2020 U.S. Presidential Election - Took place November 3, 2020. Former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden assumed office January 20, 2021.

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Jarolleon said:
I'm just hoping that those who don't know what CRT don't assume that it's basic 1960s-level anti-racism, because his rant against it coupled with that mischaracterization (propagated by Uncle Joe in the same debate) makes it very easy to imagine that Trump's version of "Americanism" is basically this poster.
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Stereotypical depictions aside, how is protecting your nation from invaders who refuse to assimilate and integrate wrong?
This isn't a U.S. thing either.
Ask the Mexicans if they like the Guatemalans invading Chiapas, Quintana Roo, and Oaxaca or if a South Korean dad will let his daughter marry a Mexican.
 
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The only reason why I watched the debate was to see how they would handle leftist assholes burning everything down in the name of BLM.

Here Trump is spitting absolute FIRE. Then Chris Wallace pretends to ignore that and goes to Biden and asks a softball question about Breonna Taylor, and then Biden starts his answer with saying "systemic injustice" and blah-blah-blah. The Dems are completely out of touch with what is going on. The race riots have to fucking end, and Biden appears to have zero interest in doing that.

 
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Someone Awful said:
I don't think Biden denouncing the riots and the All Cops Are Bastards type will hurt him to be honest. Most Americans hate riots and we already knew he started condemning it three months into it (which is too long IMO).
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The Dem activist base are all in on ACAB. If you're having a discussion about law enforcement in San Francisco or Portland and you say even a quarter of what Biden said tonight, you'll be unpersoned instantly. These are the people who Biden needs not just to vote but to volunteer for the campaign and persuade their friends and family on the social media channels and at the dinner table.

I made a post about this a while ago: a big difference between the Dems and Repubs is that Repubs used to have Evangelical Christianity as their "state religion" but they never really bought into it, except for a few people like Mike Huckabee. Dubya stopped going to church during his second term and his staff mocked the White House's faith-based initiatives department.

Now the Democrats have taken on the woke faith, and the leaders know that it's just a tool but a large portion of their rank and file party workers truly believe in it. The party fired one of its best data analysts a few months ago because he wrote that riots for left-wing causes historically drive Republican turnout. Now the party leadership know that the guy they fired was right, but many of the woke faithful now believe that the US is irredeemable and must be overthrown.

The woke fanatics have been able to hold onto a thin sliver of hope that Biden will offer them a step toward their utopia, despite all evidence that he's a purebred establishment swamp creature. Tonight Biden shattered those dreams on national TV. Wokeism is a large part of what fuels the Democrats now, and Biden is trying to put that fire out so it won't scare the voters away. This is the best choice for winning the election, but it reflects on what a terrible choice the Dems made in embracing critical theory as a way of thinking.

If you subtract woke politics from the Dems, all you have left is neoliberal globalism, which has no power to inspire anyone. There aren't enough people on the Goldman Sachs board of directors to fill all the campaign positions the Dems need to win elections. If they break the spirits of the woke, the Dem party machine will be out of gas for a long time.
 
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Vaclav said:
The Dem activist base are all in on ACAB. If you're having a discussion about law enforcement in San Francisco or Portland and you say even a quarter of what Biden said tonight, you'll be unpersoned instantly. These are the people who Biden needs not just to vote but to volunteer for the campaign and persuade their friends and family on the social media channels and at the dinner table.

I made a post about this a while ago: a big difference between the Dems and Repubs is that Repubs used to have Evangelical Christianity as their "state religion" but they never really bought into it, except for a few people like Mike Huckabee. Dubya stopped going to church during his second term and his staff mocked the White House's faith-based initiatives department.

Now the Democrats have taken on the woke faith, and the leaders know that it's just a tool but a large portion of their rank and file party workers truly believe in it. The party fired one of its best data analysts a few months ago because he wrote that riots for left-wing causes historically drive Republican turnout. Now the party leadership know that the guy they fired was right, but many of the woke faithful now believe that the US is irredeemable and must be overthrown.

The woke fanatics have been able to hold onto a thin sliver of hope that Biden will offer them a step toward their utopia, despite all evidence that he's a purebred establishment swamp creature. Tonight Biden shattered those dreams on national TV. Wokeism is a large part of what fuels the Democrats now, and Biden is trying to put that fire out so it won't scare the voters away. This is the best choice for winning the election, but it reflects on what a terrible choice the Dems made in embracing critical theory as a way of thinking.

If you subtract woke politics from the Dems, all you have left is neoliberal globalism, which has no power to inspire anyone. There aren't enough people on the Goldman Sachs board of directors to fill all the campaign positions the Dems need to win elections. If they break the spirits of the woke, the Dem party machine will be out of gas for a long time.
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And democrats being broken is a good thing. They are the one thing standing in the way of getting real problems fixed
 
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Well, the first debate was certainly something to see.

I think Biden achieved some points by making Trump look less than Presidential. Trump has been playing it straight the last few months not engaging in too many personal attacks and building support outside his base. I have a feeling a few people were turned away by the bickering last night.

