#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[RodgerDodger]

I’m not under any illusion his book is going to be amazing or anything like that. He’s pretty much said it’s an average ‘90s styled apolitical action comic. You can’t break any ground or save the comicbook industry with that. But the comics industry is so corrupted by SJWs they made it into a book that will probably be a footnote in comics history. Everyone (in comics) will remember 2018 as the year the comics industry went nuts.

EDIT:
In case you’re wondering what everyone remembers 2017 as:

Spoiler: 2017 is...

View attachment 451574https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/2017-year-almost-everything-went-wrong-marvel-comics-1070616

His book won’t be amazing. But just from the sample pages he has put out the art is better than 95% of anything coming from the larger publishers these days. It looks like real comic art and not some deviatartholes web scribbling.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

At the end of the day I must ask this: what did Mark Waid and his contemporaries hope to accomplish in the end? Antarctic Press is--at best--a boutique press that many retailers would not order from unless a customer requested them to. My comic shop guy told me that he doesn't stock up on them and he has a large selection of books to choose from. They may try to spin was a rousing victory against bigotry, when in fact it is a phyrric victory. I seriously do believe the rumours that Waid is going to get shitcanned from Marvel once his contract expires and DC will likely want nothing to do with him. Why would they? They have Geoff Johns (when he can spare the time to write) and Scott Snyder as their all-stars. Plus, there are veterans like Dan Abnett, Robert Vendetti, and Christopher Priest as well as up-and-comers like Joshua Williamson and Tom King. These people act professional on their social media accounts and actually promote their books while engaging with their fans. Waid used it to rage at the people he despises and has become more of a liability than an asset.

The part that breaks my heart is that I met Waid at a con ten years ago and he was friendly and a pleasure to talk to and I kind of wonder how much of that was an act. That interview of Gary Groth I posted on the second page of the thread revealed that he had serious emotional issues long before SJWs infiltrated the industry. I honestly do appreciate his contributions, but reading his current work feels like looking into the mind of angry man-child who is increasingly out of touch with the fanbase.

Let's face facts: the current business and distribution model for the comic book industry is killing it. Comic shops are disappearing and the Big Two are reaching a larger audience through films, television, and video games than they are with the medium the genre originates from. Waid's community of dolts that they can save the industry by appealing to exceedingly narrow demographics. Does anyone think that there were really enough queer latinxes to keep America Chavez's book afloat? The point is to cast as wide a net possible to gain as large a customer base as possible. I've heard stories that stores lost business because the characters headlining Captain America/Iron Man/Thor were not the same as their film counterparts.

D&C (to his credit) recognized that there are a lot of disaffected comic book fans who want to return to the industry, but Marvel doesn't want them and continues to chase their phantom audience. The anti-CG side can crow all they want about how they stopped D&C and his nasty cadre of misogynistic harassers, but the fact is that they are losing the war and what they "won" is a small victory. All they did was give him was more publicity and revealed their pettiness to the world. Should D&C make good on his promise to bring legal action against Waid, this is going to get ugly fast and create more of a headache to them than a few nasty tweets.

 

[MidUSA]

His book won’t be amazing. But just from the sample pages he has put out the art is better than 95% of anything coming from the larger publishers these days. It looks like real comic art and not some deviatartholes web scribbling.

It's drawn by an actual top-tier artist, John Malin, who recently worked for Marvel but were driven out for speaking up against the SJW madness.

I have no illusion that Zachs writing will produce any more than a simple and unambitious comic rendition of a cheesy 80's action movie. It won't be the new Watchmen or Sandman or anything. Which is kinda the point. He wanted to prove that simple dumb comics without current-year 'progressive' propaganda still has an audience.

Of course the water is pretty muddled here, with a lot of the funding being given due to the symbolic value of the campaign, rather than people being that interested in the actual Jawbreaker comic itself.

 

[RockVolnutt]

Black Mask doesn’t hire straight white men. If Waid was vaguely ethnic or closeted gay, maybe.

Hanukkah Orangejuice is black?

 

[RodgerDodger]

It looks like Mr. Meyer has hired legal council and is going after at a minimum Waid for Tortious Interference and Slander.

