#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Captain Manning]

Your graph doesn't establish your point at all either in terms of spinner racks or success.

It wasn't meant to. It was meant to point out that the dip in sales coincides with the decision by the big publishing houses to scale back distribution to various brick and mortar retailers in the early 90s. Including non-specialty retailers like your corner convenience store.

My point here is that while there were a number of reasons why sales went to hell in the 90s, I would not necessarily dismiss out of hand that Chuck's reasoning isn't ONE of the reasons companies like Marvel found themselves in trouble. It's beyond dispute they started to choke distribution.

A graph that shows dollars instead of units won't illustrate what happened to the reader base well.

No, but you can extrapolate from that graph that readership tanked. It's just that you can't do it with fine accuracy. It's not the best data point to start with.

You can draw a valid conclusion of sorts from that graph because inflation is an economic reality, and if revenue remained the same between the peak of the early 90s and the peakof the 2000s then unit sales almost certainly dropped... a LOT. Because the chart plots sales revenue, and not gross profit, you can't really fob that off on "overhead" either.

Besides, it's my understanding that nobody really doubts that unit sales went to shit in the 90s. The debate is one of why. My point here (as is yours, it seems) is that Chuck might have hit upon A legitimate reason. My own empirical knowledge is that it became a lot harder to find comics outside of specialty retailers, and sales began to crater shortly thereafter.

EDIT: Fucking autocorrect.

 

[FROG]

A day old with only 28 retweets, 1 quote tweet, and 90 likes.

Those 90 people should make you lose faith in humanity.

View attachment 2148651View attachment 2148632

Anyone 'member Richard critiquing artwork? On the left is a 'trash' art in a Marvel comic book. On the right is a Simping Zach comic in 2021, in its bisexual glory.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MfPTr3N5RlQ
Oh, that 77 grand Our Boy Simpy pulled? It was from a 1,000 backers. 100 piggies bought out the 100 dollar 4 pack. Only 315 people actually bought 499 book 1.

Book 1. That means he's doing more of this.

Oh Mister Piggons must be getting something good for this.

There's no fucking comparison between these two pages of art...Captain Marvel is an untalented artist who is struggling to draw anything resembling a story, and 499 is a gifted animator drawing keyframe panels with characters that seem alive, with beautiful storytelling. The drawings might be loose and unfinished and the colors are deliberately garish, but the story is happening effortlessly. It's frustratingly primitive but the talent is obvious.

 

[TiredAndInked]

Zack sees 499 as an honest to god work of art. He wants to make a lasting statement with his comics, and believes comics can and should be saying more. He's working closely with Narwhal, and is very inspired by this book.

I say this because I want you to know that he's SINCERE. He believes in this project and wants to produce a work of art, instead of just something crass or commercial.

I will wait to read it, although I certainly understand the criticism of how it presents itself.

I'm trying to look at it from an experimental lens. Abstract has an idea of shapes and design. Richard McGuire's here or Asterios Polyp are other examples of experimental comics that were successful. I think the biggest critique of 499 is if it's trying to be bad to convey something to the reader? But there's no uniformity to the scribbles. It feels like low quality children's comics ala adventure Time?

Maybe comparable to Beanworld for the simplicity, but the lines are clean.

If you have faith in it, hey, cool. I'm not sold on it and with Richards backlog of titles still need to be released. It does feel like a slap in the face.

 

[FROG]

Then he’s lost the plot.

‘Believing’ he is creating art is not the customer service you’ve been touting for x years. Funding comics were supposed to be about giving disillusioned fans a viable comic alternative; not indulging experimental concepts which look like arse and sell for a premium.

Best guess - your allegiance to Zack is all that is stopping you admitting how abysmal this looks. That’s fine, but ‘seeing what happens’ is beyond optimistic.

Zack isn't ComicsGate. His videos spawned the movement, but he isn't trying to be an alternative to anything. He's just doing his comics.

I agree that he's over his head with late books, but he'll get it together.

 

[Miniluv]

Zack's latest video lets us know that the new look neon 499 IGG page was done quite deliberately and that he is apparently quite proud of the way it looks. He calls this look "cartoony" and thinks it's just the bee's knees. I know I love cartoons with spazzy linework, myself.

There will be an all new pitch video coming soon to give everyone a better idea of the story because if there's one thing that will get you to pay $25 for a comic with an experimental approach to everything comic art should be, it's a story conceived by Richard C Meyer, the man that brought us Pandemic and The Ballad of No.

 

[Analog Devolved]

Zack sees 499 as an honest to god work of art. He wants to make a lasting statement with his comics, and believes comics can and should be saying more. He's working closely with Narwhal, and is very inspired by this book.

I say this because I want you to know that he's SINCERE. He believes in this project and wants to produce a work of art, instead of just something crass or commercial.

I will wait to read it, although I certainly understand the criticism of how it presents itself.

