- Joined
- Aug 31, 2019
Really makes you wonder how much of L4d 1 and 2 was more valve just being good at making games, and helping the dev team, and less turtle rock dev team.
Back 4 Blood - Left 4 Dead's spiritual successor
- Thread starter A Friendly Hoovy
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2016
Left 4 Dead is timeless because it isn't visually complicated or mechanically complicated; the skill comes in execution, timing, teamwork, and just raw gameplay mastery. It continues to be one of the most popular mutliplayer games out there because it's just so easy to play but so infinitely difficult to perfect. (Taking Versus into consideration)
Left 4 Dead doesn't have to worry about character builds, gameplay meta, buffs or nerfs, etc so the dev team had all the time in the world to focus on the parts that matter; Level design and controls.
Back 4 Blood misses the point because it's trying to copy modern gaming trends with stuff like stats and builds and RNG. It makes them focus on """""Balance"""""" rather than strong enemy or level design.
Like, how do you create a strong roster of enemies to conquer when you also have to account for thousands of different builds for potentially ever match? You can't, and that's why game devs don't. And those games are often worse for it.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2019
The AI has got to be the single most fucking retarded AI I have ever seen. Zero will to live combined with an inability to melee free a trapped player makes them worthless. Once they die, I don't even bother rescuing them from closets, it's not worth the time. Also, if a bot hops onto a minigun, they will never leave that minigun unless you walk forward. So, if you place a minigun at the end of 1-4 right where you find it, a bot will just sit there and do absolutely nothing.
The difficulty of the game feels all over the place. I went would typically breeze through maps with little trouble so long as my friend and I were paying attention for the elite infected, but the final act of the campaigns were just sudden ramps straight to ball crushing difficulty. The part in 1-4 where you have to blow up the boat took a couple of tries because the game would flood us with the big arm guy and he would drain our health.
The elite infected feel weird to fight.
The difficulty of the game feels all over the place. I went would typically breeze through maps with little trouble so long as my friend and I were paying attention for the elite infected, but the final act of the campaigns were just sudden ramps straight to ball crushing difficulty. The part in 1-4 where you have to blow up the boat took a couple of tries because the game would flood us with the big arm guy and he would drain our health.
The elite infected feel weird to fight.
- The charger knock-off is always either a cakewalk and dies instantly, or he manages to walk straight up to people and drain a large chunk of health.
- The boomer knock-off feels like it exists just to eat ammo. At a distance, he might vomit at you, or he might continue walking forward until he can bumrush you and blow up. It's also really annoying that all he does is acid damage instead of calling in a horde, he can safely be ignored most of the time.
- The wall-mounted witch exists purely as a jumpscare that will either cost a small amount of HP if you're playing with humans, or nearly all of your HP if you're playing with bots. They're not even that threatening, if you see them on a wall or play, they typically die to one bullet. I can't count how many times I've killed them by mistake shooting into a crowd.
- The tank knock-off is boring and barely threatening. I don't know if it's because of where he showed up, but we were able to easily widdle him down to leave and only take moderate damage. I know regular tanks can get the same treatment, but they could kill you easily if you weren't on your toes. There was some threat.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2021
They should've never made this game, if they were going for a soulless, raped, and abused version of a classic. lol
A lot of people spend hours upon hours playing L4D2 without customizing a damn thing, because it doesn't matter. The fun is in the gameplay and how random/weird it is. Playing this game sounds exhausting from the descriptions given
A lot of people spend hours upon hours playing L4D2 without customizing a damn thing, because it doesn't matter. The fun is in the gameplay and how random/weird it is. Playing this game sounds exhausting from the descriptions given
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2016
This shit right here is what I'm talking about. You can't get away with designing the Special Infected from Left 4 Dead if you create a game around builds and stats. Imagine the autistic rage from metagame fags when their OP rifle build means absolutely nothing when a Smoker gets a good grab off a death zone where he can't be saved? Simply by adding these kinds of options, Back 4 Blood is *INSTANTLY* invalidating it's premise because you simply can't design enemies that are as incapacitating as what Left 4 Dead offers. The two simply don't mix.
And what happened when they tried to compromise? You get the Elite Infected; they're a non-threat with really generic abilities because they have to be all-purpose obstacles that come across as woefully inefficient because the only attack that matters to a survive is the one that incapacitates them. Taking damage? Fucking, who cares? Common Infected deal damage, that's not special. What makes Special Infected *S P E C I A L* are the fact that they can completely take people out of a fight or create hazards that inhibit progress. That's something generic zombies can't offer.
It's almost embarrassing how little they understood about a game they took so much credit for, for fuck's sake.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2019
Here the thing about the sleepers(The wall ridden), they semi random. Certain places in maps they will always show up. Say on a truck or a certain shack. But where on that one place is the random part. Which is kind of a bummer they not truly random.
