Christian Dominionists - Bible Versus Constitution

[Caesare]

So what you're saying is that everyone that goes there is already an empty husk of a human being, then?

I think the people that go there know what they are getting into.

 

[escapegoat]

I think a lot of the kids that end up in those places are... terrified of fairly innocent, boring things, and completely acclimated to incredibly weird shit. You can legit end up at one of those schools convinced that a single sip of beer will mean that you are doomed to a lifetime of permanent alcoholism, leading to a life of orgies and sodomy and prostitution. But you wouldn't blink twice at someone freely blaming a 9yo for being molested.

It's not really "knowing what you are getting into" so much as "not knowing anything else."

 

[Android raptor]

Yeah, I highly doubt most of the kids going to these schools have much exposure to life outside of nutty Christian fundie stuff. Most fundie parents either send their kids to private Christian schools or homeschool them so they aren't gonna grow up with much interaction with non-fundie kids, and they severely limit what kinds of media their kids are allowed to be exposed to. It's why there's so many Christian knockoffs of shit like Cars and American Girl dolls and Disney Princesses and whatnot, it's for the fundie parents who don't allow their kids to watch/read/whatever the real deal. So the kids going to these schools likely are pretty used to living in such a restrictive environment.

 

[Caesare]

I think a lot of the kids that end up in those places are... terrified of fairly innocent, boring things, and competely acclimated to incredibly weird shit. You can legit end up at one of those schools convinced that a single sip of beer will mean that you are doomed to a lifetime of permanent alcoholism, leading to a life of orgies and sodomy and prostitution. But you wouldn't blink twice at someone freely blaming a 9yo for being molested.

It's not really "knowing what you are getting into" so much as "not knowing anything else."

You can't grow to adulthood and be like this. That's movie/television logic that you're getting into. I guess its kinda fun to look at this from the outside and think they are these idiot, maladjusted manchildren that don't know any better and that we're so much smarter and more fun (despite being from this website???) but that's really naive.

If you've ever met sheltered kids, they are always turn out to be the most wild mf'ers when they get a little older. You are talking like these people were raised in complete isolation until adulthood, that just doesn't ever really happen with average people that go to college. Unless your family was in a cult, but then you wouldn't be going to college anyway.

But you wouldn't blink twice at someone freely blaming a 9yo for being molested.

What a creepy ass thing to say lol.

 

[escapegoat]

What a creepy ass thing to say lol.

Orly?

Why I said it:

That's from Bill Gothard's materials. He's big in that crowd, esp. amongst homeschoolers.


The Christian kids that went to megachurches in well-to-do neighborhoods, that went to school? They end up at accredited colleges. Maybe a 'Christian' school like TCU or something.

Not private, unaccredited fundie colleges. These aren't even the Classical education homeschooled kids that end up at some place like Bob Jones or Liberty. Even though Bob Jones and Liberty are, in their own right, pretty freaky.

 

[Steve Mayers]

Orly?

Why I said it:

That's from Bill Gothard's materials. He's big in that crowd, esp. amongst homeschoolers.


The Christian kids that went to megachurches in well-to-do neighborhoods, that went to school? They end up at accredited colleges. Maybe a 'Christian' school like TCU or something.

Not private, unaccredited fundie colleges. These aren't even the Classical education homeschooled kids that end up at some place like Bob Jones or Liberty. Even though Bob Jones and Liberty are, in their own right, pretty freaky.

Gothard himself has been accused though never convicted of sexual abuse. His most notable followers are the Duggar Family.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ssault-lawsuit-bill-gothard-article-1.2488543

 

[escapegoat]

Also, for the record, I know people who made it to adulthood thinking that even a sip of the demon liquor was tempting the Devil too much, which is why that particular example came to mind. It's weird, but it happens. Or it did 20 years ago. And "home church" has gotten more steam since then. Some of these people are home schooled and home churched. Because the Churches aren't crazy enough for them. Or because the youth groups are too full of the wrong sort. Or because that is what the ancient Christians did, so that is the way it should be done now. Etc.

