possible, since Cyberpunk 2077 is a dystopian setting where the rich and powerful can order the police to kill ordinary people if they so choose.

I get that there are some incredibly good reasons why this wasn't possible with this game, CDPR has enough on their plate already, but don't be so dismissive of a cyberpunk game where you play as a cop, it has the potential to be really fun and engaging if done well.

I was a bit dismissive, but going against The System, usually as a member of the Underclass, is a foundational part of the genre. You're actively going against that if you're a hired gun for The Man. Doing that instead of using the tropes of the genre would require exceptional writing, and I don't think CDPR is up to that. They write amazing vignettes, like Chapter 4 in W1 and the wedding in Hearts of Stone, but I've never thought their overarching stories stood out. It's why I have a hard time going back to W2, with how little potatoes they serve up with the meat.