General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[Pinot Pierrot]

I know it's a lot more nuanced then that, but from an outsider's perspective, it might not seem that much different than what happened with the Chinese fanbase during the whole Coco/Haachama debacle. I do wonder now with Hololive EN's success and JP's overseas fanbase how much power they have when it comes to having a say with how certain talents are treated. (Given a large enough controversy)

I explained the Towa situation to someone recently, and how I interpreted the whole thing was that, while Chinese nationalists are nasty but predictable in how you can garner their contempt, Japan's much bigger demographic is rife with strange folk like gachikois, zealous fans of rival agencies, former fans who've lost patience with Cover's moments of incompetence and replaced it with hatred, and concern trolls who would portray certain girls as liabilities to the group as a whole.

Such a "diverse" group would lead to inconsistent responses in the past, since previous Hologirls were able to collaborate with male talents without too much of a fuss. It just so happens that both Towa and Aloe caught these folks on very bad days when they all mooed in unison. The fact that the JP and EN sides of the fandom have argued against each other during both times only escalated the drama. I actually think the Taiwan incident had the unintentional benefit of giving everyone a common enemy to hate, so anyone else trying to pull the same thing nowadays would just be lumped in the same group as the Chinese nationalists.

 

[Takodachi]

One more game with fans: part 5

 

[The One And Only SALTE]

That's really reductionist. The reality is actually pretty complicated and also off-topic so I'll keep it short. Let me put it like this--the idol industry, on the surface, much like anything moe-related, has been compared multiple times to the "floating world" of the geisha. This is really apparent in maid cafes. The idol industry has morphed into it from what it started out as (which was a copy of the French idol industry of the mid-to-late 1970s). It sells a fantasy world, pure-and-simple. The problem is, some people stop living in reality and instead live in the fantasy bubble and rail against anything that shatters the fantasy. On the other hand, the Japanese management sees the talents as mere products to be sold and by controlling every aspect of their lives, they reduce any variables that might interfere with their profit margins. Hell, Japanese management sees EVERYONE as mere cogs in a machine, anyway.

Basically the truth of the idol industry is somewhere between the presented image of a fun place to work and Perfect Blue.

Seriously, anyone interested in the darker side of the idol industry should read that book or watch the anime movie. It's...pretty fucking grim, but bear in mind that it is showcasing the worst of the worst in terms of the idol industry, so it's not exactly entirely truthful.

Aside from the Aloe bits that people have talked about and everything involving Towa, other bits have come out involving hololive's original mission statement to tow the line as close to normal idol industry as much as possible, with that being...Matsuri. I can't find the clips of it and I don't feel like looking it up but she has spoken out about how bad management of the first generation was, especially towards her. She got a lot of shit for being who she was on camera and not giving a fuck about maintaining an image of purity, and management only really let up when they let in even crazier bitches with gen 2. Even after that there were still a ton of issues and they tried to tardwrangle Coco HARD when she got started, until they realized how much money she was pulling in.

This is a very personal rrat regarding hololive management but I honestly believe that YAGOO, being the fucking nerd he is making VR tech, didn't know a fucking thing about the idol industry and hired a bunch of former real idol managers in order to help run hololive in the early days, which is why their approach to it was marketing the girls as a product for the sale of their VR tech until they realized that more people were interested in the talent. Showbiz execs are slimy no matter where you are in the world and I have no doubt that the hololive managers were like that in the early days. After that I think they had a change in their management approach, especially with how poorly received "replacing" Kizuna Ai was, and started treating the talent much more like living breathing people than products to sell. Canary-in-the-coalmine Fubuki could probably go into more detail about how hololive has changed, for better or worse, since she was there from before they started the rebranding process and seems old enough to know what works and what doesn't. We don't know fuckall about the personal life of Sora but I'm guessing she was more used to "real idol" stuff and so dealt with it as par for the course; Suisei too, although she also was very careful to never undersell herself.

 

[Thomas Talus]

I explained the Towa situation to someone recently, and how I interpreted the whole thing was that, while Chinese nationalists are nasty but predictable in how you can garner their contempt, Japan's much bigger demographic is rife with strange folk like gachikois, zealous fans of rival agencies, former fans who've lost patience with Cover's moments of incompetence and replaced it with hatred, and concern trolls who would portray certain girls as liabilities to the group as a whole.

Thing is, I can't imagine actively disliking any of the Hololive girls, even if there are some like Luna that just aren't my thing.

 

[Hotdogs Aplenty]

Idols don't poop.

Only dirty gaijin poop.

