The Confederate Flag

[Cid Highwind]

I take it you don't agree with @Captain Cid that the idea of banning the flag is inconceivable in the USA?

It would be nice in principle, but it runs aground some serious 1st Amendment issues.

I'm not a southerner btw. Pure Californian. I had the wrong idea and honestly thought that people were thinking about banning the flag. MSNBC and the rest of the news made it seem that way. I haven't been keeping track on this controversy.

I realized after I posted that it could be inferred I was referring to you since Dudeofteenage quoted you to support what he was saying, but I didn't mean for it to come off that way. With all the idiots in the media talking about how "we can't ban the confederate flag from everywhere!", it's easy to understand how some people are mistaken that that argument is even being brought up in a legal sense.

Yeah, the North should just conquer and enslave the South already - so many problems would be fixed if the North dominated the entire US, right? Am I right?! I mean, they do know what's best and all for everyone............ Said only SJWs and their ilk.

I'm no SJW, just a former southerner who hated it there so much, I moved away. Born in Mississippi, raised in Louisiana, I've spent my entire childhood in the region we are discussing from a solid month in Birningham, Alabama to repeated vacations in Florida, Georgia and Tennessee. But I can't control what you think, so go ahead and make whatever assumptions you feel are necessary. Maybe you should spend a few years in the south before you do.

 

[Shokew]

I'm no SJW, just a former southerner who hated it there so much, I moved away. Born in Mississippi, raised in Louisiana, I've spent my entire childhood in the region we are discussing from a solid month in Birningham, Alabama to repeated vacations in Florida, Georgia and Tennessee. But I can't control what you think, so go ahead and make whatever assumptions you feel are necessary. Maybe you should spend a few years in the south before you do.

I've been living with family in South Carolina for some time now - in terms of political BS, it just stinks overall, TBH - so I know what you're getting at. Me? I don't like being dominated by Conservatives who hate women, black people (like myself), LGBTQs, and the like, overall. However, I've grown to like living here more than I did NJ...

However, once I finish college, I'm considering going back up North where the smarter folk and actual jobs for what I'm going to school for actually are, TBH with you. TOO BAD it wasn't any better, either. I spent my childhood in both Philadelphia and Southern New Jersey - let me tell you... IT SUCKED.

 

[Teddy]

I take it you don't agree with @Captain Cid that the idea of banning the flag is inconceivable in the USA?

The idea of the flag being banned doesn't seem that far-fetched imo. However, I believe most Americans (Southerner or not) would be against it. Not because they are for the flag and its negative implications, but because they don't want the government telling them that we can't own a flag because some people are offended by it.

I could never live in the South @Captain Cid. Even though I'm right leaning, I don't want to be grouped up with ignorant people who give conservatives a bad name.

 

[Cid Highwind]

I've been living with family in South Carolina for some time now - in terms of political BS, it just stinks overall, TBH - so I know what you're getting at. Me? I don't like being dominated by Conservatives who hate women, black people (like myself), LGBTQs, and the like, overall. However, I've grown to like living here more than I did NJ...

However, once I finish college, I'm considering going back up North where the smarter folk and actual jobs for what I'm going to school for actually are, TBH with you. TOO BAD it wasn't any better, either. I spent my childhood in both Philadelphia and Southern New Jersey - let me tell you... IT SUCKED.

What part of South Carolina are you in? Do you find that racial tensions there have heightened over the past several months? Despite being the first confederate state to turn traitor, South Carolina can be pretty, it has actual coastline unlike the tiny slivers of overpopulated beaches that Mississippi and Alabama have. For those of you that have never been, Louisiana has no solid coastline. It's all marsh.

The idea of the flag being banned doesn't seem that far-fetched imo. However, I believe most Americans (Southerner or not) would be against it. Not because they are for the flag and its negative implications, but because they don't want the government telling us that we can't own a flag. '

I could never live in the South @Captain Cid. Even though I'm right leaning, I don't want to be grouped up with ignorant people who give conservatives a bad name.

I'm against it only because I like the idea that idiots are willing to let me know they are idiots without me having to talk to them. Conservatives in the south are a different breed. I prefer the more libertarian minded conservatives that are found in western states, not people who are overly concerned about "culture war".

 

[Teddy]

Most Southern conservatives only seem to be concern with trivial social issues that are obsolete. 1980s Conspiracy theories comes to mind. Or how Obama has ties to Alinsky, and his name is actually Barry. I don't even like the man and I'm sure he has a sketchy background, but come on. This isn't 2008 anymore.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

The idea of the flag being banned doesn't seem that far-fetched imo.

You guys need to get your stories straight.

 

[AnOminous]

The idea of the flag being banned doesn't seem that far-fetched imo.

In what country? It would be flagrantly unconstitutional.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

In what country? It would be flagrantly unconstitutional.

I'll tell you in which country, in the America of Barack HUSSEIN Obama, the Kenyan born socialist who wants to take your guns, give your money to the Chinese, make your dear old grandma plead for her life in front of a death panel, something something Benghazi, and ban the display of the Confederate flag.

 

[Cid Highwind]

I'll tell you in which country, in the America of Barack HUSSEIN Obama, the Kenyan born socialist who wants to take your guns, give your money to the Chinese, make your dear old grandma plead for her life in front of a death panel, something something Benghazi, and ban the display of the Confederate flag.

You forgot FEMA camps.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

You forgot FEMA camps.

I am but a man.

 

[JU 199]

I'll tell you in which country, in the America of Barack HUSSEIN Obama, the Kenyan born socialist who wants to take your guns, give your money to the Chinese, make your dear old grandma plead for her life in front of a death panel, something something Benghazi, and ban the display of the Confederate flag.

