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Feathers said:
I swear I'm one of the few who enjoyed the Buu saga. It was a lot of fun and played into Toriyama's comedic strengths. Buu was such a creative idea for a villain and I loved watching Fat Buu become good with a simple talking to with Mr.Satan
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I can see its appeal. Android/Cell got held down by way too much plot ironically and it feels like a smorgasbord of half baked ideas being tied together whereas Buu is way more straight forward and more like something Toriyama in his early day would have made up on the fly. Unfortunately the old school Toriyama antics clashed heavily with the new age sci-fi themes hence the divide in opinion also people being dissatisfied with how Gohan was handled.
 
God of Nothing said:
goku became an absolute whore
just a complete battle slut junkie

Toriyama didn't know how to write Gohan as the protag so maybe it was a good thing, however bad it became.
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Hey man Gohan is just as much of a whore despite how much he doesn't do anything yet gets everything handed to him anyways. Super Hero was all about how much he sucks and cant do anything unless his daughter is in trouble.
I Know 孤独のせい said:
Justice for Saiyaman !

But in all seriousness, bringing Goku back again and again and again resulted in the entire series becoming less and less interesting and especially with Super turned into a bad parody of itself.

With Gohan the series certainly would have probably turned out less popular in the long run but might have resulted in at least something interesting.
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Blame Japanese autism. Same reason why Goku sounds like a granny. They just can't move on. And its not like Gohan is exponentially less popular than Goku (he's currently 3# in the global poll) there's just not a whole lot to do with him.
 
God of Nothing said:
goku became an absolute whore
just a complete battle slut junkie

Toriyama didn't know how to write Gohan as the protag so maybe it was a good thing, however bad it became.
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I mean he doesn't though.

At least not in Z. Super definitely but again I've been rewatching Z and Goku is pretty on point character wise. Yes he's excited to fight but his first priority in every major fight was to check on his friends and get them out before fighting.

Hell he only fights Cell because he wants to try and beat him so Gohan didn't have to fight

Im not saying he isn't excited to fight but he doesn't pull anything like Super where he goes "we have to destroy our universe so we can fight strong guys"
 
Chocolate Rain said:
Blame Japanese autism. Same reason why Goku sounds like a granny. They just can't move on. And its not like Gohan is exponentially less popular than Goku (he's currently 3# in the global poll) there's just not a whole lot to do with him.
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I don't know if it's a conspiracy theory or if there are interviews out there, but I have a sneaking suspicious that Toriyama scrapped Gohan as the main protagonist because he wasn't as popular as Goku when all of this was still a new development. I assume an editor might have talked Toriyama into going back.

Always hard to say in hindsight, but maybe working that angle that Gohan was more of a pacifist and only fought if necessity demanded it might have worked as a prolonged character arc and setting him up as the main chracter. Who knows.
 
I Know 孤独のせい said:
Always hard to say in hindsight, but maybe working that angle that Gohan was more of a pacifist and only fought if necessity demanded it might have worked as a prolonged character arc and setting him up as the main chracter. Who knows.
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Gohan being a pacifist was very much Toriyama murdering Gohan's character for the plot

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Commander X said:
They really make shows about any topic, don't they? There's a new one announced that focuses on foreign exchange trading.


It's like they made an anime about the screaming pink crypto wojak.
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The forex carry trade was massive among household investors ("Watanabe-san"s) for a long time due to the availability of low-interest loans and the relationship between the yen and currencies like the Australian dollar. As of 2022, Japanese retail investors made up 28% of global retail forex trades.
 
I Know 孤独のせい said:
Justice for Saiyaman !

But in all seriousness, bringing Goku back again and again and again resulted in the entire series becoming less and less interesting and especially with Super turned into a bad parody of itself.

With Gohan the series certainly would have probably turned out less popular in the long run but might have resulted in at least something interesting.
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It wasn't really that bad in Buu saga considering everyone gets their moment (as short as those are). Super though was when it became its own parody.
 
Professor Donger said:
Gohan being a pacifist was very much Toriyama murdering Gohan's character for the plot

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Maybe Gohan was just a dumb child ? Maybe he was angry about the death of this surrogate father ? Maybe he matured and realized the error of his ways ? Maybe Toriyama didn't know what he was doing, or maybe he changed his mind ? No idea. I don't necessarily think the manga turned out worse just because Gohan was sidelined. But it certainly was also responsible for the qualitative down spiral of the franchise and I think there was potential for something interesting and maybe even better what we got, especially with Super.

wtfNeedSignUp said:
It wasn't really that bad in Buu saga considering everyone gets their moment (as short as those are). Super though was when it became its own parody.
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The manga isn't perfect by any means, but it's fine. I am not bemoaning the "what if" deconstruction of the shōnen protagonist in the form of Gohan.
Yeah, Super is atrocious garbage. That really was bad fan fiction becoming reality.
 
Feathers said:
Yeah Super Saiyan was introduced earlier, but I think he means the bullshit power up stuff. I personally prefer it to the spirit bomb defeating Frieza.
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I always took it since most of the namekian population was dead at that point and the surrounding plantes were mostly dead, the spirit bomb was not as effective.
 
Finished with Apocalypse Hotel. It's really good all around, but I felt like I rushed it a bit too much and lost a lot of the anticipation between episodes (what I hate about binge culture). The humour is great with some inventive jokes and lots of variety. Having a full on Armored Core battle in one episode was amazing.

I think it was great that they stuck to humour, there are no shortage of post apocalypse android sob stories. It also never feels too repetitive in what happens.
 
Chocolate Rain said:
Or how Goku and Piccolo were actually ailens this entire time
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Argue about Piccolo's alien origins being an asspull all you want (this includes Shenron given Kami being one half of a nameless Namekian), but very few characters (if any) in DB actually were aware of the Oozaru suggesting it likely wasn't an originator on their earth. All they knew was Goku was special.
 
Thomas Talus said:
The forex carry trade was massive among household investors ("Watanabe-san"s) for a long time due to the availability of low-interest loans and the relationship between the yen and currencies like the Australian dollar. As of 2022, Japanese retail investors made up 28% of global retail forex trades.
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Poor bastards never recovered from the 80s crash, and instead of owning physical assets they are dabbling in counter-party risk shit 1s and 0s. Too depressing...
 
Kari Kamiya said:
Argue about Piccolo's alien origins being an asspull all you want (this includes Shenron given Kami being one half of a nameless Namekian), but very few characters (if any) in DB actually were aware of the Oozaru suggesting it likely wasn't an originator on their earth. All they knew was Goku was special.
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Because the Goku's conception was that he was just a strong kid. That was the joke.
 
Dragon Ball's biggest weakness is that Toriyama usually made shit up as he went along and didn't really plan things out. Dragon Ball's strength is that Toriyama was good at coming up with interesting ideas and executing on their presentations as best as could be with little to no narrative set-up. The conflict between Gohan and Cell for instance isn't set-up that well, and with 20/20 hindsight you could easily rewrite the arc to build things up better to make the pay-off and narrative themes stronger. But even as it is, the idea is striking enough and the presentation skilled enough that it makes readers/watchers emotional and hyped up to see it all happen.
 
Finally got to watching episode 3 of Strange/Fake. It's pretty good, action is solid though blurry compared to the LN teaser they put out years ago. Only complaint is the way True Assassin deviated from the novel. Now anime only niggas think it's Pinocchio instead of someone so sneaky they can make your hand write without you noticing
 
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