Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

Calling CYBERFROG a "rehashed" character isn't criticism. PLASTIC MAN is a "rehashed" character, then. So is the SHAZAM Captain Marvel. Fuck it, so is WONDER WOMAN. So is AQUAMAN. So are Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. Characters that ceased publication, and then were picked up again for a new revamped series are traditional in comics. There was no aspect of ComicsGate that suggested that I needed to create something new, and CYBERFROG was never popular. There was no advantage to choosing to pick up his adventures again, it was simply the project I wanted to do the most.

I didn't say Cyberfrog itself was rehashed. What I said was:

Would you rather invest in someone who put out a few products that made quite a bit of money each time but was consistently late and rehashed his established IPs and gets away with it because he has name recognition, or would you invest in someone who didn't have name recognition but had thirteen products all fulfilled on time and has seen consistent growth with his KS campaigns and more people are giving him money to continue?

Bolded the relevant portion.

Your thirteen campiagns include:

Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney
Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney (this time a variant cover)
Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney "team up" cover variant
Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney "limited edition Line Art Variant"
"2nd Chance" Cypberfrog: Bloodhoney "Chromium"

That is what I mean by "rehashed".
 
To those who like Cyberfrog, could you elaborate on what you like best about the character and what makes you want to see more of him? The more specific you can get the better, pick a scene from the originals, BloodHoney or the Rekt Planet ashcan. Only one thing doesn't count: how well he's drawn.
I was basically unfamiliar with Cyberfrog until BloodHoney arrived. I read it and thought it was alright. It didn't stick in my head afterwards. When Unfrogettable Tales arrived, I took the opportunity to re-read BloodHoney with the additional knowledge I now had after reading the 2 old stories and things made a little more sense (that and Ethan talking about the story in livestreams). My interest in Cyberfrog increased after that because I had a bit more knowledge of the story. Going back to my first read of BloodHoney, I admittedly read through it without really taking the story in. I mostly read it to appreciate the art. With the next CF comics that arrive, I'll be paying more attention to the story.

As to what I specifically like about it is the art and the excitement that Ethan has about his character. Seeing your response to what others have said, trying to get more specifics, I'll just head that off right here. I can't give you anything more specific than that. I don't live for Cyberfrog, he's not my favorite comic book character, and I only want entertainment from Cyberfrog comics. I have been happy so far with them, and I'm glad to continue buying them at this point.
 
To those who like Cyberfrog, could you elaborate on what you like best about the character and what makes you want to see more of him? The more specific you can get the better, pick a scene from the originals, BloodHoney or the Rekt Planet ashcan. Only one thing doesn't count: how well he's drawn.

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A diatribe? Seemed like a calm and measured comparison to me. You are absolutely allergic to any and all criticism. You're throwing words around just to throw 'em.

You tend to be late, we all know it, but the trade off has usually been in the art quality and detail. With CG and the rehashed Cyberfrog, you have two additional drawbacks to your work: time spent on your YouTube channel which could be spent on the book, and the strength of the concept. Now I acknowledge that strength of concept is purely within the realm of personal opinion. I asked this question once and never got a response from the Kiwis here, but it's not a trick question I really would like to know:

To those who like Cyberfrog, could you elaborate on what you like best about the character and what makes you want to see more of him? The more specific you can get the better, pick a scene from the originals, BloodHoney or the Rekt Planet ashcan. Only one thing doesn't count: how well he's drawn. You can start us off, @NasserRabadi13 .
I find it endearing that this non-human character has much more grounded and relatable motivations than many of the human characters in other comics I've read. I enjoy his relationships with Salamandroid and Heather, specifically Cyberfrogs physical reactions to his brother. I like the fact that Cyberfrog's power level is scalable, in the sense that he Kjell Sinn can basically tune his abilities to match the threat level. Frog can even disconnect Cyberfrog from his mothership which essentially nerfs him down to a level where the Vyzpzz are a credible threat to him. Frog could also foreseeably go the other direction, giving Cyberfrog an "overclock" mode that unlocks all weapons permissions and scales him up to take on bigger enemies. It gives the character a lot of versatility from a storytelling perspective.
Is the most original character concept I've ever seen? No. Would I call myself a "devoted Cyberfrog fan"? Not particularly.
But I think he's a solid character with a lot of potential should Frog continue to work on improving his writing skills. I realize this may not be as specific as requested but I don't have my copy on hand to cite pages. I wrote this less to defend the concept and more because you proposed a fair question and it deserves an answer.
 
