JoJo's Bizarre Adventure - Part 9 Jojolands currently ongoing

Who's your favorite JoJo?

  • Jonathan

    Votes: 30 6.5%
  • Joseph

    Votes: 182 39.6%
  • Jotaro

    Votes: 38 8.3%
  • Josuke

    Votes: 64 13.9%
  • Giorno

    Votes: 33 7.2%
  • Jolyne

    Votes: 29 6.3%
  • Johnny

    Votes: 66 14.3%
  • Gappy

    Votes: 18 3.9%

  • Total voters
    460
Surely if I devote myself to him and do every dumb thing he says he'll love me. Maybe he doesn't talk to me at any other time except when he wants me to risk my life so he can achieve some goal he forgets about 15 chapters from now. but SURELY if I get molested and/or nearly killed for him enough times, then he won't go for the big titty teenager who tried to steal all his memories so he'd fuck her right? Right?!

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Surely if I devote myself to him and do every dumb thing he says he'll love me. Maybe he doesn't talk to me at any other time except when he wants me to risk my life so he can achieve some goal he forgets about 15 chapters from now. but SURELY if I get molested and/or nearly killed for him enough times, then he won't go for the big titty teenager who tried to steal all his memories so he'd fuck her right? Right?!

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Methinks that he's just trying to comfort her in a brotherly way because they went through alot, losing Jobin and maybe Kaato and shit. I mean, I havent read much of Jojolion but im going to guess that we spent most of part 8 with Yasuho. Let Josuke spend time with his new family, aight?

Speaking of family:
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Do you think that Araki might revisit George's 3 children in Jojolands? A group of Joestars with different clashing backgrounds reuniting to heal Holly is a pretty interesting idea.
 
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Speaking of family:
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Do you think that Araki might revisit George's 3 children in Jojolands? A group of Joestars with different clashing backgrounds reuniting to heal Holly is a pretty interesting idea.
That's a good catch, I didnt notice that George and Lisa Lisa had 4 kids in this new universe.

I guess he could do that, they would all be 70-80 years old, but ppl like Caato and Holly are in their 50s and look like 25 anyways, so it shouldn't really matter
 
Surely if I devote myself to him and do every dumb thing he says he'll love me. Maybe he doesn't talk to me at any other time except when he wants me to risk my life so he can achieve some goal he forgets about 15 chapters from now. but SURELY if I get molested and/or nearly killed for him enough times, then he won't go for the big titty teenager who tried to steal all his memories so he'd fuck her right? Right?!

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I mean it's clear that gappy loves her as family as based on what I know from Jojolion, gappy just became part of the family and I doubt he'd be into any weird incest shit. Then again shippers are known for being autistic.
 
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I'm going to admit that I am one of them, even though I am going to rag on it here. I have nowhere else to turn to bitch about this so I am going to bitch here since my other option is starting a YouTube channel to rant in my room.

Let me preface this, I am not being ironic with saying I am a Jojolion fan. There is a ton of stuff I loved about Part 8 but unlike Star Wars fans, I won't pretend it is perfect just because I like it. Bear with me here, if you have read my autismo before you know I can get deep with it, so I predict at least half of this post will be hidden for spoiler sake, even though I am pretty sure everyone here is up to date with the manga. This is way less of a review and more petty ramblings from someone with little to complain about. I am not going to sit on my fat arse pretending I am a better writer than Araki because at the ned of the day he is one of the best to ever do it and I am the cunt talking about his work.

Admittedly is easier to explain what is great about Jojolion rather than what is a little bit extra. Gappy (at least until the Wonder of U arc) is a very solid protagonist that despite being a literal blank slate develops his own persona. Yasuho, much in the same vibe as his original universe counterpart, exceeds her role as deuteragonist and becomes a true protagonist. The Higashikatas are probably the most human characters Araki has ever written. The two characters that round our Rokakagang have stakes on the story and leave you wanting more.

The setting and tone are superb. When people said Jojolion was "Jojo through Ito's lense" they weren't joking, even Ito's signature move "the turning page" is integrated and there are certain elements that are as close as it gets to Part 4 fused with Ito's one-shots.

And yet, here we are. We knew what we were getting into and still feeling somewhat empty-handed.

We can winch and complain about the Wall Eyes, the bite marks or [Flashback Man] but that stuff you can get it anywhere. I want to bitch about other stuff. Let's start with unrealised potential which in the universe of Jojolion has so many names and faces it makes me mad.