Also that tank knock off Seems super fucking random how much damage he takes.
On the final map with the howitzer and one spawns because of a corruption card. First time it takes us around a minute to even do half it's hp and send it in a hole. We all died shortly after.
next try he spawns and dies in 10 seconds. We all did the same thing as the first time.
I haven't played any L4D games, but I've played lots of Payday 2, so I'm just gonna give some of impression and preview of the game as a coop shooter instead.
Game is quite unpolished. Zero tutorial, which is bad for new players (especially idiots) who can't read UI or obj markers in game.
1) The shooting and meeleing part is kinda okayish.
You get a red indicator when you kill something, which is compensated for how zombies are kinda slow to fall of dead immediately. Like you kill a zombie, it takes a small bit of a second of it to actually fall down, so meleeing is a bit better feel for that. However, guns are definitely needed for special and mini-boss.
The mini-gun or turret in game felt horrible to use, bad sensitivity (Idk why it has different sens to usual gun) and doesn't feel impactful when killing stuffs.
Melee weapons at least feel different, the axe you swing vertically but guarantee 1 hit kill on normal zombies. While other melee weapons you need to at least aim for the head.
2) The first modern take of video games, no fricking server browsers, you have matchmaking instead. Worse, for some reasons, there was a time I got put to a server and I had 500ms+ ping. Or you get into a server where people failed mission then left, so you have to deal with stupid AI as everyone had already said. The only funny thing I've seen is joining a room late and you still 2 bots in game with the character you already picked, so total amount of "players" in a room is 6.
Also, because of matchmaking only, so you can't choose a specific mission with people doing it. You have to start your own game and pray for people to join.
Another problem when joining mid game, you don't get to choose your loadout/card (explain later below), you are stucked with whatever the bots have in their loadout. Have fun with no cards to improve you, no guns, no ammo, no medic bags, low health in horrible situation.
3) The second modern take of video games, games must have a progression goal, which is the card system of this game and also served as "replayability" or "roguelite wannabe".
It's 50-50 to me, I like it for variety of building characters, but at the same time, you are relied on other people to have a different build to maximized on harder difficulty. Which is also hoping people actually play/grind enough to have cards to build different decks.
But how do you unlock the cards? In game, in supply lines tab, the game gives you "paths" you need to work for. Each paths has specialization like better healing, more ammo for everyone, more stamina, etc...
You can click on each path to see what are the rewards, the bad thing in this progression you also get sprays which are useless imo when I only care about getting the cards. The rectangle shape rewards are cards, others are cosmetic sprays.
The red currency (supply) on top right near the party list is the currency you need to unlock each rewards in a row. You get it for each mission you completed (must be completed not fail), the longer the mission the more supply you get. I haven't managed to finish a mission higher difficulty, sad face no friends playing with randoms, so I don't know if you get more on higher diff, which I think it should be.
You get cards, then pick your preferred cards in a deck for your build.
However, in each run and each mission, you'll pick a randomized sets of card from your deck, so you probably won't be able to pick the first few mandatory cards you would like to get your build going. For example, I'd like to build a melee character focus character I need health on melee kills and may as well default quick melee using knife instead of fist, if I don't get those, then I have either praying RNG to let me loot a melee weapon in a mission or playing as Holly or Evangelo to have a default melee weapon. Holly at least to be a better choice for melee build since she regains stamina on melee kills. Stamina is used for sprinting and meleeing.
Fortunately depends where you join in an Act, for example Act 1 has 8 missions, you join later mission you'll get to pick more cards, easier to complete your build.
4) Specials enemies, there are only like 3 of them right now in game, although the game website hints more will come. The fatty gas exploding one doesn't feel dangerous enough, easy to shoot down. The small jumping one shooting web at people, it doesn't look different enough from normal zombies, you only see them easily when they are hanging on walls like Spiderman. The big one is slow but bullet spongy, better hope that you have a sniper/semi-auto rifles or guns with good recoil to shoot its weak point (head or shoulder) quickly.
5) The stuff below isn't much of impression more then preview of the game loadout system.
There is a progression currency between missions, you get them from completing each mission or looting random places. This currency allows you buying stuffs in safe house, whether it's upgrading your weapons, buying grenades/medic stuffs or team upgrades like more health/more charges for your medic bags/grenades. Only I feel like upgrading your weapon is usually the last choice, since other stuffs are better. Yeah weapons and upgrades are randomized too.
So I don't really think you actually to get the weapon you want to use immediately, but rather relying on random loot you have and work with it.
As you can see, there are different types of ammo now. Either better praying mission spawns enough ammo for your gun type or relying on your teammates to share ammo with you.