 

[darkestraven]

Thing is, I can't imagine actively disliking any of the Hololive girls, even if there are some like Luna that just aren't my thing.

You're entitled to your opinion I guess... but...

 

[moments fade pain remains]

Thing is, I can't imagine actively disliking any of the Hololive girls, even if there are some like Luna that just aren't my thing.

Dude, don't bring logic and understanding against my autistic screeching! If I don't hate these people for no actual reason, how will I find an excuse to my worthless existence and not deepthroat a shotgun?

 

[ChuubaVital]

Aside from the Aloe bits that people have talked about and everything involving Towa, other bits have come out involving hololive's original mission statement to tow the line as close to normal idol industry as much as possible, with that being...Matsuri. I can't find the clips of it and I don't feel like looking it up but she has spoken out about how bad management of the first generation was, especially towards her. She got a lot of shit for being who she was on camera and not giving a fuck about maintaining an image of purity, and management only really let up when they let in even crazier bitches with gen 2.

 

[Takodachi]

I'll be honest with you chief, if I wanted to hear women complaint about their periods, I wouldnt have distanced myself from my 4 lunatic sisters.

 

[Namesarehardtocomeupwith]

The highlight of the relay for me is finally here.

I wonder what they think about half blood like Rushia or Hoshikawa.

They hated hoshikawa the moment she showed up. Granted it was a combination of different factors but the fact that she was half and popular absolutely made them seething.
Speaking of which, hoshikawa just reached 400k subs today.

 

[kuuu]

Thing is, I can't imagine actively disliking any of the Hololive girls, even if there are some like Luna that just aren't my thing.

Just imagine someone having a narrow vision. Big red flag, iykwim.

 

[Renmai]

Do the japanese fans really expect a grown woman to "live" inside a plastic container, isolated from earthly desires such as food, sex or sleep?

I remember something similar happened I think with the ok boomer girl, people found out she had a boyfriend and she lost a lot of subs.

 

[Bageldon]

Here's a good video I saw sometime last year on how fucked up the idol industry is:

Notable points were that they had to use secret cellphones or tablets to keep tabs on the outside world, they weren't paid for a year and a half and used their first paychecks to pay off loans during that time and the company charged them the cost of the debut as well as some bullshit missed event expenses while they were on tour with Lady Gaga. The gears of the music industry around the world is oiled with the blood of ripped off talent, but in the idol industry, it seems like crushing a kid's dreams and locking them down as an actual debt slave is the end goal.

I could also go into the truth about hostess and host clubs, but that's a bit further outside of the idol tangent and I have an image as a dumb weeb to keep up.

God it reminds me how some agencies are shady as shit. The red from shinkenger diet consists of water from a pond cuz the agency was paying him less than peanuts.
Edit typo

 

[jankhater]

Here's Pekora reflecting on her experiences with Reddit:

I think somebody said it here, but a point I really liked went something like, "The memes aren't really the entertaining part about Meme Review, it's how much they're enjoying themselves."

What little I know about hostesses and hosts is what the Yakuza games have taught me; the girls get paid according to how much cash they can mooch of clients, then in their offtime they spend their salary on host clubs with their masculine counterparts, who in turn return the favor on their off duty, rinse and repeat.

pls, share a short story or two. i have been interested to know more of these kind of things. seems like such a scummy business.

Spoiler: Not an expert, but here's what I know...

So, does anybody remember this chick?

Yuka was actually a hostess in debt to that host she stabbed there.
Agility_ is partially right, the main clientele for hostesses are lonely losers and for male hosts it's actually lonely hostesses, but no, they don't reciprocate. Hostess clubs are actually pretty straight-forward, besides the usual expectation to do some compensated dating with regular customers. Alcoholism is also a big risk on both the male and female ends since it's your job to drink mythical amounts every shift. Host clubs seem to be a little more cut-throat about your position in the hierarchy though: if a woman's preferred host is not available, you, a less experienced host, will serve her that night, but the earnings go to the original host and not you. That's why it's important for a host to lock down a sponsorship from a customer and he'll really work that parasocial relationship inside and outside of work to earn a top spot in the club's ranking. The customers that sponsor him end up racking up debts on their tabs which the hosts are responsible for collecting and you end up with a bunch of suicides every month and a few attacks like with Yuka Takaoka. I read some comments from some other guys that worked at that club after the incident and they went something like, "Yeah, you want to make yourself scarce a few days after collections, he wasn't careful enough."

