Plymouth shooting: Multiple fatalities in Keyham

Dude, I don't care about your enlightened understanding of how one needs to fix their problems. As some people aptly keep stating, this website isn't for therapy.
However, if there's something about I agree with feminists and SJWs of all colours is that men, just like women require emotional support structures and proper help when they're in need before they eat a gun or make someone else eat a gun.

Again, this Darwinian talk interspersed with your complexes (and not just yours, you're not alone in this posturing) just betrays how much unacquainted you are with mental problems and how you are terrified of acknowledging that they're a thing.
Don't talk shit. I'm well aware of mental health factors on people, how to spot changes in personality, hygeine levels and other tells that show that somebody is either having a bad day or sliding down hard.

I'm not terrified of acknowleding them, I'm sick of hearing about mental health from faggots who don't know how to sort their own shit out. Every fucking day i hear about some wine mom with depression or some young kid suffering from stress. 90% of all whiny, drively, snot-nose pampered little pricks that moan about "ergh im soo [insert made up mental issue]" comes from them being molly-coddled faggots who need to turn off the internet and go socialise, go learn what real mental health issues are.

Because we aren't talking about those who genuinely need help, from abuse, from addiction, from trauma. THOSE people need real help. But some faggot pussy arsed little dick heads on reddit and mumsnet whining and complaining about 'mental health' shit need help in one form; having the fucking taste slapped out of their mouths.
lmao the military is comprised of nothing but incels lol
Modern day maybe. When i heard you could wear a beard in the RAF, don't need to march and can't be shouted at, i shuddered.
 
Because we aren't talking about those who genuinely need help, from abuse, from addiction, from trauma. THOSE people need real help. But some faggot pussy arsed little dick heads on reddit and mumsnet whining and complaining about 'mental health' shit need help in one form; having the fucking taste slapped out of their mouths.
Stop, you're embarrassing yourself. Many of those "faggot pussy arsed little dickheads" had broken families, abuse and trauma. You really have no idea what it's like to be in an actual dark place when the people you reach out to for help just slap your hand out and tell you to suck it up. Kinda like you do. The difference is is that you're a rando busybody, trying to shield yourself from the cold, hard reality, while people you're close with kinda saw you sliding down but did absolutely fucking nothing for years on end.

What's with you faggots and this inherent "bootstraps" shit you all espouse? I'd like to see you pull yourself by your bootstraps in his shoes. Single mom, zero love, zero meaningful relationships. Bootstraps, right.
 
Stop, you're embarrassing yourself. Many of those "faggot pussy arsed little dickheads" had broken families, abuse and trauma. You really have no idea what it's like to be in an actual dark place when the people you reach out to for help just slap your hand out and tell you to suck it up. Kinda like you do. The difference is is that you're a rando busybody, trying to shield yourself from the cold, hard reality, while people you're close with kinda saw you sliding down but did absolutely fucking nothing for years on end.

What's with you faggots and this inherent "bootstraps" shit you all espouse? I'd like to see you pull yourself by your bootstraps in his shoes. Single mom, zero love, zero meaningful relationships. Bootstraps, right.
His post was fine. Why are you making it personal? You're embarrassing yourself, not him.
 
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Stop, you're embarrassing yourself. Many of those "faggot pussy arsed little dickheads" had broken families, abuse and trauma. You really have no idea what it's like to be in an actual dark place when the people you reach out to for help just slap your hand out and tell you to suck it up. Kinda like you do. The difference is is that you're a rando busybody, trying to shield yourself from the cold, hard reality, while people you're close with kinda saw you sliding down but did absolutely fucking nothing for years on end.

What's with you faggots and this inherent "bootstraps" shit you all espouse? I'd like to see you pull yourself by your bootstraps in his shoes. Single mom, zero love, zero meaningful relationships. Bootstraps, right.
lol...unless you know him personally...and I suspect you don't, this post reeks of cope.
 
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His post was fine. Why are you making it personal? You're embarrassing yourself, not him.
I'm presenting a disagreement, as I have an inherent distaste of the opinion he presents.

I do think that he's talking from a pedestrian viewpoint about this and that's fine, as long as he acknowledges his pedestrian-ness.

It is a personal subject though, so yeah, it colours my response.
 