On the other hand, Biden told some whoppers. He came prepared with some pretty well-manicured talking points about the Green New Deal, CRT, Climate Change, and other issues that did not accurately reflect the state of the Democrat Party. This kind of wordsmithing is normally reserved for high level issues, like foreign relations, economic / defense policy, that sort of thing. Instead, he was talking about GND as if it's just an effort to winterize some homes and ANTIFA is just an idea.

I realize I'm not the typical political spectator. After about 15 minutes, found myself wondering how many other people were seeing the red flags with Biden's description of his policies. He called the President a liar multiple times, which just made me focus in on what everyone was saying a little closer. By the second half hour, the distance between Biden and the truth was as wide as any ocean.

Specifically, these claims really hit me as separated from reality:

- ANTIFA is an idea, not an organization: I don't think the average person thinks that's true, especially anyone who lives in an area affected by destruction of property / nightly marches.

- Climate Change policy is about winterizing homes. He didn't say that's all there is to it, but that's the only example of the plan he really touted. If that's the best he had to say about it, what is he not saying?

- Critical Race Theory is diversity training. It's not. Most people who have had to sit through a training know this and hate it. The people who push for it the hardest are cultists.

- K Shaped Economy, and all the talk about whether you are better off under Trump. Most people know it's their local elected officials who are pushing the lockdowns. Hard to see how the average voter in Michigan is going to blame Trump for Whitmer's actions.

- 200,000 Covid Deaths. Sure, there's a way to argue that's the correct figure, but it depends on the numbers. If you are looking at deaths without considering co-morbidities, that number doesn't tell the real story about what's going on. At various points, it felt like he was just using it as a political weapon, he would not do anything to deal with it.

- He is the Democratic Party. Biden is a figurehead representing a set of interests and he's too old to handle the operations of a major political party. It was clear he's either delusional or a front man for something more sinister.

Really upset with Biden right now. This was smoke and mirrors, Motte and Bailey stuff. I know the press will look at these claims uncritically, he's relying on a corrupt press to provide cover for him. This is not how to run a campaign unless you are trying to destroy America.
 
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The Trump campaign have been hard at work clipping the debate into soundbites

https://www.youtube.com/Donaldtrump/videos
https://archive.vn/wip/MlvqT
1601461981093.png
 
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Shroom King said:
And Americans just need to look to Europe to see how wonderful neoliberal globalism truly is.
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Not really. Most of those countries are social democratic and are generally moving towards limiting immigration more, especially anywhere east of Germany.

Neoliberalism originally came from the Friedman school of economics and was very much against the sort of welfare states most places in Europe have.
 
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freshjapanesestyleudon said:
listen to how timidly joe responds when trump's hounding him, like a scared and confused hospital patient who has wandered out into the street and gotten lost

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Biden also didn't have an answer to Trump calling him out on calling blacks "Super Predators and worse than that" a while back. He just looked down on his podium.
 
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Polyboros2 said:
It seemed like his tactic this debate was to confront him on positions his base is rabid over that's toxic to the moderates. Mainly over the riots and police(ACAB types are gonna hate him saying most cops are good people), and a bit on the Green New Deal.
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Trump's stance seemed to be to get Biden to break ranks with the rabid left. Antifa, Anti-Cop, Green New Deal, etc etc. Trump even had a zinger ready for it. "Oh, you just lost the radical left." Attacking the already rock bottom enthusiasm levels for Joe.


As mentioned by @Harvey Danger in the TDS thread, Biden's strategy appeared to be to get another sound byte they could remove all context out of, like the Charlottesville "Fine People" Hoax or the Inject Bleach Hoax, so they could have their allies in the media play it up constantly. Biden even brought a few of them up during the debate.

Harvey Danger said:
I re-watched the debate clip, and noticed something. Wallace pushes for the condemnation of white supremacy, Trump says "sure", and then Wallace keeps pushing him to actually do it. At this point, Biden turns to look at Trump, something he's been avoiding all night in favor of staring straight ahead.

When Trump says "give me a name" to condemn specifically, it was actually Biden who suggested the Proud Boys. So Trump fires off "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by, but I'll tell you what, somebody has to do something about Antifa!"

And Biden breaks into the biggest smile of the night.
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I think this was a setup. Biden was prepared for this, he specifically wanted to get a PB condemnation out of Trump tonight. When he got it, he got the "mission accomplished" attitude and let Wallace roll with the rest. Trump took the bait, and that "non-condemnation" is all the talking heads are focusing on. Now the PB themselves seem to be taking the bait as well.

I don't know what the end game is, but this was clearly a goal of Biden's performance tonight. He wasn't going for canned zingers like a normal debate prep. He was going for traps, and this one snagged its target.
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The media is already snagging on that, and the talking point appears to have already gone out. They were ready and waiting for it.

Basically, Biden went in hoping to get Trump to say something out of context they could use as another "fine people." And the second Biden thinks he has one, his mask slips, ever so slightly.