Also worth noting that the story is starting to break out into the non nerd press. The Conservative Press is starting to smell blood and get involved.
http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/15...ut-success-upon-ditching-sjw-infested-comics/

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

I wonder if it's ever occured to the comics industry that they might want to lower their prices if they're trying to market to impoverished african-american and mexicans? 3-5 bucks per comic on a regular basis is quite the investment if you're dirt poor.

They're not thinking things through. Not only is it pricey for a single issue, it's not easily accessible. Back in the day, comics were sold in gas stations and grocery stores. Today, they'd have to find a comic book store and they aren't exactly a dime a dozen. Don't know any stats, but the stores that remain probably are in more affluent areas or cover a large geographic area.

It's drawn by an actual top-tier artist, John Malin, who recently worked for Marvel but were driven out for speaking up against the SJW madness.

I have no illusion that Zachs writing will produce any more than a simple and unambitious comic rendition of a cheesy 80's action movie. It won't be the new Watchmen or Sandman or anything. Which is kinda the point. He wanted to prove that simple dumb comics without current-year 'progressive' propaganda still has an audience.

Of course the water is pretty muddled here, with a lot of the funding being given due to the symbolic value of the campaign, rather than people being that interested in the actual Jawbreaker comic itself.

It'd be shocking if there was anything profound, but like you said it's probably going to be like an 80s or 90s action flick.

Also, is it still possible to buy his book?

 

[RodgerDodger]

They're not thinking things through. Not only is it pricey for a single issue, it's not easily accessible. Back in the day, comics were sold in gas stations and grocery stores.



It'd be shocking if there was anything profound, but like you said it's probably going to be like an 80s or 90s action flick.

Also, is it still possible to buy his book?

Yes! He left the Indiegogo campaign open as a storefront. So you can buy the graphic novel. The Graphic Novel through the Indiegogo is 3 bound issues. Antarctic Press was supposed to publish it as three traditional floppies through comic stores.

 

[damian]

Hanukkah Orangejuice is black?

"Black Mask doesn’t hire straight white men. If Waid was vaguely ethnic or closeted gay, maybe."

 

[Emperor Julian]

They're not thinking things through. Not only is it pricey for a single issue, it's not easily accessible. Back in the day, comics were sold in gas stations and grocery stores. Today, they'd have to find a comic book store and they aren't exactly a dime a dozen. Don't know any stats, but the stores that remain probably are in more affluent areas or cover a large geographic area.

I don't know if the states do this but In the UK we have this thing where you get a compilation/magazine called collector edition they're roughly two comics in one released on a monthly basis for the rough price of £4, typically a couple of months behind the primary comic. These are commonly distributed in both corner shops and major retails such as WHSmith. This allows distrubution of Marvel and DC comics across the UK in a cheap efficiant rate seperate from Comic book stores.
Now if Marvel where actually interested in branching out into Urban communities they'd re-establish grocery store distribution using the same model. Produce say, Blade/Black panther combo and an American chavez/ms marvel on dog shit cheap paper and sell it at an initial loss and then cheap to urban groceries. Hovering around the $5 mark.

This of coarse relies on the assumption of competance and coherant aghenda, since I'd hire a Mexican who could actually write for American Chavez so it have doesnt have prose vaguely simular to chris chan, quit fucking around with A-list line up and instead try to grow minority superheroes over a protracted period through organic growth.

 

[damian]

Stan Lee Saga Continues, Just as i was talking about it too:

http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/...against-his-former-company-pow-entertainment/

 

[AnOminous]

They're not thinking things through. Not only is it pricey for a single issue, it's not easily accessible. Back in the day, comics were sold in gas stations and grocery stores. Today, they'd have to find a comic book store and they aren't exactly a dime a dozen. Don't know any stats, but the stores that remain probably are in more affluent areas or cover a large geographic area.

I don't know about that. Most of the comic book stores I know of are in medium to big cities, but they don't often earn enough money to be in nice parts of town. Most of them I know of are in distinctly sketchy areas.

