$ (BTC) The Bitcoin Thread - NO SHITCOINERS ALLOWED

[Kosher Dill]

They could be used as digital documents, eg. proof that a certificate was issued to a certain person by a certain institution.

Digital signatures already exist and don't require a blockchain.

 

[Vapid_Idiot]

Seriously, dude. Being a J.D. with more internet knowledge than 99%+ of your peers...
...You should get in on the ground floor re: legal protection/registration of NFTs.

Start a firm - lobby the SEC for taxation and registration of NFTs (the Gvmt won't protect what it can't tax).

Imagine being the ONLY firm in the US legally allowed to register and track ownership of NFTs.
You would make a KILLING.

sheeeeeit this is a fucking billion dollar idea

 

[The Ultimate Ramotith]

Texas i seeking to be the Bitcoin capital.

Texas Plans to Become the U.S. Bitcoin Capital. Can Its Grid, Ercot, …

archived 19 Nov 2021 17:51:45 UTC

archive.fo

Texas Plans to Become the Bitcoin Capital, Vulnerable Power Grid and All

Crypto miners with more than double the power demand of Austin are descending on the anti-regulation state.

www.bloomberg.com

prepare for crypto to make people freeze to death not only in kazakhstan

the gryphoneer resurrections (@OneRadChee): "prepare for crypto to ma…

archived 24 Jan 2022 08:12:37 UTC

archive.ph

gryphoneer of the king-killing association (@OneRadChee)

prepare for crypto to make people freeze to death not only in kazakhstan

nttr.stream

 

[MadStan]

Funny how they boasted Bitcoin was "the ultimate Inflation Hedge" until it came time to become the ultimate inflation hedge.

Inflation Hedges don't make you rich. They keep you rich.

Bitcoin ain't no inflation Hedge.

 

[Blobby's Murder Knife]

Funny how they boasted Bitcoin was "the ultimate Inflation Hedge" until it came time to become the ultimate inflation hedge.

Inflation Hedges don't make you rich. They keep you rich.

Bitcoin ain't no inflation Hedge.

A few coins are just cyclical pump and dumps - Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc. If you ride out the dumps, they historically recover to new ATH. The vast majority of coins are just one off pump and dumps though and should be avoided. Like penny stocks, it is a great way to get permanently fucked in the ass if you get in at the wrong time.

Best inflation hedge is just to have a bartable skill and the means of production. Against deflation, basically to cash out at the top (lol, good luck) and go back to what you do in an inflation situation.

 

[MadStan]

Heads up!

Section 60201 and section 60202 of the Competes Act and how it relates to modification of Section 5318A of title 31, United States Code,

Essentially the power of the Treasury Sec and FinCEN are expanded to include any person, or group inside or outside of the United States engaged in any transfers of funds.

The power of the Secretary and FinCEN is essentially increased to rope in all institutions or facilitators of transfers that allow laundering by any means and is targeting Crypto and NFTs.

Also, by definition of the amendments it gives the power to the Areas Sec to ban types of transactions. I'll say that again: Ban types of transactions if required.

Small section in a 2900 page document, but very powerful in short and the intent is pretty clear. While many news outlets are just printing what they've been told, I read it and it is a big deal.

 

[Treasure Champs]

Small section in a 2900 page document, but very powerful in short and the intent is pretty clear. While many news outlets are just printing what they've been told, I read it and it is a big deal.

Charles Hoskinson threw a fit about it the other day. Whatever you think of the guy, he's on the ball. It was picked up by the crypto youtubers after he made this video. "You can't make up this shit!"

 

[Tuturesque]

Funny how they boasted Bitcoin was "the ultimate Inflation Hedge" until it came time to become the ultimate inflation hedge.

Inflation Hedges don't make you rich. They keep you rich.

Bitcoin ain't no inflation Hedge.

This is silly. Gold is accepted as an inflation hedge, yet look at its price these past few days. It isn't all about price. If I buy gold one day and the next day its price in dollars goes down, did I lose money? No, I still have what I paid for. The benefit with bitcoin is I don't have to worry about shipping and handling.

