US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
Also, they're never going to shut down 4chan. That site is heavily moderated and actually semi-mainstream these days.

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Also, they're never going to shut down 4chan. That site is heavily moderated and actually semi-mainstream these days.

As it is, the only reason why /pol/ hasn't been shut down there is so it can serve as a containment board. If something were to happen that would threaten 4chan nowadays, all they would have to do is shut down /pol/ and they'd largely be let off the hook by Silicon Valley and the Feds.
True, but also never say never. They still got their other containment boards (ie all of them), and it'd be entirely possible one of the bigger ones like /r9k/ or /b/ could easily stir up something equally as horrible if given the right reasoning.
 
tl;dr "CIA blackmailed moot into firing all janitors on /b/ and replacing them all with federal agents, and that's why /b/ went to shit"
lmao

It's likely those glow-niggers monitor moderate every board nowadays, it's been almost 10 years. At the time of that post /b/ was the most populated board, so it would be a fair guess to say they watch /pol/ the most now.
 
tl;dr "CIA blackmailed moot into firing all janitors on /b/ and replacing them all with federal agents, and that's why /b/ went to shit"
lmao
/b/ went to shit on its own accord. It was a mixture of the growing popularity of 4chan and more specialty boards being added. In the early days of 4chan, if it wasn't weeb or videogame related (or just porn) /b/ was the only board to talk about stuff like science or movies. /b/ was made less and less relevant. I'm sure there are glow-in-the-darks embedded into 4chan, but judging from the fact they allowed /pol/ to get as big as it did tells me they really are just there to monitor for CP and threats, or are doing a poor job mitigating stuff.
 
tl;dr this for a brainlet like me?

It's an elaborate fanfic but based on the obvious fact that if you post CP on 4chan you may get v& and they almost certainly report that shit.

/b/ saps the sanity of even a brief visitor. I genuinely feel bad for feds, who have to moderate this hell hole.

It's not even a hellhole any more, just spammed to death with celebrity porn and normie shit. Nothing about it resembles the /b/ of 2008.
 
/v/ setup a new board off of 8chan at https://vch.moe/v/catalog.html for anyone who doesn't trust zeronet
Worth noting is that Mark himself did this. It also highlights the issue with having communities all on one site. If the website is shut down or decides to crack down on specific communities, everyone's stuck trying to regroup on other sites. /v/ was a pretty active 8chan board and a more "comfy" alternative to 4chan's /v/ board, and it got nuked because of the actions of the users on a different board on the same website that drew heat from the media/blue checks/silicon valley techies. Thankfully it's also a lot easier to host a video game imageboard than it is a political one.

This site will need to be stable and it'll need to gain traction in order for older users to catch on and go there.
 
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/b/ went to shit on its own accord. It was a mixture of the growing popularity of 4chan and more specialty boards being added. In the early days of 4chan, if it wasn't weeb or videogame related (or just porn) /b/ was the only board to talk about stuff like science or movies. /b/ was made less and less relevant. I'm sure there are glow-in-the-darks embedded into 4chan, but judging from the fact they allowed /pol/ to get as big as it did tells me they really are just there to monitor for CP and threats, or are doing a poor job mitigating stuff.
Yeah, there hasn't been really anything "big" happening on /b/ at all.
The last one I can think of was that one guy who strangled a girl. The main troublemaker boards these days are /r9k/ and /pol/.
 
Yeah, there hasn't been really anything "big" happening on /b/ at all.
The last one I can think of was that one guy who strangled a girl. The main troublemaker boards these days are /r9k/ and /pol/.

And just like /b/ in its time, everyone assumes 4chan is nothing but Nazi incels from /pol/ and /r9k/
 
Not really. It was super-easy and convenient to shut down a site that churns out mass-shooters like a chinese sweatshop. Cloudflare and a lot of these other internet services are actually super-lax with a lot of problematic content, as many others have pointed out in this thread. It is in Cloudflare's interest to make money, so they're not going to go on a banning rampage out of nowhere. They've actually defended 8chan in the past, using a lot of the same reasoning that other posters in this thread have brought up.


