US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
He said "Agents observed." He doesn't indicate the existence of a confidential informant. So either he committed perjury or he was the source of the document.
I don't really see the conflict between 'agents observed' the posts and the actual screenshots that are included not necessarily being originally produced by the agents. For all we know they didn't observe the original thread, and instead 'observed' the screenshots when someone else reposted them in another /pol/ thread after the original thread got deleted.

Obviously, IANAL, but I'm sure they could find a lawyer who would argue that it is not misleading for them to avoid mentioning whether they actually produced the screenshots. The FBI is an instrument of satanic evil, sure, but that doesn't mean that they are always running false flags, kicking down doors, and murdering people's kids. Sometimes they might just be lying by omission. They aren't going to get punished either way.
 
Oh good I'm glad internet censorship is getting progressively more horrifying by the day. Hopefully a bunch of Cloudflare competitors will get a boost in customers and nuke their monopoly. This strikes me as a bad business decision on their part, but what the fuck do I know, really?
They should identify which particular communications on 8chan "inspired" the shooter. It would be tragic if among his influences were some of the FBI/CIA assets who have been visibly glowing in the dark on the site while posting extremist rhetoric.

ETA: and it's back up again from one of my networks but not from another. I'd guess the DNS records are propagating.

Not sure whether they have any DDoS mitigation currently or if they're just on the net naked. If the latter, it probably won't be up long.
Yeah the way Cloudflare dropped them practically guaranteed this kind of downtime. Astonishingly unprofessional. It would not have been hard to give them 24h to move their DNS to another provider.
Unpopular opinion: Great! Fuck 8chan.
Garbage site full of dipshit turboautists who clap when users murder people. If you have any pretention that it's anything substantially more than that, you're delusional.
Anyone who just wants porn, anime or hobbyism discussion goes to 4chan because they don't care about censorship. Because there's nothing to be censored in a thread for posting pictures of model robots.

Kiwifarms won't be third down because Kiwifarms doesn't habitually reinforce violent crime commited by users. Kiwifarms users generally don't talk good on violent crime because if you do, everyone else gives you negative stickers and then ignores you, thus showing you you're dumb without derailing the conversation to give you attention. At worst you'll get called an autist and given a thread, but then you're not an accepted part of the site's userbase anymore. You've become the very target of ridicule it's based off.
8chan doesn't have that kind of negative reinforcement, and its core userbase is mostly refugees from 4chan's /pol/ who couldn't, or wouldn't, tone themselves down enough to lay low for awhile.
So of course it's filled with ever-escalating, autistically detached dumbasses who think videos of violence on the computer is like videogames, and so cheer it on. Nobody can en masse, quickly, and concisely tell them that's too far. Here we have Autistic and Islamic Content.

Shit people who like murder shouldn't be run off the internet wholesale, because freedom and the American Spirit and all that, but that's not what's happening here. Cloudfare just doesn't want to associate with a site where the primary userbase is an autistic cesspool that throws a party whenever one of their users kills someone and posts pics, and that's just fine with me.
Deriding some entirely private entity's decision to cut them off their non-essential and quickly replaced service is stupid. I'd make the same decision at this point. This is what, the 7th murder that 8chan's /pol/ has praised and sung about from on high in the last year? Fuck 'em. They're worse than Columbine fangirls on Tumblr.

But uhh, anyway, this is the internet apocalypse you guys, and WE'RE NEXT because lamenting trannys' dumb suicides is, in fact, comparably the same as consistant mass-murder fanboyism. And that conclusion requires no stretches of the imagination which take months, if not years, of Twitteratti politicization.
We all, of course, know Kiwifarms is INSTANTLY DEAD without Cloudfare. Evil Cloudfare is gonna kill the whole internet now! The end times are here!
This is incredibly retarded. You're making the enormous, impossibly naive mistake of assuming the Twitterati + Cloudflare are acting in good faith. They aren't. They host ISIS, but they dropped 8chan. Clearly the real, underlying issue at hand isn't about promoting violence. "Well we're virtuous so they won't come after us" is the sort of take you get from an eight year old.
 
And when those Cloudflare alternatives take on 8chan as a customer, someone finds out they're just renting most of their hardware and get their supplier to shut them down

I guess Voxility are part of globohomo now. It would be nice if they acted with same haste when script kiddies host C2s on their network. Last time I had to get one of their upstream Telia to null route before they would act, and even then they drag their feet.

8ch is hot potato now. They will just have to weather DDoS on their colos and try to build anycast network themselves if they want to survive big packet flood.
That's also the problem when you end up leasing out infrastructure from someone else (or have any "weak point" really). Blue checkmarks with connections will find out who you used and complain to them until you lose your hosting. BitMitigate's huge mistake was leasing services from someone else who could easily cave in, which is the biggest difference between a big tech company that owns everything and someone using their services to emulate big tech's services.
By its nature you cannot be totally independent on Internet. The best you can reasonably do is have your own hardware with lots of POPs and blend of Tier 1/2 transit, promiscuous peering policy and presence at major IXPs/MANs. Then you would have to be expelled from multiple data centers or dropped by multiple networks to be taken down. It also makes it much harder for normies to discover where your server is and who is provide bandwidth.
 
Yeah the way Cloudflare dropped them practically guaranteed this kind of downtime. Astonishingly unprofessional. It would not have been hard to give them 24h to move their DNS to another provider.
It was also quite possibly an illegal act, or at least one that opens them for damages.