 

[RockVolnutt]

In the UK we have this thing where you get a compilation/magazine called collector edition they're roughly two comics released on a monthly basis for the rough price of £4, typically a couple of months behind the primary comic. These are commonly distributed in both corner shops and major retails such as WHSmith. This allows distrubution of Marvel and DC comics across the UK in a cheap efficiant rate seperate from Comic book stores.
Now if Marvel where actually interested in branching out into Urban communities they'd re-establish grocery store distribution using the same model. Produce say, Blade/Black panther combo and an American chavez/ms marvel on dog shit cheap paper and sell it at an initial loss and then cheap to urban groceries. Hovering around the $5 mark.

This of coarse relies on the assumption of competance and coherant aghenda, since I'd hire a Mexican who could actually write for American Chavez so it have doesnt have prose vaguely simular to chris chan, quit fucking around with A-list line up and instead try to grow minority superheroes over a protracted period through organic growth.

I'd also make it very clear what happens if they dick around on twitter.

I know the usual counter argument for it is "It gives us an in-built fanbase to work off of" but I never understood why they'd dick over a-listers for lower quality replacements. You're damaging your golden goose for an attempt at a larger audience but the fact they're a-list means they're the least niche of your stable. It's unlikely that Captain America as a character only attracts white American men. Plus you have to deal with the PR nightmare like Secret Empire's "Look at old racist white America" metaphor or accusations of Marvel hating black people when they finally brought Steve Rogers back.

Plus they seem pretty clueless to what the demographics they're aiming for actually want. I can bet you that black people in general would rather read Wolverine, as in Logan, getting in bloody brawls with people than getting a #Woke lesson because that's who Wolverine is.

 

[RodgerDodger]

I know the usual counter argument for it is "It gives us an in-built fanbase to work off of" but I never understood why they'd dick over a-listers for lower quality replacements. You're damaging your golden goose for an attempt at a larger audience but the fact they're a-list means they're the least niche of your stable. It's unlikely that Captain America as a character only attracts white American men. Plus you have to deal with the PR nightmare like Secret Empire's "Look at old racist white America" metaphor or accusations of Marvel hating black people when they finally brought Steve Rogers back.

Plus they seem pretty clueless to what the demographics they're aiming for actually want. I can bet you that black people in general would rather read Wolverine, as in Logan, getting in bloody brawls with people than getting a #Woke lesson because that's who Wolverine is.

That’s the thing. If you ever talk to actual black comic fans you find that they typically have the exact same tastes and likes as everybody else. Their favorite characters are almost always Spider-Man, Batman and Wolverine. The stories and characters sing to them regardless of the characters race. Peter Parker’s struggles resonate with readers. Y’know why Black Panthers sales have always been a fraction of Spider-man? Because black comic fans don’t generally read it. (Unless Chrispher Priest is writing it, because the dude can write.)

 

[mindlessobserver]

If anyone is curious, there is high level drama similar to this playing out involving canned tuna (no joke). Basically the big tuna companies got together and tried to fix the market, setting prices and keeping out upstart organic hippy sourced small timers by interfering with them by obstructing their ability to contract with independent fishermen hunting Tuna. They are being prosecuted under the Sherman Act (among other things). The Starkist VP for sales got sentenced to up to 10 years, and the CEO of Bumblee was indicted today. There have already been tens of millions of dollars in fines levied and more in the works. People joke about how corporations always get fined for shenanigans but the people running the corporations are protected by the corporate shield. And this is usually true, unless specific statutes are brought in. There are a few laws that can tear down the corporate shield and get at the rats hiding behind it. The more well known one is RICO, but the Sherman can do it too. Which is probably why Waide got a dressing down and told to delete his social media by his boss. I doubt there is anything going on here that would result in criminal prosecutions, but to even have the Sherman brought into a civil lawsuit and held up on the merits is bad for any corporation.

