Car Thread - VROOM VROOM

[SpookNuker]

So are you saying that there are people that are passionate about Daewoos, even though the brand died out almost 20 years ago, and is now part of General Motors now?

Yes. I know Geo Metro, Yugo, and modern Mitsubishi Mirage enthusiasts. There are guys passionate about old Soviet cars like GAZ models. Daewoo guys gotta be out there.

It seems you definitely have more experience with the nitty gritty stuff that goes into auto manufacturing but I have to disagree with you on your point about old BMWs. I used to also think that BMWs are useless money pits and impossible to work on, but after a few years of owning them, I can wholeheartedly disagree. In fact, I used to own a reliable Japanese car but after getting bit by the BMW bug, my whole fleet consists of only bimmers. While some BMW models are more troublesome like the E60 M5 and various N54 equipped models. I think the vast majority of modern classic BMW are a joy to work on as everything is logically designed making maintenance a breeze.

That being said, my experience is only with port injected BMWs, so everything before the N series of engines. I've become rather intimate with the E46 (1999 - 2006) and M54 chassis/engine, the engine of which is shared among many other models of that era. The valve cover job on the M54 is very easy and does not require any torx/star bits. It's just your typical 10mm hex. However, to do bigger jobs you do need a set of torx, etorx, wobble extensions, etc but any competent garage monkey will have that in their toolset. I think that's even more true with modern cars as etorx are really loved by machines in the manufacturing process. Once you really start working on these bimmers you get to appreciate the thought that went into the design for serviceability.

I said BMWs from the past ~15 years, not older than ~15 years. That was deliberate. Bimmers from about 2005 and older are not a big deal to repair and maintain, so I don’t disagree with your example. The post-2005ish stuff? No thank you. Especially the brand-new ones, because I get to see a lot of current production models during tear-down analysis.

You’re also correct about torx being automation-friendly (and in general they are superior fasteners compared to stuff like hex) but my point is that when a “simple” service procedure involves several different sizes of “odd” sockets/bits to remove all the shit burying what you’re trying to get at, it becomes harder and harder to call it “simple.” If a procedure involves pentalobe or security torx fasteners at any point, it’s safe to say that the manufacturer just doesn’t want you fucking with it. Modern BMW is guilty of this. Shit, even domestic brands are. IIRC, GM used security torx on the MAF sensors of some W-Body vehicles because they’re assholes.

All that said, I don’t usually mind fasteners like this since I own the tools. But I always consider their application. Triple-square head bolts? Alright, sure. I kinda get that. A mix of torx, e-torx, hex, internal hex, and philips to do a four-corner brake job, or long-reach torx bits to replace a motor mount, both being the case on a Saturn Astra (itself a rebadged Opel Astra H)? Miss me with that shit.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Yes. I know Geo Metro, Yugo, and modern Mitsubishi Mirage enthusiasts. There are guys passionate about old Soviet cars like GAZ models. Daewoo guys gotta be out there.


I said BMWs from the past ~15 years, not older than ~15 years. That was deliberate. Bimmers from about 2005 and older are not a big deal to repair and maintain, so I don’t disagree with your example. The post-2005ish stuff? No thank you. Especially the brand-new ones, because I get to see a lot of current production models during tear-down analysis.

You’re also correct about torx being automation-friendly (and in general they are superior fasteners compared to stuff like hex) but my point is that when a “simple” service procedure involves several different sizes of “odd” sockets/bits to remove all the shit burying what you’re trying to get at, it becomes harder and harder to call it “simple.” If a procedure involves pentalobe or security torx fasteners at any point, it’s safe to say that the manufacturer just doesn’t want you fucking with it. Modern BMW is guilty of this. Shit, even domestic brands are. IIRC, GM used security torx on the MAF sensors of some W-Body vehicles because they’re assholes.

All that said, I don’t usually mind fasteners like this since I own the tools. But I always consider their application. Triple-square head bolts? Alright, sure. I kinda get that. A mix of torx, e-torx, hex, internal hex, and philips to do a four-corner brake job, or long-reach torx bits to replace a motor mount, both being the case on a Saturn Astra (itself a rebadged Opel Astra H)? Miss me with that shit.

Gotcha. Since the E90 and E60 generation are hitting bottom barrel prices on the used market now and those cars also having a big following, what are your thoughts on the N52 and other NA engines of the N series? It seems there are many guides out there as well as user friendly service manuals. From what I hear those largely follow similar layout to the M54 engines. Also what are your thoughts on the joint Toyota BMW B58 engine? It seems they're pretty reliable and not terrible to work on though the only thing I've done on that is a simple oil and filter change.