11.2. Termination. Either Party may at any time terminate the Agreement, upon written notice to the other Party, if: (a) the other Party has materially breached any provision of the Agreement, and such breach remains uncured one (1) month after receipt of notice from the non-breaching Party specifying such breach in reasonable detail; or (b) the other Party becomes the subject of a petition in bankruptcy or any other proceeding relating to insolvency, receivership, liquidation or assignment for the benefit of creditors. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Cloudflare may temporarily suspend or terminate delivery of the Service to Customer upon notice, if Customer breaches Section 2.3(c) above and fails to cure such breach within 24 hours of receiving such notice or such other timeframe as Cloudflare may reasonably request.
2.3, the apparent sole exception to the 1-month delay, is about reselling Cloudflare's services at a premium. Not exactly relevant here. Unless this sudden dropping is actually following a 1-month notice (lol doubt it), and this quote from the blogpost:
We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.
reads like a confession. Italics in both prior quotes added by myself for emphasis.

Any actual lawyers got ideas on this?
 
Obviously, IANAL, but I'm sure they could find a lawyer who would argue that it is not misleading for them to avoid mentioning whether they actually produced the screenshots.

They could but they've had cases thrown out in the past for lying about the chain of custody of evidence they produce. It's perjury.
 
Honestly I just want 8chans /agdg/ to survive. The agdg threads on /v/ were very comfy even when the rest of /v/ was absolutely terrible. It was a close nit group, like an oasis of good in an ocean of piss. I couldn't give less of a shit about /pol/ and their ilk I just want to read shitposts about game development and programming. At least I have memories and screenshots saved if 8chan is down for good.
Hopefully at least they'll move to 4chan's /agdg/. Both generals are the best of their respective sites.
 
I don't really see the conflict between 'agents observed' the posts and the actual screenshots that are included not necessarily being originally produced by the agents. For all we know they didn't observe the original thread, and instead 'observed' the screenshots when someone else reposted them in another /pol/ thread after the original thread got deleted.

Obviously, IANAL, but I'm sure they could find a lawyer who would argue that it is not misleading for them to avoid mentioning whether they actually produced the screenshots. The FBI is an instrument of satanic evil, sure, but that doesn't mean that they are always running false flags, kicking down doors, and murdering people's kids. Sometimes they might just be lying by omission. They aren't going to get punished either way.
AnOminous is a lawyer, so I'll defer to his judgement. Also, there's the whole thing with (you)man trying to push a Russian conspiracy angle in their posts that lines up with the glowterati.
 
Hopefully at least they'll move to 4chan's /agdg/. Both generals are the best of their respective sites.
I doubt it. Many people there hated 4chan on principle.
Also I went and visited the 4chan agdg thread and I don't like it. It's a completely different atmosphere, which is to be expected when it's populated by two different groups of people.
 
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This exceptional individual is making a hashtag to remove bluecheckmark fron Twitter

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Yeah, you're gonna pressure corporations...by giving corporations more power. Flawess logic.

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Anything interesting about her? Because she seems like the kind of woke blue checkmark dummy that belong in the site
 
I've seen what happens when communities actually go down, and there's flaws in that.

Quite a few "less invested users" give up, but as the Daily Stormer has showed if a website really wants to stay online it will. Unsurprisingly because they bet on Tor and the bet paid off, they're still up despite reports stating otherwise. Hell, on their tor site they just published an article shitting on 8chan's handling of this by not waiting a few days for the outrage machine to cool down.
I support 8chan and blah blah blah, but this was really fucking stupid to switch to another service immediately after being banned from Cloudflare. We already know how the outrage machine works: when it is running, you deal with chain-bannings. Then they eventually forget about you and move on. If 8chan would have taken a vacation for even a couple days, the whole thing would have blown over and they could have signed up to Bitmitigate without issue.

If anything the main "less invested users" are just going to go back to 4chan's /pol/ board, despite the shilling and jannies that made 8chan's board still have activity. The real losers are the ones posting on the lesser known boards overshadowed by /pol/ including /tech/, /v/ (including /agdg/), and even /cow/.

They'll definitely go somewhere more obscure, but if this person thinks that would be recruits won't find any new site than they're dead wrong. Tor can be installed by even phoneposters and just like when protesters spray painted 8.8.8.8 on buildings, these obscure websites will in fact get passed around. Hell, an accelerationist would enjoy 8chan going down because that'd get people to use more censorship resistant "deep web" services like tor, decentralized services like zeronet or ipfs, and others. Now that they're being actively shut down, they can say that the powers that be are oppressing them and they won't be wrong either.
 
I honestly hope this isn't the end of 8chan. I enjoyed perusing the Fighting Game General every so often, and /co/ was very entertaining when they were storytiming Marvel NOW! bullshit, since they were honest and didn't take the corporate dicking like 4chan tends to.

I guess ED isn't on the shit list because its activity is on a smaller scale to KF.
 
I honestly hope this isn't the end of 8chan. I enjoyed perusing the Fighting Game General every so often, and /co/ was very entertaining when they were storytiming Marvel NOW! bullshit, since they were honest and didn't take the corporate dicking like 4chan tends to.

I guess ED isn't on the shit list because its activity is on a smaller scale to KF.

We really need to push the FCC and Congress to make the backbone providers common carriers.
 
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