What are some of the biggest examples of bad game design you’ve seen?

[Dumpster dived waifu]

I'm learning a lot about Dark Souls II, a game in the series I never tried. One of the gimmicks they pushed was the introduction of a torch.

Dark Souls I was actually dark. There are some areas where you genuinely can't see anything save for silhouettes of objects and monsters. But in Dark Souls II, it's bright enough you don't even need the torch they focused so much on in promotional interviews. So most people don't even bother with the torch, something which would've been helpful in the first game which ironically wasn't intended to have one, at least not throughout the entire playthrough.

But the kicker is, there's a boss fight in II where there's a ton of poisonous gas which just makes the boss annoying. Near the boss is a windmill. For some reason, you can use the torch to light the spoke of windmill on fire, and for another unknown reason, this clears the poisonous gas. There's no way to know this unless you decided to go up to the windmill with the torch and saw a prompt. And you also can't use logic to figure it out because the spoke is made of metal, so even if you believed you could set wood on fire with the torch, there's no way any person would think they could light a metal rod on fire.

Ahh, I see you're playing base Dark Souls 2 instead of Scooble of the Frooble Souple edition. In SOTF, there are areas where as soon as you step in they crank down the brightness to damn near 0 to force you to use those fucking torches. There's also the Shrine of Amana where for whatever fucking reason, it's easier to see where the pitfalls in the water are.

 

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

Isn't that just them letting "the writing is the best part of Fallen London/Sunless Skies" opinion get to their heads? If the writing is the best thing about their games, it's natural for them to think all everybody wants from them is text.

It's probably both tbh. It's hard to argue that the story isn't the main draw based on what it is as a franchise, but at the same time it's the packaging of the story and its art that bring those words to life. I'm not going to get invested in Post delivering rats and Mr. Eaten's name if you just text post it at me.

 

[UrbanSpaceMan]

They're SUPPOSED to be at least a little bullshit. IVAN is like concentrated triple-strength bullshit to the point where the creator said the game was supposed to be impossible to beat, and that's part of what makes it fun.

I get it, but finally getting a good item in dead cells and then dyeing to the next boss, just ruined the game for me. that's what happens to me in ever rogue-like I try. when I think about it, its not rogue-likes I hate, but randomly generate ones, its like cat shit with cheese

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Cosmic Star Heroine is an SNES style RPG that doesn't look like shit. The innovative idea it has was that enemies grow stronger the longer the fight lasts, which is a good idea in concept since it removes battles becoming attrittion matches. However what happens is that it railroads the player into playing only specific parties that are good in quick nuking (which isn't very hard to find given the limited number of turns) and not really experiment with all the characters.

 

[AmarettoPie]

Mystic Heroes for Gamecube. It's a beat'em up, army-ish game. Think Hyrule Warriors, except way more simple, and hilarious pop-in when too many enemies are on screen (which is, like, three groups. Groups that top out at about seven).

In multiplayer, your group of 1-4 fight through four (maybe five?) stages, starting wherever you want in the list, and it loops through the list infinitely until you lose.

The stages don't get any harder or anything; they're literally the exact same levels each time. But you start off piss-weak and have to find upgrades as you go through or you are NOT beating all the stages. You're also going to have a rough time if you start on any stage that isn't the first one, since they are always exactly the same regardless of where you begin.

Oh, and the stages are always balanced for four players no matter what. Also, the CPU is ASTRONOMICALLY retarded, so tough luck if you don't have three other humans around.

Also also, anyone can pause the game at any time. ...And then anyone AND EVERYONE can control the menu cursor as well as make selections. Oh, and the first selection on that menu is 'quit'. Fuck you for having the audacity to pause while someone was doing a combo. A combo that consists entirely of mashing A, like all the combos.

Also also also, there is no saving in multiplayer. There's nothing to build up over sessions; nothing to unlock. Each run starts at absolute zero. Every combo-induced quit returns you to square one.

Essentially, don't fucking play multiplayer.

 

[Antarctic Hellbeast]

Mote RNG mechanics in the Prophecy Dungeon in Destiny 2.

The basic mechanic is a light and a dark mote. you need to take 5 of one or the other to have "max motes" then you use a last wish taken mechanic and dunk them into the corresponding colored pool enough times to start either damage phase or unlocking the next area.

In theory, its idiot proof.

But BUNGO being bungo and TRANS AT BUNGIE, That supports BLM, decided to overlook basic game design 101 and add mote RNG instead of adaptive mote drops like "there is one light pool left", so nothing will drop but light motes.

It is still very common and possible to get nothing but dark motes for the one light mote pool required to progress the encounter for 30+ minutes straight until the player quits. Bungo has not fixed this among other larger issues, and has no intention to. Let alone fix any major bugs besides nerfing anything fun to use into irrelevancy. But damn will they let you know their stance on politics.

 

[Jeff Boomhauer]

The Cubix: Robots for Everyone game on the Gamecube's battle system. When your battle system revolves around a simplified roulette wheel, it's time to rethink what you're doing. Definitely one of those "wasted weekend rental" games.

