WWE Champions General - Despite his claims, DSP is still spending thousands of dollars on the WWE Champions mobile game

[grump]

You can literally see Phil hitting the top hundo less than a full page back. He is high up in the ladder almost every time there is an event.

Some people have no doubt spent a lot more than Phil. Pretty sure the top player in every gacha game is some variation on "the servant of a Saudi prince who is paid to win the game on the prince's behalf" and the rest of the top 10 are packed with bored rich people. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the top Champions player had blown half a million or more by now, and I am sure in some games it gets into the multiple millions. But the ultra-sad part is, the people dropping that kind of money on the game probably barely notice the expense. For them it's not even an extravagant purchase and if their friends and family found out they wouldn't care. For Phil, he bounces around in the top 50 and it's a humiliating addiction that has completely destroyed his life. The more he wins, the more of a loser he becomes.

I don't doubt there are some rich ppl but we'd probably find a surprising number of phil level or those of even more modest means. If I recall correctly none of the doxxed players are particularly wealthy. Heck I'm sure some are basically leeching off us to play by being on gubmint assistance at the same time.

 

[Covfefe]

The only skill involved is spending money. Also that's the only "fun." The prince can do that on his own. Why would he let a servant have the fun?

How else is he going to win all the gacha games at once? There aren't enough hours in the day for one man alone to pull all those JPGs.

 

[millais]

The fact that it's an addiction and not necessarily bound immutably to Champions is a promising omen. When Scopely pulls the plug on the game, he won't have a sudden epiphany or moment of realization and decide to turn his finances around. Instead he will just move on to the next WWE gacha in order to fill the vacuum and the spending will continue.

 

[ditto]

I hope Phil never confesses to this dirty secret of his. It's more fun this way.

I don't want him to confess but for it to be revealed incontrovertibly some other way. Hoped it would be called out during the bankruptcy saga.

 

[Cyber Bowling]

The fact that it's an addiction and not necessarily bound immutably to Champions is a promising omen. When Scopely pulls the plug on the game, he won't have a sudden epiphany or moment of realization and decide to turn his finances around. Instead he will just move on to the next WWE gacha in order to fill the vacuum and the spending will continue.

Adding off of this/going back to the enjoyment factor, there's a lot of time where people are addicted to something, but don't really enjoy it. I wouldn't be surprised if, based on some of the things he's said about mobile games in the past as well as a few of the angrier leaks from his Discord conversations, he's pretty miserable and just chasing that initial high he used to get when the game first came out and he could brag to his faction how well he was doing.

To play armchair therapist, it could even go further back to the point where he's trying to recapture not only his glory mobile gaming days, but those fighting tournament days, back when he actually left the house and had friends and could make good money without having to beg or go clown mode. I'd actually wager that WWE has been ruined for him for some time now, especially since he was having so much faction trouble, but he just lacks the willpower to stop playing, so he's still logging in and still throwing his money into the void thinking it'll bring him happiness.

 

[Prince Lotor]

Adding off of this/going back to the enjoyment factor, there's a lot of time where people are addicted to something, but don't really enjoy it. I wouldn't be surprised if, based on some of the things he's said about mobile games in the past as well as a few of the angrier leaks from his Discord conversations, he's pretty miserable and just chasing that initial high he used to get when the game first came out and he could brag to his faction how well he was doing.

To play armchair therapist, it could even go further back to the point where he's trying to recapture not only his glory mobile gaming days, but those fighting tournament days, back when he actually left the house and had friends and could make good money without having to beg or go clown mode. I'd actually wager that WWE has been ruined for him for some time now, especially since he was having so much faction trouble, but he just lacks the willpower to stop playing, so he's still logging in and still throwing his money into the void thinking it'll bring him happiness.

