Cyberpunk 2077 Grieving Thread

But maybe someone shouldn't have to own 100 hard drives just to download modern titles? The latest COD is 200 gigabytes. For what reason? Modern developers do not know how to compress data.
Compression is cannot be infinite, lossless, and without processor demands, maybe they should have included another processor but seeing as you are too poor to afford above a 1tb drive I don't think that solution would have worked for you.
 
For a minute there I misread that as "buying" and got confused.
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ELEX is amazing. I can never get any Gothic games to run for longer than 15 minutes without crashing though.

Likewise. I have Gothic 2 on my GOG account and I downloaded the arseloads of patches that makes it run on modern systems, and it did, and in 4K no less! Only, something seemed a bit, off. Then I realised what it was. All the NPCs and mobs had vanished from existence.
 
Likewise. I have Gothic 2 on my GOG account and I downloaded the arseloads of patches that makes it run on modern systems, and it did, and in 4K no less! Only, something seemed a bit, off. Then I realised what it was. All the NPCs and mobs had vanished from existence.

I searched around and unlike Bethesda games which also crash like a motherfucker there do not appear to be comprehensive modder made stability/bugfix patches to Gothic games so they are essentially unplayable at least for me.
 
Compression is cannot be infinite, lossless, and without processor demands, maybe they should have included another processor but seeing as you are too poor to afford above a 1tb drive I don't think that solution would have worked for you.
I do not mean the compression of the final package, I mean realizing that not every texture needs to be an 8k super res mess, that not every cement slab need 4.5 billion polygons and that audio files don't all need to be completely uncompressed. AAA devs in general need to learn that the graphics rat race is silly at this point and there's only been minor improvements over the past few years. Regardless, the install size increase of games don't seem to be directly correlating to massive hardware improvements, so what exactly is the reason? Cyberpunk, an open world game, still somehow only requires 1/3rd of the space a first person shooter does, despite similar graphical bells and whistles.
 
I do not mean the compression of the final package, I mean realizing that not every texture needs to be an 8k super res mess, that not every cement slab need 4.5 billion polygons and that audio files don't all need to be completely uncompressed. AAA devs in general need to learn that the graphics rat race is silly at this point and there's only been minor improvements over the past few years. Regardless, the install size increase of games don't seem to be directly correlating to massive hardware improvements, so what exactly is the reason? Cyberpunk, an open world game, still somehow only requires 1/3rd of the space a first person shooter does, despite similar graphical bells and whistles.
Make the games 500gig for all I care, storage gets cheaper every year.

The install size of cyberpunk being that small really tells you a lot more about it than the install size of cod being big.
 
Likewise. I have Gothic 2 on my GOG account and I downloaded the arseloads of patches that makes it run on modern systems, and it did, and in 4K no less! Only, something seemed a bit, off. Then I realised what it was. All the NPCs and mobs had vanished from existence.
Having all of the NPCs and enemies disappear sounds more fun then any game to have come out in the last ten years.
 
GTA 3 fit on a single 4.7GB DVD. 70GB is fuck-huge for any game. It's pure developer incompetence and compensation for shitty console hardware that leads to this ridiculous explosion in game sizes.
The main reason is disc size. Like you said, GTA 3 (and 4) had to fit on a single DVD, now games have duel layer blu-rays at their disposal. We've seen this with every new format from CDs.

It's not helped when people throw a conniption if they see a texture repeated or a texture that's less than 8k. It makes for good glitch compilations, but it can be hard to tell where sarcasm ends and genuine rage begins.
 
The main reason is disc size. Like you said, GTA 3 (and 4) had to fit on a single DVD, now games have duel layer blu-rays at their disposal. We've seen this with every new format from CDs.

It's not helped when people throw a conniption if they see a texture repeated or a texture that's less than 8k. It makes for good glitch compilations, but it can be hard to tell where sarcasm ends and genuine rage begins.
But the problem is we don't even have discs that can fit many games entirely anymore, forcing the rest to be installed on whatever your storage medium is. Shadow of War came out a few years ago and has a final install of around 110 gigabytes, slightly above what the previous gen's discs were able to store. The newest blu-ray type supports up to 120 gigs of write-only, which puts it quite a bit below the insane install of the recent cod titles. Even an online game, Destiny 2, is over 100 gigs now. Either a new format is invented or discs no longer fit the latest AAA titles.
 
But the problem is we don't even have discs that can fit many games entirely anymore, forcing the rest to be installed on whatever your storage medium is. Shadow of War came out a few years ago and has a final install of around 110 gigabytes, slightly above what the previous gen's discs were able to store. The newest blu-ray type supports up to 120 gigs of write-only, which puts it quite a bit below the insane install of the recent cod titles. Even an online game, Destiny 2, is over 100 gigs now. Either a new format is invented or discs no longer fit the latest AAA titles.
Videogame disk have been obsolete since day one patches been a thing.
 
That shit was excusable with isometrics, but "skill" shouldn't affect spread of a bullet after it leaves the chamber.
To be fair, if you're an untrained shooter and you can't keep your gun steady or handle the recoil, that's what it looks like from the outside, so I wouldn't call it a purely bullshit mechanic. Well, not unless we're talking ME1 levels of inaccuracy. Now when it comes to CP2077, I don't know about the gun itself staying on target, but in one interview the devs did mention recoil as a mechanism that's controlled by character skill levels, so a skilled player should be able to compensate for it, even if the character can't.
 