I agree with your point on use of obscure head types. The need for a large variety of sockets is annoying. I've even replaced some etorx with regular hex heads on my cars.

 

[TiggerNits]

Yes. I know Geo Metro, Yugo, and modern Mitsubishi Mirage enthusiasts. There are guys passionate about old Soviet cars like GAZ models. Daewoo guys gotta be out there.

Truth. I have a friend with 2 Metros and a mid 60s international scout. He has one bone stock metro in mint condition with 320k miles on it that he's kept up on that he dailies. The other has a turbo's Kawasaki v-twin that he uses for rally. The scout is beat to shit and a mish mash of Jeep, Mitsubishi and old Ford Ranger parts he uses to haul the rally car. He's a weird guy that's incredibly cool if you can appreciate it.

 

[SpookNuker]

Gotcha. Since the E90 and E60 generation are hitting bottom barrel prices on the used market now and those cars also having a big following, what are your thoughts on the N52 and other NA engines of the N series? It seems there are many guides out there as well as user friendly service manuals. From what I hear those largely follow similar layout to the M54 engines. Also what are your thoughts on the joint Toyota BMW B58 engine? It seems they're pretty reliable and not terrible to work on though the only thing I've done on that is a simple oil and filter change.

I agree with your point on use of obscure head types. The need for a large variety of sockets is annoying. I've even replaced some etorx with regular hex heads on my cars.

I can't attest to having a lot of hands-on experience with the N52, and virtually none with the rest of the N series, but my neighbor is an Audi/BMW guy and one of my good friends is kind of a BMW guy. I've helped them both with the odd thing here and there. They're decent engines, and quite smooth being an inline 6, but the VANOS solenoids WILL fail like clockwork and at the same time you're probably going to need to replace the valve cover gasket along with some other items to address the leaks that they have a habit of forming. IIRC getting to the VANOS solenoids and valve cover requires removing all kinds of shit they have tacked on top of the engine. Know how to replace a VVT solenoid on a GM 1.8L Ecotec? Pop the hood, disconnect the wire harness, remove one fastener, and pull the solenoid out. Then get your new one and work in reverse. That's the kind of simplicity I adore.

I've also heard complaints about thermostat/water pump failure but I've always considered those to be normal maintenance items on practically every engine and have never had to replace them on an N52, so maybe they're just more difficult than usual to replace?

Anyway, as I said, BMWs that are over 15 years old seem to be good, honest vehicles. This a tangent, but I think that around 2000 BMW engineering started to go off the deep end and by the end of the 00s the insanity fully took root. This is evident in the first BMW-era Minis (R50/R52/R53, etc) which debuted in 2000, where simple stuff like replacing a front inner ball joint requires partially dropping the damned subframe. And guess what has a habit of failing? The front inner ball joints. Also, pretty much everything else on the car. I get that it's a small car and packaging is an overriding consideration, but come on guys. One of my coworkers is a BMW-era Mini fanatic, and it seems like a painful lifestyle choice. At least he steers clear of the R56 Cooper S with that turbocharged Peugeot shitheap of an engine that will coke its intake valves so bad it needs a walnut media blast every 30k. Gott strafe Frankreich!

EDIT: Forgot to answer your question about the B58 - lol no opinion. I don't think I have looked at one. They sound extremely capable though. If I owned a Z4 or Supra I'd probably love it so much that I'd make any and every excuse I could for however easy or difficult it might be to deal with their variants of the B58.

My experience with modern BMWs is mainly with their twin-turbo V8s, namely the N63/S63. They're powerhouses, and the funky Hot-V layout is cool, but the entire design of that thing screams "fuck you, wrenchlet, go to the dealer." Worse yet, they are very maintenance intensive/sensitive and have had tons of issues. I can only cut them so much slack for being the first production Hot-V.

Their chassis' are very impressive, however! That was my main focus during studies on the X7 that I was involved with. I just wish they'd chill out on the fastening method variety. Spot welds, mig welds, flow-drill screws, hex, torx, rivets, tog-l-locs, structural adhesives, etc etc, sheesh! That's not really a huge issue for chassis construction beyond tooling capital investment, but if you've already got the machines, eh... The issue is that this practice carries over to pretty much every other system in the vehicle. The term I have for it is "German fastener salad."

