Mega Rad Gun Thread

That AR is not a firearm thing has been tried before and the ATF squashed it hard. If the court doesn't recognize it, ree-ing about it online won't change it.
I'd be interested to see the cases where they squashed it, because my understanding is that they seem to avoid having an actual ruling be made on the subject.

I'm not saying anyone should ever do something illegal with an AR and expect to get off on some "hurr durr it's not a gun!" argument in court, but I don't think it's really been squashed "hard."
 
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IIRC they settled with someone in court over it because they were charging him with some shit and his lawyer used that argument. It was a year or two ago.
 
AR-15s - ARs are also NOT firearms under US law because federal regulations define a firearm’s “frame" or "receiver” as the piece considered to be the gun itself. But in an AR-15, the receiver is split into upper and lower parts — and some of the components listed in the definition are contained in the upper half. This tiny detail alone has allowed many convicted felons to walk. That has also led judges to rule that a lower receiver alone cannot be considered a gun because of this. In Europe, the defining parts of a gun are usually the parts that have to bear pressure, such as the barrel, the bolt, the gas pistons, etc.
I can't wait to see what retarded shit the ATF comes up with to regulate ARs because some wifebeaters' attorneys were able to successfully argue this in front of a judge. If you're an inbred wifebeater who wants to use this loophole to own an AR, I hope your defense attorney bankrupts you.
 
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ARs are also NOT firearms under US law
not quite true. the frame or receiver is the serialized part of the firearm and is considered the firearm itself for purpose of bookkeeping, import, export, destruction, manufacturing, sale, et c.

an incomplete AR-15 is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun. though, so specific laws that would target rifles, pistols, et c may not apply to an unassembled firearm, which would typically just be a firearm itself, or a frame or receiver. to wit: if you aren't legally allowed to hunt with a pistol, but are allowed to do so with a rifle, then you can use the same AR-15 to hunt, provided it's in a legal configuration. Franklin Armory's XO-15 does something similar where it fails to meet the definition of rifle, pistol, et c and so is just a "firearm", and a disassembled XO-15 has one part of the subassembly (the serialized part) defined as the receiver, which is legally considered a firearm in and of itself, with all other parts being accessories to it.


the guidebook makes this clear, and so does 18 USC. do not go to bed thinking that you are somehow getting one over on someone and committing a felony because you don't fully understand the definitions being used in regulation or legislation. the few cases i'm aware of where a weapons charge enhancement was dropped or dismissed (in one case getting the entire case dismissed) was because of either poorly worded local law (prohibited from carrying a pistol, and so merely changed the upper out for a non-short barreled rifle), or a failure to understand that firearm, rifle, pistol, machinegun, short-barreled rifle, et c are all classifications of firearm, and a frame or receiver is a part of a firearm where, if unassembled, is itself a firearm (defined as such through legislation).

Muzzleloaders - ... are separated from modern firearms that use conventional centerfire or rimfire ammunition, whether made before 1898 or after or could be converted to chamber such a round as those would fall under the definition of "modern firearm".
any antique firearm (defined as manufactured prior to 1898 in 26 USC) and any duplicates of such are not considered a firearm for most purposes except where they are used for criminal purpose (poaching for example). conversion cylinders (for example to change a percussion cap revolver to a centerfire revolver) are no longer duplicates of an antique, but are considered modifications of an antique when installed. there is an exception in 44 USC for original designs of an antique firearm that fire fixed ammunition as part of it's original design.

an 1858 Remington revolver would require the cylinder to be removed each time you want to reload and can be installed or uninstalled with no changes to the original antique firearm. the same is not true for a S&W new model 3, which fires fixed ammunition, but is an antique by virtue of it being integral to the original design prior to 1898.

modifying an uberti 1851 Navy revolver with a loading gate and a conversion cylinder would manufacture a non-antique firearm, and this is federally legal, generally speaking, but if you are prohibited or have additional local laws to comply with, it may not be legal in your local area.

using any firearm, even a BP musket or something in the commission of a crime would make that non-firearm a firearm for purposes of criminal indictment, typically. there's no "bank robbery loophole with antique shotguns" loophole or something to avoid a felony armed robbery charge.

 
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Looks like the ATF just declared Q's Honey Badger a SBR. I'm surprised it took them this long to start going after braces.
 
Didn't we already go down this road? Or are they doing something different this go around?

I believe their overlying excuse for the Honey Badger is that its 25 inches OAL instead of 26, but ATF's Technology division is famous for not having a firm rule on braces and making companies submit firearm samples. The Honey Badger has been out for a couple of years now though so I'm surprised this didn't come down sooner.
 