 

[Steve Mayers]

Also, for the record, I know people who made it to adulthood thinking that even a sip of the demon liquor was tempting the Devil too much, which is why that particular example came to mind. It's weird, but it happens. Or it did 20 years ago. And "home church" has gotten more steam since then. Some of these people are home schooled and home churched. Because the Churches aren't crazy enough for them. Or because the youth groups are too full of the wrong sort. Or because that is what the ancient Christians did, so that is the way it should be done now. Etc.

From what I understand a lot people in this movement believe that a woman dressed too "revealing" (like wearing pants) is tempting as all men can't control their sexual urges. Or for that matter kissing before marriage is a sin.

 

[Caesare]

Also, for the record, I know people who made it to adulthood thinking that even a sip of the demon liquor was tempting the Devil too much,

Did these people grow up and talk about 9 year old's being violated often or is that just you?

 

[escapegoat]

No, no. You 100% correct. I am terribly sorry that I contradicted your opinion. Pensacola Christian College is actually a covert party school full of people who were totally not indoctrinated in cults, and I am obsessed with pedophilia, because I happen to know anything about the ATI. You are sooo smart and perceptive. You should give yourself a nice little pat on the back.

 

[Caesare]

No, no. You 100% correct. I am terribly sorry that I contradicted your opinion. Pensacola Christian College is actually a covert party school full of people who were totally not indoctrinated in cults, and I am obsessed with pedophilia, because I happen to know anything about the ATI.

Good, I'm glad we got that straight.

You 100% correct. I am terribly sorry that I contradicted your opinion. Pensacola Christian College is actually a covert party school full of people who were totally not indoctrinated in cults

And I'm not saying that they aren't btw, I would just feel like an ass if I judged a group of adults like they were children. There are people that have much worse experiences as children and turn out to be relatively well adjusted. I don't know anyone home-schooled, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't drooling retards when they finally get to college.

I knew this one chick that went to a high school that was kinda bogus like that. It was an ultra small, fundamentalist Christian Academy that still used corporal punishment. She was cool though, did the same things people did her age, though to be fair, she wasn't home schooled like you were talking about.

 

[escapegoat]

I don't think it makes anyone a drooling knuckle dragger to have parents that were in a cult (or that ran their own mini cult.) Most people grow up a TON, culty or not, between 18 and 22. It's not anyone's fault they have derpy religious parents. It's not like you get to pick them.

 

[Android raptor]

I've also know quite a few people who had crazy fundie parents, and a lot of them had incredibly sheltered views of the world until they were away from their parents and religious schools. It doesn't make them stupid or exceptional, just a product of their circumstances.

And fundies reacting inappropriately to child abuse is unfortunately a thing that happens. The Duggars are an infamous example, but certainly far from the only one out there.

The issue isn't people being religious, it's taking that religion to extremes and raising their kids in a borderline (if not flat out) cult setting.

 

[heymate]

4. Why did God let it happen?

This makes me so mad. "Durr, God made you get raped because you wore a V-neck that showed a millimeter of cleavage." UGHHH.

 

[Steve Mayers]

This makes me so mad. "Durr, God made you get raped because you wore a V-neck that showed a millimeter of cleavage." UGHHH.

Gothard's ATI cult preaches that men have uncontrollable sex drives that women must control. And if a man acts inapporiately towards a woman it's the woman's fault. Here's an article that sums up a woman's experience growing up in this cult. http://www.salon.com/2015/05/28/i_c...church_and_the_abuse_scandal_doesnt_shock_me/

Like any system of abuse, ATI relies on control to maintain its power, and a critical component of that power is the total indoctrination of its members through its homeschool curriculum. The so-called “Wisdom Booklets” that form the backbone of ATI children’s educations contain more Bible verses than they do information. Particularly lacking, in a religious sect so obsessed with reproduction, is any kind of sex education. This is especially true for young women, who receive very little sex education because the church teaches us that women do not have sex drives. However, the opposite is believed of men: ATI teaches that men have nearly uncontrollable sex drives ready to erupt at the mere sight of a pant leg or a perm. To illustrate this point: ATI families are encouraged to maintain a “no computer” rule for their sons, but not their daughters. Gothard also encouraged men to turn toward the wall when dining at restaurants so as not to be “tempted” by a waitress or a stray attractive woman.

