US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
Making it more oriented towards QAnon is gonna make the second coming of 8chan twice as exceptional as it was before, with it being more focused towards extreme right-wing politics, it kills off whatever sane and non-political user base it once had.
QAnon is not right-wing. It's conservative.
 
I think some kind of Q imageboard could work, a little bit of containment for all the schizo boomers who eat up every last bit of it. I'm certain that the dude behind Q was a genius who saw how many people actually got super into that dumb /pol/ prophecy from like 2015 and went full out with it. It's easy to say shit that can be broadly interpreted, then people who want to believe will connect the dots for you.
That said, this shit won't work if it is associated with the people who were behind 8chan. All the autistic extremists present before will be back day one, but they aren't going to be there to discuss politics or say nigger or whatever. They will be actively flaunting the rules and shitposting. Hell, people who were never on 8chan will be there to fuck around as well, because Qtards are so funny to fuck with. No moderation team will be able to put up with an onslaught of pissed off 8chan autists who want revenge for their site, because determined autists do not give up. Every single board on the site will end up becoming 8/pol/ for so long as the website stays online. Of course, this is all assuming this will actually happen. Hotwheels wanted 8chan shut down, after all.
 
Is that not already the case or am I missing something?

We're not quite there yet, but we're pretty much looking down the barrel of it. I'd say we're close.

QAnon is not right-wing. It's conservative.

QAnon is not conservative, its batshit insane.

So none of the niche boards are coming back, just that dumb Qanon shit. Fuck.

Yeah, this sucks. Oh well.
 
So none of the niche boards are coming back, just that dumb Qanon shit. Fuck.
Who the fuck knows.
The Qtards are mostly harmless retarded boomers. Boomers don't run ad blockers. So I am not surprised they want to try and keep that demo.
 

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Conservatism generally falls under the right side of the political spectrum, does it not? Perhaps me referring to them as 'extreme right-wing' and not being more specifc was probably a poor choice in wording on my part, my bad.
Conservatism is just liberalism + 10-20 years. Conservatives are entirely without principle.

Should be interesting to see how many more mob bosses get killed by QAnon boomers and how many of those get blamed on 8chan.
 
Does this mean the long chain of /cow/ boards in finally put out pasture? End of an era.

Nah, /cow/ is still going on. They have a new chan board called Julay World or something.

Not gonna lie, the non-political boards were actually pretty nice places to visit (esp the anime oriented ones), and I genuinely believe that a lot of new users (like myself) came here because of /cow/, even if it was filled with nothing but a-loggers. A big reason as to why 8chan can get pretty autistic (ex a-logging from /cow/) is because of the fact that everyone is anonymous. With no alias to be held accountable to, you basically have free range to say as much stupid shit as possible without being considered a laughing stock by the rest of the community.

Making it more oriented towards QAnon is gonna make the second coming of 8chan twice as exceptional as it was before, with it being more focused towards extreme right-wing politics, it kills off whatever sane and non-political user base it once had.

True. I think whoever decided to bring back a new variant of 8chan that only caters to the QAnon and /pol/ crowds is the kind of person who is doing it with the explicit goal of pissing off SJW's and corporate normies. It's a publicity stunt.

So none of the niche boards are coming back, just that dumb Qanon shit. Fuck.

I think a lot of the niche boards are already being held on the same bunker site that now hosts /cow/

In addition to /cow/, they've also got new variants of /a/ and /tg/, a fanfic board, all sorts of weird hentai boards, and even regional boards as well.
 
I think a lot of the niche boards are already being held on the same bunker site that now hosts /cow/

In addition to /cow/, they've also got new variants of /a/ and /tg/, a fanfic board, all sorts of weird hentai boards, and even regional boards as well.
One would have to be insane to post on Bunkerchan. The owner's entirely in bed with Pedowheels and his bosses at the ADL.
 
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One would have to be insane to post on Bunkerchan. The owner's entirely in bed with Pedowheels and his bosses at the ADL.

Eh, I don't give a fuck about /pol/ or any of the other political boards on Julay World or whatever. The only boards I gave a shit about on 8chan were /y2k/ and /tg/, and I'd occasionally lurk /cow/ once in a while for old time's sake.
 
I think having a webring of smaller sites is a much better situation, although all I care about is /film/.
It also sucks /egy/ is gone especially since the political situation there is getting stranger. I bet both the edgyptian authorities and the Islamists are celebrating the death of 8chan.


mostly going to church
I was not surprised at all by Fredrick being drawn to Catholicism. I’ve know several people with terrible genetic or chronic health conditions who were hardcore Catholics. Catholicism is really into meaningful suffering, it fetishizes it almost. Those who suffer (and keep the Faith) are the most are the most holy and deserving of god’s favor.

I’m sure having a wife who is a serious catholic helps a lot too. But part of having a faithful catholic wife is her expecting to have babies, lots of babies probably. He mentioned in that interview they were thinking of having a baby. Given Fred’s genetic condition the only way to ensure his child wouldn’t have his condition is by doing IVF, genetically testing the embryos and discarding any with brittle bone disease.

In the ultimate catch-22 the Catholic Church is totally against IVF, much less genetic testing of embryos. His catholic conversion could lead him to do the one thing he swore he’d never do, end up passing his disease to his child.
 
I was not surprised at all by Fredrick being drawn to Catholicism. I’ve know several people with terrible genetic or chronic health conditions who were hardcore Catholics. Catholicism is really into meaningful suffering, it fetishizes it almost. Those who suffer (and keep the Faith) are the most are the most holy and deserving of god’s favor.

I’m sure having a wife who is a serious catholic helps a lot too. But part of having a faithful catholic wife is her expecting to have babies, lots of babies probably. He mentioned in that interview they were thinking of having a baby. Given Fred’s genetic condition the only way to ensure his child wouldn’t have his condition is by doing IVF, genetically testing the embryos and discarding any with brittle bone disease.

In the ultimate catch-22 the Catholic Church is totally against IVF, much less genetic testing of embryos. His catholic conversion could lead him to do the one thing he swore he’d never do, end up passing his disease to his child.
Yeah, he's not a Catholic though. He became a hardshell Baptist apparently because the Catholics are too soft on the homos.
https://twitter.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/958202198118211584
https://twitter.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/936795494528847873
 
Yeah, he's not a Catholic though. He became a hardshell Baptist apparently because the Catholics are too soft on the homos.
https://twitter.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/958202198118211584
https://twitter.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/936795494528847873

I stand corrected, maybe the article I was reading mistranslated Catholic for Christian. Given the Philippines is a devoutly Catholic country I figured his wife would be Catholic too.

I have no idea why he’d be drawn to a hardshell Baptist denomination unless he was thinking of going all Fred Phelps with his fag hating.
 
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