Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[SuiSui1]

Another thing about Jabba's palace was the song. "Lapti Nek." George was like "I want music number, John (Williams), write something that sounds like space disco." And John replied "I hate disco." and had his son write it. The original was different than the movie and was on the laser disc of ROTJ.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Another thing about Jabba's palace was the song. "Lapti Nek." George was like "I want music number, John (Williams), write something that sounds like space disco." And John replied "I hate disco." and had his son write it. The original was different than the movie and was on the laser disc of ROTJ.

I'll always remember this song in my nightmares, thanks to Battlefront II playing it nonstop whenever you would be playing Heroes vs Villains on Tatooine. It was like Pandemic was trying to burn the song into the skulls of players...sadistic fucks.

 

[Miller]

You'll find no shortage of Twi'lek connoisseurs around here, good sir.

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Spoiler: Indeed

 

[Flexo]

Spoiler: Indeed

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Spoiler

Still the header image for

Breast/Legends

We're just having another dinner." [breastfeeding Jaina]"They eat like starving Wookiees. Jacen done already?""Just wanted a snack, I guess. He'll probably want the second course in an hour or so.""I wish they'd get together on scheduling." [Jacen grips his finger] "He's going to be a strong...

starwars.fandom.com

 

[Wyzzerd]

I approve of the new direction this thread is going. It gives a nice reprieve from usual Disney drudgery.

I'll take twilek titties over anus faced disney aliens any day.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I approve of the new direction this thread is going. It gives a nice reprieve from usual Disney drudgery.

I'll take twilek titties over anus faced disney aliens any day.

The best-kept Jedi secrets are the finest..........

 

[Commander X]

I could tell that Star Wars Squadrons game was gonna be bad because none of the main characters are white men and the only time people do that now, instead of for any innocent reason, is out of spite to own "the gamers".

Xbox used to be the Mountain Dew console where people yelled fagat at each other now it's this, where people act enthused because the "writer" of the latest SW game is going on about how a character's preferred pronouns are "they/them".

Remember when people said that this was just a trend that would go away soon? There's no incentive for these people to quit it, so they'll never stop. You can't debate them into being le epic redpill people or whatever because there's no incentive to be that, the corporations love the "SJW" shit now. After 2015 this shit is beyond repair ,people who normally would be against this shit got embarrassed over being accused of being G*m*rg*t*rs and started pretending to agree with all the insane people until it wasn't an act anymore and now everything on the internet is Tumblr.

 

[Getting tard comed]

Idk, the game looks fun to play based on a couple streams I've caught of it. Balance is a little wacky and its limited in scope. But for $30 that's not bad. $40 is pushing the value imo unfortunately. Gameplay looks fun but they skimped out on features and I have no idea why. They could include more in updates but I dont think the game will last that long unfortunately.

 

[Miller]

After 2015 this shit is beyond repair

The activists took over the industry that they hated so they could become the gatekeepers. The entertainment belongs to them now, there's no going back.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

So after much delay, I’ve finally managed to chew my way through LOTF: Fury, just in time for me to have a much-needed chunk of free time to voice my full impressions on it. With me having reached the final three books in the story arc, it’s given me the opportunity to assess each author’s strengths and weaknesses as I go through their final contributions to the series. And let me tell you, after the middling dud that was LOTF: Exile, I wasn’t looking forward to another jaunt through the narrative pastures of Aaron Alliston. That book had been a sizeable step downward in quality from his efforts on Betrayal, thanks to his insistence snapping the tone clean in half with the kind of cringe-inducing Whedon-esque humor that’s woefully unwelcome in a story as bleak as this…coupled with a meandering plot that felt like it was spinning its wheels. So you could imagine my waning enthusiasm when I opened his final book, and saw that it was an agonizing thirty-eight chapters long.

But to my surprise, aside from a somewhat slow start, the book was actually quite good, matching the quality of Betrayal and continuing the story in engaging fashion. Granted, there’s still the odd tonal shift every here and there—but it’s far more acceptable this time around thanks to the author choosing not to create any one-off gag characters, and instead reserve most instances of levity for returning characters, more specifically his own pilot characters from the X-Wing novels…you know, the exact people who would be involved in a Core World conflict like this. With a tighter focus on plot and less on filler or bad comedy, Alliston focuses the story largely on Jacen’s attempts to remedy his defeat in the previous book, and the rapid degradation of the Corellian Confederacy as the war starts wrenching out of their favor. Cornered and flung into a state of panicking and squabbling in the aftermath of Der Gejjen’s death, Corellia’s High Command turns their efforts to a desperate, suicidal endeavor of reviving Centerpoint Station—now finnicky and in danger of imploding with absence of Anakin Solo or any sort of duplicate to mandate firing commands. We witness Corellia’s leaders turn on each other, some questioning the ethical nature of enacting Coruscanti Genocide to end the war quickly, while others pushed to feverish desperation go to lethal extent to use the weapon and shield their loved ones from the thrall of Alliance Aggression. It’s essentially the hypothetical equivalent of watching the Southern Confederacy slip into panic and disarray, if Jefferson Davis had been assassinated and the Rebel Army was on its last legs. Alliston characterizes this internal panic and disarray quite well…although, it’s only relegated to a few chapters towards the ass end of the book, with him dedicating it mostly to the drama of the main characters. I’m personally fine with that compromise, but feel that if the series’ pace hadn’t been thrown off by Exile, there would’ve been more time to focus on this.

On the plus side, Alliston dedicates a lot of the book to fleshing out Jaina and Jag’s slowly repairing romance, which is fitting: after all, it was Alliston who effectively escalated their relationship in the first place during NJO, so it’s no surprise that he handles their interactions really well, as will be detailed later.

Spoiler: Obligatory Civil War Reference

I know, it’s been a long time since I stumbled onto one of these, but in my defense, the conflict serving as the backdrop of the series kind of took a backseat after after Sacrifice, and the interpersonal character drama brought about by Mara Jade’s death took center stage. And I’m mostly fine with that—the characters are the source of 90% of my investment in LOTF, so I have no issues with narrative priorities being shifted to focus on them. But I kind of wish that Inferno, and even Sacrifice itself had balanced the character drama with the surrounding conflict a little better. Regardless, we see that the Corellian Confederacy is not doing well following the death of Dur Gejjen, and it’s increasingly being backed into a corner by Alliance Forces. They’re growing weaker and more desperate, so taxed for resources and manpower that Wedge Antilles even remarks that retired soldiers are being assigned to obsolete battle cruisers like Victory-class Venator Star Destroyers, and ferried off to the battlefield. This of course rings true of how the American Civil War was taking its toll on the South during the latter half, who are also pushed to desperation and floundering resource-management as time goes on…going through recruits like potato chips, and appropriating food and supplies from even distinguished plantations to service the war effort.

And just like the South, the Corellians realize the absolute economic nightmare of having to rebuild themselves should they surrender, knowing that the reparations demanded by the Alliance will leave them in poverty for generations. The very notion boils the blood of the Corellian upper brass, who see it as penance thrust upon them for being the perceived sole culprits of the war starting, which deliberately ignores how the Alliance fanned the flames of war as well. Again, a striking parallel to the war fought on American soil, where both sides are determined to wash themselves of any accountability when it comes to starting the war, and unyieldingly blame the opposition even in the ravaged period of the conflict.

Spoiler: Miscellaneous Things Of Note

-The Lingering Impact Of Sacrifice: A moment that was a real punch to the gut was when Luke Skywalker is shown engaged in a space battle, and he looks outside his X-Wing, and is hit with a flash of mournful remembrance as he realizes Mara isn’t there to fly beside him into battle this time.

-What Could Have Been: We see Han silently lamenting that he’ll never be able to pass the Millennium Falcon, his legacy, to Jacen. We delve into the silent emotions he never verbally expresses through his coarse external persona, about how telling himself that Jacen’s effectively dead to him doesn’t break his heart any less.

-Death Star Wreckage, But Not Retarded: When visiting the Jedi Order’s makeshift hiding place on the moon of Endor, we also witness the effects on Endor from Second Death Star exploding overhead—burning debris left burnmarks in the moon’s terrain, which passing ships use as organic landing points. A significantly but not comically large portion of the Death Star is half embedded in a mass crater deep within the Endor forests, burnt black beyond use or recognition and with layers of forestation covering it up…serving as an aesthetic reminder of that battle, but nothing more. Take notes, Chris Terrio—this is how you make use of the Death Star without it being completely fucking stupid.