I believe their overlying excuse for the Honey Badger is that its 25 inches OAL instead of 26, but ATF's Technology division is famous for not having a firm rule on braces and making companies submit firearm samples. The Honey Badger has been out for a couple of years now though so I'm surprised this didn't come down sooner.
Oh god. It's so fucking annoying when they get in the weeds about this shit. There was something years back when braces were getting big and people where writing tons of letters for clarification where it was technically legal to put a foregrip on a pistol with a brace, as marketed, because it met the definition of it being a "firearm" instead of a "pistol" as long as it was either longer or shorter than a certain length, so it wouldn't become an AOW. Something like that. I actually have the letters somewhere from when I built an AR pistol. There were like 3 or 4 decisions you had to put together from different letters, and then one dude got them all addressed in one. It was some technicality that would likely result in you going to prison if arrested for. I can't remember the details and as far as I knew nobody ever did it because who wants to fuck with the ATF over it. They are incredibly obtuse about this kinda shit and will reverse decisions on a whim as noted.

It sounds like this is treading over some possibly similar gay grey areas because our whole firearms code is dogshit.
 
I'm looking into shotguns for home defense clay pigeon shooting, and I'm highly enticed by a Kushnapup or similar bullpup.
Are we going to look totally out of place at the range with such guns? In EU, mind.
What are the downsides to bullpups? Because I can't think of any except them usually being right-hand-use only, but I don't know shit, so...
 
I'm looking into shotguns for home defense clay pigeon shooting, and I'm highly enticed by a Kushnapup or similar bullpup.
Are we going to look totally out of place at the range with such guns? In EU, mind.
What are the downsides to bullpups? Because I can't think of any except them usually being right-hand-use only, but I don't know shit, so...

Mediocre triggers at best.
As mentioned, most eject from the right side only.
More felt recoil, along with full-house 12ga shells going off next to your face is punishing.
Mounting the gun & proper follow-thru takes more practice/is less intuitive.
Did I mention more recoil? No ported barrels on shotgun bullpups (that I know of).
Price/weight/reliability; pick any two.
 
I'm looking into shotguns for home defense clay pigeon shooting, and I'm highly enticed by a Kushnapup or similar bullpup.
Are we going to look totally out of place at the range with such guns? In EU, mind.
What are the downsides to bullpups? Because I can't think of any except them usually being right-hand-use only, but I don't know shit, so...
You will look like "that guy" at the range with a bullpup. Care about that or don't as much as you will. Inrange had a video on bullpups that I liked that went into pros/cons iirc. Granted they are talking about rifles and not shotguns. I'm not a fan of bullpup rifles, but I have no real experience with bullpup shotguns. My big problem with bullpups is two-fold and related to the actual bullpup nature of the firearm. Bullpups are more complicated solely due to the extra trigger linkages required. That's assuming all else being equal. More complexity breeds more failure points. That can be accounted for by design and quality in manufacturing, but companies manufacturing bullpup shotguns that I know of are not known for quality. Half I've never heard of before seeing their bullpup shotgun. It tends to be harder to perform necessary functions with a bullpup like diagnose malfuctions and correct them. You're also going to pay more for a bullpup shotgun than a perfectly fine regular shotgun.

The big up is the shorter overall length while retaining barrel length. That's nothing to sneeze at, but not enough for me.
 
You will look like "that guy" at the range with a bullpup. Care about that or don't as much as you will. Inrange had a video on bullpups that I liked that went into pros/cons iirc. Granted they are talking about rifles and not shotguns. I'm not a fan of bullpup rifles, but I have no real experience with bullpup shotguns. My big problem with bullpups is two-fold and related to the actual bullpup nature of the firearm. Bullpups are more complicated solely due to the extra trigger linkages required. That's assuming all else being equal. More complexity breeds more failure points. That can be accounted for by design and quality in manufacturing, but companies manufacturing bullpup shotguns that I know of are not known for quality. Half I've never heard of before seeing their bullpup shotgun. It tends to be harder to perform necessary functions with a bullpup like diagnose malfuctions and correct them. You're also going to pay more for a bullpup shotgun than a perfectly fine regular shotgun.

The big up is the shorter overall length while retaining barrel length. That's nothing to sneeze at, but not enough for me.
From my understanding clay shooting also benefits from longer barrels that bullpup don't have. I think one of the ranges near me has a rule against shorter barrels (less than 20in... Maybe less than 24in, I forget) for clays.
 
From my understanding clay shooting also benefits from longer barrels that bullpup don't have. I think one of the ranges near me has a rule against shorter barrels (less than 20in... Maybe less than 24in, I forget) for clays.
I am extremely unlearned in the ways of shot because my speed as an ooper8or is too high. I really should shoot my shotguns more. My range does weekly clay shoots.
 