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Reactions: Brain Problems
Saw a thread full of webms showing off a stellar drive-by shooting segment (guy gets shot in the head at a phenomenally fast snail's pace, still kicking) and the amazing attention to detail in a POV cutscene (driver manages to turn the car without moving the wheel). PS5 apparently.
Then someone posted this:
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I really hope this is legit. Can anyone confirm?
 
I do not mean the compression of the final package, I mean realizing that not every texture needs to be an 8k super res mess, that not every cement slab need 4.5 billion polygons and that audio files don't all need to be completely uncompressed. AAA devs in general need to learn that the graphics rat race is silly at this point and there's only been minor improvements over the past few years. Regardless, the install size increase of games don't seem to be directly correlating to massive hardware improvements, so what exactly is the reason? Cyberpunk, an open world game, still somehow only requires 1/3rd of the space a first person shooter does, despite similar graphical bells and whistles.

consoles already put a lid on that with their limited ram and power. the amount is the difference - you could have your game take 2 mb, but it would end up like this:

 
The main reason is disc size. Like you said, GTA 3 (and 4) had to fit on a single DVD, now games have duel layer blu-rays at their disposal. We've seen this with every new format from CDs.

It's not helped when people throw a conniption if they see a texture repeated or a texture that's less than 8k. It makes for good glitch compilations, but it can be hard to tell where sarcasm ends and genuine rage begins.
Yeah, I totally get it that visual fidelity expectations have gone up and that requires more space, but there's still a lot of room for savings that developers just don't seem to care about anymore.

Audio comes to mind. Developers seem to be shipping audio completely uncompressed these days -- music, dialogue, sound effects, everything. And for games with lots of dialogue, they include all the audio for every translation. That inclusion is obviously necessary for an on-disc game, but for an online game, it's pretty silly when each language can be made a separate free DLC.

Using uncompressed audio is inexcusable, though. I've seen games that have 5+ GB just in uncompressed audio. Even using 320kbps high-quality MP3 compression, that can easily be reduced to under 1GB. We've had good high-speed MP3 decoders for 20 years now. Today, it's essentially free in terms of CPU resource consumption and it reduces disk I/O and storage space by a factor of up to 10x. Ogg Vorbis has similar performance and is open-source and royalty/patent free, so that isn't a concern either. There's AAC as well, but there's licensing fees involved in using it commercially.

Uncompressed textures and other graphics assets are silly too IMHO. Practically every graphics card manufactured in the last 10 years has supported compressed textures in all sorts of formats. They take up less space on disk, require less memory on loading and transfer faster to the GPU, which keeps them in compressed form in VRAM, decompressing them on-the-fly during texture lookups. The decompressed texture is never stored in memory anywhere; it's all done on-the-fly by the hardware, and to my knowledge there is no performance penalty for this as it's handled by the shaders.

As with audio compression, there's a wide variety of texture compression standards supported by modern hardware and there are free/open-source compression tools available. The only downside, of course, is that it takes longer to "bake" texture assets since they have to be compressed in the pipeline. There are hardware-based compressors that can accelerate the process though. And the game engine needs
to support compressed textures as well, but practically all of them do.

I just don't buy the argument anymore that compressing game resources has an in-game performance penalty. The hardware is too good now (even on the consoles) for it to be a problem these days. I'll grant that decompression is not always a zero cost operation, but it's an extraordinarily low cost operation that either only has to happen once per resource or can be done in hardware at no extra cost.

There's other bits of silliness too from lazy developers, like including alpha channels on textures that don't need them, making textures too large (you really don't need an 8k texture for that distant mountain range the player can never reach, I promise) and not using engine and hardware features to add detail instead of trying to cram it into the textures. There's also a tendency to use insanely high-poly models and terrain where it's not needed, especially when techniques like tessellation can add detail at runtime when used correctly. Again, those distant mountains the player can never reach don't really need to be million-poly models when 10k poly models with tessellation will do the job just as well.

I still maintain that developers just aren't using all the techniques at their disposal to reduce game footprints and optimize their games. Maybe it's because they just don't have enough time during development to integrate them, or maybe it's because they've gotten complacent since bandwidth is cheap and so is storage (at least on PCs). It's astonishing though that they're not taking the time to reduce game footprints on the consoles, though.

Just imagine owning a PS5 or Xbox-whatever and only being able to play 6-7 games on demand before running out of space, and having to delete a game to make room for another 100GB+ game that could take hours to download depending on your broadband link. If you've got shitty internet, it could take days to install a game or download its patches at these sizes. That's just god damn awful. Sure, PC users don't have infinite storage either, but at least they can add lots of storage as needed, whereas the consoles either don't support expansion storage at all or only offer USB connections for external storage. That's going to be slower than SATA or PCIe/M.2, even if you're using SSDs.

</sperg>

ETA:
consoles already put a lid on that with their limited ram and power.
Nah, compression should be a net gain for consoles, in terms of on-disk footprint, loading times and memory use. See above for an explanation. Modern gaming hardware has more than enough horsepower to decompress game assets on the fly without any noticeable impact on performance. They often have hardware that can handle a lot of that work at no performance cost at all (there's audio/video decoders on every GPU today, for example, that have their own dedicated space on the die -- using them doesn't involve the rest of the GPU so that work can be offloaded for free onto an otherwise idle component).
 
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