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I'm presenting a disagreement, as I have an inherent distaste of the opinion he presents.

I do think that he's talking from a pedestrian viewpoint about this and that's fine, as long as he acknowledges his pedestrian-ness.

It is a personal subject though, so yeah, it colours my response.
Gotcha
 
Stop, you're embarrassing yourself. Many of those "faggot pussy arsed little dickheads" had broken families, abuse and trauma.
Broken families, abuse and trauma, as stated above, are genuine issues that need a good social group to solve or get over. No argument there and that isn't the people i'm talking about
You really have no idea what it's like to be in an actual dark place when the people you reach out to for help just slap your hand out and tell you to suck it up.
Sure Jan.
Kinda like you do. The difference is is that you're a rando busybody, trying to shield yourself from the cold, hard reality, while people you're close with kinda saw you sliding down but did absolutely fucking nothing for years on end.
Jesus, i hope you don't use this pseudo psychological guess work IRL. But i suppose this highlights a difference in perspective; You expect others to help you, I expect only the individual to help the individual.
What's with you faggots and this inherent "bootstraps" shit you all espouse? I'd like to see you pull yourself by your bootstraps in his shoes. Single mom, zero love, zero meaningful relationships. Bootstraps, right.

Simple. Accept life for what it is, use your strengths as your foundation and your weaknesses as your greatest honour, to improve upon, but not to shy away from. Is it uncomfortable talking to a girl? It is for everyone, that's life. You're not special for finding it difficult to talk to strangers, you're just a pussy for not doing it anyway.

It hurts to run 10 miles. It aches to do 100 press-ups. Metallica still shit their pants before they go on stage. That's life. Be a man, deal with it in silence and sort your own shit out (Unless, like i said previously, physical brain damage or severe trauma means you need help) but on topic, this guy didn't need help, he had to dig himself out of shit, a trial everyone faces at some point.

I see the biggest differences between generations are those who have always had the internet, and those who started to use it after most of their growth and socialising was solidified IRL. Talking to people on the internet isn't socialising. If I could have one wish, it would be for kids and under 30's to see the damage the internet does if you're not aware of it. Because this place is brutal to the noggin if you don't realise the psychological tricks people, websites and companies use.
 
Broken families, abuse and trauma, as stated above, are genuine issues that need a good social group to solve or get over. No argument there and that isn't the people i'm talking about
Which people are you talking about then? Because while yeah, social media tends to aggregate poseurs who seek to distinguish themselves through unconventional means (like, self-diagnosing themselves), it's really hard to distinguish who's who unless you know someone personally.

Sure Jan.
You can sass all you want. People who have actually endured any sort of emotional trauma and overcame it, on average, do not tend to talk about "pulling yourself by your bootstraps", because they usually had something or someone who pulled them out of the mire of self-pity and self-hatred and even with their help it wasn't easy at all. Sorta like soldiers don't like to talk about their deployments a lot unless they're drunk as fuck.

Jesus, i hope you don't use this pseudo psychological guess work IRL. But i suppose this highlights a difference in perspective; You expect others to help you, I expect only the individual to help the individual.
No, I don't expect anyone to help me. I do correlate this "rugged individualism in mental health" shit with people who never actually struggled with anything. There are exceptions, sure but those exceptions don't make the rule. It's funny how you blamed me for "pseudo-psychological guesswork" and then proceeded to do the very same thing.


Simple. Accept life for what it is, use your strengths as your foundation and your weaknesses as your greatest honour, to improve upon, but not to shy away from. Is it uncomfortable talking to a girl? It is for everyone, that's life. You're not special for finding it difficult to talk to strangers, you're just a pussy for not doing it anyway.

It hurts to run 10 miles. It aches to do 100 press-ups. Metallica still shit their pants before they go on stage. That's life. Be a man, deal with it in silence and sort your own shit out (Unless, like i said previously, physical brain damage or severe trauma means you need help) but on topic, this guy didn't need help, he had to dig himself out of shit, a trial everyone faces at some point.