Sleazy E, we KNOW he's not sincere. Wack Zack phoned it in years ago which is why he doesn't give two fucks about his comics or his customers.

Being inspired by 499 is the reaction from too much acid. It looks like someone gave Timothy Leary a broken crayon.

It's absolutely shit. The people who bought this don't deserve to have money and if Richard Meyer wants to make a statement he should throw a bunch of copies from the roof of a building before he jumps.

You're not going to read it because you already know it sucks but you can't bring yourself to ditch this loser.

I get there are a lot of paypigs in your sphere of gay ops that still worship Richard. Ultimately he was a grifting duplicitous faggot just like the SJW's he railed against.

 

[Adamska]

There's no fucking comparison between these two pages of art...Captain Marvel is an untalented artist who is struggling to draw anything resembling a story, and 499 is a gifted animator drawing keyframe panels with characters that seem alive, with beautiful storytelling. The drawings might be loose and unfinished and the colors are deliberately garish, but the story is happening effortlessly. It's frustratingly primitive but the talent is obvious.

Yeah no on all of that.

I've animated before, I have friends who still do; comics are actually easier than that because you don't have to repeatedly draw frames, meaning you can put a lot more love per image in the time frame. The fuck I saw had little personality and an inconsistent style.

Saying that's the point is the same mentally cramped logic that modern Hollyweird screams out when called upon for making shit due to low effort and low talent.

For an actual example of little effort, but big style and life; look at Tim Burton's rejected Black Cauldron sketches. Those are a lot cruder than the Disney style designs that made it in, but they actually filled the excuse hole being made here. Here's an example of that:

Richard is spewing the same excuses I hear from post-modern morons who try to defend why putting a toilet sideways is art. The exact same "if I waffle enough bullshit it'll hide the piss poor performance" approach that makes modern art laughable.

 

[Mister Dongs]

Chuck Dixon lauding Zack's crazy ideas, out-of-the-box thinking and incredibly fertile mind:

In the sense that a dog turd makes for excellent fertilizer, sure.

Doug TenNapel is looking better by the second.

That's a bit unfair to prop up something like 499: Book One against someone of the caliber of Doug TenNapel or a trash issue of Captain Marvel by some fill-in artist. That's like pitting the works of Michaelangelo against the brushwork of Koko the Gorilla.

Really, Richard C Meyer and Narwhal should be held against someone more around their range, albeit still a more accomplished creator and stronger track record as both creator and publisher despite a million dollar headstart - Nasser Rabadi.

More published work - Richard or Nasser : Nasser
Better track record with fulfillment - Richard or Nasser : Nasser
Better artist - Narwhal or Vic King : Vic King
Better horror comic - 499 or Asyl : Probably Asyl

I bet if I mailed Nasser a sharpie or talked him through how to use MSPaint he could do the whole show.

 

[TiredAndInked]

@Adamska

You just gave me a bunch of new stuff to look at, I didn't realize these were a thing. Thanks!

 

[Brother Maynard]

There's no fucking comparison between these two pages of art...Captain Marvel is an untalented artist who is struggling to draw anything resembling a story, and 499 is a gifted animator drawing keyframe panels with characters that seem alive, with beautiful storytelling. The drawings might be loose and unfinished and the colors are deliberately garish, but the story is happening effortlessly. It's frustratingly primitive but the talent is obvious.

That's what you really want in a comic: No effort.

 

[Idiot Doom Spiral]

That's a bit unfair to prop up something like 499: Book One against someone of the caliber of Doug TenNapel or a trash issue of Captain Marvel by some fill-in artist. That's like pitting the works of Michaelangelo against the brushwork of Koko the Gorilla.

Really, Richard C Meyer and Narwhal should be held against someone more around their range, albeit still a more accomplished creator and stronger track record as both creator and publisher despite a million dollar headstart - Nasser Rabadi.

More published work - Richard or Nasser : Nasser
Better track record with fulfillment - Richard or Nasser : Nasser
Better artist - Narwhal or Vic King : Vic King
Better horror comic - 499 or Asyl : Probably Asyl

I bet if I mailed Nasser a sharpie or talked him through how to use MSPaint he could do the whole show.

Apologies I meant Doug TenNapel is looking better (than Comicsgate) in terms of providing a product, delivering, showing how funded comics should work etc - in terms of art and quality, of course it’s as you say.

 

[TiredAndInked]

Apologies I meant Doug TenNapel is looking better in terms of providing a product, delivering, showing how funded comics should work etc - in terms of art and quality, of course it’s as you say.

Backed two. Received two. Got cool shit. I can't complain.

 

[Newman's Own]

There's no fucking comparison between these two pages of art...Captain Marvel is an untalented artist who is struggling to draw anything resembling a story, and 499 is a gifted animator drawing keyframe panels with characters that seem alive, with beautiful storytelling. The drawings might be loose and unfinished and the colors are deliberately garish, but the story is happening effortlessly. It's frustratingly primitive but the talent is obvious.