-Jacen vs Kyle Fucking Katarn: So, Kyle Katarn has made sporadic appearances throughout the post-Endor EU novels, largely in minor speaking roles and cameo fodder scenes…which actually isn’t the fault of the writers, from what I understand. I’ve researched and found that Del Rey shackled most of the writers into refraining from writing anything significant with Kyle, as they didn’t want to infringe on a possible Jedi Knight sequel that never ended up getting made. Thus, you can imagine my surprise when Kyle was not only assigned to lead a Strike Team on Jacen Solo, but got to fight the wayward son of Han and Leia in a one-to-one lightsaber duel. Much like Aurra Sing fighting Jacen in Tempest, it’s one of those scenes that I’d never dream I’d ever read, and it put a massive grin on my face…and also speaks volumes about Jacen’s combat abilities, to be able to hold his own against a squad of Jedi led by the Order’s Battlemaster, almost killing the latter as well. You have to give Katarn some major props—his rogues gallery now includes the Sith Inquisitor Jerec, Dark Jedi like Dessan and Tavion, and now Jacen Solo. As someone who only followed Kyle’s exploits in the games, that fucking blows my mind.

Spoiler: A Colossal, And Sadly Irreconcilable Plot Hole

Unfortunately, this leads into what is quite possibly the only blatant example of a gaping plot hole I’ve encountered in LOTF, which is absolutely painful to acknowledge: what fucking lightsaber is Jacen using in this scene?

We learn a few chapters later that he has yet to construct his red Sith lightsaber, which is after the Katarn Duel. So like me, you’re probably thinking: “Oh, well, then it must be his signature green one that he’s been using throughout the series up till now.” Nope. The last time we saw that saber was during the duel with Luke aboard Jacen’s star cruiser in the previous book Inferno, which culminated in Ben Skywalker almost killing his cousin with his own lightsaber, only for Luke to persuade him not to and take the saber away from him…which means, he still has that lightsaber in his possession.

This leads me to two possibilities: either A) Luke didn’t hold onto Jacen’s saber, leaving it behind aboard his starship, B) that Jacen has a spare saber that he uses between the theft of his original and the creation of his Sith one, or C) Aaron Alliston didn’t fucking pay attention to the events of the previous book, and completely forgot that Jacen had his lightsaber confiscated by Luke.

This is probably the most glaring continuity flub I’ve encountered so far, and it’s not a negligible one considering that Katarn and his Jedi Agents attack Jacen when he shouldn’t be armed, and should’ve stood an easier chance of overwhelming and killing him. It’s a problem that’s easily plugged in by the possibilities I’ve mentioned above, but it’s the kind of detail that would get lambasted in Disney’s current films, and rightfully so. It’s the only bitter disappointment I’ve encountered with this series, and I don’t know why more people don’t talk about it.

Spoiler: Force Projection…Kinda

So, something akin to the Force Projection occurred in Dark Nest, when Luke and his friends were outrunning a massive enemy force in space, prompting Luke to use a technique called Force Doppelganger—a mass illusion technique in which he created a false projection of an enemy fleet to trick his pursuers into being distracted. Unlike the ST, the illusion he created cannot physically interact with the individuals it’s deceiving…and more to the point, conjuring up an illusion of that scale saps Luke of energy, leaving him malnourished, peaky and eyes reddened feverishly, and rendering him an immobile wreck. So we saw an extremely powerful Force User demonstrate an ability that would otherwise be fucking stupid, countered by the implementation of extreme consequence.

However, a more tangible Force Projection technique akin to the ST appears in this book, when Alema Rar retreats to Lumiya’s hideout on Bimmiel to access all of the Sith tomes and data she’s collected over the years…and absorbs a technique called Force Phantom. This allows the user can project themselves over great distances, and physically interact with things and do battle. Now, why is this not a problem in the same way that the Force Projection is in the ST? Well, because the writer actually placed some parameters around it to keep it from being narratively exploited. For one, it’s specifically described as a Dark Side Ability, and a fucking obscure one at that…pioneered by a Sith who spent his whole life in solitude perfecting it, Darth Vivictus. It’s even referred to by the Sith on Korriban as a “lost technique”, with many disbelieving the rumors that Alema used it, denouncing it as a fable and Vevictus as “a fraud of history”. So clearly, it’s not even in common use among the Sith themselves, if at all. Secondly, it is implied that Vevictus (and later, Allema) are only able to pull off the Force Phantom technique by drawing upon the dark energy of Vevictus’ own Sith sanctuary on Bimmiel, so it isn’t something that can be pulled off anywhere the user pleases…they need to be on Bimmiel. Thirdly, Alema is shown to require days of sleep to replenish herself, since the more physical movement she subjects her phantom body to strains her real one. And it’s also incredibly believable why someone as deranged and hungry for revenge as Alema would try to exploit this power at hazardous levels that even a normal Sith wouldn’t, since she’s already shown dabbling in illusions and memory wipes throughout this series. And finally, neither she nor Lumiya—the only people with knowledge of this technique—outlive this series, letting the secret die with her. In short, we have circumstantial explanations and careful implementation of consequences to prevent this ability from being exploited for something like the fucking Force Projection circus that we see in TROS. So I’ll happily applaud the authors for that.

Spoiler: Alema’s Death

After being a thorn in the character’s side for over ten books like the Sith equivalent of Team Rocket, Alema finally meets her end—over-exerting herself through multiple attempted Force Phantoms, staving off both Jaina’s strike team and the Korriban Sith hounding her. Cornered in the cold bowels of Bimmiel and, she faces Jagged Fel alone, thinking she can get the upper hand on the lone non-Force Sensitive in the group; but after successfully blowing off her arm blown off in remarkably un-Allistonian and gory fashion, Jag gets the upper hand on her…literally, by grabbing her throat (without entertaining thoughts of mercy, something I found quite gratifying and suitable, considering Jag’s pragmatic Imperial background in contrast to his Jedi companions). Crippled, alone, and with full knowledge that she has nowhere left to scuttle to, no backdoor or scummy maneuver to help her survive, she finally relents. As she’s strangled, she passes a telepathic plea to Jag, asking to be remembered as she used to be, “young, beautiful, strong, brave, admirable…loved.”

It was a surprisingly moving send-off for a minor character. Alema was never the most deep or narratively-rich character, but she was certainly enjoyable to read…and one of the more fun creations by Troy Denning.

Rest in piece, you abominable space thot.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Spoiler: The Most “Solo” Of The Solo Children

There’s a really good character examination, given attention by Jagged Fel of all people. The books have really struggled to give Jag something substantial to do following his exile from the Chiss Ascendancy, as he mostly just tags along with Jaina and competes with Zekk for her affections (mostly for gags, as the story’s basically confirmed that Zekk occupies a permanent place in the friend zone). But Jag shows evidence that he knows Jaina better than most, as when Leia confronts him about why her daughter’s been acting so cold and dispassionate, he explains that it’s because she thinks that’s what’s required of her to be the Sword Of The Jedi. She believes that at some point, she’ll have to be the one to confront Jacen—and she needs to completely purge herself of emotional hang-ups in order to do it successfully…that “any distraction could now could be fatal for her when final duel occurs.”

