US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 

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i wouldn't be surprised they move over to what daily stormer uses and we'll probably will be doing the same as well at some point
 
The knives were out for 8chan and the idiots running it did it to themselves tbqh
Knives are out for every site that hosts "wrongthink", with Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube cleaning house and wiping content, and there are many, many crazy people in high places that would like to see Kiwi Farms vanish. Almost all of the right-leaning Internet personalities (including Null, Ralph, Dick, and Metokur, possibly others) agree that things are changing and changing fast.
 
Again, if Jim Watkins wants to save 8chan without having to move to another host, he should just give /pol/ and /leftypol/ the axe, since those boards have the kind of userbase who will easily find another place to host their discussion.

/pol/ is the main source of the negative press, but if Jim axed /pol/ without getting rid of its left-wing equivalent, you know there would be hordes of Kekistanis up in arms and screaming that 8chan went "woke"
Not a good solution IMO. /leftypol/ is smaller and more socially cohesive than /pol/, has been attacked for most of its existence anyway, and has Bunkerchan and a shit ton of troon-infested Discords to fall back on, so if it gets axed it's gonna be hurt much less severely than its righty equivalent. If id/pol/ goes down I could see its userbase darting every which way like a nest of cockroaches that just got a bowling ball dropped on it; some are gonna go to stormfront, some are gonna go back to halfchan, some are gonna go to even more obscure imageboards to wallow in their own shit, and a select few might even flee to this very site (God forbid).

They could also just move to different boards on the same site. 8/r9k/ is basically /pol/ already, but for whining about the niggers who work at the same 7-11 instead the niggers who are immigrating to their country. There's also /polpol/ and /fascist/, which are meant to be even more cancerous than the original board but will no doubt mellow out with the swarm of refugees (the irony will be lost on them).
 
Knives are out for every site that hosts "wrongthink", with Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube cleaning house and wiping content, and there are many, many crazy people in high places that would like to see Kiwi Farms vanish. Almost all of the right-leaning Internet personalities (including Null, Ralph, Dick, and Metokur, possibly others) agree that things are changing and changing fast.
It's unfortunate, but people like Jim and sites like Kiwi are pretty much the outliers when it comes to free speech on the internet these days and it's sad to see it be the case. And as much as I would love to see this trend of overprotectiveness peter out like the fundimentalist moral groups of the 80s/early 90s did. I don't see that happening any time soon if at all.

So until the unlikely day when people realize "Man we were stupid, what's the next trend we can drag into the bowels of the Earth?", we might as well just keep our guards up and hope that worst doesn't come to worse.
 
So now it will be harder for intel services to monitor for deranged lunatics, since they'll all scatter and clique up in the dark bits of the net.

The feds were pretty embedded in 8ch anyway to the point they'd even submit screen caps in search warrant affidavits with their own glowposts and (You)s completely visible.
 
Literally worse than ISIS lolView attachment 876451
Intelligence Agencies want those websites to stay up so it's easier to keep track of Islamists, I remember back in 2015 this guy I knew in cyber intel ranting about how Anonymous (faggots) is making their job harder trying to track and trace islamists and isis members by trying to get them removed from Twitter.

Remember, the glow in the darks leveled a major Isis HQ simply from a lowly guard posting a selfie on twitter.
 
"Cloudfare axes 8chan 9-4-2019"
As soon as i read that title i thought of this.
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"Get away from that 8chan, I'm cuttin' it down, right now!"
 
Not a good solution IMO. /leftypol/ is smaller and more socially cohesive than /pol/, has been attacked for most of its existence anyway, and has Bunkerchan and a shit ton of troon-infested Discords to fall back on, so if it gets axed it's gonna be hurt much less severely than its righty equivalent.

Pretty much that.

1564975276522.png
 
So now it will be harder for intel services to monitor for deranged lunatics, since they'll all scatter and clique up in the dark bits of the net.

Apparently it never occurs to any of these geniuses that if alphabet agencies wanted websites - including us - taken down, they would be.
 
The feds were pretty embedded in 8ch anyway to the point they'd even submit screen caps in search warrant affidavits with their own glowposts and (You)s completely visible.
Didn't they say they were reading the El Paso Shooter's manifesto before he even fired a shot?

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I'm surprised at how reasonable Hacker News is on this issue. They're are ususlly such whiny sjw faggots about these things. Maybe they're starting to feel the free speech burn now, too? Hard not to see the writing k the wall: the 90s dream of internet utopia has r become the scariest and most repressive dystopia.
 
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I still remember after the Daily Stormer saga, some techies I knew were being apologists for Cloudflare after the whole "I woke up in a bad mood and decided to kick them off the internet" outburst their CEO had. They were saying things like "oh it's only this one website, they won't do it again." Turns out my fears were right.

8chan might be a dying site, but after Christchurch they were officially on everyone's crosshairs, from the fedposting incident to hit pieces after the attack to some countries blocking them. Even before Christchurch, they were already being targeted hard with the whole Google delisting and Dan Olson's CP sting article attempt. They were one more "subscribe to pewdiepie" away from becoming the next censorship target even though other websites used by the shooters can get free passes for being mainstream websites merely being misused.

It's also a different kind of site than the Stormer is. The Stormer is an extremely slanted news blog while 8chan is just a light on moderation imageboard that's mainly only used to discuss topics that get shitcanned from 4chan or other websites. It's sending a message that it's going to be a lot harder to run your own discussion board unless you tard wrangle your userbase hard to the point where you're seen as a janny...you know just like what big tech companies do.

8chan's not a very good site at all. It's code sucks and mismanagement has driven a lot of posters away, but the fact it's being shutdown because of a mass shooter using the site to advertise his manifesto is a vastly different approach to the past. It highlights how vulnerable websites can be in this day and age if it's posters decide to commit crimes. I'd watch the aftermath of 8chan very closely because it could have chilling effects, far more than the Daily Stormer's deplatforming had.

BitMitigate, which Epik Domains now owns so I am not sure how that'll work out since the CEO of Epik likes to micro-manage the more undesirable sites he hosts e.g Gab.

Although they do still provide services to DailyStormer so maybe they've got themselves a new client.


Unless there's pressure from companies around them to cut service, I doubt they will. Reminder Cloudflare built their business up on deliberately and knowingly shielding illegal content so a competitor is going to build themselves up with this.
 
I remember back when /pol/ got a bunch of lefty youtubers taken down, they were shitting on their sister board for not being prudent and archiving all their videos. It's sad that shithole board is going to be okay, but also funny to see the tables turn as the site's resident stormfags cry about the end of the world. :story:

EDIT: Hotwheels has agreed to help the lefties migrate. The salt is gonna gush forth in droves.
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