Cities Skylines (1&2), SimCity 4, city simulators - sperg about simulations that include or don't include niggers

[Xarpho's Return]

So apparently some Cities Skylines II screenshots leaked and for vanilla, it doesn't look all that bad. I'm so burned out by C:S 1 that I have little confidence it will be fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TarMKqhDGwU

 

[Spud]

So apparently some Cities Skylines II screenshots leaked and for vanilla, it doesn't look all that bad. I'm so burned out by C:S 1 that I have little confidence it will be fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TarMKqhDGwU

I wonder how many DLC Packs will it take that game to get to that point?

 

[Xarpho's Return]

I wonder how many DLC Packs will it take that game to get to that point?

DLCs won't fix anything that's broken in base game.

In C:S's case, the base game sucked, and the DLCs just added bullshit gimmicks, even if fundamentally they were interesting ideas (Campus and Airports in particular could've been really well-done DLCs that actually focused on the major economic and physical size angles that campuses and airports bring to cities, but they weren't).

In SimCity 4's case, the base game was flawed but far better than C:S, but Rush Hour actually fixed a lot of the biggest problems, and had a framework that allowed some extra stuff.

C:SII also has so little PR that it's difficult to gauge what the company thinks of the previous game. If they said something along the lines of "Everyone loved Cities: Skylines so much, here's more of the same!", then I'd be worried. If they said something along the lines of "Cities: Skylines was a good game, BUT (blah blah blah) so we went under the hood and reworked it" then I'd feel a bit more confident.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

As stated before, it needs more city management and less utopia sandbox. Actual failure conditions. CS doesn't feel like a game.

 

[Romeo]

The trailer for Cities: Skylines II is out. Looks really compelling, as everything looks less cartoonish compared to the first one. Game comes out on October 24, 2023. The only thing that annoys me is the lighting on the buildings in the night, which looks very off.

Link (if TOR is gay): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX9YWu5wkGg
Archive: https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/MX9YWu5wkGg

---

Apparently the city in the trailer above is made by one of the Cities: Skylines YouTubers two dollars twenty, who I think built another city for a DLC pack that the devs used in their trailer in the first Cities: Skylines game.

Link (if TOR is gay): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUHecMSgPaM
Archive: https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/mUHecMSgPaM

 

[Xarpho's Return]

The trailer for Cities: Skylines II is out. Looks really compelling, as everything looks less cartoonish compared to the first one. Game comes out on October 24, 2023. The only thing that annoys me is the lighting on the buildings in the night, which looks very off.

Link (if TOR is gay): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX9YWu5wkGg
Archive: https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/MX9YWu5wkGg

---

Apparently the city in the trailer above is made by one of the Cities: Skylines YouTubers two dollars twenty, who I think built another city for a DLC pack that the devs used in their trailer in the first Cities: Skylines game.

Link (if TOR is gay): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUHecMSgPaM
Archive: https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/mUHecMSgPaM

It's gonna be a disappointment. Unless they have some really amazing under-the-hood enhancements it's just a minor bump in graphics from C:S (very minor, everything still looks like plastic), same "grid to the road" (about a minute in), same squished scale, same UI.

I can't trust the word of Cities: Skylines players about how good it is. Tell me that "it's more like SimCity 4" and I'll be more interested.

 

[ATandTism]

It's gonna be a disappointment. Unless they have some really amazing under-the-hood enhancements it's just a minor bump in graphics from C:S (very minor, everything still looks like plastic), same "grid to the road" (about a minute in), same squished scale, same UI.

I can't trust the word of Cities: Skylines players about how good it is. Tell me that "it's more like SimCity 4" and I'll be more interested.

It's a modern Paradox game. CS2 will be the base features of 1 with most of the fun stuff stripped away to re-sell you as DLC. They might add one new thing like lighting or hype up some minor change to the traffic system since that is what people harp on the most.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

It's a modern Paradox game. CS2 will be the base features of 1 with most of the fun stuff stripped away to re-sell you as DLC. They might add one new thing like lighting or hype up some minor change to the traffic system since that is what people harp on the most.

None of the DLCs of C:S looked especially interesting, mostly how they were implemented. Stuff like so:

Parklife:
what I wanted - focus on rural areas, nature, and the quality of life
what I got - misc. props to plop down, a shitty knockoff of RCT

Industries:
what I wanted - way to base your city around specific industries and see what comes up (petrochemicals, high-tech, media, etc.)
what I got - a really shitty knockoff of Factorio and similar games

Campus:
what I wanted - simulation of a university campus as a major economic engine and all the unique problems it brings
what I got - campus buildings, a few gimmicks

DLCs aren't inherently a bad idea and could've been awesome if done correctly. They just sucked, like the base game.