What I like about this is that, much like Inferno, the story is actually doing something with that status that was bestowed upon Jaina back in NJO. But also like how the other characters, especially Jag, are really uncomfortable with this approach. For one, it’s a repeat of how she emotionally closed herself off during the events of NJO, taking an extreme precaution in maintaining a distance from anyone so their loss doesn’t distract her from the war at hand. And just like then, Jag views it as something unhealthy and cold-blooded, saying that even in the service of realizing her destiny as Sword of the Jedi, the callous behavior might have a lasting effect on her character:

“I’m trying to find a way to tell her that if you sharpen a sword all the time, even when it’s not dull…it will eventually break. But she’s not listening.”​

When Leia asks Jag why he hasn’t any success reaching out to Jaina, to make her see reason, he says:

“She doesn’t learn from words…she only learns from success. And failure.”​

What’s neat about this is that it really taps into the core of Jaina’s character. A common complaint I’ve read from EU nay-sayers (and Disney Drones) is that the character is “too bland”, in that her stubborn fighter attitude doesn’t lend itself to any narrative depth. But instances like this are why I disagree. Jaina was explicitly singled out by the writers as the least philosophically or intellectually-driven of the three Solo Children. She’s not tied down with the ethical dilemmas of Jacen, or the self-righteous aims of Anakin. She’s very simple and straightforward in her thinking—to her own detriment. She likes fixing things and piloting, and favors any dilemma she can solve with a wrench or from a cockpit. When a complex, emotionally-stunting or morally-grey dilemma is presented to her, something that doesn’t have an easy solution, she retreats. She doesn’t know how to cope with it, and thus falls into herself. This is not something that the writers yanked out of nowhere; in NJO, when she doesn’t know how to cope with Anakin’s death on Myrkrr, she starts to isolate herself and detach herself from her loved ones…largely to spare herself the knifing grief of loss all over again. Back then, she had Jagged Fel to yank her back, and support her romantically. And that’s how Jaina, for all of her self-proclaimed independence and toughness…she emotionally depends on other people, whether she’ll admit it or not.

These aspects are, funnily enough, something Jaina shares with her father, Han…and arguably why she bears the most resemblance to him out of all the Solo Children. Because of that, people have accused Jaina of being overly-simplistic and bland…someone who doesn’t lend herself to interesting stories. But I’m of the opinion that you can absolutely subject a simple character to in-depth or interesting scenarios to make up for it.

Jaina’s an example of how to succeed at this…while Rey is a definitive example of how to fail spectacularly at it.

Spoiler: Regarding Tahiri

We get a statement that paints a very clear picture in how Jacen views Tahiri, at least at this stage of the story:

“Tahiri still [had no leads] for Caedus; it was a big galaxy and she was, in his eyes, a stupid girl—and a needy one, constantly importuning him for new chances to flow-walk into the past and reexperience the wonders of Anakin Solo in the days and hours before her death”​

Through this, we see that Jacen is very clearly taking advantage of her traumatic, needy status to achieve his own ends…seeing her as a living commodity, and not as any sort of apprentice. And that’s all well and good…but we’re only told about this. Which only adds to the frustration that Tahiri is only ever mentioned in this book and isn’t seen or heard from throughout its entirety. For anyone that has followed my rants on this topic already, you can guess how aggravating this was, particularly after Troy Denning made a commendable effort to finally give her something to do in the previous novel. Given her ties to the family drama at hand, you would think that Aaron Alliston might’ve considered trimming down some of the pointless shit concerning his Wraith Squadron characters to give her more focus. But more importantly, assuming that Revelations and Invincible make narrative use of Tahiri, it will mean that she only played a significant role in three of the nine books. I know I’ve ranted about this at great length, but if the writers weren’t going to have this character do anything of worth past her arc in NJO, why keep her around? For the love of God, don’t just reduce her to eye-rolling levels of Ahsoka cameo fodder…give her something to do. This character has so much unrealized narrative potential that the writers are just fucking teasing. And what’s worse, is that beyond LOTF, there are only ten more books concerning the major on-goings of Luke’s New Jedi Order. All I’ll say is that the writers better make use of this character before the timeline leaps a century towards the Legacy comics, otherwise I’ll be fucking livid.

Spoiler: More TLJ Luke Parallels

Thankfully, a lot of my qualms are made up by special attention paid to Luke Skywalker, who is still shown undergoing his crisis of faith. While the other Masters have come around on Luke and don’t appear to regard him as the same, emotionally-incapacitated wreck that he was in the immediate aftermath of Mara’s death, he still doesn’t believe he’s suitable for leadership. A quiet, terrified part of him believes that if he confronts Jacen again, he’ll give into the same bloodthirsty anger that arose when he killed Lumiya…and this time, his impressionable son—already steeped with dark side impulses as shown at the end of Inferno—might just be influenced to take after his father’s grotesque behavior. It’s a believable dilemma for a parent and Jedi Leader like Luke, and he struggles with it for most of the book, turning down the opportunity offered by the likes of Kyp Durron and Corran Horn to lead the attack against Jacen. They watch in confusion as their unyieldingly powerful Grand Master turns down every opportunity to kill his nephew himself, shrinking away feebly and leaving the task to anyone but him. I touched on this in my previous post, but this scenario kind of reminds me of another instance where Luke turns down the chance to face his own nephew…except here, it’s not written by a complete retard. But I typed a small novel about that already, so I won’t bother retreading.

And the Force was silent. It seemed like forever since it had shown him any guidance about the bigger picture. All it offered him these days was guidance for the immediate problems, the here and now. It had been that way since—for how long? Since Mara’s death at least.

Perhaps he could no longer read the Force. Perhaps it chose not to speak to him anymore.

And if that was true, he could not remain the Grand Master of the Order. He would lead the Jedi into ruin.​

One thing that stood out to me and completely took me by surprise was another moment where the story acknowledged the broken, emotionally-devastated “Jake Skywalker” state that Luke is in following Mara’s death. It’s a scene where Ben is talking to his father, exposing the depressed state he’s in and saying that he isn’t as proactive and determined as he was before:

Ben shook his head. “You’re still not you. People are asking questions. Things like, ‘When is Luke Skywalker going to find his center and make things better again?’ Nobody knows what to tell them.”

“Make things better?” Luke tried not to let his surprise show, but it crept into his voice. “You mean snap my fingers, end this war, and cause flower petals to rain down on all civilized worlds?”​

Now, I want you think about TLJ for a moment, and tell me if you can think of a line in that film that rings eerily similar to Luke’s quote up there. Because all I could think of was Luke’s retarded “laser sword” comment from TLJ, the one where Rian Johnson tries to make some hipster statement about what Star Wars Fanboys want out of the character. We see the LOTF writers give Luke the same dilemma and line verbatim, but there’s a massive difference: context and execution. The Luke we see giving this same line in LOTF is just as broken and rendered emotionally-capsized as the one from TLJ, but he hasn’t abandoned his loyalties to the Jedi Order or his family. In other words, you have Luke having this crisis of faith, and downplaying his own importance to the galaxy, but he comes off as far less of a cunt doing so because he hasn’t turned selfishly turned his back on the world. You can actually sympathize with his situation a little more, and understand the message being put across, made even more potent by the way the exchange between Luke and Ben ensues:

“No, I think they just mean, when are you going to finally going to really take charge again? Of the Jedi, our role in the war? Lead, not just direct? Because that will make a difference.”

Luke felt his spirits sag even lower. “Oh, Ben. They’re asking that sort of question out of a misguided sense of what I can accomplish. They’ve based their impressions of what I can do on things that happened when I was a younger man with blind luck and boundless energy…and when you could count all the known Force-users in the galaxy on one hand. Other Jedi can do what I do.”

“No, they can’t,” Ben said. “They can’t be Luke Skywalker.”

And just like TLJ, the story implies that Luke is having morbid, even muted suicidal thoughts…a sense of detachment to the world now that the thing he loved most is no longer with him. Only instead of it being a bunch of faceless students, it’s his wife. Ben Skywalker is even shown calling him out on this, after Luke admits that he’s considering passing the torch of Grandmaster to someone else:

“You want to be with Mom.”

“Of course I do. Don’t you?”

“Yes, but for me it’s different. I want her to be here, with us.” Ben stopped midstride and whirled to face his father. “You want to be with her where she is.”

“What do you mean?”

“You want to be dead. At peace. With her. Dead.”

“That’s ridiculous.”

“No, it isn’t. When Uncle Han and Aunt Leia told us that Mom’s killer was dead, you should have said: ‘Now I can get back to work’. Instead, you’re saying: ‘Now I can turn over the Jedi Order to someone who’s worthy’. You’re getting ready to die. Problem is, you don’t have an incurable disease, or a blaster pressed against your head. So how’s it going to happen?” His voice cracked at the final word.

“Ben, that’s… You’re just leaping to the wrong conclusion.” Luke struggled for the right argument to make this a ridiculous notion. But the argument wasn’t there.