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Literally all a site has to do is have SOME modicum of moderation in order to stay safe, and /pol/ couldn't even do THAT right. This was a decision Cloudflare could make easily without getting into the muddy waters of content moderation, because body counts that high go beyond the pale for a lot of people. Believe it or not, nobody really likes 8ch, not even the people who use it. From what I've seen here the only reason kiwis care about 8ch is due to it being a massive liability for future internet cleansing.

Just moderate your fucking site instead of letting stormfags sperg so hard you get shitcanned. It won't become a commie utopia overnight if you exercise some amount of discretion.
They modded the shooter's manifesto before Facebook did, so as usual you don't know what you are talking about. Fuck off retard.

4chan has had people post images of the bodies of their dead victims and it doesn't get clamped down at nearly as much as 8chan has in recent history. What's the difference? Just a few manifestos or is it a bit to far from a certain agenda point certain entities want to enforce? 4chan hasn't been the same for a while, not saying it's mild shit still goes on but 8chan has had quite a few far from politically correct characters posting there, few even have threads on here like S4T and Endomorphosis two that come to mind immediately. I just feel this isn't mainly due to the manifestos this is a bit more than that.

It might end up being a trickle down effect, go after what is considered the most radical and censoring the rest little by little that doesn't fit your world view/agenda. We saw it with Alex Jones, now their going after others that aren't nearly as loony. This is probably going to start happening more with sites to.
I fucking hate to say it, but it's the answer.

Gamergate
 
I fucking hate to say it, but it's the answer.

Gamergate
it's been how many years and they still can't get over gooberglorb. It's truly amazing how petty these people are that they are willing to start a war which is really only gonna bite them in the ass to strike at a fucking corpse.
 
it's been how many years and they still can't get over gooberglorb. It's truly amazing how petty these people are that they are willing to start a war which is really only gonna bite them in the ass to strike at a fucking corpse.


#Gamergate is so gay. *eyeroll*
 
Sure the corporate press is salty over the game industry's critics otherwise known by the name "GamerGate", but they aren't a threat to too many people.
However, 8chan was the prime place for Q Clearance Anon to make posts prior to the "LARPing gunman" that was in "El Paso".
The reason that 8chan got taken down was that corporate journalists were scared of "Q" since he was close to the source. Also 2020's approaching, so take that as you will.

Let's start with unpacking Q's recent post
[C] before [D].
[C]oats before [D]eclas.
The month of AUGUST is traditionally very HOT.
You have more than you know.
Q
Coats is set to leave (or to quote Trump's two famous words, "you're fired."). As he's going, the corporate press and the corrupt are scared of information on their crimes going public. This is more of a possibility than anything.
As for the thing about August, you need to read Chad Pergram's post. http://archive.fo/IeJ1G
"Hot August" was a response to the tax siphon named "Nancy Pelosi" and the House of Representatives.
[24hr Warning]
Be vigilant.
See something.
Say something.
Know your surroundings at all times.
Q
Q got NSA chatter that there was two shootings planned. NSA's data collection is proving fruitful, but was unable to do much until now. Today, the enemy's revealed and they're busy either warning people of, or thwarting attacks (remember when Pelosi got trolled on the bus by being denied the plane? That was a planned assassination that failed [think "John Kennedy"]).
We are being set up.
Threat.
Past Booms - TX bombs
New Booms - Plane crash + Plane/17 drop.
These people are sick.
Attempt to prevent drops / awakening.
Conspiracy?
Coincidence?
Response coming.
Q
There were reports from various national corporate publications blaming Q for a bombing in El Paso that happened after the post was made. All he did was make posts that vaguely related, and then the bomber did "kablooeys". That reeks of "CIA plant".
All this because the intelligence community and America's criminals thought that Hillary had "Decision 2016" in the bag. The cover-up is more likely to get the criminal than the crime itself.
 
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