At work I've been looking at fewer and fewer ICE engine platforms these days since there is a huge industry-wide shift to EVs, and so that has been the main focus since nearly two years ago. In my free time I work on basically whatever, from 1940's British roadsters to current production vehicles.

Truth. I have a friend with 2 Metros and a mid 60s international scout. He has one bone stock metro in mint condition with 320k miles on it that he's kept up on that he dailies. The other has a turbo's Kawasaki v-twin that he uses for rally. The scout is beat to shit and a mish mash of Jeep, Mitsubishi and old Ford Ranger parts he uses to haul the rally car. He's a weird guy that's incredibly cool if you can appreciate it.

For being so small and slow, Metros and the dozen other derivatives of the Suzuki Cultus/Swift are fun (if they've got the 5-speed manual), cheap as hell, quite reliable, and are some of the most spartan, no-bullshit, easy-to-work-on vehicles you could possibly own. You can quite literally lift the 1.0 liter G10 3-cyl engine or the transmission out by hand. Unfortunately, they tend to rust like nobody's business if they aren't treated with rust preventatives such as lanolin, or if they haven't spent their lives in a dry environment. The floorpans and "frame horns" that the front control arms attach to are especially susceptible, and the frame horns are critical because these cars don't have subframes. They're true unibodies. Being so inexpensive, not many have been treated well. I was seriously considering buying a Suzuki Swift GTi that a guy down in Georgia had converted to RWD and swapped a Hayabusa engine into, but I figured it was a lot of money and effort just to end up killing myself in a cloud of tire smoke and shrapnel. Would have been absolutely baller, though.

 

[Yamamura]

If people collect Lada then I'm sure some mad lad is out there.

I'm somewhat interested in hearing about the history of old communist cars just because the stories of how they were engineered and came to be are a bit fascinating to me.

I was seriously considering buying a Suzuki Swift GTi that a guy down in Georgia had converted to RWD and swapped a Hayabusa engine into, but I figured it was a lot of money and effort just to end up killing myself in a cloud of tire smoke and shrapnel. Would have been absolutely baller, though.

Similar thought here, one time I saw a Suzuki Cappuccino with a Hayabusa swap and felt some really interesting feelings that I hadn't felt in a while. I found myself looking at local import laws regarding the street use of kei cars but find I have to wind up talking myself out of it.

 

[KingFrampt]

1993-1995 Mercedes has a special place in my heart, the shape of it is just so fucking nice, the modern ones aren't bad either

The E/S Class is also commonly driven by the Yakuza so bonus points for finger chopping
(this ones an s class)

 

[SpookNuker]

Suzuki Cappuccino with a Hayabusa swap

please don't tempt me like that

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

I'm somewhat interested in hearing about the history of old communist cars just because the stories of how they were engineered and came to be are a bit fascinating to me.


Similar thought here, one time I saw a Suzuki Cappuccino with a Hayabusa swap and felt some really interesting feelings that I hadn't felt in a while. I found myself looking at local import laws regarding the street use of kei cars but find I have to wind up talking myself out of it.

My kingdom for a Honda Beat or AZ-1 that can accommodate someone over 6' tall. I barely fit in a Miata.

I do find myself looking at Daihatsu Midget II listings lately, though.

 

[The Last Stand]

More car actresses:

Marlene Dietrich and her 1934 Cadillac V16 Cabriolet​

After starting out in silent films in Berlin in the early 20s, Marlene Dietrich soon became an international star following her role in the 1930 film The Blue Angel. Throughout her expansive career, Dietrich was known for her “bedroom eyes” that captivated audiences worldwide. In her spare time, she rode around in her 1934 Cadillac Cabriolet.

These women had great taste in cars. Shames cars in that decade are slow and cumbersome.

 

[Bassomatic]

Dietrich also fucked Greta Garbo. She had great taste in everything.

Had an encounter with a 435i today. Civic still little quicker (from about 20-80) and wow it sounded awful stock. Was taken back.

 

[The Last Stand]

Dietrich also fucked Greta Garbo. She had great taste in everything.

Explain yourself.

Bonnie and Clyde?

 

[Shibaru]

ngl, i'd daily old cozy Luxury Cars from like the 90s and early-mid 2000s, an example being like a Lexus LS, specifically one in Alan Mulally Spec.

Didn't they make TVs too?

View attachment 2436896

They also made guns too.

(Daewoo K2 Rifle)

 

[The Last Stand]

They also made guns too.

That looks like a toy.

Did I do Bette Davis?