Just read STARBLADES. It's 61 pages of absolutely glorious artwork and story, and then a pin up gallery in the back.

It's complete. So that's my first worry taken care of.
What is the deal with Kyle? He always seems like a decent bloke, and his work is top notch, but there always seemed to be whispering campaigns against him inside CG, usually originating with WC. What did he do to earn the ire of the incel army?
 
No, I'm receptive to actual criticism, not endless gay mewling from anonymous retards about how Tim Lim or Doug TenNapel deserves it more for reasons.

Calling CYBERFROG a "rehashed" character isn't criticism. PLASTIC MAN is a "rehashed" character, then. So is the SHAZAM Captain Marvel. Fuck it, so is WONDER WOMAN. So is AQUAMAN. So are Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. Characters that ceased publication, and then were picked up again for a new revamped series are traditional in comics. There was no aspect of ComicsGate that suggested that I needed to create something new, and CYBERFROG was never popular. There was no advantage to choosing to pick up his adventures again, it was simply the project I wanted to do the most.

And I'm glad I did! $3.7 Million later, it seems obvious in hindsight! Thanks to everyone who supported ALL CAPS COMICS!

Here's my Cyberfrog Critical Theory.

"Rehashed" was my own personal touch, but the point remains. If Cyberfrog's current popularity has less to do with how he's written, or if he's even a B or C level comic book character than who draws him and how well he's drawn, and how many parallels can be made between the creation (CF) and the creator's (EVS') real life circumstances, then I think it's fair to say it's a direct reflection of your personality, or in this case the personality you only want the world to see with no weaknesses to speak of and surface elements that seemed toggled on without having much in the way of development or potential to be something truly unique.

It's almost as if you took a character that had little to no appeal for decades (arguably for good reason) and infused it with the power of the Comicsgate narrative. What was that power exactly? The CG narrative as it turns out is primarily about your persecution and your triumph. It's really all about you. Fair enough, write what you know! I wonder what kind of message you really wanted us to know about. Most people who follow you should be able to recall an often-repeated recollection of an incident from your teenage years where a girl gave you a frog figurine as a cover for cucking out her boyfriend over you. For some sociopathic reason, the fusion of forbidden sex with manipulative behavior in the symbol of the frog garnered personal significance for you. The power of having other people crushed just to have access to you seems to have left a lasting impression. It's a pattern you seem keen on replicating. You must think it's cool.

What is different from all those other characters you mentioned is partly what the industry was then, needing to sell the character based on what kids saw at first glance, and partly what it developed into over the years with multiple creative teams adding onto the lore and making them deeper than the paper they were printed on. Your character is a joke or a parody at first glance, and now thanks to this brave new world of indy publishing, it will likely never be passed on to anyone else who might have better ideas, or a clue on how to both establish and develop a character. I'm looking at those figures and I see a frog with metal clown shoes and a character that has no real hook... other than drawn by Ethan Van Sciver who used to draw really cool characters in a great way once upon a time.

I see a sentient alien spaceship decide to take two of the weakest and dumbest animals on earth and turn them into anthropomorphic super cyborgs for no apparent reason, with no particular purpose, and no consistent design cues. Why fully replace the frog's strongest attributes? Aside from the head and the feet, what remains of the actual frog? He doesn't even seem to use his tongue like one either. If his personality came from the animal, where are meditations of his own self before the transformation? If his personality is primarily from the alien technology, how is it the mothership is still a non-entity after what, 30 years in your storied career? If this isn't supposed to be a joke at someone else's expense, it doesn't stand on its own merits.

