US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
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Also Ron is pretty good at singing.
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Reactions: L'Homme de la Lune
I guess you're eventually going to have the 'corporate' internet, sanitized, approved for your use, boring as fuck and then the 'underground' which will exist as a hodge podge, word of mouth communities, small circular and insular, but generally isolated and harder for mainstream news and culture to comprehend, not reliant on the 'corporate' side so its harder to shut down.

So basically the "AOL walled garden versus real internet" circa mid-nineties.

That's good. Whatever the "real internet" becomes, it needs to stay complicated enough to access that niggerfaggot leftists, moralfaggot rightists, "people" living in the third world, and those with theater degrees can't get there. The only problem is how much good (or at least laughable) content will disappear during the transition.
 
I was not surprised at all by Fredrick being drawn to Catholicism. I’ve know several people with terrible genetic or chronic health conditions who were hardcore Catholics. Catholicism is really into meaningful suffering, it fetishizes it almost. Those who suffer (and keep the Faith) are the most are the most holy and deserving of god’s favor.

I’m sure having a wife who is a serious catholic helps a lot too. But part of having a faithful catholic wife is her expecting to have babies, lots of babies probably. He mentioned in that interview they were thinking of having a baby. Given Fred’s genetic condition the only way to ensure his child wouldn’t have his condition is by doing IVF, genetically testing the embryos and discarding any with brittle bone disease.

In the ultimate catch-22 the Catholic Church is totally against IVF, much less genetic testing of embryos. His catholic conversion could lead him to do the one thing he swore he’d never do, end up passing his disease to his child.


Or he'll just miraculously have a black child with large genitalia
 
According to @copypaste, the current CEO of Jim's hosting company (N. T. Tech) met with him and said 8chan is now a defunct entity. Subsequent messages indicate they will return it as a board more specifically catering to #QAnon.

I still can't tell if qanon is an astroturfed glow in the dark op, or a troll with a legitimate boomer cult following.
Either way, does jim think thats actually gonna work? What a waste of time.
 
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This sets a terrible precedent. 8chan is a total shithole, the reason why it came into existence was to be an edgier version of one of the edgiest communities around. The Daily Stormer being removed from their service was the first step down a dark path, people said it would stop there because the DS was the only time it would happen.

I hate 8chan but I hope that weird fuck Jim finds a new host
Funny, you seem to be speaking about /pol/ alone. /a/ and /tech/ were perfectly fine boards.
 
Man, i just wanted to talk about anime and vidya without getting banned for posting nipples or shitting on some exceptional individual.
Why did it all end up like this? Why must everything i enjoy turn to shit? I'm sick of the internet at this point.

No one cared who you were until you picked up the puzzle piece.
 
Fred is a fat crippled piece of shit and deserves to choke to death on his Jolly Chicken Joy meal at lunch time. Still unsure why Jewsh even gives the cripple any of his time considering he threw him under the bus immediately after Jewsh pissed off pig fucker jimbo.

the highlight of the cripples life has been buying lady drinks in Padre Burgos street
 
How can Stormfront and KF keep running while 8ch is not?
 
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Reactions: Dork Of Ages
8pol has sucked for a while. Kamphy (former board owner) made sure it was a nofun echo chamber that wasn't even good for memes, while 4chan was turning their /pol/ into a hugbox. The only board worth saving on 8 was their /v/ forum, and they have already saved themselves

You would get banned for routine shitposting of the most innocuous kind. /leftypol/ was just as bad if not worse. It would have been worse if the mods weren't stoned all the time.
 
Funny, you seem to be speaking about /pol/ alone. /a/ and /tech/ were perfectly fine boards.
one was dead the other was run by a literal grammar nazi bot and resetera moderation (where you had to wonder who was top and who was bottom) while actively shitting up other boards.

/pol/ was also much less of an issue on 8 than on 4, and with the latter it's mostly people screeching about it than actual /pol/ posting.
 
Fred is a fat crippled piece of shit and deserves to choke to death on his Jolly Chicken Joy meal at lunch time. Still unsure why Jewsh even gives the cripple any of his time considering he threw him under the bus immediately after Jewsh pissed off pig fucker jimbo.
If Josh doesn't blame him, I'm inclined to take him at his word. We don't know the whole story.
 
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