“That’s what attachment is, isn’t it?” Ben’s words were finally pouring from him like water running through a shattered dam. “It’s not loving somebody, or marrying somebody, or not having kids. It’s where if something goes wrong, there’s nothing left of you. Where if the one you love goes away, you start functioning like a droid with a restraining bolt installed. Mom wouldn’t want you to be this way. So why are you?”

“I can’t help it.” Luke was on his feet and the words were wrenched out of him before he realized it, unbalanced by the sudden violence of his emotions.

Ben spun around to him. “You’ve got to!”

“How?”

“You’re the Jedi Master, not me.”

Luke felt real anger stir within him, a fire fanned by the insolence in Ben’s tone. No, that was another lie Luke was telling himself: The fire was being fanned by the fact that Ben was right.​

This exchange works for a wealth of reasons that TLJ does not. For one, Luke isn’t bitterly arguing his case with some nobody like Rey, who doesn’t understand him or possesses any real history with him to be a suitable counter to his “broken” mentality….he’s arguing with his son (who after this conversation, demonstrates how wise he’s become, and how ready he is to become a Jedi Knight). There’s family drama in this exchange, both bitter and enriching for the characters involved, and suitable given how well one knows the other. But more importantly, the writing is strong and well-communicated enough to allow us as the audience to understand Luke’s perspective, the pain and anguish he’s going through…instead of the mixed messages and tonal disparity plaguing Rian Johnson’s garbage script. It gets even better when in the same discussion, Luke realizes that he has indeed been subconsciously patching his grief with an unspoken need to die and rejoin Mara in the Force…a survivor’s guilt that’s relatable and easy to grasp. But at the same time, he realizes that he’s been turning his back on his real responsibilities—his son, his Jedi Order, on the living people around him. And by letting himself be consumed with his grief and being an inactive husk, he’s not just betraying those people…but betraying the memory of Mara as well.

That’s it. That’s all we needed as the audience, for Luke to internally realize that betrayal for himself, internally begging Mara for forgiveness. No static utterings like “I was weak, I was blind” or Ghost Yoda bonking him over the head…but a serious, potent, and in-character moment of realization that’s given the reverence it deserves. Luke is put in the same situation as TLJ, and coming to the same epiphany…but using emotional pathos and narrative nuance that we as the audience can feel with him, without it being lost in translation by way of poor writing or tonal whiplash.

Again, the more I read LOTF, the more it reads like a version of the ST that was written pre-emptively in the mid-2000’s to make the actual films look like complete shit. They handle virtually every single concept of the Sequels, from a Solo child going dark, to Force Projection, to a disillusioned and mourning Luke Skywalker, except they do it a thousand times more believably and with an actual understanding of the world and characters.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Spoiler: Jacen Solo & His Mario Puzo-Style Familial Turmoil

Jacen, meanwhile, is shown internally reeling from Tenel Ka’s betrayal of him in the previous book, the Hapan Forces wrenched from his successful campaign of Coruscanti Aggression and having no one left in the galaxy save for his daughter, Allana. When his Sith pragmatism demands that he resumes his mission to end the war, he decides to crush the remaining emotional hang-ups he has left, and proceeds to kidnap Allana…in order to blackmail Tenel Ka into surrendering the Hapan Fleet. Considering Jacen has already sacrificed everything to service his obsession with achieving galactic peace, it comes as no surprise that he would offer the tattered remnants of whatever possible future he could have with Tenel Ka; after all, a recurring thought gnawing on his mind in the previous books is the inevitability of his Sith Persona becoming public, and Tenel Ka cutting all ties with him…including shielding their daughter from him. This was always going to happen, and he knew it…but now that Tenel Ka is getting in the way of his goals, he’s now deciding to forward that inevitability to the present.

Tenel Ka is of course portrayed as horrified and anguished at new lows her husband has sunk to, having already witnessed his actions over Kashyyyk. And when he leaves a message to her with his demands, in typical emotionally-manipulative Jacen fashion, he uses it as an opportunity to punish Tenel Ka, to absolve himself of any fault and paint himself as the person whose hand was forced:

“At Kuat, you put me into an untenable situation. Being abandoned to my enemies, abandoned by one for whom I had considerable affection and respect…[so] I’m going to return the favor. You have a choice to make, like the one you forced upon me. You will put all Hapan military forces under my command…[or] your daughter will die.

By doing what you did to me, you changed me into someone capable of doing exactly what I have promised.”

This terrifying behavior of the self-assured and obsessive father prying the children from the mother he no longer trusts reminds me of Michael Corleone’s behavior at the end of the Godfather II. He’s reached the point in his isolation, his mad obsession, where he’s even able to use his own offspring as bargaining tools to punish the mother…all in the name of what he believes is right, what the mother is standing in the way of.

Moreover, the paranoia that Allema had speculated on in the previous book is starting to become more and more present in Jacen’s behavior, particularly around his daughter. He migrates her constantly, smuggling her in secret under mountainous security, seeing everything as a threat to her. Even when Leia turns up to try and reach out to him on his command ship, his first thought is the possibility that she—as a terrorist who’s already corrupted his wife—may have discovered Allana’s identity as his daughter. And following Leia’s sudden disappearance, with Jacen’s guards report the possibility that she smuggled an infiltration team over to plant something on his ship…and his mind immediately swerves to a bomb.

I haven’t really delved into this when covering the previous books, but the sparse moments Jacen spends with his daughter are incredibly sweet, and remind us that a part of him—in fact, the worst and most paranoid part of him—is till human, and loves her. She still has no idea that he’s her father, and Jacen only gets to manifest his affection for her in short bursts, but it’s always in a touching and protective way. The way he oversimplifies a hazardous situations to make her feel better, the way he desperately tries to fill the void of her mother by doting on her with toys and luxuries, how he sanitizes all of his gruesome duties as “work” for her sake, and even little things like keeping her on his lap during their escape. She’s the last thing in his life worth having—with his friends, mentors, family and comrades having turned against him in his twisted mind—and therefore, the story shows how much he treasures her. You almost wonder what kind of father he could’ve made in another life where he’d made different choices. And that’s what makes these moments, small as they are, so valuable: with how unrecognizably callous and calculating Jacen’s become—having long abandoned the squirming guilt and remorse that characterized his internal thoughts in earlier books—these moments serve as the only pockets of respite, the comforting and sad reminders of of the person he used to be, and the person he could have been.

It leads some of the most sobering moments in the book, where Jacen is racing through a hectic space battle to get his daughter to safety, and in the distant battle, Allana says that she senses that “someone just left. Tons of people.” She unknowingly senses the death of soldiers through the Force, a bolt of shock and sadness that she doesn’t understand. And of course, Jacen doesn’t even know what she’s talking about at first…because the sensation of feeling lives ceasing in the Force around him has become so familiar, he doesn’t even feel it anymore.

But none so sobering as the moment Jacen has finally run out of lies to smother his daughter with, and finally comes clean about being her father. And to prove it, he opens up in the Force, and lets her sense him:

He felt the fear in her, the lingering pain from the events of two days earlier, begin to erode. Through the Force, he offered her nothing but the truth—for the first time in months, perhaps years, there was nothing of Sith training to his thoughts, nothing of the Jedi, no strategy, no planning. There was only what he felt.

She came to him, clambering over the bed and into his lap. She put her arms around her neck. “Daddy.”​

It’s a sweet and heartbreaking scene, that’s only made worse when the main characters make off with her—oblivious to her true identity and only seeking to reunite Tenel Ka with her daughter. We witness the rage, the utter anguish of Jacen as the last thing he cares about is ripped from his fingers. And this is where you know the writers have done an excellent job with his characterization. There’s no saving Jacen; there’s no outcome for LOTF where he is redeemed, or he has anything even remotely resembling a happy ending. He’s become vile, soulless, repulsive, arrogant, insufferable, and has inflicted so much pain on the characters (and readers) to ensure that the audience wants him dead…and yet, in a twisted miracle of psychological manipulation and compelling writing, you actually share that moment of anguish with him. And as always, the story does not justify or lionize Jacen as some kind of pillow-sobbing “tRaGiC” and “mIsUnDeRsToOd” character; sympathy is not the goal of scenes like this. The goal is to put the audience in his mind, to see it through the sickly and obsessive lens and feel all of his emotions with him, even as he remains completely in the wrong.