Let's start with the obvious: Kei Nijimura. God fucking damn it, this one hurt on so many levels. Kei goes from being one of the first meaningful allies of Gappy to disappear for half of the story even in scenarios where it would make sense for her to be involved. She is Gappy's sister, one of the few links between Yoshikage Kira, Josefumi Kujo and Josuke Higashikata and Gappy barely pays mind to her. So why is Kei working for the Higashikatas? To uncover info and help her family. My first suspicion was that Kei found her bro's body and seeing the mark in his hand concluded the Higashikatas was behind it all and hence decided to infiltrate. Then comes the moment when Norisuke is revealed to be an ally to Gappy and wanting to help not only his own family but the Joestar side of the family tree. Kei never gets involved in this. We can only assume off-screen the two talked and Kei has spent all this time at the hospital taking care of Holly (which is the retroactive explanation to an extent). Either Norisuke knows Kei's identity and is cooperating or Gappy decided to be an amnesic cunt and make things more difficult for everyone. Then comes the triumphal return of Kei in the story and even though her actions are instrumental in defeating Tooru, she is just a couple of panels on-screen. And yeah she is dead, go figure. Holly might also be dead as well, yay.

The other side of the coin would be Haato. The Vitamin C arc, that's all we get. We know her stand's name and I'm not sure we even got to properly know what it did. Do you know what would have been a nice change of pace? A Higashikata other than Norisuke doing something for someone outside their family. Just imagine Haato tagging along with Gappy just to rub it on Joshuu's face. We could get a character arc for a pampered model that represents everything Kei dislikes about the Higashikatas. They are a reflection of one another. Just imagine a Rokakagang that is, before Mamezuku joins and besides the main Jojo, entirely female and with drastically different stands. What could have happened with Haato if she did anything? What if she, as the eldest daughter and influenced by her friends, decides to make a stand against Joubin? She is the only one amongst the Higashikatas that could press a challenge to Speed King based on match-ups alone. Either she or Mitsuba, with whom is more of the same story difference being that Mitsuba's reason for staying loyal to Joubin is addressed in the story while Haato cowers in the corner doing nothing. Instead, it seems that Araki wanted us to believe Joshuu could be the ally of Gappy.

Fucking Joshuu. God almighty, I fucking hate this guy. Yes, I know he has reasons to act like a twat but he is such a horny idiot it becomes unbearable to me to have him survive. I will never forget how his only contribution to the story was the equivalent exchange with Yasuho. He tried to be a hero for fucking once, he acted creepy while doing it and he regrets it right afterward. He wasn't in a single battle, he didn't help anyone, it was just him hating Gappy and lusting after Yasuho with not one moment of character growth. And yes, none of the Higashikatas change over the story but at least none of them gets plastered in the art of Jojolion as if they were a meaningful ally to Gappy. Only Norisuke does shit and thank God for that.

Now let me sperg about the rock humans. Fuck, they are such a perfect antithesis of humanity I still get chills and even nightmares just thinking about the possibility of their existence. However, there's a problem in my opinion. Tamaki's gang seems to be the peak of character they have because until Tooru shows up (maybe with the exception of Wu Tomoki) they just don't do it for me. Is like in Vento Aureo, once Team Buccerati beats La Squadra everything until the Requiem arc feels like filler to me because none of the minor villains come close. Maybe that's why we got Golden Heart, Golden Ring, to add a bit more personal stakes. The Blue Hawaii arc is easily the worst offender by taking one of Josuke's best moments before the final battle and taking everything good about it. Everything about that arc feels like it occurs in a vacuum. The Hospital staff have far more dangerous stands than anyone else yet they barely track. The Wonder of U is broken as fuck but I honestly don't feel like I know shit about Tooru. You can say that was Araki's intention but at points, it feels like he was inserted as the final villain as the most obvious twist since Lady in the Water. Hell, by how Tooru is set up in the story of several characters he might be the closest thing to DIO in this universe. Do you know what's cool? All the lore Araki built around the rock humans. Do you know what's not cool? That it feels at times that Jojolion was undermined to set them up for Jojo Lands and God knows how it is going to be applied in the anime. Imagine Gappy at some point finds this intel and realises he can just throw mangoes at Tooru or set them up in the Rokakaka lab (what I expected to be the case when Wonder of U mentioned sensing a trap).

I remember when the fucking plane door was falling and thinking Yasuho would play a Hail Mary by trying to approach Tooru so they both would die. How stupid I was, I don't think the door ever mattered at all other than to give urgency to everything else. I remember thinking that Tooru was a fuckboy from the get-go and how he tried to get back to Yasuho, I was expecting her to play him. How stupid I was. But hey, we got the spin back, that's cool.