Do I think this is a win for Biden? Not really. It takes too much twisting to make it punchy. They're gonna have to stretch to make it work.

Trump, on the other hand, got Biden's mask of "I'm the cool calm and collected candidate" to shatter. He basically went "down" to Trump's level. The biggest reaction to everyone right afterwards, before any talking head spin, was "oh god they're both like that."

We already knew Trump was like that. Trump supporters knew Trump was like that. Trump opponents knew Trump was like that. PEOPLE FROM SPACE knew Trump was Trump.

But now everyone knows Biden is basically Trump, too. And unlike Trump, Biden was making direct personal attacks against Trump. In other words, he was worse than Trump in some ways.

How will this change the undecideds and moderates, now that instead of the choice between "Trump, warts and all" and "Generic Faceless Professional Democrat Guy" became "Trump" and "Genuine Imitation Soy Trump Product?"

Dunno. But the left is already pretty damned upset at the debate. The right thinks it was great.


Even the fucking Reagan Battallion is on Trump's side this time, fact checking Biden.

1601467969344.png

 
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Vaclav said:
The Dem activist base are all in on ACAB. If you're having a discussion about law enforcement in San Francisco or Portland and you say even a quarter of what Biden said tonight, you'll be unpersoned instantly. These are the people who Biden needs not just to vote but to volunteer for the campaign and persuade their friends and family on the social media channels and at the dinner table.

I made a post about this a while ago: a big difference between the Dems and Repubs is that Repubs used to have Evangelical Christianity as their "state religion" but they never really bought into it, except for a few people like Mike Huckabee. Dubya stopped going to church during his second term and his staff mocked the White House's faith-based initiatives department.

Now the Democrats have taken on the woke faith, and the leaders know that it's just a tool but a large portion of their rank and file party workers truly believe in it. The party fired one of its best data analysts a few months ago because he wrote that riots for left-wing causes historically drive Republican turnout. Now the party leadership know that the guy they fired was right, but many of the woke faithful now believe that the US is irredeemable and must be overthrown.

The woke fanatics have been able to hold onto a thin sliver of hope that Biden will offer them a step toward their utopia, despite all evidence that he's a purebred establishment swamp creature. Tonight Biden shattered those dreams on national TV. Wokeism is a large part of what fuels the Democrats now, and Biden is trying to put that fire out so it won't scare the voters away. This is the best choice for winning the election, but it reflects on what a terrible choice the Dems made in embracing critical theory as a way of thinking.

If you subtract woke politics from the Dems, all you have left is neoliberal globalism, which has no power to inspire anyone. There aren't enough people on the Goldman Sachs board of directors to fill all the campaign positions the Dems need to win elections. If they break the spirits of the woke, the Dem party machine will be out of gas for a long time.
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And the condescending thing is that liberals now think conservatives should just be satisfied with Dubya, McCain, Romney, and all the other RINO losers they could bully into submission. They want a "conservative" party like Canada's: one that will only put up some token, namby-pamby resistance to a radical agenda before folding like a cheap suitcase.
 
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Grandpa Simpson said:
The main debates won't do much. You've had 4 years of constant "Trump two scoops, Trump Russia, Trump Doo doo head" I'm doubtful whether some debate is going to change anyones minds considering the propaganda they've been subjected to over such a length of time.. Biden simply had to hold his own with Wallace backing up and he's fine. The medias convinced those on side that it's acceptable to have a impartial host helping a Presidential candidate now. The VP debate will be interesting one.
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Both candidates were trying to energize their base and discourage their opponent's. Few, if any, minds were changed with this one and that's the intent. Either someone has given up or both candidate's positions are on the edge of pulling a win if they don't piss anyone off.
 
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Bunny Tracks said:
It wasn't even really a debate.

It was just Trump and Wallace yelling at each other with Biden occasionally joining in.
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It would have been more hilarious if Trump looked at Wallace directly and said, "Even FOX is fake news with hacks like you." And then he proceeds to wail on Biden.
 
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Meat Target said:
And the condescending thing is that liberals now think conservatives should just be satisfied with Dubya, McCain, Romney, and all the other RINO losers they could bully into submission. They want a "conservative" party like Canada's: one that will only put up some token, namby-pamby resistance to a radical agenda before folding like a cheap suitcase.
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I'd argue that Canada's political landscape vs America's is due (in part) to Canada being a parliamentary system. Since instead of being an all or nothing race, it's about getting the maximum number of seats, and so taking the most milquetoast broad appeal policies is going to be the de-facto choice for political parties. Also, the viability of running as a 3rd party (like the NDP) means that they don't have the same degree of fractured internal party politics, like what was seen in the Democrat party this year between the wokes and the neolibs.

/off-topic Canadian politics rant over

On topic on the debates, my jaw dropped when Biden refused to answer the court packing question asked by Wallace. I know it won't impact Joe's voting core, but to someone who is undecided it must leave an impact.
 
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