 

[Midwit]

DLCs aren't inherently a bad idea and could've been awesome if done correctly.

That's the Paradox model, make a DLC that sounds really cool but then completely underdeliver on the expectation. Industries would've been great if you could deliver goods using anything other than trucks, hopefully the CS2 Industry DLC will actually figure that out and then it might actually be good.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

None of the DLCs of C:S looked especially interesting, mostly how they were implemented. Stuff like so:

Parklife:
what I wanted - focus on rural areas, nature, and the quality of life
what I got - misc. props to plop down, a shitty knockoff of RCT

Industries:
what I wanted - way to base your city around specific industries and see what comes up (petrochemicals, high-tech, media, etc.)
what I got - a really shitty knockoff of Factorio and similar games

Campus:
what I wanted - simulation of a university campus as a major economic engine and all the unique problems it brings
what I got - campus buildings, a few gimmicks

DLCs aren't inherently a bad idea and could've been awesome if done correctly. They just sucked, like the base game.

University Tycoon/Planet University is a really obvious premise for a game, but nobody has made it except for some REALLY shitty wizardshit games.

 

[Snekposter]

That's the Paradox model, make a DLC that sounds really cool but then completely underdeliver on the expectation. Industries would've been great if you could deliver goods using anything other than trucks, hopefully the CS2 Industry DLC will actually figure that out and then it might actually be good.

There is nothing I despise so much in Cities: Skylines as the use of cargo trucks for literally everything. Place warehouses by your cargo trains and hope people deliver that way? NOPE, trucks everywhere. Before long your cities fill up with nothing but delivery trucks hauling shit in and out of your industrial district, especially since FOR SOME FUCKING REASON nobody ever, ever uses any of the alternate off-ramps you can try and build, instead shoving themselves into the backed-up city center like goddamn lemmings.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

There is nothing I despise so much in Cities: Skylines as the use of cargo trucks for literally everything. Place warehouses by your cargo trains and hope people deliver that way? NOPE, trucks everywhere. Before long your cities fill up with nothing but delivery trucks hauling shit in and out of your industrial district, especially since FOR SOME FUCKING REASON nobody ever, ever uses any of the alternate off-ramps you can try and build, instead shoving themselves into the backed-up city center like goddamn lemmings.

god bless american infrastructure and truck drivers

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Perhaps this already exists, but I'd like to see someone make a city-builder where the city already exists with history (generated in in a way that makes sense) and the focus is on historical restoration and urban renewal. Cleaning out blight and trying to save buildings in a way that's still profitable (transform into tourism industry) while working within political constraints.

"Winning" at that basically means pulling off a successful Charleston or Savannah.

 

[Night Crawler]

Try Theotown. It's about as close to an old school Sim City game as you can probably get. I bought it on Steam a while back.

 

[ZMOT]

Perhaps this already exists, but I'd like to see someone make a city-builder where the city already exists with history (generated in in a way that makes sense) and the focus is on historical restoration and urban renewal. Cleaning out blight and trying to save buildings in a way that's still profitable (transform into tourism industry) while working within political constraints.

"Winning" at that basically means pulling off a successful Charleston or Savannah.

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/nextfest?tab=3

scroll down to city building & settlement. something like that might be in there. terra nil for example had the demo there too.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

There is nothing I despise so much in Cities: Skylines as the use of cargo trucks for literally everything. Place warehouses by your cargo trains and hope people deliver that way? NOPE, trucks everywhere. Before long your cities fill up with nothing but delivery trucks hauling shit in and out of your industrial district, especially since FOR SOME FUCKING REASON nobody ever, ever uses any of the alternate off-ramps you can try and build, instead shoving themselves into the backed-up city center like goddamn lemmings.

while not excusable for the base game, there is a mod that lets you set traffic rules that can probably help with that.

 

[Snekposter]

while not excusable for the base game, there is a mod that lets you set traffic rules that can probably help with that.

I've tried to use it and its an even more confusing mess than C:S itself is.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

I've tried to use it and its an even more confusing mess than C:S itself is.

At least NAM tries to implement more user-friendly features. The first versions added a feature to actually fix a bug while providing some additional, non-essential tools based on existing stuff (ground light rail based on the elevated versions, viaducts based on bridges, etc.)