 

[MadStan]

This is silly. Gold is accepted as an inflation hedge, yet look at its price these past few days. It isn't all about price. If I buy gold one day and the next day its price in dollars goes down, did I lose money? No, I still have what I paid for. The benefit with bitcoin is I don't have to worry about shipping and handling.

This argument that an asset needs to be "digital" to be moveable is inaccurate on a wholesale level.

The argument "gold is no good because you have to ship it" it also folly. Gold is kept in banks and in companies where your gold is stored; and it has been that way for some time. Same place your "money" is kept. $100,000 weighs about the same as a pound of gold, but we do not trade dollars - we use bank accounts that are digital representations of the money. Just like credit or charge cards.

Gold was never intended as an asset to be purchased and sold often, thus the creation of Gold funds where you buy gold certs.

BTC is absolutely no different and the cast majority of trading of BTC or any other "digital asset" will be on funds whereby one buys options rather than the asset itself. One does not go long on BTC and actually buy any BTC codes, one merely hedges a bet, the same that gold, silver or stock traders do.

We don't see Warren Buffet running around with a suitcase with a billion shares either.

Entire companies with millions of square feet of property and equipment are represented by "shares"; we do not send parcels of the company to people. Representation of assets is nothing new and BTC nor Crypto reinvented the wheel - they just innovated on top of an idea that has been used for some time.

There are good argument for crypto and BTC - the idea of them being ultimately movable where other assets aren't is not actually a solid argument for them and falls down quickly.

True, you can transfer millions quickly - you can too with a vast number of methods - bank transfers, option transfers, using a credit card, charge card to stocks and tens of billions a day are transferred via these methods daily without "posting" them.

And let us be frank, 99% of people do not need to transfer millions of dollars every day quickly. So the argument that gold is not "liquid enough" is killed pretty quickly.

Gold certs are valid almost anywhere and more importantly, are valid to institutions that have millions to instantly convert it too.

If you are buying a true inflation hedge, then you seldom should be buying and selling it. If you are, then it isn't an inflation hedge at all and is something masquerading as a hedge.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

This argument that an asset needs to be "digital" to be moveable is inaccurate on a wholesale level.

The argument "gold is no good because you have to ship it" it also folly. Gold is kept in banks and in companies where your gold is stored; and it has been that way for some time. Same place your "money" is kept. $100,000 weighs about the same as a pound of gold, but we do not trade dollars - we use bank accounts that are digital representations of the money. Just like credit or charge cards.

Gold was never intended as an asset to be purchased and sold often, thus the creation of Gold funds where you buy gold certs.

BTC is absolutely no different and the cast majority of trading of BTC or any other "digital asset" will be on funds whereby one buys options rather than the asset itself. One does not go long on BTC and actually buy any BTC codes, one merely hedges a bet, the same that gold, silver or stock traders do.

We don't see Warren Buffet running around with a suitcase with a billion shares either.

Entire companies with millions of square feet of property and equipment are represented by "shares"; we do not send parcels of the company to people. Representation of assets is nothing new and BTC nor Crypto reinvented the wheel - they just innovated on top of an idea that has been used for some time.

There are good argument for crypto and BTC - the idea of them being ultimately movable where other assets aren't is not actually a solid argument for them and falls down quickly.

True, you can transfer millions quickly - you can too with a vast number of methods - bank transfers, option transfers, using a credit card, charge card to stocks and tens of billions a day are transferred via these methods daily without "posting" them.

And let us be frank, 99% of people do not need to transfer millions of dollars every day quickly. So the argument that gold is not "liquid enough" is killed pretty quickly.

Gold certs are valid almost anywhere and more importantly, are valid to institutions that have millions to instantly convert it too.

If you are buying a true inflation hedge, then you seldom should be buying and selling it. If you are, then it isn't an inflation hedge at all and is something masquerading as a hedge.

One problem with gold (not so much with other precious metals), is the certificates are oversold by a factor of 3x -10x. Cert to holding audits are typically done every 7 - 10 years. Overselling certs is fraud. The certificate literally states that X amount of ounces being held is yours.

This is really bad, and points to gold actually being undervalued in the market.

 

[MadStan]

One problem with gold (not so much with other precious metals), is the certificates are oversold by a factor of 3x -10x. Cert to holding audits are typically done every 7 - 10 years. Overselling certs is fraud. The certificate literally states that X amount of ounces being held is yours.