Now I can talk about Gappy during the Wonder of U arc. I really liked how Holly put herself in the line to warn him, I liked how he applied everything he knew so he could play the calamities on Wonder of U. I liked how Gappy's demeanor overall changed to fit the situation, he became almost feral and wanting his friends out of a situation he knew was going to claim lives. And then the arc started to take shape and I knew this was going to be like that meme of Jojo being like a pretend battle in the playground in which kids invent power-ups. I know Tooru also has fans but I don't give a fuck at this point. At this point, Gappy knows only two things: he is the equivalent exchange and someone is going to die, tragically it didn't go down the way anyone anticipated. It was crushing, bittersweet, and almost hopeless. We now happen to know there is probably someone with a stand even more broken than Wonder of U and we might see it in a decade or so.

Surely if I devote myself to him and do every dumb thing he says he'll love me. Maybe he doesn't talk to me at any other time except when he wants me to risk my life so he can achieve some goal he forgets about 15 chapters from now. but SURELY if I get molested and/or nearly killed for him enough times, then he won't go for the big titty teenager who tried to steal all his memories so he'd fuck her right? Right?!

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Y'know, I feel very stupid that I didn't notice it the first time I read it. I really hope it doesn't end that way but Daiya definitely had more luck getting to know Gappy than Yasuho. Imagine setting a couple for ten years and then you play the Rina card again. Yasuho IS the JoBro, got cucked badly and survived by getting Joshuu to top her. Can this poor woman catch a break? She had to see his steel balls and it seems Morioh-Cho isn't exactly populated by good bachelors.

Also, Daiya's design in the California King Bed arc was way better than the redesign. She looks like shit and has the Araki face tenfold.

Araki's biggest mistake was not naming the final chapter this:


This seals the deal for me that Gappy is into big tiddied autistic girls.
 
Let's start with the obvious: Kei Nijimura. God fucking damn it, this one hurt on so many levels. Kei goes from being one of the first meaningful allies of Gappy to disappear for half of the story even in scenarios where it would make sense for her to be involved.
The Kujo-Kira family in general got it pretty rough in Part 8. Nijimura should've been one of the JoBros instead of getting relegated to slightly above Karera levels of screentime. I do enjoy Holly's final appareance, but her stuff is completely unresolved and she gets nothing in the end. Still in a coma/dead and maybe Gappy will do something about it in Part 9. Bitch was Josuke's main reason to keep going after his identity mystery was solved and that's all folks, huhmazing.

Not only that, remember during Paper Moon King when Yasuho looks into Yagiyama's room and sees Kira's clothes hanging at the wall? What the fuck was that? Did Kira live at the Higashikata place for a while? Did no one notice him?

Fucking Joshuu. God almighty, I fucking hate this guy. Yes, I know he has reasons to act like a twat but he is such a horny idiot it becomes unbearable to me to have him survive. I will never forget how his only contribution to the story was the equivalent exchange with Yasuho. He tried to be a hero for fucking once, he acted creepy while doing it and he regrets it right afterward. He wasn't in a single battle, he didn't help anyone, it was just him hating Gappy and lusting after Yasuho with not one moment of character growth. And yes, none of the Higashikatas change over the story but at least none of them gets plastered in the art of Jojolion as if they were a meaningful ally to Gappy. Only Norisuke does shit and thank God for that.
His participation in the Wonder of U arc has got to be one of the worst moments of it. It's such a tone clash it makes me wonder what the fuck Araki was thinking.

Jojolion has a lot of horny in it, and there's nothing wrong with that, but did Araki really need to have Joshuu being a horny creep to Yasuho in the last fucking battle? Everyone is dying left and right to WoU and the nigga is cooming over a bitch while he loses an arm.

Now let me sperg about the rock humans. Fuck, they are such a perfect antithesis of humanity I still get chills and even nightmares just thinking about the possibility of their existence. However, there's a problem in my opinion. Tamaki's gang seems to be the peak of character they have because until Tooru shows up (maybe with the exception of Wu Tomoki) they just don't do it for me. Is like in Vento Aureo, once Team Buccerati beats La Squadra everything until the Requiem arc feels like filler to me because none of the minor villains come close. Maybe that's why we got Golden Heart, Golden Ring, to add a bit more personal stakes. The Blue Hawaii arc is easily the worst offender by taking one of Josuke's best moments before the final battle and taking everything good about it. Everything about that arc feels like it occurs in a vacuum. The Hospital staff have far more dangerous stands than anyone else yet they barely track. The Wonder of U is broken as fuck but I honestly don't feel like I know shit about Tooru. You can say that was Araki's intention but at points, it feels like he was inserted as the final villain as the most obvious twist since Lady in the Water. Hell, by how Tooru is set up in the story of several characters he might be the closest thing to DIO in this universe. Do you know what's cool? All the lore Araki built around the rock humans. Do you know what's not cool? That it feels at times that Jojolion was undermined to set them up for Jojo Lands and God knows how it is going to be applied in the anime. Imagine Gappy at some point finds this intel and realises he can just throw mangoes at Tooru or set them up in the Rokakaka lab (what I expected to be the case when Wonder of U mentioned sensing a trap).
I guess the Rock Humans are cool, but they really didn't do much to me neither. They got all of this lore and peculiarities about them and they use it to sell plants and be rich? All these niggas want is money, you compare it to any other JoJo villain motivation and it's really lackluster.