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I'm not a fan of bullpup rifles, but I have no real experience with bullpup shotguns. My big problem with bullpups is two-fold and related to the actual bullpup nature of the firearm. Bullpups are more complicated solely due to the extra trigger linkages required. That's assuming all else being equal. More complexity breeds more failure points. That can be accounted for by design and quality in manufacturing, but companies manufacturing bullpup shotguns that I know of are not known for quality.

I've found that bullpups suffer on a lot of fronts, as the caliber/capacity increase. The 5.56 is fine (mostly), but FN 5.7 & 9mm are ideal for the bullpup platform; anything larger/heavier just bounces too much, unless you're running a good suppressor or brake, which kinda defeats the purpose of having a compact package if it adds another 4-6" OAL (at least).

It tends to be harder to perform necessary functions with a bullpup like diagnose malfuctions and correct them. You're also going to pay more for a bullpup shotgun than a perfectly fine regular shotgun.

That was my breaking point for bullpup shotguns, from any manufacturer or kit. I've shot exactly one Saiga conversion without issues that was done by a highly competent gunsmith, and even he had problems getting it to run right (combination shit magazines & bolt speed).

As in bone conducted sound/shockwaves?

There are some with padded cheek rests on the receivers.... but they generally do diddly, along with fucking up your cheek weld/sight picture/geometry.

The only way I've found that doesn't rattle teeth is to not actually put my face on the receiver, and not use the sights; instead square up & keep both eyes open, as in point-shooting.

Blading the body & seating a bullpup in a standard shoulder-pocket stance especially aggravates the controllability of bullpup shotguns, although that seems counterintuitive. This is a big reason why bullpups suck for clay/rabbit shooting; they lack the balance & weight for a smooth follow-through, along with being extremely hard to set right on the first pull. I've tried it a couple times, and it's really hard to track without too much initial lead.

Edit: the only thing a bullpup shotgun is good at (and only if semiauto), is engaging a lot of targets very up close, in a hurry.

But at that point, a pistol-caliber carbine still handles better & provides more utility. Even the Glock carbine conversions (as from ATI) are preferable in terms of cost & handling.
 
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Edit: the only thing a bullpup shotgun is good at (and only if semiauto), is engaging a lot of targets very up close, in a hurry.
I hear what everyone's saying, and I know Kel-Tec gets a lot of shit, but there's something about that KSG 7+7 capacity that's kinda enticing. (I'd like to heft a fully loaded 12+12 model, just to see what that weight feels like, but it eliminates the whole point of a bullpup)
 
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What do you guys think of PCCs? I really want to pick up a relatively cheap one for the local USPSA matches, but the prices.

It's either $300 for a Keltech S2000 or $2K for a custom AR-9 or the CZ Scorpion Evo. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle.

The HiPoint 995 looks alright, except I'm leery of the magazine location.
 
What do you guys think of PCCs? I really want to pick up a relatively cheap one for the local USPSA matches, but the prices.

It's either $300 for a Keltech S2000 or $2K for a custom AR-9 or the CZ Scorpion Evo. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle.

The HiPoint 995 looks alright, except I'm leery of the magazine location.

My MP5 is probably my favorite firearm that I own.
 
What do you guys think of PCCs? I really want to pick up a relatively cheap one for the local USPSA matches, but the prices.

It's either $300 for a Keltech S2000 or $2K for a custom AR-9 or the CZ Scorpion Evo. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle.

The HiPoint 995 looks alright, except I'm leery of the magazine location.
I sent in a form for an SBR AR9 last month, total was 1600 with tax stamp included. Don't have any pics but it came with red dot/magnifier and takes MP5 mags which is cool. Hopefully get it this month cause it was private seller and not dealer so my wait time shouldn't be aids. Total barrel length is 4in and it's configured in a way where the barrel/handguard screws off and the stock folds for backpack carry. I'm probably going to go all autistic with it where i have 2 separate briefcases for it. One for transportation where i can carry copies of my paperwork when i goto ranges, and a 2nd one where it'll shoot inside it. My current idea for the shooting briefcase is i code a raspberry pi to turn a servo motor every press of the button since i have all the shit lying around for it, of course I'll have to make absolute sure I'm not breaking any laws with it first and especially make sure the servo doesn't allow it to go full auto. Overall I'm pretty hyped for it and it'll be a fun project with my autistic idea.
 
What do you guys think of PCCs? I really want to pick up a relatively cheap one for the local USPSA matches, but the prices.

It's either $300 for a Keltech S2000 or $2K for a custom AR-9 or the CZ Scorpion Evo. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle.

The HiPoint 995 looks alright, except I'm leery of the magazine location.
Why not build your own? Way cheaper than $2k.
 
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