The book ends with Centerpoint Station being destroyed, thus eliminating it as an exploitable gimmicky super weapon and making the ensuing Civil War something that the characters on both sides will have to settle through actual, hard-fought conflict (I would complain about the Station being taken out before any of its Killik history could’ve been elaborated, but that’s honestly Denning’s fault for not taking that opportunity in an entire trilogy centered around those bugs).

Jaina Solo, having watched every powerful ally from Luke Skywalker to Kyle Katarn get their ass handed to them by her brother, and resolute in her goal to kill him before he targets her family, realizes that it’s impossible to counter Jacen through traditional means. Even prior to his downfall, he’s been established as terrifyingly powerful, schooled in unorthodox or largely-unknown Force Techniques from his years of wandering the galaxy in the aftermath of the Vong War…and seemingly able to predict any Jedi fighting tactics. Jaina therefore decides that the only way to defeat her brother is to employ Jedi-killing techniques he isn’t familiar with…meaning she must seek guidance from the only formidable Jedi-killer alive in the galaxy who has any motivation to see Jacen fall: Boba Fett.

Which of course, leads me to Revelations, Karen Traviss’ third and final entry in the series, and the single most talked-about book in the series after LOTF. I have heard Crystal Star-levels of disgust and revilement for this novel from every corner of the EU readerbase, its title alone being enough to ignite rancid plumes of salt. If Jacen’s Downfall and Mara’s Death were killing blow to the series, many consider Revelations to be the narrative equivalent of post-mortem sacrilege of the obscenest kind.

However, I heard similar things about Bloodlines and Sacrifice, and they’ve remained my absolute favorite entries in the series. So it’s time for me to see, yet again, if that resentment for Traviss is justified or not.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Spoiler: Jacen Solo & His Mario Puzo-Style Familial Turmoil

Jacen, meanwhile, is shown internally reeling from Tenel Ka’s betrayal of him in the previous book, the Hapan Forces wrenched from his successful campaign of Coruscanti Aggression and having no one left in the galaxy save for his daughter, Allana. When his Sith pragmatism demands that he resumes his mission to end the war, he decides to crush the remaining emotional hang-ups he has left, and proceeds to kidnap Allana…in order to blackmail Tenel Ka into surrendering the Hapan Fleet. Considering Jacen has already sacrificed everything to service his obsession with achieving galactic peace, it comes as no surprise that he would offer the tattered remnants of whatever possible future he could have with Tenel Ka; after all, a recurring thought gnawing on his mind in the previous books is the inevitability of his Sith Persona becoming public, and Tenel Ka cutting all ties with him…including shielding their daughter from him. This was always going to happen, and he knew it…but now that Tenel Ka is getting in the way of his goals, he’s now deciding to forward that inevitability to the present.

Tenel Ka is of course portrayed as horrified and anguished at new lows her husband has sunk to, having already witnessed his actions over Kashyyyk. And when he leaves a message to her with his demands, in typical emotionally-manipulative Jacen fashion, he uses it as an opportunity to punish Tenel Ka, to absolve himself of any fault and paint himself as the person whose hand was forced:

“At Kuat, you put me into an untenable situation. Being abandoned to my enemies, abandoned by one for whom I had considerable affection and respect…[so] I’m going to return the favor. You have a choice to make, like the one you forced upon me. You will put all Hapan military forces under my command…[or] your daughter will die.

By doing what you did to me, you changed me into someone capable of doing exactly what I have promised.”

This terrifying behavior of the self-assured and obsessive father prying the children from the mother he no longer trusts reminds me of Michael Corleone’s behavior at the end of the Godfather II. He’s reached the point in his isolation, his mad obsession, where he’s even able to use his own offspring as bargaining tools to punish the mother…all in the name of what he believes is right, what the mother is standing in the way of.

Moreover, the paranoia that Allema had speculated on in the previous book is starting to become more and more present in Jacen’s behavior, particularly around his daughter. He migrates her constantly, smuggling her in secret under mountainous security, seeing everything as a threat to her. Even when Leia turns up to try and reach out to him on his command ship, his first thought is the possibility that she—as a terrorist who’s already corrupted his wife—may have discovered Allana’s identity as his daughter. And following Leia’s sudden disappearance, with Jacen’s guards report the possibility that she smuggled an infiltration team over to plant something on his ship…and his mind immediately swerves to a bomb.

I haven’t really delved into this when covering the previous books, but the sparse moments Jacen spends with his daughter are incredibly sweet, and remind us that a part of him—in fact, the worst and most paranoid part of him—is till human, and loves her. She still has no idea that he’s her father, and Jacen only gets to manifest his affection for her in short bursts, but it’s always in a touching and protective way. The way he oversimplifies a hazardous situations to make her feel better, the way he desperately tries to fill the void of her mother by doting on her with toys and luxuries, how he sanitizes all of his gruesome duties as “work” for her sake, and even little things like keeping her on his lap during their escape. She’s the last thing in his life worth having—with his friends, mentors, family and comrades having turned against him in his twisted mind—and therefore, the story shows how much he treasures her. You almost wonder what kind of father he could’ve made in another life where he’d made different choices. And that’s what makes these moments, small as they are, so valuable: with how unrecognizably callous and calculating Jacen’s become—having long abandoned the squirming guilt and remorse that characterized his internal thoughts in earlier books—these moments serve as the only pockets of respite, the comforting and sad reminders of of the person he used to be, and the person he could have been.

It leads some of the most sobering moments in the book, where Jacen is racing through a hectic space battle to get his daughter to safety, and in the distant battle, Allana says that she senses that “someone just left. Tons of people.” She unknowingly senses the death of soldiers through the Force, a bolt of shock and sadness that she doesn’t understand. And of course, Jacen doesn’t even know what she’s talking about at first…because the sensation of feeling lives ceasing in the Force around him has become so familiar, he doesn’t even feel it anymore.

But none so sobering as the moment Jacen has finally run out of lies to smother his daughter with, and finally comes clean about being her father. And to prove it, he opens up in the Force, and lets her sense him:

He felt the fear in her, the lingering pain from the events of two days earlier, begin to erode. Through the Force, he offered her nothing but the truth—for the first time in months, perhaps years, there was nothing of Sith training to his thoughts, nothing of the Jedi, no strategy, no planning. There was only what he felt.

She came to him, clambering over the bed and into his lap. She put her arms around her neck. “Daddy.”​

It’s a sweet and heartbreaking scene, that’s only made worse when the main characters make off with her—oblivious to her true identity and only seeking to reunite Tenel Ka with her daughter. We witness the rage, the utter anguish of Jacen as the last thing he cares about is ripped from his fingers. And this is where you know the writers have done an excellent job with his characterization. There’s no saving Jacen; there’s no outcome for LOTF where he is redeemed, or he has anything even remotely resembling a happy ending. He’s become vile, soulless, repulsive, arrogant, insufferable, and has inflicted so much pain on the characters (and readers) to ensure that the audience wants him dead…and yet, in a twisted miracle of psychological manipulation and compelling writing, you actually share that moment of anguish with him. And as always, the story does not justify or lionize Jacen as some kind of pillow-sobbing “tRaGiC” and “mIsUnDeRsToOd” character; sympathy is not the goal of scenes like this. The goal is to put the audience in his mind, to see it through the sickly and obsessive lens and feel all of his emotions with him, even as he remains completely in the wrong.

The book ends with Centerpoint Station being destroyed, thus eliminating it as an exploitable gimmicky super weapon and making the ensuing Civil War something that the characters on both sides will have to settle through actual, hard-fought conflict (I would complain about the Station being taken out before any of its Killik history could’ve been elaborated, but that’s honestly Denning’s fault for not taking that opportunity in an entire trilogy centered around those bugs).

Jaina Solo, having watched every powerful ally from Luke Skywalker to Kyle Katarn get their ass handed to them by her brother, and resolute in her goal to kill him before he targets her family, realizes that it’s impossible to counter Jacen through traditional means. Even prior to his downfall, he’s been established as terrifyingly powerful, schooled in unorthodox or largely-unknown Force Techniques from his years of wandering the galaxy in the aftermath of the Vong War…and seemingly able to predict any Jedi fighting tactics. Jaina therefore decides that the only way to defeat her brother is to employ Jedi-killing techniques he isn’t familiar with…meaning she must seek guidance from the only formidable Jedi-killer alive in the galaxy who has any motivation to see Jacen fall: Boba Fett.