Sure there's also an element of personal connection, them being incapable of relating properly to humans and having families, but all of this is explored so briefly it's barely there. You get Dolomite's flashback, you get Aisho's flashback and you get the bare minimum of it with Tooru, that's it.

Tooru himself, as shallow as his motivation is, would be way more tolerable if his actual design was the Head Doctor, and not some weirdo fuckboi with teddy bears in his sleeves and a helmet hairdoo. Hes got a cool power, hes got some cool scenes, and that's about it really. The fact that his final battle is the longest and most incosistent quality wise doesnt help his case.

Overall, good write up. I'd also consider myself a "Jojollion fan", there was a lot to love in it, but also a lot of wasted potential and straight up unsatisfying conclusions. Now that it's over I see a lot of it's faults being excused as "setup for Part 9", but if you need to write 4800+ pages just for setup then you gotta revise your strategy.
 
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The Kujo-Kira family in general got it pretty rough in Part 8. Nijimura should've been one of the JoBros instead of getting relegated to slightly above Karera levels of screentime. I do enjoy Holly's final appareance, but her stuff is completely unresolved and she gets nothing in the end. Still in a coma/dead and maybe Gappy will do something about it in Part 9. Bitch was Josuke's main reason to keep going after his identity mystery was solved and that's all folks, huhmazing.

Not only that, remember during Paper Moon King when Yasuho looks into Yagiyama's room and sees Kira's clothes hanging at the wall? What the fuck was that? Did Kira live at the Higashikata place for a while? Did no one notice him?
You have to be the Head Doctor because you just expressed my ramblings way better than I did and this paragraph alone touches stop that I forgot to address. Kudos my kiwi.

Karera, that right there is such a waste of a character. At this point, I am not sure if I forgot but the famous photo of the three hanging out is never explained. Karera is supposed to be THE CONNECTION and the one flashback with her it seems Kira doesn't know her and she only knows the basics about the Rokakaka. I know that Yukako didn't play a big role in DiU outside of her subplot (of all the stand users at least she has an excuse to not engage Killer Queen directly) but Karera just disappears.

Kira's clothes in the bunker. I do wonder if the plan was that this made Kei suspect the Higashikatas even more. It does seem the plan was that the Higashikatas were the main suspect from the get-go and you could only rule out Norisuke because of him coming straight to Gappy. There's no way in which I could try to explain away this but it got me thinking that the plan was that Joubin was pulling strings from the start and had followed Kira around to mess with him and silently trying to make him disappear bit by bit. Maybe Flashback Man was supposed to be Joubin in disguise while with Tamaki? The laundry mystery would be a better reason to keep Kei around once she discovers half of her brother is chilling in the same household she cleans. Is interesting how early JJL centers around the Higashikata state and as the part progresses it shifts into the Hospital, you get the feeling Araki planted all the clues there and then decided planting the Rokakaka branch in the state, realising it would be routine for rock humans to come and chill.

It feels as if the first third of JJL is the one that knows what it wants to be the most.

Also, probably the only one but I hate this faggot's smug face while at the same time I find him cute.
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It feels as if the first third of JJL is the one that knows what it wants to be the most.
1000% this. I am going to go out on a limb and just say it, the reason part 8 fell the fuck apart is due to the monthly release schedule.

It gave too much time for Araki to overcomplicate his narrative and forget key setups. He works best when he is under that weekly release schedule and there is not an excessive amount of time between each chapter for him to forget shit/overcomplicate things.
 
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1000% this. I am going to go out on a limb and just say it, the reason part 8 fell the fuck apart is due to the monthly release schedule.

It gave too much time for Araki to overcomplicate his narrative and forget key setups. He works best when he is under that weekly release schedule and there is not an excessive amount of time between each chapter for him to forget shit/overcomplicate things.
I don't know if I agree with that or not. I think it's a mix of that and the fact that its a mystery plot.

The majority of SBR was done monthly and that didn't seem to hurt the plot at all. I mean, you can still say Araki Forgot and complain about some stuff from it, but Part 7 is widely considered to be the best one for a reason. The straightforward nature of the story (it being framed within a race and all) helped out a lot in the long run.