Especially in gambling addiction it's not the 'jackpot/dopamine hit' that drives the behavior, it's the anticipation of the payoff that is the true reason behind the behavior. Once addiction sets in the traditional behavior -> reward -> reinforcement cycle changes to behavior -> anticipation of reward -> reinforcement where the anticipation is now driving the addiction and the actual dopamine hit from a reward is such a short lived high that the gambler actually gets less out of the reward than the high of anticipating the reward. Having to chase the dragon harder to get his fix isn't a deterrent. In the addict getting the reward just makes them feel normal again and kills the excitement roller coaster of anticipation.

It's a vicious cycle where losing, even to the point of going bust (bankruptcy anyone?), isn't even a deterrent to the gambling addict and in fact strengthens the addiction. The deeper the hole they are in the greater the excitement of anticipating getting themselves out of it.
To a non-addict seeing Phil post about how much money he had to go through sounds like he's talking about a bad time he had during spending more than he was happy with to get his fix.
To Phil the addict though he is relating a story about an enjoyable time where he got higher on anticipation with every further money dump until finally he got the ultimate payoff of getting to look at half-naked, sweaty, oiled up Golden Hulk Hogan jpgs.
The other addicts are eagerly listening to his story because they are feeding off his 2nd hand anticipation. Almost half the time that I've heard addicts tell drawn out, detailed stories of some difficult or frantic effort they had to go through to get their next dose they forget to even mention whether they got it or not and have to be prompted to finish the story, because to them the interesting part ended when their anticipation did.

Imagine if you started to get really into masturbation(behavior), but you can only have so many orgasms(payoff), so you start edging(behavior with anticipation, but no payoff), and eventually you start not even really liking having an orgasm and would rather spend your time edging and generally only came on accident.

He was a mobile gaming addict for several years before WWE Champions came out, he'll still be an addict regardless of WWE Champions. Even as far back as the early 2000's he was gambling on fighting game matches and he didn't even have money then, this is from the same time period that he talks about funding his lifestyle with credit card debt iirc

 

[ReentryPhantom]

Scary thought. What if WWE Champions isn't the only game he whales in?

 

[Dizzyuntildeath]

Especially in gambling addiction it's not the 'jackpot/dopamine hit' that drives the behavior, it's the anticipation of the payoff that is the true reason behind the behavior. Once addiction sets in the traditional behavior -> reward -> reinforcement cycle changes to behavior -> anticipation of reward -> reinforcement where the anticipation is now driving the addiction and the actual dopamine hit from a reward is such a short lived high that the gambler actually gets less out of the reward than the high of anticipating the reward. Having to chase the dragon harder to get his fix isn't a deterrent. In the addict getting the reward just makes them feel normal again and kills the excitement roller coaster of anticipation.

It's a vicious cycle where losing, even to the point of going bust (bankruptcy anyone?), isn't even a deterrent to the gambling addict and in fact strengthens the addiction. The deeper the hole they are in the greater the excitement of anticipating getting themselves out of it.
To a non-addict seeing Phil post about how much money he had to go through sounds like he's talking about a bad time he had during spending more than he was happy with to get his fix.
To Phil the addict though he is relating a story about an enjoyable time where he got higher on anticipation with every further money dump until finally he got the ultimate payoff of getting to look at half-naked, sweaty, oiled up Golden Hulk Hogan jpgs.
The other addicts are eagerly listening to his story because they are feeding off his 2nd hand anticipation. Almost half the time that I've heard addicts tell drawn out, detailed stories of some difficult or frantic effort they had to go through to get their next dose they forget to even mention whether they got it or not and have to be prompted to finish the story, because to them the interesting part ended when their anticipation did.

Imagine if you started to get really into masturbation(behavior), but you can only have so many orgasms(payoff), so you start edging(behavior with anticipation, but no payoff), and eventually you start not even really liking having an orgasm and would rather spend your time edging and generally only came on accident.

He was a mobile gaming addict for several years before WWE Champions came out, he'll still be an addict regardless of WWE Champions. Even as far back as the early 2000's he was gambling on fighting game matches and he didn't even have money then, this is from the same time period that he talks about funding his lifestyle with credit card debt iirc

That was actually a well written description of the gambling addiction mechanics.
You may have one like.