Which of course, leads me to Revelations, Karen Traviss’ third and final entry in the series, and the single most talked-about book in the series after LOTF. I have heard Crystal Star-levels of disgust and revilement for this novel from every corner of the EU readerbase, its title alone being enough to ignite rancid plumes of salt. If Jacen’s Downfall and Mara’s Death were killing blow to the series, many consider Revelations to be the narrative equivalent of post-mortem sacrilege of the obscenest kind.

However, I heard similar things about Bloodlines and Sacrifice, and they’ve remained my absolute favorite entries in the series. So it’s time for me to see, yet again, if that resentment for Traviss is justified or not.

The thing is, it would have been more acceptable if Jaina actually sought out a source of techniques that the Jedi and Sith have never faced before. Maybe some ancient, long-forgotten race who used the Force in a different way, like the Nightsisters? Or maybe something designed to kill Force-sensitives or cripple them, like something from the Rakatans? Or maybe Force Powers that have been used to cripple Force-sensitives, like how the Ancient Jedi used to cut their enemies off from the Force, or how the Ancient Sith used techniques to drain the enemy's Force power.

Spoiler: MANDO TECHNIQUES?

But the Mandalorians? Really? The Jedi have been crushing the Mandos in combat ever since the Mandalorian Wars. And ever since the Mandalorian Wars, the Mandos have been less and less impressive. Jango Fett is ten times the man his son ever was, and Boba knows it-and yet the same Jango Fett couldn't injure Obi-Wan Kenobi for shit and got his head chopped off by Mace Windu. The Jedi forces eradicated the Mandalorians at Galidraan. The Jedi know all about the Mandalorians' way of life and their way of fighting, using beskar, melee weapons, upgraded blasters, flamethrowers, darts, and missiles for effect. And yet the best Jango can do to kill Jedi was killing some of them at Galidraan, killing a Dark Jedi padawan who became a drug queen, and killing one Jedi in the Geonosis Arena who was distracted and was aiming for Count Dooku.

The Mandalorians have been jobbing to the Jedi for thousands of years and have been Sith attack dogs multiple times, and yet the Jedi have never had any trouble dealing with them. Even a rogue sect of the Jedi Order was able to destroy the Mandalorians' empire at their height, and those rogue Jedi had nothing but Republic redshirts for fire support. The Empire even enslaved them, for Pete's sake. And Jacen is as powerful, if not more powerful than Darth Vader. So if anything, Jaina seeking the Mandalorians' help to defeat Jacen is like me shopping in a grocery store for an assault rifle. It doesn't work narratively, and it doesn't work even if the reader has watched nothing but the movies, let alone if the reader has read most of the Expanded Universe material concerning the Mandalorians.

And LOTF claims that Boba Fett is one of the best Jedi-killers out there. Forgive me for asking, but how many Jedi has Boba Fett killed? At least with his old man, I can count several Jedi in Open Seasons who died to him, but I haven't seen any Jedi die to Boba Fett. Plus, Jaina should know that her GRANDFATHER is the best Jedi-killer out there; dude was at the center of Order 66, for crying out loud! She's descended from the most infamous Jedi killer in Star Wars history, the one who nearly snuffed out their order. Last I checked, the only other fellow who got that close to eradicating the Jedi was the planet-consuming Darth Nihilus. And yet LOTF hypes up Fett like he's some kind of super Jedi killer, when at most, he's destroyed pirate fleets and fought against rogue clones, among other tough bounties. I don't know of any Jedi that he killed. Maybe he killed some unimportant Jedi after Order 66, but if they're not important enough to have names, I can't be bothered to remember them.

The thing is, the concept of a Jedi having to look at other ways to kill another Jedi is interesting to me. But when I found out where it was leading to, I couldn't stop smacking my head on a wall. Even the best of the Mandalorians, Canderous Ordo, a man who gutted Sith for a living, would have a hard time fighting a Sith Lord who can equal or surpass Vader in power. And guys like Kyle Katarn have learned how to fight outside of Jedi ways, since he was trained first as an Imperial. And yet now, we rely on a people that the Jedi have repeatedly defeated for techniques on how to beat the Jedi? Really?

Plus, Jacen has fallen to the Dark Side and has become a Sith. Even if the Mandos had Jedi-killing techniques, they're the wrong techniques to be used against Jacen Solo. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. Cortosis power armor and gravity boots are a good defense against a Jedi who can push or pull you or use a lightsaber, but a Sith with the Dark Side can light you up like a Christmas tree or crush you inside your armor, making it your tomb. Just ask the Purge Troopers from Force Unleashed, who all had cortosis armor and gravity boots that were capable of resisting lightsaber blows and Force push attacks, but not Sith Lightning which fries their circuity and roasts them inside their own armor. In the same vein, a suit of beskar and a good grasp of melee combat can be useful against a Jedi, but against a Sith? That beskar suit of armor will be your tomb if the Sith decides to use the Force to crush you inside it.

It wouldn't have been so insulting if it wasn't Vader's grand-daughter who was being dragged through the mud. A woman who has fought through legions of Vong with lightsaber-proof armor. If it was some chump newbie Jedi learning from the Mandos and fighting another Jedi, it would have worked.

I'm sorry for bringing up this Mando-stuff again. Can we focus back on Twi'lek tits for now?

And my thoughts on the new game remains as before: it's been 15 years, and they have yet to top Rogue Squadrons 2 and 3 or Battlefront II classic in terms of space combat Star Wars games with decent campaigns. It shouldn't be that hard, and yet apparently, it is.

 

[Ghostse]

View attachment 1635024

I'm not sure, was this inspired by Frazetta?

You'll find no shortage of Twi'lek connoisseurs around here, good sir.

View attachment 1635599

Brb, Slaying another Hutt.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Brb, Slaying another Hutt.

Isn't there something in the lore that says that Jabba was fascinated with humanoid females and the other Hutts didn't like that? Didn't they see him as some kind of deviant because of that?

 

[SuiSui1]

@LORD IMPERATOR If I remember correctly, all Hutts were egotistical, hedonistic with a side of god complex. They looked down on all other species and enslaved females for entertainment/trophy purposes. Jabba just went farther with his hedonistic lusts which would put him into the deviant box.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

The thing is, it would have been more acceptable if Jaina actually sought out a source of techniques that the Jedi and Sith have never faced before. Maybe some ancient, long-forgotten race who used the Force in a different way, like the Nightsisters? Or maybe something designed to kill Force-sensitives or cripple them, like something from the Rakatans? Or maybe Force Powers that have been used to cripple Force-sensitives, like how the Ancient Jedi used to cut their enemies off from the Force, or how the Ancient Sith used techniques to drain the enemy's Force power.

I have to actually read Revelation and Invincible to see what exactly Jaina learns from Fett, and how she implements it in the duel against Caedus, but from my understanding of the story so far, by the time she's settled on being the one who takes him down (after various others have been defeated trying to carry out the same task), there doesn't seem to be enough time for her to embark on some pilgrimage like her brother to find obscure Force Techniques, especially when he already seems to know most of them...at least, the ones that are still ascertainable by the time of LOTF.

Caedus is killing countless people by the day. Boba Fett is only a transport's ride away, and has plenty of motive to be a part of Caedus' downfall. Going straight to him seems like a logical idea...far more preferable than Jaina scouring the galaxy for Force-related solutions she has no reason to believe can be found in time, let alone even exist.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

@LORD IMPERATOR If I remember correctly, all Hutts were egotistical, hedonistic with a side of god complex. They looked down on all other species and enslaved females for entertainment/trophy purposes. Jabba just went farther with his hedonistic lusts which would put him into the deviant box.

My point exactly. The other Hutts kept scantily-clad humanoid female slaves as trophies. Jabba was one of the few who was actually sexually attracted to them, which made him a deviant.