Part 8 went from "I gotta find out who I am" to "The stone guys that killed me are selling magic plants and we want some of that", with a lot of the setups apparently being lost/changed during the transition. Even tho they had lackluster motives, I liked the Rokakaka gang as villains (Damo probably being the best one, a shame he got killed halfway through), I liked the Stand battles and I enjoyed the twists and character developments. It can be argued that the story achieved what it set out to do, it being framed from chapter 1 that it was a story about breaking a curse, but ending a 10 year story with a two chapter flashback that added a bunch of new questions and really didn't explain much wasn't a good move.

Some people were not convinced Part 8 was truly going to end until Chap109 came out confirming it, Hamon Beat thought it was still going to continue on for maybe a year after Tooru's defeat because of how many plot threads still needed explanation. I don't think that ever happened before in any other part.

I'm hoping that Part 9 returns to the sort of SBR setup, having a clearer goal from the start with definitive milestones being achieved throughalt the story. Maybe something like "We gotta travel to South Japan/New Guinea to find Rokakakas and save Holly", some shit like that, I dunno.
 
The Rock Humans fucking sucked. Damo was the only one who really had a cool stand and a cool fight (though I kinda did like Doctor Wu’s stand being more used in the hospital for its utility).

Like, Part 7 had some weird fuckin stands, like the guy whose stand is literally just battleships and the guy who can make deadly metal balloon animals, but weird as they were their fights were pretty cool. Like so many things in Jojolion, the idea of the Rock Humans is really cool but their execution falls completely flat. Literally the fodder villains from Stardust Crusaders are more memorable than most of the rock human cast, since most of them straight up just didn’t have a personality.

While nowhere near as much of a clusterfuck, Jojolion’s ending reminds me of GoT where there’s clearly still a shit ton of material that needs to be covered but Araki probably realized at this point there’s no way he could tie everything back together and decided to just end it before things got even more complicated, which leads to the last couple chapters feeling like a speedrun through a bunch of checkboxes ticking off all the things you need to technically have a complete story, including restating themes that were not particularly well-presented throughout the story. Like, the message at the end is that Josuke doesn’t need to worry about his past because he’s found a new family, but he’s really barely interacted with anyone outside of Joshu and Norisuke. The whole “breaking a generational curse” thing also falls flat for me because I guess I was expecting a bit more than just “Kaato uses the macguffin fruit on Tsurugi”.

The reason Jojolion ended up the way it did is because Araki went in writing a kind of story that’s completely different from everything that came before it, with these high-concept themes and ideas in mind, and had no idea how the fuck to effectively execute them. I’m trying to think back on the other Jojo parts and like, they really don’t HAVE any clearly identifiable themes where you can say “oh, this part is about X” when it’s all said and done. Part 4 is the only one that comes kinda close, where you could say it’s about the residents of a town uniting to take down a monster that’s been preying on them, but the other parts really don’t have anything in that department at all. This kind of story demands a fairly strict plan going into it, where you at least plot out the general thrust of the plot and how different major players will interact with it. But Araki wrote it like every other Jojo part, in that he didn’t seem to have a plan beyond the next couple of arcs. And while this works perfectly fine for a story whose main goal is to reach the bad guy and beat him up, it completely fails when you’re trying to write a mystery.
 
I'm hoping that Part 9 returns to the sort of SBR setup, having a clearer goal from the start with definitive milestones being achieved throughalt the story. Maybe something like "We gotta travel to South Japan/New Guinea to find Rokakakas and save Holly", some shit like that, I dunno.
I really don't understand why you are saying part 9 will follow up Part 8. I mean obviously it will be the same universe, but you make it sound like its going to start right after part 8. Something Araki has never done. He always leaves a generous time-skip, universe jump, or major location change.

I have seen no hint of it following Part 8 closely in his announcement of Jojolands, unless you have a source I don't have.
And while this works perfectly fine for a story whose main goal is to reach the bad guy and beat him up, it completely fails when you’re trying to write a mystery.
I just really felt nothing for the main bad guy. The rock people were such nothing villain's and the final boss just comes out of nowhere for no real particular reason that it was hard to care about anything going on.

This is why I think Araki made him an ex-lover to one of the protagonists, so we might give the tiniest shit about them. The problem is that its obvious and super forced without any real build up. Say what you will about the previous parts, but the one thing Araki nails is build up for his final bosses. But here...there really isn't any I can think of. It all just ends like a wet fart.

He didn't plan for this bad guy because he didn't know about him when writing this mystery plot back in the beginning ten years ago. So he wasn't something he was thinking about while writing future parts Jojo style. Ironically, he fucked up the build up he usually nails by writing in a genre that requires him to plan a build up.
 