1940 Buick Woody from Now, Voyager! I think the studio gave it to her after production. Car itself has a story.

By Charles McEwen

• April 1, 2007

ONE of the rarest Buick Supers is the 1940 wood-body station wagon that is said to have once been owned by Bette Davis.
As the story goes, the car was originally part of the Warner Brothers fleet, which the studio used in its movies, and it had a cameo role in “Now, Voyager,” the 1942 film that starred Davis and Paul Henreid. At some point after that, the studio apparently gave her the car.
“We have documentation that shows it in the movies,” said Martyn L. Schorr, a spokesman for the car’s owner, “but as far as details of when they gave it away, my guess is that you can’t tell.”
The car was restored some years ago, when it was repainted in its original maroon and its red leather interior was refurbished. Nicola Bulgari, the vice chairman of his family’s worldwide chain of jewelry stores, bought it in 2001.

Image

Bette Davis and Paul Henreid in "Now, Voyager."Credit...Culver Pictures
It can be seen on Friday, Saturday and next Sunday at the New York International Automobile Show at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center, where it will be part of the display of 16 notable cars sponsored by the Harold E. LeMay Museum in Tacoma, Wash.
Buick built only 495 Super wagons in 1940, the first year of its production. Buick called them Estate Wagons, and it turned to the Biehl Body Company in Reading, Pa., to supply the wood bodies.
In their book, “The Buick: A Complete History” (Automobile Quarterly, 2002), Terry B. Dunham and Lawrence R. Gustin tell how the Buick wagon came to be. The push for it came from an unusual source: Bunny McLeod, the wife of Norman Z. McLeod, who directed “Monkey Business” and “Horse Feathers” with the Marx Brothers.
In 1938, she told visiting Buick brass that the family didn’t own a Buick because there wasn’t a station wagon in the entire line and she needed one. Buick took the hint. Like other Supers, the Estate Wagons were powered by a 248-cubic-inch straight 8s and a three-speed manual transmission. Like other wagons of the day, the wood was structural, not decorative, making the cars prone to squeaks, rattles and rot.

​

​

But Estate Wagons, with their varnished white ash and mahogany, projected a countrified elegance from Newport to Newport Beach.

 

[Torque Wheeler]

Do you think there are any objectively bad cars in the modern era? Sure, you've got anything with a CVT and active cylinder management that limits some vehicles to 150k miles, but I think every modern car I've been in has been decent to amazing.

I have an embarrassing Cummins douche caboose I bought for work but then they gave me a much newer truck that I don't have to do any maintenance on, pay for gas or insurance. They even detail it for me once a month.

I've been thinking about getting a 90s trans am. Those haven't shot up in value too much lately. It gets you the Corvette specs without the Corvette price tag or beardfats to deal with.

I love my air-cooled Volkswagens, and I own/owned a few, but I think I want something between project car and daily driver. Something I can go cross country in while having fun.

VW transporters are ideal, but they're so expensive, and even after a Subaru swap are still slow.

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

Do you think there are any objectively bad cars in the modern era? Sure, you've got anything with a CVT and active cylinder management that limits some vehicles to 150k miles, but I think every modern car I've been in has been decent to amazing.

I have an embarrassing Cummins douche caboose I bought for work but then they gave me a much newer truck that I don't have to do any maintenance on, pay for gas or insurance. They even detail it for me once a month.

I've been thinking about getting a 90s trans am. Those haven't shot up in value too much lately. It gets you the Corvette specs without the Corvette price tag or beardfats to deal with.

I love my air-cooled Volkswagens, and I own/owned a few, but I think I want something between project car and daily driver. Something I can go cross country in while having fun.

VW transporters are ideal, but they're so expensive, and even after a Subaru swap are still slow.

There are plenty of new cars that aren't any fun, but almost anything you can buy new right now will be perfectly serviceable as daily transportation. Even a Mitsubishi Mirage or Chevy Spark should run for well over 100k miles with nothing but routine maintenance.

The only cars of recent vintage that I'd actively tell people to avoid are any of the PowerShift-equipped Foci and Fiestas, since that transmission is a tire fire of shit design. Also non-Z Nissans in general because... ugh.

Fourth gen F-bodies that aren't completely run down are pretty thin on the ground. They're great for cheap speed, though. Just shy of 300hp with a six-speed, RWD and a curb weight right around 3000 pounds is going to be a pretty good time. If you're shopping those, also look at Mustangs of the same era - similar specs and HUGE aftermarkets for both.