I see the biggest differences between generations are those who have always had the internet, and those who started to use it after most of their growth and socialising was solidified IRL. Talking to people on the internet isn't socialising. If I could have one wish, it would be for kids and under 30's to see the damage the internet does if you're not aware of it. Because this place is brutal to the noggin if you don't realise the psychological tricks people, websites and companies use.
Jesus, what a bunch of self-aggrandizing bullshit. No better than self-defeating screeds incels write, I gotta tell you.

If you'd visit council housing in the 80s, you'd see the same shit and you'd hear the same shit you do now. Single mothers, youth are spending time aimlessly and people killing each other over nothing. You just have the Internet superhighway at your fingertips and that lets you virtue signal "hurr durr kids these days".

Kids these days are the same as kids in the days before. Same problems, different packaging.
 
It's not a reasoning thing, morals need to be reinforced and with time they can easily be worn down. Plenty of 'normal people' participated in the genocides of millions.
This may be true on a societal level, but on an individual level, I would argue this doesn't really apply. Genocides happen when a society has been collectively beguiled by the notion that a certain section of society is less than human, and history shows us that it generally takes a lot of willpower on the part of an individual to be able to take a stand and resist such beguilement. Depressingly, most people lack this willpower and will simply go along with it.

It is for this reason that I specifically mentioned social pressure as a factor, since it generally takes a lot of social pressure to get someone to go against their human instincts for compassion and empathy. What makes individuals who commit acts like this so unusual is that they appear to mostly lack these instincts: they weren't pressured by their society to go out and commit atrocity; they do it because they are simply deranged.
 
Im trying my best not to sound like a moral fag is it that hard for these loser pollute thames or a local mortuary with a shotgun mouthwash?

These faggots are eternal victims and absolutely pathetic.

Of course if you look like a wild hog, act like one and smell like one to boot. Your only options to get laid are animals as suggested by r/incels
 
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Lmfao imagine wanting to spend time with a woman. Relationships sound great when you're single but then you get in one get forced to talk to em every night have to put up with their bullshit dramas and deal with their dogshit bitch friends just makes you want to fuckin kill yourself more than being single ever could.
 
I Slowly start to believe all incels are autistic.

Who have overdosed on the blue pill (remaining in contented ignorance)

They have no realistic view of the world

there was some dude in Canada that wanted an incel uprising
by killing all the chads.

This guy is no incel just a shooter. As that I kindly understand of
the insane world of the incels you must murder women to be called

a 100% real incel.
 
Which people are you talking about then? Because while yeah, social media tends to aggregate poseurs who seek to distinguish themselves through unconventional means (like, self-diagnosing themselves), it's really hard to distinguish who's who unless you know someone personally.
The posers are doing more damage to mental health - by cheapening it and clogging up the system with day to day bullshit. The posers need outting and slapping, not given councilling and pills. It is hard to distinguish who's who, but i'm not saying trawl through reddit to help/out people. Just be very aware that misery loves company and some people will keep you down so they feel better. There are lots and lots of those people about
You can sass all you want. People who have actually endured any sort of emotional trauma and overcame it, on average, do not tend to talk about "pulling yourself by your bootstraps", because they usually had something or someone who pulled them out of the mire of self-pity and self-hatred and even with their help it wasn't easy at all. Sorta like soldiers don't like to talk about their deployments a lot unless they're drunk as fuck.
You're right and this is a personal issue of mine. While many people mean well, and some praise councilling as a way out of the ditch, the vast, vast majority of people need tough love. It's called tough love, because it's tough. Some people believe taking the nicely nicely approach to posers and some people in the abyss, is the way forward. The problem with that is that some people don't want to help you or get better. They come across as nice and friendly when in reality they're miserable, dangerous pieces of shit.

But the guy who's screaming at you to sort your fucking shit out? At worst he's pissed off hearing someone moan about it and wants you to stop, at best, he wants you to get back to your best. Personally, i don't trust the nicely nicely approach to mental health because it's too easy to get cosey. If you're having a shit time and somebody is nice and approachable, you unconsciously want to spend more time with that person, in that place, which makes it harder to dig yourself out of shit. But that fucking prick nob head who you hate? We want to get better to shove a big fucking middle-finger in this face and...holy shit, problems gone, feel strong and powerful, let's go wreck some slags pussy