I think that your first instinct whenever you or your comics get criticized is to go straight to the money receipts and it proves that you are intellectually bankrupt. The hysterical exaggerations of the threat your facing also proves to me that you've put way too much of yourself into this thing and all the weird baggage you thought you could lose at the airport will circle right back to you. The CG shitshow is by far more interesting and compelling than anything you've committed to paper or ever will, and maybe one day you'll realize that what you've lost was worth a lot more than anything money could quantify.

TLDR: But back to my point, aside from Ethan's personal CG story and how much money Ethan's made, and how detailed and dynamic (if late and overpriced) he draws his panels, what is the inherent appeal of Cyberfrog?
 
I didn't say Cyberfrog itself was rehashed. What I said was:



Bolded the relevant portion.

Your thirteen campiagns include:

Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney
Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney (this time a variant cover)
Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney "team up" cover variant
Cyberfrog: Bloodhoney "limited edition Line Art Variant"
"2nd Chance" Cypberfrog: Bloodhoney "Chromium"

That is what I mean by "rehashed".
You said my "Established IPs" were "rehashed." The IP is CyberFrog.

I accept your excuse of being retarded.
 
I find it endearing that this non-human character has much more grounded and relatable motivations than many of the human characters in other comics I've read. I enjoy his relationships with Salamandroid and Heather, specifically Cyberfrogs physical reactions to his brother. I like the fact that Cyberfrog's power level is scalable, in the sense that he Kjell Sinn can basically tune his abilities to match the threat level. Frog can even disconnect Cyberfrog from his mothership which essentially nerfs him down to a level where the Vyzpzz are a credible threat to him. Frog could also foreseeably go the other direction, giving Cyberfrog an "overclock" mode that unlocks all weapons permissions and scales him up to take on bigger enemies. It gives the character a lot of versatility from a storytelling perspective.
Is the most original character concept I've ever seen? No. Would I call myself a "devoted Cyberfrog fan"? Not particularly.
But I think he's a solid character with a lot of potential should Frog continue to work on improving his writing skills. I realize this may not be as specific as requested but I don't have my copy on hand to cite pages. I wrote this less to defend the concept and more because you proposed a fair question and it deserves an answer.

Ok, thanks for the reply. He has the power (the alien metal parts) to match those he's fighting. Have we seen him hit his limits yet, have we seen him powered down? What is he fighting for and why is he friends with Heather Swain?

I was basically unfamiliar with Cyberfrog until BloodHoney arrived. I read it and thought it was alright. It didn't stick in my head afterwards. When Unfrogettable Tales arrived, I took the opportunity to re-read BloodHoney with the additional knowledge I now had after reading the 2 old stories and things made a little more sense (that and Ethan talking about the story in livestreams). My interest in Cyberfrog increased after that because I had a bit more knowledge of the story. Going back to my first read of BloodHoney, I admittedly read through it without really taking the story in. I mostly read it to appreciate the art. With the next CF comics that arrive, I'll be paying more attention to the story.

As to what I specifically like about it is the art and the excitement that Ethan has about his character. Seeing your response to what others have said, trying to get more specifics, I'll just head that off right here. I can't give you anything more specific than that. I don't live for Cyberfrog, he's not my favorite comic book character, and I only want entertainment from Cyberfrog comics. I have been happy so far with them, and I'm glad to continue buying them at this point.