 

[Torque Wheeler]

There are plenty of new cars that aren't any fun, but almost anything you can buy new right now will be perfectly serviceable as daily transportation. Even a Mitsubishi Mirage or Chevy Spark should run for well over 100k miles with nothing but routine maintenance.

The only cars of recent vintage that I'd actively tell people to avoid are any of the PowerShift-equipped Foci and Fiestas, since that transmission is a tire fire of shit design. Also non-Z Nissans in general because... ugh.

Fourth gen F-bodies that aren't completely run down are pretty thin on the ground. They're great for cheap speed, though. Just shy of 300hp with a six-speed, RWD and a curb weight right around 3000 pounds is going to be a pretty good time. If you're shopping those, also look at Mustangs of the same era - similar specs and HUGE aftermarkets for both.

The place I recently moved to has a TON of Nissan trucks for some reason. I don't think there's a plant around here. The place I grew up in only had Nissan trucks for contractors pretty much.

I have been feeling the 4th gen F-bodies. I think I like the idea of a highway weapon, and that Borg Warner 6 speed they put in those are amazingly tight. Mustangs are okay, but I see them everywhere. If I'm going to get a silly car might as well stand out a little bit.

Can confirm the powershit it awful first hand. But you still didn't answer directly: do you think there are any objectively bad modern cars? Let's say, the past 10 years?

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

The place I recently moved to has a TON of Nissan trucks for some reason. I don't think there's a plant around here. The place I grew up in only had Nissan trucks for contractors pretty much.

I have been feeling the 4th gen F-bodies. I think I like the idea of a highway weapon, and that Borg Warner 6 speed they put in those are amazingly tight. Mustangs are okay, but I see them everywhere. If I'm going to get a silly car might as well stand out a little bit.

Can confirm the powershit it awful first hand. But you still didn't answer directly: do you think there are any objectively bad modern cars? Let's say, the past 10 years?

Just the Ford PowerShift cars, which have sub-100K failure baked into the transmission. If you buy those with a stick, they're good (though you will have to suffer through SYNC and its attendant UI gremlins). Everything else is pretty alright and "fine" if all you need is transportation.

Plenty of people give me shit about my current ride because it's kinda small and is enthusiast-focused to a fault in their mind, despite being a (reasonably practical) hatchback. To them, it's a bad car, but to me, it's a low-cost therapy session available on-demand.

To more directly answer your question, almost everything on sale right now is not a terrible decision unless you're considering resale value.

I keep.thinking about stuff I'd like to turn into a project car and the W201 Merc 190 keeps tugging at my sleeve.

 

[Torque Wheeler]

Just the Ford PowerShift cars, which have sub-100K failure baked into the transmission. If you buy those with a stick, they're good (though you will have to suffer through SYNC and its attendant UI gremlins). Everything else is pretty alright and "fine" if all you need is transportation.

Plenty of people give me shit about my current ride because it's kinda small and is enthusiast-focused to a fault in their mind, despite being a (reasonably practical) hatchback. To them, it's a bad car, but to me, it's a low-cost therapy session available on-demand.

To more directly answer your question, almost everything on sale right now is not a terrible decision unless you're considering resale value.

I keep.thinking about stuff I'd like to turn into a project car and the W201 Merc 190 keeps tugging at my sleeve.

I love boxy 80s cars like the W201 Mercs. I don't think hatchbacks appeal to me too much. GTIs, WRXs, Foci and Civics are okay, but when you run the numbers it sure looks like the same car with tiny differences. However, I keep seeing Cabrios go for under $1000 in my neck of the woods. Maybe I'll pick up one of those for my fun car lol

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

I love boxy 80s cars like the W201 Mercs. I don't think hatchbacks appeal to me too much. GTIs, WRXs, Foci and Civics are okay, but when you run the numbers it sure looks like the same car with tiny differences. However, I keep seeing Cabrios go for under $1000 in my neck of the woods. Maybe I'll pick up one of those for my fun car lol

They're just Golfs, so all of the GTI shit bolts on. Not a bad plan.

Also, dumb fast hatchbacks are the tits.

 

[Stoneheart]

1993-1995 Mercedes E Class has a special place in my heart, the shape of it is just so fucking nice, the modern ones aren't bad either

i had the station wagon version as my first car. it was dirt cheap and beat down because it was a former taxi cab but it never broke down.
Its still serving as the beat down first car for my family, It hasnt seen normal diesel in a decade or so, runs perfectly on (used)vegetable oil.

Repairs were much cheaper than on my w12 VW, thats for sure