No, I don't expect anyone to help me. I do correlate this "rugged individualism in mental health" shit with people who never actually struggled with anything. There are exceptions, sure but those exceptions don't make the rule.
Agreed.
Jesus, what a bunch of self-aggrandizing bullshit. No better than self-defeating screeds incels write, I gotta tell you.
It didn't mean to come off like that.
If you'd visit council housing in the 80s, you'd see the same shit and you'd hear the same shit you do now. Single mothers, youth are spending time aimlessly and people killing each other over nothing. You just have the Internet superhighway at your fingertips and that lets you virtue signal "hurr durr kids these days".
While that attitude exists, to say it's the same just with the internet is very disingenuous. For a start, a council estate has 100~ people in it, from the same council estate. The internet has 4 billion, from all over the world. Comparing yourself or measuring yourself by any metric to anyone on the internet, is fucking mental.

Kids these days are the same as kids in the days before. Same problems, different packaging.
Same problems at a base level, yeah. New problems added on top like the internet.

Quick example: How many 13 year olds used to read a paper? How many 18 year olds used to watch the news? How many 21 year olds, pre-internet (or hell, pre 2016) used to talk about politics? Now all of those groups have access, wanted or not, and an interest, genuine or not in all of those subjects.

Should an 18 year old be concerned with the international global politics and goings-on of the head of a state of a foreign country? Fuck no. Information over-load kills our brains because it ends up packed with useless crap that doesn't benefit us, at all. Trump sent mean tweets leads to massive arguments both on the internet and IRL (because of the internet), yet none of that helps us IRL.

I appreciate everyone has a different experience and approach to mental health and neither of us are right or wrong, it's just personal preference.

Anyway, i think we've sperged out enough in this thread so i'm westing. Peace out.
 
Sure Jan.
You can sass all you want.
It should be highlighted, that with his reddit history he was in fact trying to pull himself up on his own and even recognised that the online screen time was making him worse.

Add on which should be clear now a toxic relationship with his mother as that's who he blasted point blank first and lockdowns keeping him in that environment which I think was hostile (no shit it ended with a murder). It climaxed with him snapping.
 
Like I said before the borking of the farms, I still think incels can vary from psycopaths like this guy to just socially awkward. Lumping them together as a single hivemind is something woke do to me. That said, this incident can cause incels to double down on "the blackpill" ("siege mentality"), and repel "normies" from "the blackpill" even more (incels want "the blackpill" to spread). Meanwhile, governments can take advantage of this situation to remove (even more) freedom.

tl;dr: it's a bad idea to "go ER"
 
A lot of people are missing why incels do this stuff, why they can't get a GF, etc.

If you look at a lot of their posts, especially this guy's, they tend to coalesce around nihilism. They believe their lives are meaningless, that they have no purpose unless they have a GF. Most of them are atheists, those who aren't have a highly exteriorized and moralistic form of religion that indicates only superficial belief and pure conformism. This causes them a lot of angst that they tend to exteriorize in lieu of sitting down and contemplating existence and purpose.

These guys hyperfocus on external problems rather than making an honest effort to build inner strength, willpower, and social skill, maybe this compounds a little bit with narcissistic superficiality. They earnestly believe women rebuff them because they're ugly, short, overweight, or dorky, so they start "maxxing" things as if real life is an RPG and women are NPCs with some kind of LOOKS check. They'll start "liftmaxxing," "looksmaxxing," and so on. They'll try to look like Chad, they'll buy designer -- equip the highest level gear -- but it always just amounts to making a more perfect turd, since the problem is what's on the inside.

Davison betrays his nihilistic illness himself: "There's nothing really to look forward to as an adult, other than getting rich." "I'm not advocating this, but if I have to I might even try and use drugs to make up for it, maybe cocaine fuelled sex or something, maybe that can make up for that missed teenage experience."

Failing to have any kind of transcendent, interior meaning really fucks a guy up. I remember having a nihilist phase until my mid 20's, and it really puts you in a bad spot internally. It causes all sorts of awful emotions to start welling up, and can turn into contempt and anger for the world. This existential angst is the same thing that caused the goth scene in the 90's. In impulsive and hateful people, like Davison, it becomes outright violence. There are a lot of people like this in the world where "God is dead." The absurdists pre-empted incidents like this, whilst also prefiguring existentialism. There were absurdist mass-killings.