General impressions help too. Even without him being your favorite character, there should be a sense of what he represents without going into much detail. When I think of what I've been told is Cyberfrog's origin it feels like we're starting with the creation of Vision by Ultron, without knowing anything about Ultron or his motivations good or bad. We are to assume Kjell is good because Cyberfrog is good, and Cyberfrog is good because he fights monsters and bad guys, and he hangs out with hot chicks but we also know he doesn't "save the day" because he conveniently sleeps through the alien invasion. What is normally the most relatable of superhero motivations, the love interest, isn't present here either. What is it about Heather and her daughter later on that isn't sexual but would make sense for an alien cybernetic frogman to align himself with? What's the hook there?
 
Aside from the art, I'm trying to distill the essence of the character's appeal. Any particular abilities that you really like or is it all about his personality?


Okay, but can you be more specific about what particular aspect of being a pond critter actually factors into his allure? Kermit the Frog is a pond critter too, but his function as a character was the straight man in a comedic routine, the funny vocalizations, the absurdity of his love life. He had weaknesses and vulnerabilities to play off of.

On that note we could talk about Cyberfrog's weaknesses. Is there anything his enemies exploit? Have you seen significant character development over time with him?
In all honesty I was less than impressed with Bloodhoney's story, it felt disjointed the way it was arranged into it's three chapter format. The artwork by Ethan was impeccable, the colors by Kyle Ritter were absolutely fantastic and the chromium covers were a beautiful design choice. As for the character of Cyberfrog himself I find the character interesting but feel like he was executed poorly during Bloodhoney. As an example I would've had much more of the story take place in the Vyzpzz (?) future and relegate Cyberfrogs backstory to the 1998 ashcan.

I must admit my motivations for backing most of these early Comicsgate books was purely financial/speculatory rather than wanting to read the comics. I felt like I was investing in a potential future franchise at the ground floor, across multiple projects, which one day one of which might go mainstream and have the value of the original books increase dramatically. I usually backed at the higher "head sketch" tier to further increase this value, since they add a personal touch and have lower backer numbers. Since I am about 20 years the junior of Ethan, Doug, Mitch etc and relatively fit, time is on my side while holding onto these books for a potential increase in value. No offense @FROG :lit:

Despite my reservations about Bloodhoney I still backed Rekt Planet, because Ethan is telling a four part story throughout this saga and I'll reserve my final judgment once the arc is complete. I have my own suspicions on why Bloodhoney felt strange to read, but for now I'll keep them to myself lest I be labelled a conspiracy theorist akin to The Comic Book Hut. I'm hoping Ethan learned to perfect his story telling for Rekt Planet and I have no doubt the second issue will be better than the first installment since we are now getting into the futuristic setting of the series.
What is the deal with Kyle? He always seems like a decent bloke, and his work is top notch, but there always seemed to be whispering campaigns against him inside CG, usually originating with WC. What did he do to earn the ire of the incel army?
They were on good terms during most of Comicsgate and Kyle felt comfortable enough to share Mandy's lewds with Ro. I'm guessing they are only attacking Kyle as a way to attack Ethan since Kyle is extremely involved with Ethan's business and intellectual properties.
 
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They were on good terms during most of Comicsgate and Kyle felt comfortable enough to share Mandy's lewds with Ro. I'm guessing they are only attacking Kyle as a way to attack Ethan since Kyle is extremely involved with Ethan's business and intellectual properties.
That would explain it, because I heard it from the Mandy-ist camp IIRC.

There was also that whole stream where Ro went off on Kyle wishing him dead or something too, but this was long before WC left CG. Not sure why that happened, although theories at the time where that Ro was delivering a 'mafia-style' message from @FROG to 'motivate' Mr Ritter. Not saying I believe it, just that them were the whispers.

Sometimes I miss the covert crazy talk of the various Twitter groups....then I remember I have something resembling a life.
 
I misread "Lim" as "Liam" and spent a good five minutes thinking you had gone insane.
I'm crazy, but not that fucking crazy.

Speaking of, I'm considering backing Shotgun Samurai because Ody did art for the cover. I want to show some actual support for the kid, but can't bring myself to buy Xenocrap.
 
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