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I really don't understand why you are saying part 9 will follow up Part 8. I mean obviously it will be the same universe, but you make it sound like its going to start right after part 8. Something Araki has never done. He always leaves a generous time-skip, universe jump, or major location change.

I have seen no hint of it following Part 8 closely in his announcement of Jojolands, unless you have a source I don't have.
It's all speculation regarding the Jojolands title and all the lore established in Part 8, mainly the rock humans, the wall eyes, the bite marks and the Rokakaka, all of which we know stuff about, but not exactly where they came from and why.

I don't think it's going to be a direct sequel neither, i'm just saying that maybe some of the plot threads and characters will spill over into this next part, it wouldnt be the first time it happened, with Jotaro showing up in every single part after 3 and stuff like the Stand Arrows only being fully explained many parts later. Hell, it wouldn't be the first time it happened in this new universe either, Norisuke Higashikata I was a very minor character in SBR and the Wall Eyes are likely some other manifestation of the Devil's Palm, amongst other things. No one expected the Spin to make a return either.

We could very well see a new JoJo with Gappy and other ppl from 8 showing up as a secondary characters, or it could be set in the 40s with new universe Joseph dealing with the nazis again, or it could be something completely new, there's no real way to know until we get more info on it, but I'm willing to bet its going to be a "sequel" in some way, kinda like how Parts 1-3 are a "trilogy" of sorts.

While nowhere near as much of a clusterfuck, Jojolion’s ending reminds me of GoT where there’s clearly still a shit ton of material that needs to be covered but Araki probably realized at this point there’s no way he could tie everything back together and decided to just end it before things got even more complicated, which leads to the last couple chapters feeling like a speedrun through a bunch of checkboxes ticking off all the things you need to technically have a complete story, including restating themes that were not particularly well-presented throughout the story. Like, the message at the end is that Josuke doesn’t need to worry about his past because he’s found a new family, but he’s really barely interacted with anyone outside of Joshu and Norisuke. The whole “breaking a generational curse” thing also falls flat for me because I guess I was expecting a bit more than just “Kaato uses the macguffin fruit on Tsurugi”.
Well I guess if u squeeze it out you can find a "theme" for the other parts too, some being generic shounen bullshit "Justice must battle evil" like Part I and others being more allegorical, like Part V where you have Giorno, the son of God (Dio), battling the Devil (Diavolo). He even has the power to create life and shit.

But yeah, no other part was as themes heavy as Part 8. It gets pretty on the nose with Yasuho straight up explaining what a "Jojolion" means.
 
^ I feel like it’s a completely different type of buildup, though. While this is obviously 100% speculation, I would argue it’s very likely Araki never intended to HAVE a final villain at all. The story 100% felt like it was going in the direction of the final conflict being the clashing ideological differences within the Higashikata family between Jobin&Kaato and Norisuke in how to save the family and break the curse. In this context, it would be fitting for the Head Doctor to just be a mid-game final boss who is defeated to obtain the New Rokakaka, only to launch the REAL main conflict of the part between Norisuke and Jobin/Kaato as they fight over how to use it. And obviously, with a conflict between family where ultimately they have the same goal (just different ideas of how to approach it) it would create interesting dynamics where problems can’t just be solved by beating up your opponent, because at the end of the day they don’t want to hurt each other.

Except clearly some things went awry and it was too late to change course so instead he turned a minor side character who had little relevance up til that point into the main villain and retroactively showed him influencing past events to give the shallow veneer of importance.
 
I actually really like Tooru as an anti-Josuke. But he should have been the Doppio to the Head Doctor's Diavalo. I think they should have been separate characters with their own stands too, remember how he had Crazy Train AND Wonder of You on his phone? That could have been some neat foreshadowing, since we already had an insanely powerful defense train stand when they fought main antagonist.

He never felt like a final villain either. All the best lines from Tooru come out of his stand, which is constantly shifting between the head doctor disguise and the stand face so you don't really register it as Tooru even if you're consciously aware. It lessens his presence as a villain and a character. Tooru's big speeches from his own mouth were always navel gazing bullshit which doesn't help things.

The things I liked from him as a person were his actions, like presenting himself as a romantic rival to demoralize Josuke and possibly get Yasuho and her bullshit stand on his side again. Or that part where he's jamming out to his stand's namesake while she nearly dies. God damn that was great lmao. But he shows up so late I can't care about him and he isn't built up like Diavalo who also doesn't show up till late, it's like I spent the whole arc waiting for the real main antagonist to show up and he never does. Araki tried to tie him into everyone's lives at the last second but he still didn't feel connected enough to the story. He just shows up and after a long slog of no forward progression whatsoever they beat him with SOFTOANDOWETTO GO BEYONDO. At least Gold Experience Requiem was bizarre, and hard earned through perseverance and trickery. This just sorta shows up out of the blue as far as Josuke is concerned and... it's just another bubble.