 

[hundredthousand]

Scary thought. What if WWE Champions isn't the only game he whales in?

Didn't he have some marvel game with a decent account? Probably nothing like champions though...

He probably thinks of $50 on a different game as just $50 less on his main fix game. I believe he is depleting his bank accounts on this game on almost a daily basis which is why he never has a buffer in his PayPal account to protect himself from going negative.

 

[Cyber Bowling]

Scary thought. What if WWE Champions isn't the only game he whales in?

We know he whaled in the past, but I don't think he has the attention span for another game. He also has the mentality that whatever he's interested in is the best game, so I don't think he'd want to play something else, just like how he's reluctant to play any other version of Street Fighter besides the obscure copy he won on. Plus, wrestling is one of the few things he seems interested in, so I can't imagine another mobile game would have a greater allure.

But since this is all speculation as it is, I could see a world where he was potentially playing a second game with Khet, if she was also a gacha addict. As far as I know, Bethesda hasn't released a Skyrim gacha, so it seems unlikely. And even in this hypothetical, I don't know if Phil cares enough about Khet to express interest in something she does, yet alone offer to join her. Despite both being gamers, I can't recall Phil ever mentioning playing something with her, outside of those empty promises before he officially imported her as his soulmaid.

 

[WolverineGuy22]

DownFromTheRafters was online until at least 4:00 PST.

DownFromTheRafters was last online at 4:30 PST. One of the hardest working men on the internet.

 

[gh0stzero]

As far as I know, Bethesda hasn't released a Skyrim gacha, so it seems unlikely.

https://elderscrolls.bethesda.net/en/blades

I cant see where you give them money and I'm not going to download it just to find out.

There is also elder scrolls legends

 

[actually]

Scary thought. What if WWE Champions isn't the only game he whales in?

Didn't he have some marvel game with a decent account? Probably nothing like champions though...

He probably thinks of $50 on a different game as just $50 less on his main fix game. I believe he is depleting his bank accounts on this game on almost a daily basis which is why he never has a buffer in his PayPal account to protect himself from going negative.

DBZ Dokkan Battle, WWE Supercard, Marvel: Future Fight. WWE Supercard he openly admitted he whaled in. Dokkan Battle, we can assume based on him showing "pull" results on Twitter at the time. Marvel: Future Fight, I found a whaled-out account under "TheyCallMeDSP". He's also talked about playing Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, but you can't search for accounts, so that is only an assumed whale game.

 

[TheGoutburglar]

The only reason I could see Phil relegating himself to one game is if the others simply don't facilitate his desire to buy his way into being a big-shot the way that Champions does. As fucking predatory as the game appears to be, that IS a possibility, but without knowing the other games very well, I still can't say.

All I know for sure is that it won't be a good reason he only plays Champions, because there never is a good reason behind any of his decisions.

 

[DarkSoulsPhil]

I dont think he can afford to whale in more than 1 game. Scopely prices on pulls is fucked.

 

[The Penultimate Warrior]

I dont think he can afford to whale in more than 1 game. Scopely prices on pulls is fucked.

You can if you put them on credit cards then get the debt wiped off

 

[Julia Chang]

I think it's probable that he does currently play another mobage of some kind. Having said that, I would find it hard to believe the he's invested anywhere close to as much in that potential game as he has in WWE Champions. WWE Champions is clearly his preferred gacha.

Aside from the fact it's wrestling-related (which he still very obviously loves, even going as far as to make his Discord image wrestling-related), Phil seems to spend a lot of time on it. Several hours each day, often very late into the night, I consider myself a pretty active gamer but Phil has probably played more WWE Champions alone than any of us have played any videogame in the past year. I'm sure there are days when he plays WWE Champions more than he played games on stream, though frankly that's not a hard figure to beat when you consider almost half of his "work hours" are just prestream and breaks. He is constantly logging in at all hours of the day and is always at the top of what is, as we've discovered, a very, very grind-heavy game. I bet nearly all of his free time is just WWE Champions, and I wouldn't be surprised if nearly all of his disposable income is also just WWE Champions.