 

[NerdShamer]

The Cubix: Robots for Everyone game on the Gamecube's battle system. When your battle system revolves around a simplified roulette wheel, it's time to rethink what you're doing. Definitely one of those "wasted weekend rental" games.

At least the rock-paper-scissors ones where kind of salvageable, but it's more of an exercise in how much time that you're willing to waste.

But this is the first that heard of one relying on a roulette wheel.

 

[PaleTay]

Most roguelike games with roster management have nothing to attach you to characters and a linear story. Darkest Dungeon is the easiest example of this to point out, there's no difference between characters and little creativity to the gameplay. The games would be much bigger if you just implemented a stat range for characters, and some sort of branching paths.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

In Genshin Impact there's artifact grinding. Now the idea is that artifacts are character equipment (total of five types) that raises character stats (one primary and other for smaller values), and having a specific set allows for broken as shit abilities. To get new artifacts you can go to specific stages that will give you two legendary level artifacts per run, and you can do four runs a day. Each stage also has two different sets of artifacts.
So if you want a specific piece you need to:
1. Get an artifact from the set you need (50% chance).
2. Get the artifact to the needed slot (20% chance).
3. Get the artifact with the desired effect (fuck you chance depending on the effect).
(Optional) 4. Get the artifact with good sub stats for the character (fuck you+++ chance).
It's basically a time sink that's needed because there's not a lot you can do in the endgame besides it.

The only good thing is that 2/5 of the artifacts have a locked main stat (so you only care for the substats) and that you only need 4/5 of the artifacts for the set effect (so you can fit whatever you want from different sets).

 

[Gamepad]

In Genshin Impact there's artifact grinding. Now the idea is that artifacts are character equipment (total of five types) that raises character stats (one primary and other for smaller values), and having a specific set allows for broken as shit abilities. To get new artifacts you can go to specific stages that will give you two legendary level artifacts per run, and you can do four runs a day. Each stage also has two different sets of artifacts.
So if you want a specific piece you need to:
1. Get an artifact from the set you need (50% chance).
2. Get the artifact to the needed slot (20% chance).
3. Get the artifact with the desired effect (fuck you chance depending on the effect).
(Optional) 4. Get the artifact with good sub stats for the character (fuck you+++ chance).
It's basically a time sink that's needed because there's not a lot you can do in the endgame besides it.

The only good thing is that 2/5 of the artifacts have a locked main stat (so you only care for the substats) and that you only need 4/5 of the artifacts for the set effect (so you can fit whatever you want from different sets).

They basically took a cue from Epic Seven's gear system, though the latter can use all fodder in general and resources dedicated to leveling gear.

The curse of "lol ill roll into the worst stats possible" is still there, though.

 

[ZMOT]

They basically took a cue from Epic Seven's gear system, though the latter can use all fodder in general and resources dedicated to leveling gear.

The curse of "lol ill roll into the worst stats possible" is still there, though.

worse, with the data gathered it looks like it's actually skewing towards those shit stats on purpose.

still, it just feels basic with room for improvement, it's not like division 2's item progression which was over-engineered and retarded from day one. division 1 didn't have the best system but they made it work towards the end, and being more linear brought actually people back (to be fair there was also enough incentive to grind for different sets instead of LOL ALL DPS + X WITH LAYERS OF RNG, BUY THE BOXES PLEASE!!!!1). none of that was in div2, which even went as far as copying that shitheap destiny 2 with "only one exotic weapon/armor". and then they are surprised people of course build around those OP pieces instead of mix&matching like before and don't wanna collect only trash all the time, worse they actually doubled down and put the best exotic weapon in their shitty raid. and I mean literally best, because on top of that most other weapon types where dogshit too.

I have yet to find anyone who actually likes that loot grind shit enough to the point he will spend months of not years of that 0.00001 chance ugprade. it's like they looked at the autists who never stopped playing diablo 2, and somehow think that's the same as the broad normalfag majority who buys their crap and spends money on their cosmetics.

 

[Slap47]

Shogun 2 is simply the Best Total War game. One reason is the polish and good mechanics but another reason is realm divide. When you conquer enough provinces and/or win heroic/decisive battles you get an event called realm divide that leads to all factions declaring war on you to prevent you from winning.

Realm divide is activated by collecting points that come from winning battles and conquering provinces and this is where the problem comes from. In the base game the meta is to sit back and develop a little bit just before realm divide. For the Fall of the Samurai expansion you simply need to sit back and develop an economy to afford fleets to defend your ports from naval bombardments and modern artillery to actually stand a chance. The activation of realm divide is based on a point system that punishes you for winning amazing victories and recapturing provinces. It's absolutely stupid.

 

[HeyYou]

Shogun 2 is simply the Best Total War game. One reason is the polish and good mechanics but another reason is realm divide. When you conquer enough provinces and/or win heroic/decisive battles you get an event called realm divide that leads to all factions declaring war on you to prevent you from winning.