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Seeing him get fucked up by it was cool though. Another thing about Tooru, Araki completely retconned rock human biology lore for the sake of justifying Tooru grasping out at the memory of a wasp. I liked that scene alright but was it really worth it? I liked the old lore of how they grow and age and now reading this as a single work it's yet another glaring inconsistency. Jojo always had those but this one racks up so many you can't overlook it, especially when we had a whole chapter late in the series hammering down the message of "don't overlook anything".

Now Joshu was a complete waste of a character after how much promise he showed in Shakedown Road and Milagro Man, but I definitely lol'd when he started babbling about what position they should take before the rokakaka kicked in. I also liked that moment he had telling Josuke to pick the cake, but that felt like the climax to a arc between them that never actually happened. I don't mind him staying a piece of shit, I like that about him, but I wanted SOMETHING. Besides Jobin his siblings are in a similar situation.

But yeah, no other part was as themes heavy as Part 8. It gets pretty on the nose with Yasuho straight up explaining what a "Jojolion" means.
I love the /a/ version of that scene

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Now imagine Great Days kicking in on panel 2.
 
^ I feel like it’s a completely different type of buildup, though. While this is obviously 100% speculation, I would argue it’s very likely Araki never intended to HAVE a final villain at all. The story 100% felt like it was going in the direction of the final conflict being the clashing ideological differences within the Higashikata family between Jobin&Kaato and Norisuke in how to save the family and break the curse. In this context, it would be fitting for the Head Doctor to just be a mid-game final boss who is defeated to obtain the New Rokakaka, only to launch the REAL main conflict of the part between Norisuke and Jobin/Kaato as they fight over how to use it. And obviously, with a conflict between family where ultimately they have the same goal (just different ideas of how to approach it) it would create interesting dynamics where problems can’t just be solved by beating up your opponent, because at the end of the day they don’t want to hurt each other.

Except clearly some things went awry and it was too late to change course so instead he turned a minor side character who had little relevance up til that point into the main villain and retroactively showed him influencing past events to give the shallow veneer of importance.
While I don't believe Araki pulled Tooru out of his ass like you're suggesting, I agree that it feels like the Higashikata conflict was going to be a way bigger deal than it was.

It got pretty intense with Jobin "killing" his own dad and basically hijacking the entire family, that felt like a point of no return for him. I thought Caato was going to show up then and sort of act as a further catalyst of things, but then Tooru showed up and it became the Wonder of U bonanza.

They sure built Caato up a lot just for her to show up late to everything and save the day.
 
I just question whether Tooru and the Head Doctor were originally intended to be separate characters. Theres so much about WoU that makes no sense and seemingly only exists to enable the HD to be Tooru’s stand. Like, why can it mimic the HD’s appearance? Why is it one of the few stands that can actually be seen by normal humans and appears to have a real physical form? These aspects would just work much better if the HD remained his own character whose stand just causes the calamities.

Fix-fic concepts below, aka what if Tooru was the Part 8 Kars?

Maybe one way to go about it is to introduce some conflict BETWEEN the rock humans, where they themselves have different ideas on what to do with the fruit, with the boomer Head Doctor content to just make money while his protege the young upstart Tooru is more bent on flipping the scales on humanity and establishing rock humans as the dominant race. The New Rokakaka itself would be positioned as sort of like the Redstone-empowered stone mask of Part 8 that would allow the rock humans to exceed the limitations of their biology and ascend as ultimate life forms, and with Josuke dispatching the Head Doctor, Tooru now with nobody telling him what he can’t do actually establishes himself as the final villain in a way that makes his lack of development make sense, because he literally WOULD just be some background nobody who was suddenly enabled to enact his plan. Hell we can even have the HD crawling back to the hospital after a near-mortal defeat, expecting Tooru to come to his aid, only to have Tooru be the one to finish him off and take his place on top of the Rock Human heirarchy. Then, you have a pretty straightforward plot where Tooru crashes the Higashikata family dispute, Ultimate Being’s himself with the New Rokakaka, and ultimately loses to his hubris against a newly re-united Hikashikata family, with the curse-breaking tying somehow into his defeat. Maybe it’s similar to how it happens in the manga, and Kaato uses whats left of the New Rokakaka sap to initiate a final exchange between a defeated Ultimate Lifeform Tooru and Tsurugi, fueling the cure by sapping Tooru’s newly attained god powers. For some bonus Part 2 and Part 4 callbacks, we can even have this final exchange turn Tooru into a living statue, made immortal by the powers of the New Rokakaka, who ends up as a lawn decoration or something hilariously dark like that.
 