As for Cities Skylines II I'm looking at the dev diaries for new AI and it seems like 2 steps forward, one step back.

Pathfinding also accounts for the traveler's age group. For teens the most important factor is Money: they seek out cheap options when traveling, be it the means of transportation or parking behavior. Adults value Time, so the quickest route is usually the best for them. And Seniors prefer a high Comfort level. As long as the Comfort cost is small, seniors tend to choose that option.
(...)
Money comes into pathfinding choices in the form of fuel usage and potential parking fees. Citizens weigh travel and parking costs and compare them to other travel options as well as walking to see which option is quick, comfortable, and affordable.

The problem is generally that's not how it works in real life. The simulation assumes that young people will prefer "being cheap" so they avoid cars, which isn't true in real life, and puts the onus on more on age rather than wealth level, which isn't mentioned, and seems to be a backdoor way to force more transit use.

If parking is more expensive somewhere, the options are not "I'll take transit" because that's more trouble than it's worth, in reality you have two options:
1. Settle for less.
2. Eat shit.

"Settle for less" would be stuff that's closer if lower quality. If we were talking about 1980s and 1990s young people behavior (not so much now) they'd want the biggest mall in town, but have to settle for the closer one, which doesn't have as trendy stores or places to eat...and usually public transit-connected malls tend to bring in all sorts of riff-raff. DeadMalls.com describes how Prestonwood Town Center, an upscale, popular mall in North Dallas got connected into the public transit system and "kids from other parts of Dallas who looked very tough and would walk very slowly and would spread out over the entire walking space so that it was intimidating to try to get around them. It's hard to believe that kids would ride the bus for an hour to hang out at a mall and not even shop, but they did". Before you start playing Guess the Race, on the same page it mentions "typically punk rock mallrats in leather jackets and bright green hair". So even if these looked like more like the villains from an 1980s afterschool special and not the usual suspects, the result was the same--the mall suffered from extensive shoplifting and ended up closing by 2001. It went from being a five department store mall with an ice rink and a Neiman Marcus to being a strip center with a Walmart. But I digress. If there's a place with inconvenient parking or whatever, you probably don't go, unless you have to (one-of-a-kind experiences, etc.). And that's thing...most people, even working class, aren't going to go out of their way to use public transit if they can avoid it. You just take it.

Here's where the retarded part is:

Resource transportation is affected by the length of the route as distance increases the costs, so companies try to ship cargo as close as possible to increase their own profit margin. Transporting resources and goods out of the city is costly and can greatly decrease the profitability of companies.

The picture they showed was a cargo shipping port. This shows how the devs don't understand fixed costs versus variable costs. The inherent fixed costs of trains or ocean freight is very high, but the variable costs are not that bad. Under this dumb model, it assumes that a train taking a small amount of cargo across town is far cheaper than a train carrying freight across the country. That's why they have generally trucks for shorter/smaller routes and trains for longer/heavier loads because the fixed costs are that high but once you're out and moving on the rails, the price per mile drops dramatically.

This is very bad if you were hoping for a real freight railroad system.

 

[ZMOT]

anyone tried https://store.steampowered.com/app/290100/Bulwark_Falconeer_Chronicles/ ?

seen it during next fest, and the dev seems to keep the demo up and updated to reflect development (and gather feedback). it's not a really a city simulator but this is probably the most fitting thread

This is very bad if you were hoping for a real freight railroad system.

I think part of it is they want to keep it simplified (maybe too much) so more people than just us autists can play it - it certainly worked for the first skylines.

what I'm more interesting in if they are smart enough to open up those numbers. defaults can be whatever they want, but if they can be easily modded, thus in turn casuals can have their city designer while autists can go all out, all buying the same game in the end, that's where get to good business sense.

 

[StacticShock]

Tell me that "it's more like SimCity 4" and I'll be more interested.

isn't literally the same shit people have been saying about C:S1?
also i'm not surprised wtth SC2013, it was a predictable movement from EA as 2013~2015 was the boom of online gaems.
still a more management city sim than heavily modded SC1 pretends to be.
why aven colony gone without mention to this day? it was a okayish anno-tier game.

Try Theotown. It's about as close to an old school Sim City game as you can probably get. I bought it on Steam a while back.

even if it has mods it doesn't remove the real currency diamond purchases and DLC bundles, i'd rather play SC4 because i can mod shit for free innit.