Like I said, I don't doubt that he's probably playing another game, but the amount of time and money he spends on that is insignificant compared to the time and money vortex for him that is WWE Champions.

(Sidenote, can we do a poll or try to get an estimate on just how much has been spent is at this point? The $40k figure seems more and more conservative as time goes on - personally I think it is likely to be six figures at this point)

 

[Prince Lotor]

I think it's probable that he does currently play another mobage of some kind. Having said that, I would find it hard to believe the he's invested anywhere close to as much in that potential game as he has in WWE Champions. WWE Champions is clearly his preferred gacha.

Aside from the fact it's wrestling-related (which he still very obviously loves, even going as far as to make his Discord image wrestling-related), Phil seems to spend a lot of time on it. Several hours each day, often very late into the night, I consider myself a pretty active gamer but Phil has probably played more WWE Champions alone than any of us have played any videogame in the past year. I'm sure there are days when he plays WWE Champions more than he played games on stream, though frankly that's not a hard figure to beat when you consider almost half of his "work hours" are just prestream and breaks. He is constantly logging in at all hours of the day and is always at the top of what is, as we've discovered, a very, very grind-heavy game. I bet nearly all of his free time is just WWE Champions, and I wouldn't be surprised if nearly all of his disposable income is also just WWE Champions.

Like I said, I don't doubt that he's probably playing another game, but the amount of time and money he spends on that is insignificant compared to the time and money vortex for him that is WWE Champions.

(Sidenote, can we do a poll or try to get an estimate on just how much has been spent is at this point? The $40k figure seems more and more conservative as time goes on - personally I think it is likely to be six figures at this point)

Regarding your sidenote asking for an updated spending estimate, I made this post at the end of January when Phil's account reached max VIP level and that provided a timeline that I got an average estimate for his monthly spending on the game from. It has been about 9 months since then so ($38,976+$1,771.64×9 months=) at least $54,920.76. And that number doesn't include anything he spent on the game before March 2018. $55K to $60+K is about right.

According to that chart it takes $19,355 just to get from VIP level 12 to 13 by itself. Getting from VIP level 11 to 12 is what costs $10K, getting from VIP level 8 to 12 costs $19,621. It takes a total of $38,976 of in game purchases to go from VIP level 8 to 13.

In this video from March 30, 2018 it seems the new VIP features were very recently released and this guy talks about 'some previous purchases being applied to your new VIP level', so this would be around when the new VIP level cap was released. This guy is VIP level 7 in this video.

So now we have a nice timeline. It has been about 22 months since the new VIP level cap was released. This would average out to Phil spending $1,771.64 per month on WWE Champions from April 2018 through today, or $442.91 per week, or $63.27 per day, if you believe this is Phil as I do. If he was spending in splurges when he was flush with cash or an event was happening as seems to be the case the routine money dumps into the game would be lower with various spikes of splurge spending.

ETA: Maybe Kathy is actually helping out with bills and the extra money she's giving him is going schtraight towards half-naked hairy pixel-men. This would explain why her 2nd income isn't helping them at all, and Phil says he's only been making minimum payments on his credit card debt and loans and getting threats to send him into collections.

 

[TurboSwine]

I don't think Phil is even a top 100 player in this. So how much more have people spent on this than Phil?

I wish I had motivation, talent, and money, it would make a fascinating documentary. There's some stories about recovered whales if you search around. People just decimating their lives all over a mobile game.

 

[Dizzyuntildeath]

I wish I had motivation, talent, and money, it would make a fascinating documentary. There's some stories about recovered whales if you search around. People just decimating their lives all over a mobile game.

Gambling!
Jazz hands