Realm divide is activated by collecting points that come from winning battles and conquering provinces and this is where the problem comes from. In the base game the meta is to sit back and develop a little bit just before realm divide. For the Fall of the Samurai expansion you simply need to sit back and develop an economy to afford fleets to defend your ports from naval bombardments and modern artillery to actually stand a chance. The activation of realm divide is based on a point system that punishes you for winning amazing victories and recapturing provinces. It's absolutely stupid.

Rome 2 gets a lot of shit, but after all the patches its civil war mechanic was a much better version of realm divide. Just the fact that you can actually avoid it entirely by playing smart is a god send.

 

[Mnutu]

Most roguelike games with roster management have nothing to attach you to characters and a linear story. Darkest Dungeon is the easiest example of this to point out, there's no difference between characters and little creativity to the gameplay. The games would be much bigger if you just implemented a stat range for characters, and some sort of branching paths.

You mean kind of like Occidental Heroes?

 

[Tepes Thot]

Shrine of Amana in DS2. When DS2 has unfair elements it’s glaringly obvious, because for the most part, the games are punishing but fair.

That area was just an overkill of horrendous gameplay design. Beautiful, but only good for looking at. The boss was boring too.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Resident Evil 8 reminded me of a pretty common bad design - Upgradable weapons that are outclassed in every way by new weapons you'll pick up during the game.
The problem here is that there is no reason to use the upgrade system, since you're throwing money/resources away into something that might become worthless in the next five minutes.

 

[Pissmaster]

FF games are full of that shit. FF1 decided to hide a super boss as a random encounter on 1 screen of the game just to fuck with players. FF12 had a boss that takes literal hours to kill because fuck you.

The best armor in Final Fantasy IV is obtained in a small room with nothing interesting inside, where there's a 1/64 chance of running into a Flan Princess, which has a 1/64 chance of dropping a Pink Tail, which you then have to backtrack out of the dungeon and take it to a guy in a cave who will trade you an Adamant Armor for it.

It's one of those things where you won't ever know to do that without reading a guide, and by then, you don't really need the armor anyway, considering you're powerful enough to grind for a while in the final dungeon.

 

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

When you set aside an RPG and then go back to it later but there's no way to figure out that where or what you're doing or no way isn't incredibly time consuming and frustrating.

seriously though does anyone know a way to figure out where I'm going in SMT 4.

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

The best armor in Final Fantasy IV is obtained in a small room with nothing interesting inside, where there's a 1/64 chance of running into a Flan Princess, which has a 1/64 chance of dropping a Pink Tail, which you then have to backtrack out of the dungeon and take it to a guy in a cave who will trade you an Adamant Armor for it.

It's one of those things where you won't ever know to do that without reading a guide, and by then, you don't really need the armor anyway, considering you're powerful enough to grind for a while in the final dungeon.

You dare quote me with more FF shenanigans? Fine.

FF8 punishes you actively for using the summons mechanic by giving you less money. Sure, you can just grind a bit more and mitigate that, but the final boss is immune to summons, so if you dragged your ass through the game on the back of summons, you can't beat the game. Try again fuck face.

FF9 spreads cancer. Not only is there a secret ultimate weapon for Steiner if you blitz through the game (arrive in 12 hrs), but the PAL versions of the game made that nearly impossible because the game speed is 1.2x slower and the clock isn't.

FF10 has several missable items in locations that don't appear to be missable, 4 letters of the Al Bhed language manuals, and an item needed to unlock the Anima summon (which comes with backstory for the villain of the game).

FF10-2 makes getting 100% impossible. You can follow a strategy guide point for point, catching every single little thing, and the game will give you 99%. Why? Because part way through the game you need to choose a faction. There aren't any cutscenes that are exclusive to one or the other, but one cutscene in particular counts for 1% if you choose A and 1% if you choose B DESPITE BEING THE SAME CUTSCENE. Also, super bosses can hit you with status ailments even if you have gear to resist/immunize against said status ailments. You're prep is worthless.

FF13 decided to base your ranking for the sidequests on how fast you beat an enemy vs how many times you attacked. If you're too strong, you can't hit the ratio properly to get 5-stars. Not that it matters, just play as Vanille and spam Death. You get 5-stars for killing with Death.

FF13-2 decided to hide all of the super bosses behind a paywall. Fuck off.

FF13-3 locks you into the endgame once you decide to go for it. Before the endgame lockout, if you feel like you aren't tough enough, you can loop to NG+ and regrind the plot. But if you enter the endgame, you can't get the bad ending anymore and have to actually get the good ending. So far not so bad... except the final boss is leagues stronger than every other boss you faced. It's not uncommon for him to just curbstomp you, and you can't grind in the endgame to get stronger. Get fucked

FF15 has a fucking dungeon filled with cancer. You go all the way to the bottom, fight a miniboss, get loot and have to climb out. Problem; the miniboss can respawn. Why is that a bad thing? Well, technically his arena is a long vertical well you pass through multiple times as you descend/ascend, and you can't climb up ladders mid combat. Guess you're ass is going back down to kill him again.