This is really bad, and points to gold actually being undervalued in the market.

Well there is absolute truth in the fact that far more certs exist than there is actual Gold.

But as we recall with the Dogecoin fiasco this behavior isn't limited to just gold - it applies to almost any asset.

We can g to an exchange and "hedge bets" on anything, even more than is in existence but it is th exchange that wears the risk, not the "gold" itself.

So an an example, with the recent liquidations in long positions on BTC, the exchanges never actually held the long positions in actual BTC - they merely accepted the gamble.

If we are to limit that an asset can only be held as a security once, then a cascade of problems unfolds.

BTC by itself can not work as a security unless this gambling is allowed to take place. You can't have it one way and not the other.

And yes, the price of gold is severely manipulated.

All that would have to happen is for a coin to be issued backed by Gold and for it to hold a trillion dollars worth of Gold and the exchanges that have been manipulating the gold price would crash, and those holding the Gold Coin would probably see Gold hit $8,000

 

[secretchan]

This argument that an asset needs to be "digital" to be moveable is inaccurate on a wholesale level.

This take lacks nuance. Bitcoin is the most movable asset in the history of humankind. You can oscillate it around the world millions of times, very cheaply. No other asset is even remotely comparable. Movability, along with resistance to debasement and ease of network participation are all parameters that determine a medium of exchanges hardness, and it is the single most important factor in deciding the efficacy of a currency as well as its dominance on the world stage.

The argument "gold is no good because you have to ship it" it also folly. Gold is kept in banks and in companies where your gold is stored; and it has been that way for some time. Same place your "money" is kept. $100,000 weighs about the same as a pound of gold, but we do not trade dollars - we use bank accounts that are digital representations of the money. Just like credit or charge cards.

Gold was never intended as an asset to be purchased and sold often, thus the creation of Gold funds where you buy gold certs.

Gold failed for several reasons, but for thousands of years it was an asset that was used as a global unit of account and store of value. The reasons for golds decline are complicated and drawn out, but can be in large part described by the vampiric central banks over the last 100 years and has many parallels to the debasement of the Aureus, its just that the usurers from 100 years ago used more clever tricks and abstract machinery.

Unlike all other assets, Bitcoin cannot be debased, its supply is programatic, and at any point in the past or future, you can look up the exact amount of bitcoin that will be in circulation, an impossibility for gold and certainly for Fiat money. In its purest form, it cannot be censored/seized/restricted/destroyed in any way.

You yourself admit that the ownership of our non-physical assets is already digital, why then, would bitcoin not be the best and most logical abstraction of what digital value is? Much more valuable than say, $100,000 in a CBDC account? Or paper gold that you know doesnt even exist?

BTC is absolutely no different and the cast majority of trading of BTC or any other "digital asset" will be on funds whereby one buys options rather than the asset itself. One does not go long on BTC and actually buy any BTC codes, one merely hedges a bet, the same that gold, silver or stock traders do.

I agree with this. Most people in the future will interact with the Bitcoin network without realizing it. This is a position that a lot in the crypto community, especially purists, screech at. Bitcoin DOES allow for radical ownership, more so than any digital asset or physical asset as well as the money in your bank account. I also think it will prove much harder or impossible to kill than gold, even by paper trading.

Representation of assets is nothing new and BTC nor Crypto reinvented the wheel - they just innovated on top of an idea that has been used for some time.

Bitcoin is the first global unit of account in a distributed ledger that can be traded trustlessly & losslessly at a nearly infinite frequency, it quite literally reinvented the wheel by erasing the need for middlemen and trust that plagues fiat and gold.

True, you can transfer millions quickly - you can too with a vast number of methods - bank transfers, option transfers, using a credit card, charge card to stocks and tens of billions a day are transferred via these methods daily without "posting" them.

Again, the movability that BTC allows for BTFOs of all of these, and no, most people cant move millions dollars using a robinhood charge card or common bank account lol. Such privileges arent given to the common populace under the fiat system.

And let us be frank, 99% of people do not need to transfer millions of dollars every day quickly. So the argument that gold is not "liquid enough" is killed pretty quickly.