 

[AkioDayo]

Regardless, I'm very happy the overseas homies could somewhat fill the gap the permavirgin menhera unicorns left in her viewership. Though, some people say that it wasn't her male friends' voices that was the actual yab, but the fact that she lied and said they were Hololive staff, which is what also pissed Cover off and gave her the wrist-slap. But, either way, whatever.

Yeah I've seen this argument thrown too. To which I reply: the very fact that the retarded idea of idols being like dolls exists is the very reason why Towa lied.

I explained the Towa situation to someone recently, and how I interpreted the whole thing was that, while Chinese nationalists are nasty but predictable in how you can garner their contempt, Japan's much bigger demographic is rife with strange folk like gachikois, zealous fans of rival agencies, former fans who've lost patience with Cover's moments of incompetence and replaced it with hatred, and concern trolls who would portray certain girls as liabilities to the group as a whole.

Such a "diverse" group would lead to inconsistent responses in the past, since previous Hologirls were able to collaborate with male talents without too much of a fuss. It just so happens that both Towa and Aloe caught these folks on very bad days when they all mooed in unison. The fact that the JP and EN sides of the fandom have argued against each other during both times only escalated the drama. I actually think the Taiwan incident had the unintentional benefit of giving everyone a common enemy to hate, so anyone else trying to pull the same thing nowadays would just be lumped in the same group as the Chinese nationalists.

Good lads the CN fanbase was. Just how West Taiwan is uniting its neighbours from India to SEA to Japan against them with their ridiculous territorial disputes, the Holo CN fanbase has managed to rally everybody to Haachama and Coco's defense and now they're better and stronger.

 

[Namesarehardtocomeupwith]

Someone is salty she weren't invited to the relay despite being a true and honest cat so she decided to do it all on her own. She have been doing it for 30 minutes and doesn't show any sign of stopping. Will she actually do it until the nijinyanji relay end?

Leona shows off her english skill by singing a whole new world and country road. I already thought she was good but this just blow my mind. As a bonus she sing an enka song toward the end as well.

In case the timestamp didn't work, it's around the 23 minutes mark.

 

[animeclungeiscool]

Fumino Tamaki is doing an Nyan cat cover stream

 

[Takodachi]

And shes singing it unlike the rest.
God speed you noraneko.

edit:
She's using the modulator to mask the fact that shes eating L M A O

 

[DrStupid]

It is 4am in Japan... this is lore I guess, Haato comes out while Haachama is sleeping. I wonder if she got inspired by Suisei? Lots of nostalgia in the superchats.

BGM for anyone who wants it

Akai Haato:

• Officially doesn't know who Haachama is
• Officially doesn't know what a tarantula is
• Apparently wears white pantsu (described as "seiso" according to her)
• Speaks somewhat better english than Haachama does, probably her real ability.
• Now seems to acknowledge Haachama as the other builder of her wall

Seems like she started the stream with "Haachama-chama". No intro. Same BGM the whole way through, speaking softly as opposed to whatever her usual style is called.
Rushia evidently didn't get the memo after a "Oha-rouge" in chat, responded with "Oha-chama"
Mentions of "Haachama kenketsu" seemingly comprising Haachama and Haato

That was... a wholesome experience. Now I can proudly say that I experienced Akai Haato

 

[Rezza]

pls, share a short story or two. i have been interested to know more of these kind of things. seems like such a scummy business.

Hostess and Host are like modern-day Geisha business, they sell the Idea of affection and relationship. A lot of Hostess clientele consists of normal people, tired salaryman that just returned home from work, that kind of normal. Hostess business is also a part of what people call "wet business", which also involved soapland and delivery health, due to its shadiness and sexual nature. But Host are also not less shady. They sometimes engage in way worse practices that involves coercion, blackmail, or straight up rape (their clients are women after all). This sometimes made their clientele much more worse and psychotic than the Hostess are.

They hated hoshikawa the moment she showed up. Granted it was a combination of different factors but the fact that she was half and popular absolutely made them seething.
Speaking of which, hoshikawa just reached 400k subs today.

Well considering how a lot of the gachikoi types are also Netto Uyoku, this seems par the course. If you thought the wignats are crazy, the Netto Uyoku are sometimes worse than them (but they rarely went as far as the wignat does irl)

I remember something similar happened I think with the ok boomer girl, people found out she had a boyfriend and she lost a lot of subs.

Coomers are always the same no matter the place and time.
Also, as a bit of information, sometimes a few of the Gachikoi knew that their idols are not that seiso. I forgot the name, but there was an uproar about one of AKB's branch involving a girl and some men sometimes ago. If you look at the scandal, you can see the Gachikois actually knew that you can get to the girl as long as you have the money and the righ connection, but they pretend they didn't know