I have to actually read Revelation and Invincible to see what exactly Jaina learns from Fett, and how she implements it in the duel against Caedus, but from my understanding of the story so far, by the time she's settled on being the one who takes him down (after various others have been defeated trying to carry out the same task), there doesn't seem to be enough time for her to embark on some pilgrimage like her brother to find obscure Force Techniques, especially when he already seems to know most of them...at least, the ones that are still ascertainable by the time of LOTF.

Caedus killing countless people by the day. Boba Fett is only a transport's ride away, and has plenty of motive to be a part of Caedus' downfall. Going straight to him seems like a logical idea...far more preferable than Jaina scouring the galaxy for Force-related solutions she has no reason to believe can be found in time, let alone even exist.

Spoiler: REVELATION OPINIONS

I've actually read Revelation, and to me, it strikes me as the kind of book written by a Boba Fett/Mandalorian fan who did not read the rest of the Expanded Universe, let alone watched the films. And if Jaina wants to learn something new, maybe she shouldn't be learning from a group that has been the Jedi Order's punching bag for the last 4000 years. The Sith and the Empire have been ferocious opponents of the Jedi, nearly eradicating them twice, but the Mandalorians have been nothing more but an obstacle for them. Especially the movie-era Mandalorians, who are nowhere near as strong as the Neo-Crusader Mandalorians who can actually duel Jedi on their own terms and sometimes give them a decent workout. The movie-era Mandalorians' only major interaction with the Jedi is that they were practically slaughtered down to a man at Galidraan, where everyone except for Fett Sr. got their clocks cleaned by the Jedi Order.

It's not a logical idea. Boba Fett hasn't even killed a named Jedi character in his life as far as the EU is concerned, so logically, anything he can teach her would be utterly useless against a guy who can send the Jedi packing. Again, the Jedi have actually fought Mandalorians before and won, so why go to them for help? The Jedi are totally familiar with how Mandalorians fight, and they've defeated the Mandalorians multiple times before. And Jaina is fighting a Sith Lord, which means that even if Boba Fett has a massive encyclopedia of "Jedi killing 101", it would be totally useless since Jacen is now a Sith Lord. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. A Sith uses the Force for attack all the time. Again, this is like shopping in a grocery store for an assault rifle. Techniques and equipment against Jedi like lightsaber-proof armor and melee combat mastery might be useful against Jedi, but against a Sith, let alone one as powerful, if not more powerful, than Darth Vader? Yeah, no. Attacking a Sith with Mandalorian equipment and techniques for Jedi-killing would logically end with you getting Force-crushed inside your armor or cooked with Force Lightning. It'd be as pathetic as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw4zkYlanDc

Nothing the Mandalorians can teach you is capable of protecting you from traditional Dark Side Force Powers like Force Choke, Force Crush, and Force Lightning, let alone the more esoteric Sith powers like draining life energy or mind-rape. And Boba isn't even that experienced in killing or capturing Jedi anyways, let alone Sith. And of course, the Sith are ferocious at up-close melee combat since the Dark Side courses through them, increasing their strength.

Even beskar really isn't that useful against a Sith, because when someone says that beskar is good enough as a defense against Sith, all it does is remind me of an exchange from a KOTOR fanfilm someone wrote, where this happens:

Star Wars: KOTOR - Legacy of the Sith - FULL MOVIE (KOTOR Machinima)

DOWNLOAD THE FILM HERE: https://mega.nz/#!dwAkDQbb!zjCCesZq5IwzhzGg7d7iOqhAtVupEc0yEGQDzduOkIY At long last, it's finally here! The penultimate chapter in my...

www.youtube.com

Mandalorian Field Marshal: (Gasps in pain)
Darth Revan: "Do you feel that? That's the interior of your armor shrinking. I'll give it about 30 seconds before it starts to crush your organs."

Nothing the Mandalorians can throw at you can withstand the power of the Dark Side. And this whole stuff about Boba being more convenient to reach is an invention of the story written by the authors. They could easily have Jaina be going around the galaxy looking for a way to defeat Jedi in an unorthodox fashion while Jacen is off making the galaxy wet its pants. Maybe she learns of some Rakatan device and goes on a treasure hunt. Maybe she opens a holocron made by Nomi Sunrider which teaches her how to strip someone of Force powers. Maybe she opens Darth Nihilus' holocron, which is confirmed to have survived up to that era, and she learns from that. Maybe she goes to Dathomir and learns from some Nightsisters. So many options, and they went with the group that has been proven time and time again to not be a match for the Jedi ever since Canderous died.

Here's another sexy twi'lek for everyone's viewing pleasure.

 

[SuiSui1]

I preferred Boba Fett as a bad version of the silent gunslinger who is just a man with a reputation and not a clone...

 

[Creep3r]

Some people are acting surprised by the gender non-binary queersexuals in the game, thinking this is the first time Disney has pandered to tumblr genders. If anyone remembers my previous posts, Disney has been doing this crap since 2015 starting with Chuck Wendig who introduced Chaos genders to SW.

Disney shills are resorting to the usual "-phobic" retorts while fence-sitters claim that the troon is an alien so it doesn't count despite the fact Mirialans are just a different race of humans with green and yellow skin in both canons. Also the who gender snowflake bs of the game was something I knew would be in their from the start when they decided to make it a tie-in to LGBTQIAlphabet Squadron. Either way, if Chuck Wendig weren't angry at Disney, I'm sure he'd be creaming his pants right now.

Do you know where to get the old CCG card images? (Yes, I am that autistic) or need help?

I think I may have something in the digital storage, but I'll have to check later.

Hell, I think that top one was even called Yak-Face in my Star Wars encyclopedia at the time.

Yeah, some of the nicknames from the film productions like Yak-Face, Hammerhead, Squidface, Three-Eyes, Starfish, pig-lizard, etc were kept as either nicknames in-universe for some or racial slurs for others. That way every species gets an N-Word.

Anyway, back to ROTJ art.
(where I left off: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-wars-griefing-thread-spoilers.32492/post-7462695)

Some more concept art of Jabba's introduction scene where he was far smaller.

About only R2's height and with his tail length being only around the same size as 3PO's height.

Some more of a more adequately sized Jabba.

An uglier corpse-like Jabba.

One of Luke speaking with a skinnier Jabba.

Thinner Hutts would be introduced into the lore as regular civilians or those serving under other Hutts, although they were rarely seen outside of novels and sourcebooks.

With the fattest hutts being those who gained some level of influence, as being a fat tub of lard was considered a sign of wealth and power among hutts.

@LORD IMPERATOR If I remember correctly, all Hutts were egotistical, hedonistic with a side of god complex. They looked down on all other species and enslaved females for entertainment/trophy purposes. Jabba just went farther with his hedonistic lusts which would put him into the deviant box.

Pretty much this, so the majority were fat because of this desire to showcase their "godhood", as even their god Boonta was a super fat Hutt and warlord who was said to have ascended to godhood because of his great power and worshipers. So Hutts would naturally emulate this fat sack of corruption since its partly because of him that the Hutts were able to re-establish an empire of sorts. Although not all Hutts were inherent pricks, but the vast majority of them were (like 95%) because they had a chosen race/god complex due to that their history claims that they once ruled over the universe before a great calamity ruined the omnipotent Hutt Empire, then Boonta stepped up to try and fix shit for the Hutts but just barely. Another issue with them is that attaining success by any means is considered "honorable", especially when you have others do the work for you, so their overall culture seems normal to them but quite toxic to anyone who's not a Hutt. However good Hutts did exist, but they were almost as rare as skinny ones, with some Hutts running fancy hotels and spas with no ulterior motive or some serving as managers at spaceports or trade businesses, or some who ran some criminal pursuits but were considered generous and very lenient. The most notable good Hutts were Blotus and Azzim the Hutt.

Blotus served as Supreme Chancellor of the Old Republic before the KOTOR era and was remembered as the greatest chancellor in Republic history.

And Azzim was the owner of a luxury spa who detested violence and turned his private planet into a sanctuary for Mon Cala refugees centuries after ROTJ. Was also a humanoid-loving deviant who preferred happy strippers over miserable slaves.

Also speaking of Hutts, here's that finalized Hutt maquette by Tippett that is now being sold as a bust.

The only piece of Disney crap that's even remotely interested me.