Can the game be fun? Probably yes as a coop shooter, there are team works to be required whether it's player skill or player's build/loadout. There are definitely some challenges in there on higher difficulties. But the game has many bugs, horrible AI and needs some quality of life changes (changing attachments between weapons, default melee should be knife instead of fist, etc..).
Then again, seeing TRS hasn't really got any outstanding achievements and current days video game development, it's
to see this game improved quick. About pricing and dlc stuffs, not surprising since the game is published by WB, definitely a wait after release.
Minor stuff: I don't understand the last mission of Act 1, apparently if you play as Walker (black military guy), you can load ammo in howitzer continously while other characters have to take turn to load the howitzer. Another thing I wish the game would explain properly.
Edit: I figured it out, you need to unload the around after firing it before loading the next round.
Game is quite unpolished. Zero tutorial, which is bad for new players (especially idiots) who can't read UI or obj markers in game.
1) The shooting and meeleing part is kinda okayish.
You get a red indicator when you kill something, which is compensated for how zombies are kinda slow to fall of dead immediately. Like you kill a zombie, it takes a small bit of a second of it to actually fall down, so meleeing is a bit better feel for that. However, guns are definitely needed for special and mini-boss.
The mini-gun or turret in game felt horrible to use, bad sensitivity (Idk why it has different sens to usual gun) and doesn't feel impactful when killing stuffs.
Melee weapons at least feel different, the axe you swing vertically but guarantee 1 hit kill on normal zombies. While other melee weapons you need to at least aim for the head.
2) The first modern take of video games, no fricking server browsers, you have matchmaking instead. Worse, for some reasons, there was a time I got put to a server and I had 500ms+ ping. Or you get into a server where people failed mission then left, so you have to deal with stupid AI as everyone had already said. The only funny thing I've seen is joining a room late and you still 2 bots in game with the character you already picked, so total amount of "players" in a room is 6.
Also, because of matchmaking only, so you can't choose a specific mission with people doing it. You have to start your own game and pray for people to join.
Another problem when joining mid game, you don't get to choose your loadout/card (explain later below), you are stucked with whatever the bots have in their loadout. Have fun with no cards to improve you, no guns, no ammo, no medic bags, low health in horrible situation.
3) The second modern take of video games, games must have a progression goal, which is the card system of this game and also served as "replayability" or "roguelite wannabe".
It's 50-50 to me, I like it for variety of building characters, but at the same time, you are relied on other people to have a different build to maximized on harder difficulty. Which is also hoping people actually play/grind enough to have cards to build different decks.
But how do you unlock the cards? In game, in supply lines tab, the game gives you "paths" you need to work for. Each paths has specialization like better healing, more ammo for everyone, more stamina, etc...
You can click on each path to see what are the rewards, the bad thing in this progression you also get sprays which are useless imo when I only care about getting the cards. The rectangle shape rewards are cards, others are cosmetic sprays.
The red currency (supply) on top right near the party list is the currency you need to unlock each rewards in a row. You get it for each mission you completed (must be completed not fail), the longer the mission the more supply you get. I haven't managed to finish a mission higher difficulty, sad face no friends playing with randoms, so I don't know if you get more on higher diff, which I think it should be.
You get cards, then pick your preferred cards in a deck for your build.
However, in each run and each mission, you'll pick a randomized sets of card from your deck, so you probably won't be able to pick the first few mandatory cards you would like to get your build going. For example, I'd like to build a melee character focus character I need health on melee kills and may as well default quick melee using knife instead of fist, if I don't get those, then I have either praying RNG to let me loot a melee weapon in a mission or playing as Holly or Evangelo to have a default melee weapon. Holly at least to be a better choice for melee build since she regains stamina on melee kills. Stamina is used for sprinting and meleeing.
Fortunately depends where you join in an Act, for example Act 1 has 8 missions, you join later mission you'll get to pick more cards, easier to complete your build.
4) Specials enemies, there are only like 3 of them right now in game, although the game website hints more will come. The fatty gas exploding one doesn't feel dangerous enough, easy to shoot down. The small jumping one shooting web at people, it doesn't look different enough from normal zombies, you only see them easily when they are hanging on walls like Spiderman. The big one is slow but bullet spongy, better hope that you have a sniper/semi-auto rifles or guns with good recoil to shoot its weak point (head or shoulder) quickly.
5) The stuff below isn't much of impression more then preview of the game loadout system.
There is a progression currency between missions, you get them from completing each mission or looting random places. This currency allows you buying stuffs in safe house, whether it's upgrading your weapons, buying grenades/medic stuffs or team upgrades like more health/more charges for your medic bags/grenades. Only I feel like upgrading your weapon is usually the last choice, since other stuffs are better. Yeah weapons and upgrades are randomized too.