Gold certs are valid almost anywhere and more importantly, are valid to institutions that have millions to instantly convert it too.

If you are buying a true inflation hedge, then you seldom should be buying and selling it. If you are, then it isn't an inflation hedge at all and is something masquerading as a hedge.

99% of people dont need to transact millions every day, but so what? Most people cant even send more than a few thousand dollars a day and any transaction over $600 gets reported to the IRS. You dont own your money and you cant move, transport or even transact with it whenever you want.
Bitcoin is an inflation hedge. There is not a 4 year period where bitcoin returned less than 100% per year. Of course it is volatile and in the short term can lead to massive losses, but much like what gold "was," it should be saved. The notion that currencies, need to be spent recklessly and immediately is a symptom of fiat debt systems and the normalization of wage slavery.

Bitcoin will become the global reserve currency. When stores of value battle for supremacy, the harder one will win. The dollar will be the last to collapse. Its impossible predict when, but ask yourself, which is more likely to exist in 100 years USD or Bitcoin? It is a certainty, barring complete destruction of the entire planet, that the BTC network will still be mining blocks every 600 seconds. I am not telling you to put your net worth into bitcoin, but you should at least hold a small bag, and read more about what it is. Crypto is here to stay and it will change alot over the next 30 years and I think everyones perception of what it is and does will change very drastically from what they are now, just like with the internet.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

The one problem I have with BTC is anonymity. If you have someone's wallet address, you have every transaction.
You have the wallets of everyone you transact with. You have every transaction- pizza, altcoins, donations, or ...
Making a new wallet does nothing - because you will have to wash one wallet to the next.

You can anonymize transactions (tumbling) but blockchain tracing tools are getting better every day.

Make your sock wallets sooner rather than later, guys.

 

[greenthrowaway]

The one problem I have with BTC is anonymity. If you have someone's wallet address, you have every transaction.
You have the wallets of everyone you transact with. You have every transaction- pizza, altcoins, donations, or ...
Making a new wallet does nothing - because you will have to wash one wallet to the next.

You can anonymize transactions (tumbling) but blockchain tracing tools are getting better every day.

Make your sock wallets sooner rather than later, guys.

Atomic Swaps from Bitcoin into Monero will allow for fungibility and anonymity.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Atomic Swaps from Bitcoin into Monero will allow for fungibility and anonymity.

But who will want to be on the "receive BTC" side of that? As far as the feds are concerned, that's exactly the same as operating a tumbler - you take in BTC and spit out something anonymous.

 

[greenthrowaway]

But who will want to be on the "receive BTC" side of that? As far as the feds are concerned, that's exactly the same as operating a tumbler - you take in BTC and spit out something anonymous.

BTC will be used for major transactions that need to clear anyways like rent, car, or consooming. If the demand for XMR is higher than the price would reflect it. Market makers would happily take a percentage fee to get you’ll into a new asset class. I can sell my very popular Tesla stock and buy a lesser company as there is liquidity into any and all assets. It just has a slippage cost.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The one problem I have with BTC is anonymity. If you have someone's wallet address, you have every transaction.
You have the wallets of everyone you transact with. You have every transaction- pizza, altcoins, donations, or ...
Making a new wallet does nothing - because you will have to wash one wallet to the next.

You can anonymize transactions (tumbling) but blockchain tracing tools are getting better every day.

Make your sock wallets sooner rather than later, guys.

Pretty sure that's one of the reasons BTC still exists, doubly so when using it for illegal shit, so the feds can have easy way to prove those happened.
Also I always wondered, wouldn't grabbing one person who is connected to people doing a specific transaction can unravel the entire affair?

 

[AnOminous]

You have every transaction- pizza, altcoins, donations, or ...
Making a new wallet does nothing - because you will have to wash one wallet to the next.

Never use the same address more than once.

 

[Win98SE]

FYI: If you're including crypto in your taxes this year, I recommend bitcoin.tax. No bullshit portfolio tracking, sane pricing (most services are 2x/3x the cost), handles a bunch of exchanges, and it imported directly into my tax software with zero fuss.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

I imagine that all wallets are being mapped to IRL names/addresses. Probably one of the goals of the KYC rules.