Anyway here's some more art of the palace by McQuarrie.

The archway in the middle was used in TFA for Rey's planet, one of the few designs by McQuarrie to make it into Disney shit alongside the nu-X-Wings... KK and JJ's idiots would've benefited from using more than just a handful of pieces of art instead of shitting out whatever they wanted. And that was your regular dose of mandated griefing.

Updated art of the unused Banthas for ROTJ.

These were drawn with rather long legs and skinnier frames. They would later be incorporated into lore as "Dune Banthas".

An unused part of Jabba's palace which would've served as the Gamorrean district or "clan-town".

For all the gamorrean guards and their kin. Jabba sure seemed generous with room and board. Then again, did he even pay his stupider guards?

And speaking of Gamorreans... while Dave Carson's fantasy orc design was chosen as the final design, McQuarrie made his own Gamorrean designs.

These designs looked a bit more like modern scifi, with blasters and more alien armor. They were also more reptilian, resembling Trandoshans like Bossk from ESB or the Saurins from the Chalmun's cantina scene in ANH but with hairier bodies. These designs though were rejected. The ugly butt-faced design on the bottom right of the third pic may be based on an unused alien bounty hunter design from ESB by McQuarrie as well.

The next are another race of guards and are ones I covered before in the Monsters and Aliens Guide, however the ROTJ art book has more pics of them. Conceived by Jamero.

I just call them rhino-faces since these things never got a name or even a nickname and went completely unused in the film which is a shame since I always liked their design. Despite this lack of use, a lone member of their unnamed species was introduced into lore in a supplement for the SW RPG courtesy of Joe Corroney, who was an illustrator for Lucasfilm, working on magazines, comics, etc.

Kanarak was simply called an alien pirate but he was described as very violent and with a refusal to obey orders, only interested in gutting his enemies. Strangely, he was the only one of the crew whose species and origins remained vague. Still its possible something matching its description existed in a text-only guide, but that'd be impossible to remember.

Some sort of rejected crustacean design by Jamero.

Maybe a palace visitor or a rejected design for Jabba? I don't recall this one ever being used.

A rejected guard design for another species that would've made its home at Jabba's and would've functioned as his couriers as well.

These guys I discussed before in the M&A guide however I didn't remember if they were used in lore then, but after seeing the drinking one and the shoes on the others it hit me. These actually did get used in lore and were re-introduced by none other than Genndy Tartakovsky for the Clone Wars miniseries in the form of Nilo the Rodisar.

One of Ventress' opponents during her first appearance in the arena. The Rodisars were described as primitive and war-like, engaging in "Winter Wars", with Nilo having been kidnapped from his homeworld to compete in the alien arena. And in case it wasn't obvious, Nilo and his species were named after their creator, Jamero himself, full name Nilo Rodis Jamero *wink wink-nudge nudge*.

Dozens of wonderful miniatures by Tippett and Seeds.

A few here never actually made it into the movie, however the unused maquettes all found their way into lore with the exception of the four-armed humanoid Jabba with the Fu Manchu face.

And here we have the many designs of Salacious B. Crumb, Jabba's faithful jester and spy.

Conceived and named by Phil Tippett, first design by Jamero, numerous head designs by McQuarrie (all of which were rejected), and the puppet by Tony McVey. Some designs looked Goblin-like while others were more alien and were never used again outside of background characters in the old Marvel comics, although the more goblin-esque design may have served as a basis for Pic, a mutated member of Crumb's species from the Dark Forces games. Salacious B. Crumb himself got his rather complex name during one of Tippett's many drunken stupors with his fellow craftsmen. After leaving the bar, he bent down to tie his shoelaces and garbled out "gotta tie my soolayces", he and the drunk crew were then hit with inebriated inspiration and decided to name the puppet "Soolayces". George was not to keen on the name, instead he jumbled it a little into "Salacious" and gave him the last name B. Crumb, in honor of R. Crumb, creator of Fritz the Cat. Possibly because of this reference, Crumb was given a very perverted personality, as displayed through his constant oggling and even more so in a deleted scene involving him and the dancer Jess, as well as his habit of spying on the palace women when also doing spy duty for Jabba. His unique laugh was provided by Tim Rose who also did dear old Ackbar fyi.

So as you can see, for a stupid court animal, Crumb had a very complex history both irl and in-universe.

As for in-universe lore, Crumb is a Kowakian Monkey Lizard who snuck aboard Jabba's ship during a business trip years ago. The little vermin helped himself to Jabba's food which angered the Hutt upon finding him. He then ordered his majordomos to kill the little runt. However Crumb ended up making fools of Jabba's top two in a rather comical way. Jabba was so amused that he decided to keep the obnoxious lizard as his jester. He later realized the creature was far more intelligent than it let on and had him act as his spy in the palace.

And to finish off for now, here are three iconic aliens fathered by Chris Walas which would become part of the common background cast.

Unlike the Ishi Tib and Elom, these three much like Yak-Face, did not receive species or individual names from their creator apparently due to time constraints. Instead he gave them the nicknames Tooth-Face, Squidface and Three Eyes, with their species and individual names first being conceived in the 1987 and 1989 sourcebooks, and the 1995 anthology Tales from Jabba's Palace.

*First off is Toothface/J'Quille who would later receive the proper name of J'Quille in 1995 and his species name was received in 1989 in the Galaxy Race guide which dubbed them Whiphids, however Toothface would remain as a species slur. JJ and his moronic crew for Plan IX used J'Quille's design as the basis for the horse aliens in the stupid cavalry scene because they thought the designs went unused... They sure knew their stuff eh? That concludes another mandated griefing. J'Quille's lore in 1995 established him as a lover of Lady Valarian (pictured right), a fellow Whiphid who succeeded Gardulla the Hutt after her death, and J'Quille now acted as her spy at Jabba's where he worked for Jabba as a bounty hunter. He didn't accompany Jabba aboard the sailbarge, but he suffered a fate worse than death when the B'omarr monks took out his brain to "purify" him.

*Second is Squidface/Tessek who later received his name in the 1990 galaxy guide where he was called Tessek from then on. However his species name the Quarren would come first in the 1987 sourcebook. Tessek much like the Gamorreans was another fantasy-inspired species, specifically the robed Mind Flayers of D&D lore (first introduced in 1975) who Gygax based on the book The Burrowers Beneath which was itself based on Lovecraft mythos. However, aside from appearance, the similarities end there, other than being very xenophobic, having a superiority complex and having a love for dark places. The Quarren are from the same planet (Dac) as Ackbar's species the Mon Calamari, and both have had a long standing feud, and have remained the most recurring background aliens alongside Ithorians before Disney screwed them over until Mandalorian came around. Tessek himself was described as Jabba's accountant who was also a spy for Lady Valarian, with plans to kill Jabba then take control of his businesses and sell half to Valarian, so you can imagine how much joy he got when Luke and the gang were able to do the work for him. He was one of the lucky few to survive the sail barge explosion, however he was also fucked over by the B'omarr monks.

*Thirdly is Three-Eyes/Ree-Yees who was the only one of the three that Walas had time to give a real name to, "Ree-Yees", an obvious anagram of Three Eyes. His species name though was given later in the 1990 galaxy guide, "Gran" which would also become one of the most recurring species and probably the ugliest spotlight alien, being closest to matching Disney aliens, but since he's surrounded by so many colorful and less deformed faces, he stands out in a good way. His design is mostly meant to be a mix of alien and goat, and overall he resembles the aliens from Mac&Me but with three eyes and antenna. His costume in ROTJ gave him oversized hoof-like hands with tiny fingers, but future media and the prequels would depict the Gran as having humanoid hands with six fingers, with a later guide labeling Ree-Yees a deformed genetic throwback. His species were also essentially fucking communists, and he was exiled after murdering a relative. He then found a home among Jabba's court where he was made the caretaker of Jabba's pet, Bubo, the big ugly frog-dog and he also had a hostile relationship with Tessek who he called Squidface. He later died a gruesome death aboard the sailbarge because he was drunk...

All that's left now are three alien guards, the Sarlacc and Sand Barge/Skiff concepts before moving on to Endor and the Death Star.

(Continued here: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-wars-griefing-thread-spoilers.32492/post-7475584)