So I don't really think you actually to get the weapon you want to use immediately, but rather relying on random loot you have and work with it.
As you can see, there are different types of ammo now. Either better praying mission spawns enough ammo for your gun type or relying on your teammates to share ammo with you.
Can the game be fun? Probably yes as a coop shooter, there are team works to be required whether it's player skill or player's build/loadout. There are definitely some challenges in there on higher difficulties. But the game has many bugs, horrible AI and needs some quality of life changes (changing attachments between weapons, default melee should be knife instead of fist, etc..).
Then again, seeing TRS hasn't really got any outstanding achievements and current days video game development, it's
to see this game improved quick. About pricing and dlc stuffs, not surprising since the game is published by WB, definitely a wait after release.Minor stuff: I don't understand the last mission of Act 1, apparently if you play as Walker (black military guy), you can load ammo in howitzer continously while other characters have to take turn to load the howitzer. Another thing I wish the game would explain properly.
Edit: I figured it out, you need to unload the around after firing it before loading the next round.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2021
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
What was up with L4D 1 and 2 that made them the timeless classics that they are while Back 4 Blood is starting to look generic and dated...?
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
I can attest that the survivor AI is brain dead. I got stuck in one of those zombie traps and the AI couldn't break me out. The bot survivors just surrounded me and the zombies just killed them. The reload animations will make any gun nerd cringe themselves into a singularity though that's a minor nitpick on my end. This game is average if not below average at the moment. It can be fun with friends but otherwise it's not the best nor the worst, so if you're expecting a L4D successor prepare to be extremely disappointed.
Also I decided to join a match while writing the initial post to get more info and I found this gem.
(EDIT: Found another bug. See anything off? Also, a lot of the players are fucking brain dead.)
Also I decided to join a match while writing the initial post to get more info and I found this gem.
(EDIT: Found another bug. See anything off? Also, a lot of the players are fucking brain dead.)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
...and let's not forget about the several battle passes that will add more weapons, cards and characters with their own special talent. There's no way that the game will remain balanced.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2019
Don't forget then sneak in a new money only currency and add in over powered cards only buyable with it. Because there is no limit devs like this would stop at.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
released when that kind of coop-game was still new, AI director was innovative, simple enough you could pick it up easily to get results that made you feel good, source based so it ran on toasters.
gunplay of 2 is still worse than 1 tho.
first I wanted to say they haven't learned anything from evolve, but then remembered they're using unreal engine for this one and networking on UE is absolute ass, so I can't really blame them.
still they chose UE in the first place so it's still their fault.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2015
After watching some beta gameplay I knew this game wasn't going anywhere. L4D successor my ass, it's a boomer-designed MTX farm.
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2020
Community mods are by far the largest reason anybody still plays a 12 year old game. Given that Back 4 Blood isn't allowing that, I give it two years tops.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2019
It'd need a solid amount of support from WB in the form of new maps coming out frequently. But considering WBs track record, they'll support for a year before their next mtx cow comes out.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2019
So the same games as a service bullshit that sank Evolve is probably going to sink this, why didn't the devs learn their lesson?
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
That may have been the initial hook but there is just something that keeps people coming back. There is nothing new about its gameplay, its just the fact that it has this sense of unpredictability/fun that just moves you forward. Also the level design in L4D 1/2 is really REALLY good. The personalities are simple but WHAT they do with it stick, which is why they even made a comic about such "simplistic" characters. Also, I think L4D also had this weird sense of realism to it, maybe its because L4D came out off the heels of 28 Days/Weeks Later and the Dawn of the Dead remake where fast zombos were suddenly very trendy (and looked far more realistic/dangerous than the slow decaying types).
There also could there be this Source Engine charm to it that most engines lack. The gameplay cycle of L4D is just a borderline masterpiece for me. It was lightening in a bottle
I THINK that this is mostly thanks to the gaming landscape being shaped and controlled by executives who barely know anything about gaming and are VERY slow to catch up. So in their little bubble, they must think that Evolve didnt fail because of the service bullshit or think it was just a "bad example" and that if they keep trying it will work...just look at EA trying to make the next "Destiny Killer" (when I think Destiny was never good, ever, even when they got away from Activision)
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2020
It's pretty depressing to see a game trying so hard to be a successor only for the whole customization/card system to be it's main focus for those sweet mtx.
Atleast there are still the classics which are games instead of a shop with barely a game attached to it.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2015
The lame cartoony sci-fi art design is also what gets me about this game. It's so generic compared to L4D. Like mobile game shit.
Basically every individual component of B4B is cribbed wholesale from some other AAA shitfest. The gunplay, the colour-coded RPG/itemisation mechanics, the card system, the characters and dialogue - everything. They even somehow managed to make Versus mode into a fucking battle royale.