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Maybe one way to go about it is to introduce some conflict BETWEEN the rock humans, where they themselves have different ideas on what to do with the fruit, with the boomer Head Doctor content to just make money while his protege the young upstart Tooru is more bent on flipping the scales on humanity and establishing rock humans as the dominant race. The New Rokakaka itself would be positioned as sort of like the Redstone-empowered stone mask of Part 8 that would allow the rock humans to exceed the limitations of their biology and ascend as ultimate life forms, and with Josuke dispatching the Head Doctor, Tooru now with nobody telling him what he can’t do actually establishes himself as the final villain in a way that makes his lack of development make sense, because he literally WOULD just be some background nobody who was suddenly enabled to enact his plan. Hell we can even have the HD crawling back to the hospital after a near-mortal defeat, expecting Tooru to come to his aid, only to have Tooru be the one to finish him off and take his place on top of the Rock Human heirarchy. Then, you have a pretty straightforward plot where Tooru crashes the Higashikata family dispute, Ultimate Being’s himself with the New Rokakaka, and ultimately loses to his hubris against a newly re-united Hikashikata family, with the curse-breaking tying somehow into his defeat. Maybe it’s similar to how it happens in the manga, and Kaato uses whats left of the New Rokakaka sap to initiate a final exchange between a defeated Ultimate Lifeform Tooru and Tsurugi, fueling the cure by sapping Tooru’s newly attained god powers. For some bonus Part 2 and Part 4 callbacks, we can even have this final exchange turn Tooru into a living statue, made immortal by the powers of the New Rokakaka, who ends up as a lawn decoration or something hilariously dark like that.
That's... pretty good my fellow kiwi.

I just question whether Tooru and the Head Doctor were originally intended to be separate characters. Theres so much about WoU that makes no sense and seemingly only exists to enable the HD to be Tooru’s stand. Like, why can it mimic the HD’s appearance? Why is it one of the few stands that can actually be seen by normal humans and appears to have a real physical form? These aspects would just work much better if the HD remained his own character whose stand just causes the calamities.
I guess the answer is that it's just something that his Stand does. It doesn't bother me that much and it does make WoU very unique, but that's a good point.

Do we have any precedent of a Stand being able to be seen by normies in JoJo before? I'm having a hard time thinking of any at the moment. Maybe automatic Stands like Les Feuielles or Millagro Man, regular Morioh folk clearly seem to be aware of their existence, we just don't know if they have seen their actual forms.

Even for the main Stand wielding character they only show up for 1-2 panels
 
Far as I recall, the only stands normal people can see or interact with are stands bound to objects, like the car guy and the monkey from Part 3 or Superfly from Part 4. For the two you mentioned it’s unlikely that normal people can see the actual stand itself (e.g. the bug things under the leaves, and the humanoid Milagro Man) but they can still interact with the physical objects they affect (the leaves, the sheets of money generated by MM),

Technically, we have no reason not to believe that Tooru’s stand is literally puppeting around the Head Doctor’s real physical body,
 
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Do we have any precedent of a Stand being able to be seen by normies in JoJo before? I'm having a hard time thinking of any at the moment. Maybe automatic Stands like Les Feuielles or Millagro Man, regular Morioh folk clearly seem to be aware of their existence, we just don't know if they have seen their actual forms.

Even for the main Stand wielding character they only show up for 1-2 panels
I mean there are a shit load of stands that can be seen by normies that it would take awhile to list them out.
 
By the way, who is your favorite villain? Mine is Dio.
He isn't the best Jojo villain, but I like him because he's just a flamboyant stereotype. He's evil for the sake of it. In Phantom Blood, Dio's personal background more or less tells you he's a little bitch, jealous of Jonathan for being born in a wealthy and loving family. And all that hate and greed finally turns him into a sociopathic vampire who likes yellow way too much. It is the definition of "bizarre".

My second favorite villain is Kira (his stand looks like a cat, who doesn't love that?). Unlike Dio, his reasons for being a "villain" makes a bit more sense. He kills women to indulge his hand fetish; all he desires is to be left alone to continue with his kink. Unlike Dio, he doesn't care about world dominion. His dream is far more mundane and hedonistic. He's a different kind of evil.
In my opinion the "best" Jojo villain is Pucci. He believes in an ultimate goal to save humankind from sin or whatever, but in doing so he commits evil acts. I think he's one of the most realistic characters.
 
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