The logic goes as follows: If there is no ultimate and objective meaning to life, then what sense is there in prolonging life, which is only a temporary episode fraught with suffering and comical agitation? A man is as good dead as he is alive, since the grave is his inevitable destiny. Hence, there's an intimate link between nihilism and mass violence. Life is meaningless without permanence, and permanence cannot be found in the cycle of life. If life is meaningless, then so too are other peoples' lives, as it were.

The solution to the incel problem is to beat nihilism. How that's possible is a matter of individual suitability. Religion can work, but it must be genuine rather than externalized. One needs a serious belief in God and must receive grace. The permanence of heaven can destroy any nihilistic embrace of the temporal. But, a lot of incel types are autistic and or hyperintellectual, hence why they get into right-wing political ideologies. I don't think that's because they're attempting to fill the void with politics, they're just inquisitive and divergent thinkers in some cases. Other cases might be explained by Luciferic "nazi villain" psychology, or a kind of psychopathic contrarianism. But in any case, they would have need of something intellective or esoteric. Theology, metaphysics, or an integral occult tradition could be a legitimate source of meaning for them. Buddhism, provided they can understand it properly as an ascetic tradition rather than a devotional religion, would be perfect. One of the aryan truths, Dukkha, which is that the world is suffering due to one's attachment to impermanence, diagnoses the issue. Perhaps even certain kinds of modern philosophy, like Husserl's phenomenology, could help them find some sort of transcendent meaning.

All told, the incel problem has little to do with "mental health" in most cases, but rather, spiritual health. These people are suffering from nihilism and it's causing hateful angst to well up from within, just like it did in the 90's goths and the absurdists so long ago. Finding meaning after the "death of God" is definitely hard, but it's the only way out for them. SSRIs, "maxxing," "a good ol' beating," joining the military, none of that will work, it will just cause them to further resent the world and externalize their inner angst. Incels don't need a beating, they need a book.
You made an interesting point there! While it's definitely possible to have a meaningful life without religion or some transcendental belief, on the other hand, a lack of any moral belief can turn out badly for unwell people like Davidson here.

Reminds me of a case with Carl Jung (say what you will, he's more in-tuned with psychology than his mentor Sigmund Freud) who was somewhat of a pantheist. He once had a patient who was suffering alcoholism were all other attempts to get off if it failed, so Jung recommended that he should take up spirituality. The patient eventually joined an evangelical group and overcame his alcoholism. The patient was none other than founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, Richard Hazard III.
 
It is for this reason that I specifically mentioned social pressure as a factor, since it generally takes a lot of social pressure to get someone to go against their human instincts for compassion and empathy. What makes individuals who commit acts like this so unusual is that they appear to mostly lack these instincts: they weren't pressured by their society to go out and commit atrocity; they do it because they are simply deranged.
this is nonsense. 'compassion and empathy' as inhibiting factors are themselves the result of strong, organized social pressure. to overcome them and become violent you don't need to be socially pressured into violent thinking, all that is necessary is to remove yourself from the social pressures that constantly reinforce your pacifism, and over time they will lose their grip on your thought process and decision making.

that's how these loner/incel shooters 'radicalize' - to normal people the idea of killing is repulsive for two reasons: first because their own moral compass (which is shaped and influenced by social pressure in the first place) makes them feel that it is inherently wrong, and second because they fear the personal and social consequences of becoming a murderer (prison or death)

now how do these factors relate to incels like this guy? first, being cast out and disconnected from society for years means they are also disconnected from the social pressures that keep normal people in line, so they lose the feeling of wrongness normies are conditioned to associate with the idea of becoming violent. and second, when they reach the point where they don't see any future for themselves and have no reason to live, that means they also stop giving a fuck about negative consequences of going postal. when both of these developments have progressed far enough, the incels metamorphosis from a harmless basement dweller to a homicidal maniac is complete.

You made an interesting point there! While it's definitely possible to have a meaningful life without religion or some transcendental belief, on the other hand, a lack of any moral belief can turn out badly for unwell people like Davidson here.
i think it's not the lack of religion/spirituality itself that hurts these people but the lack of community and social structures which religion used to provide to the people.
 
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