You forgot secret Muslim.

 

[DrChristianTroy]

Indeed I have. But like you said, around the world. Not in Germany, Austria or any of the other countries that were so negatively affected by Nazi Germany that they subsequently outlawed Nazi imagery.

True. Where instead of flying a Swastika flag white power rallies have used the Confederate flag as a substitute. Shit's racist as fuck. Take it down, piss off a few rednecks, and move on.

 

[sugoi-chan]

True. Where instead of flying a Swastika flag white power rallies have used the Confederate flag as a substitute. Shit's racist as fuck. Take it down, piss off a few rednecks, and move on.

My favorite is when they combine the two!

Cause nothing says "I have no idea what I'm talking about, do not take me seriously" like throwing together a whole bunch of symbols that don't even come close to representing the same concepts as proof of your pride or whatever.

The worst part of this picture is that it was taken in New Jersey, my home state. We never seceded you fucking hillbilly.

 

[Shokew]

What part of South Carolina are you in? Do you find that racial tensions there have heightened over the past several months? Despite being the first confederate state to turn traitor, South Carolina can be pretty, it has actual coastline unlike the tiny slivers of overpopulated beaches that Mississippi and Alabama have. For those of you that have never been, Louisiana has no solid coastline. It's all marsh.

I'm living in the Myrtle Beach area, so it's not like I'm bored or anything. Still, someday I'll have to move somewhere more... Progressive, or better yet, intelligent, especially since it gets boring as fuck here after Summer.

I'm glad you got out of your bad situation when you did, I'll admit - so I know where you're coming from, or so I'd like to think.

 

[Anchuent Christory]

It's one of those situations where the more you suggest that somebody shouldn't be doing something, the more the other side will go out of their way to do it.
All these people know is that the other side doesn't like something, so by golly we're gonna show 'em.

Kinda like those folk who outfit their trucks to spew black exhaust fumes in defiance of the suggestion that they should really be more eco friendly.

 

[Marvin]

Heh, if anyone remembers David Cross' fued with Larry the Cable Guy, David Cross wrote an open letter to Larry the Cable Guy which is a really great (if somewhat long) read on its own. But regardless, I found this section to be pretty relevant:

Since I was a kid I’ve always been a little over sensitive to the glorification and rewarding of dumb. The “salt of the earth, regular, every day folk” (or lowest common denominator) who see the world, and the people like me in it, as on some sort of secular mission to take away their flag lapels and plaster-of-paris jesus television adornments strike me as childishly paranoid.

I see confederate heritage nonsense as a desperate attempt to hold onto their honor. Like, they lost, but they still want to feel like they have some control over the situation. We're still here! They haven't killed us yet!

And, while I can sympathize with the general emotions they're expression, I just have to tell them: dude, you're more than just a weird, racist southerner. You can let it go. Just... let it go.

It's a weird expression of conservatism that their identity is so tied to their history. They focus on that in lieu of an identity tied to things recent or personal.

 

[Tookie]

Historical trivia: The Confederate flag usually flown is the battle flag of the CSA. The national flag of the CSA went through several versions but this was the one in use in later years of the Civil War:

It was dubbed the "White Man's Flag" by its designer and the large white field represented "the supremacy of the white man."

Also, while the Confederate constitution granted wide latitude to member states to create legislation, it did specifically override state's rights in one notable area: states could never move towards abolition or restricting ownership of slaves.

But it totally isn't racist guys.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

Anecdotes are not data, but I once met a young black man at a very liberal college (We were both visitors. This college was so liberal, there were College Greens, College Democrats, but no College Republicans) who wore a Confederate Battle Flag as a patch.

Where I'm from, the Battle Flag is seen as super-racist*, so I asked him why he wore it.

He told me he was well-aware the flag was used by bigots that wished him harm, perhaps even death, but he interpreted the flag as a flag of resistance against authority, not exclusively as a flag of subjugation.

In that context, it made some sense: He viewed those bigots the same way those bigots viewed the Federal government: as a dangerous gang of bullies, who do as they wish, hiding behind their uniforms and their guns... and the Battle Flag was as good a symbol as any to say "Fuck you" right back at them.

*I am adamantly against banning the flag. One, freedom of speech, motherfucker; Two, it makes it easier for me to identify people I don't wish to associate with.

 

[Bronchitis that Lingers]

*I am adamantly against banning the flag. One, freedom of speech, motherfucker; Two, it makes it easier for me to identify people I don't wish to associate with.

This is exactly why I'm against banning it; freedom of speech. Set the precedent that you can abolish a flag based on an interpretation of it, and more freedoms will dissolve. What if someone is passionately anti government, and has an anarchy flag in their front lawn? Yeah it's dumb, but would it be right to outright ban someone from flying it? Or outlaw wearing sleeveless jean jackets with anarchy patches? It has the potential to snowball over time.

I've only seen the confederate flag flown once outside of DC, so my views on this are very skewed. I do live in the south now, but I was raised in the southwest. Until I saw the flag being flown (it was around nine years ago, visiting family), I honestly didn't know it was still a thing. The area I live now, I guarantee flying the flag would start a shitstorm and not be tolerated, but I don't live in an area that's predominantly white/full of people that would consider this "ok". I've never seen concequence come of it, unlike others have. It's my own personal bias due to ignorance on the matter.

Regardless, it shouldn't be banned. Banning it sends a worse message than the flag itself.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Once again: Nobody is suggesting banning the flag, and yet we've still got people devoting time and energy to explaining why they shouldn't.

While you're at it, what's your opinion on giving guns to unicorns?