It's rushed sketchy trash. Narwhal may be capable of better and he may even be talented but what he's delivering looks like first year art student timed gesture drawings.

People are losing patience with CG luminaries passing off amateur hour half done schlock as "art".

That Captain Marvel artist is bad but at least they put in the time to deliver a finished shitty product instead of a bunch of shitty speed sketches passed off as finished work.

499 looks like rough thumbnails blown up to full size. If Richard thinks that shit will fly after the shit he rightly said about Squirrel Girl then he shouldn't be criticizing anyone's comics.

I've never seen "cartoony" work with such lame line weight and inconsistent characters. Narwhal is no Carl Barks or even Brant Parker.

 

[Idiot Doom Spiral]

Backed two. Received two. Got cool shit. I can't complain.

That’s it. For all the shit talked about him on Ethan’s streams mostly by Cecil, he shows them up royally.

Speaking of Cecil, I genuinely hope he isn’t one on your list - that PoS ain’t fulfilling this side of the next fucking Ice Age.

 

[Captain Manning]

All the times you’ve judged comics solely by their terrible art on your show, and yet you continue to shill for a guy who is putting in an abysmal turn right now and has revealed something which looks worse than anything I have seen outside of a retard’s community mural.

Doug TenNapel is looking better by the second.

Well, yeah...

Politics and personality aside, has Doug actually done any work that is complete and utter shit?

I know I love cartoons with spazzy linework, myself.

Oh, God.

You just gave me a PTSD flashback to Dr. Katz Professional Therapist. Does anybody else remember that show? I thought it looked like shit then, and I still think it looks like shit now. Somehow, it had a following. I can only imagine that people found the writing appealing... or something.

 

[TiredAndInked]

That’s it. For all the shit talked about him on Ethan’s streams mostly by Cecil, he shows them up royally.

Speaking of Cecil, I genuinely hope he isn’t one on your list - that PoS ain’t fulfilling this side of the next fucking Ice Age.

I skipped Cash Grab, I didn't like that he had to promote his comic by openly mocking someone else. Plus I know he's got his fan base, but he never really appealed to me. Delay being anywhere near it made me nope right out of it.

but then again, I'm an idiot who backed Lady Alchemy, so take from that what you will.

 

[Newman's Own]

You just gave me a PTSD flashback to Dr. Katz Professional Therapist. Does anybody else remember that show? I thought it looked like shit then, and I still think it looks like shit now. I can only imagine that people found the writing appealing... or something.

Yeah, it was the writing on that show. The art was intentionally cheap and shitty because it wasn't meant to be a selling point. Like getting a sandwich at a restaurant and it's wrapped in plain butcher paper. The patrons are there for the sandwich and the makers can't be bothered to spend money on custom wrappers.

This show was likely cheaper to make than live action like the early SouthPark episodes were cheap. South Park was much slicker and more stylized though.

 

[Captain Manning]

Yeah, it was the writing on that show.

Fair enough.

But that just means Richard better have some REALLY stellar writing... or he's fucked.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Zach smokes crack. I'm pretty sure that's a well-established fact at this point given his behavior.

That's ybz new book? I don't want him to critique the "SJWs" ever again.

I hope these two never makeup and stop flailing at each other in public.

I should check these guys' Twitter more often. Thanks, @FROG.

With the amount of time he's doing on Twitter and arguing on Twitter he would've fulfilled Rekt planet by now.

There's no fucking comparison between these two pages of art

You're right, Captain Marvel looks good and 499 looks like shit. The past 3 years you guys shit on the SJWs yet at least the books come out on time, stories are coherent and the art is passable, you and zack are better off being YouTube commentators because you guys made a mockery of crowd-funding and comics and it's a shame you are making excuses over this trash art.

 

[Newman's Own]

Fair enough.

But that just means Richard better have some REALLY stellar writing... or he's fucked.

Well, considering that Dr Katz is a talking head style sitcom and 499 is a action adventure thriller type story I'd say Meyer is fucked by the art before he fills a singal word balloon.

It's like getting the guy who did Order of the Stick to draw DareDevil. I don't care if Frank Miller is the writer, I won't be buying that story.



I'm not sure how everyone in CG isn't deeply embarrassed by this and Adam Post's SJW created mermaid webcomic repurposed to squeeze pay pigs but it's even funnier that they can't acknowledge how pathetic ComicsGate offerings have become.

I thought Wart was the bottom but this stuff coming from the second biggest name in the "movement" makes that look like a worthy project. At least Mandy was a first timer when she made that mess.

With amount of time he's doing on twitter and arguing on twitter he would've fulfilled Rekt planet by now.

That only makes it more entertaining. Watching his LoLCow base lap up his Twitter battles while he avoids getting pages done is hilarious. How many pages is Rect Planet supposed to be anyway?

How many pages are done?