Not that our supposed lack of sex drive absolved us from sexual responsibility. ATI taught us that it is our job to keep men’s desires from erupting into lust or sexual activity. We were taught that it was our sin if we “cause a man to lust after us.” I spent many nights as an early-developed teenager crying and begging God to take away my large breasts, because I noticed men’s eyes had begun to linger on me during church. Modesty wasn’t only about dress, it was also about behavior. Women were taught from a very young age that they are to be submissive in all things: allowing men to open doors for us (even to get out of a car), never initiating conversation with a man and never correcting a man when he was wrong. Essentially, a good ATI woman is sweet, silent, and obedient.

 

[Android raptor]

Salon may be about as reliable as breitbart, but given what I know about fundies it wouldn't surprise me if that article was more or less accurate. The extreme versions of Christianity have way more in common with the extreme versions of Islam than they'd likely care to admit.

 

[Caesare]

Salon may be about as reliable as breitbart, but given what I know about fundies it wouldn't surprise me if that article was more or less accurate. The extreme versions of Christianity have way more in common with the extreme versions of Islam than they'd likely care to admit.

They may well be like Islam, the point I'm making is that their radical vision of religion isn't sanctioned by the government. And as far as that article goes, it wasn't terrible but the writer doesn't get into the fact that she was an adult when she went to school there, and all the rules and discipline they have in the school doesn't mean a thing when you leave the campus.

And there is that whole matter of accreditation. She and her parent's were aware that the school wasn't accredited when they forked over their money and sent her there, so all the blame is on them and not the school.

I don't think it makes anyone a drooling knuckle dragger to have parents that were in a cult (or that ran their own mini cult.) Most people grow up a TON, culty or not, between 18 and 22. It's not anyone's fault they have derpy religious parents. It's not like you get to pick them.

If the parents were all that controlling, they wouldn't send their kids away to college in the first place. I don't know why they spend their money on a school like this but I'm guessing it may have something to do with the rising cost of traditional universities coupled with the high rate of students that don't finish at these traditional schools.

Maybe they believe that this is at least in part due to the atmosphere of these universities being more conducive to festivity rather than education. They might not want to throw down so much money to a school that will condone these activities and would rather invest in a school that actively seeks to curtail alcohol.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

They may well be like Islam, the point I'm making is that their radical vision of religion isn't sanctioned by the government. And as far as that article goes, it wasn't terrible but the writer doesn't get into the fact that she was an adult when she went to school there, and all the rules and discipline they have in the school doesn't mean a thing when you leave the campus.

And there is that whole matter of accreditation. She and her parent's were aware that the school wasn't accredited when they forked over their money and sent her there, so all the blame is on them and not the school.



If the parents were all that controlling, they wouldn't send their kids away to college in the first place. I don't know why they spend their money on a school like this but I'm guessing it may have something to do with the rising cost of traditional universities coupled with the high rate of students that don't finish at these traditional schools.

Maybe they believe that this is at least in part due to the atmosphere of these universities being more conducive to festivity rather than education. They might not want to throw down so much money to a school that will condone these activities and would rather invest in a school that actively seeks to curtail alcohol.

Sorry, pal, my ability to extend the benefit of the doubt doesn't reach that far. You seem a whole lot like you're just white-knighting this school for some reason. If I had to guess, its because you're a conservative Christian who's embarrassed at this shitshow and want to hold it at arm's length.

 

[Caesare]

Sorry, pal, my ability to extend the benefit of the doubt doesn't reach that far. You seem a whole lot like you're just white-knighting this school for some reason. If I had to guess, its because you're a conservative Christian who's embarrassed at this shitshow and want to hold it at arm's length.

Lol, its a college. These are all adults, they could just not go there if its that bad.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

Lol, its a college. These are all adults, they could just not go there if its that bad.

Ah, yes, because the mere act of turning 18 is enough to break the conditioning.