 

[RockVolnutt]

If anyone is curious, there is high level drama similar to this playing out involving canned tuna (no joke). Basically the big tuna companies got together and tried to fix the market, setting prices and keeping out upstart organic hippy sourced small timers by interfering with them by obstructing their ability to contract with independent fishermen hunting Tuna. They are being prosecuted under the Sherman Act (among other things). The Starkist VP for sales got sentenced to up to 10 years, and the CEO of Bumblee was indicted today. There have already been tens of millions of dollars in fines levied and more in the works. People joke about how corporations always get fined for shenanigans but the people running the corporations are protected by the corporate shield. And this is usually true, unless specific statutes are brought in. There are a few laws that can tear down the corporate shield and get at the rats hiding behind it. The more well known one is RICO, but the Sherman can do it too. Which is probably why Waide got a dressing down and told to delete his social media by his boss. I doubt there is anything going on here that would result in criminal prosecutions, but to even have the Sherman brought into a civil lawsuit and held up on the merits is bad for any corporation.

Why do people even bother trying to delete everything when it's all archived anyways? Waid is too notable a figure, at least in comics, to not always have eyes on him.

 

[damian]

New guys talking about Comicsgate with experience in comic industry talking as people stumbling into CG with no idea what was happening. Surprisingly (not really), they were shocked at the Pro's behavior. The videos are pretty long but I wasn't bored:

 

[RodgerDodger]

Why do people even bother trying to delete everything when it's all archived anyways? Waid is too notable a figure, at least in comics, to not always have eyes on him.

I've never quite understood this mentality? They do realize that Facebook and Twitter etc are actually required to keep an archive copy, and that in the event of investigation or litigation they will give that up in a heartbeat. They don't actually view anything that you have publicly posted to another as privileged info. They may fight tooth and nail to not reveal certain of your personal info such as real name, address etc, unless so ordered by a court. But shit you put on your Facebook page. Yeah they'll give that up. Even shit that you "deleted". Heck all Waid's "deleting" his Facebook account did was make it so his lawyer will likely have to rely on the Plaintiff's filings to see what his asshole of a client actually posted on Social Media.

 

[One Man Bland]

"Comics isn't a club, let me explain exactly how comics ISN'T a club":
https://twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/status/996121572934070272 (http://archive.is/rxBQL)

The funny thing about this is that Mags is actually kind of right about this. For the most part, the comic creator community as a whole is fairly relaxed. If you know who to look out for you can find quite a few creators who are fairly drama-free (or at least have the sense not to air their dirty laundry all over social media) and it's an unspoken rule at cons to pick up something from a creator of you're going to ask for advice or share samples, and if not they're usually more than willing to answer questions about their techniques.

The thing Mags fails to address is that this is supposed to be a two way street. Right off the bat she only lists times when the bigger names have helped her, and not the ways Mags is willing to help her peers. This has been a really common attitude amongst the chucklefucks listed in this thread: they expect everyone else to do the leg work, but they'll never return the favor. Or their "help" will be conditional like when they screeched at the Headlopper creator for wondering about the lack of press for the release of the second volume as being entitled.

It reminds me of this one time Oni Press (the comic publisher so professional it uses a fucking Tumblr for their official business website) where they arranged to have three new upcoming female comic creators who made their debut with them. Two were some bland "anti damsel"/" damseled princess but lesbian-flavored" that had saturated the market for a year, the third was a kung fu story about zodiac animal warriors made by an Asian team. A little or cliche maybe, but it had nice art and wasn't preachy or worried about driving home a message, and in the interview they were clearly passionate about their work and crafting a fun comic. But during this interview there came a question along the lines "tell us how feminism and your gender/race influenced your comic" and while the princess comics gave the usual drivel, the zodiac comic creator said something like "oh I don't feel those things really influenced me that much."

Can you guess which one saw a significant drop in press after that?

 

[Irwin M. Felcher]

I really have a strong suspicion this has already happened. As soon as Waid wraps up anything ongoing Marvel has, he's done, and he's so radioactive nobody will ever hire him again.

but wait I always thought that being radioactive in comics was a good thing????

Black Mask doesn’t hire straight white men. If Waid was vaguely ethnic or closeted gay, maybe.

You mean Marcella Waid?

 

[damian]

It reminds me of this one time Oni Press (the comic publisher so professional it uses a fucking Tumblr for their official business website) where they arranged to have three new upcoming female comic creators who made their debut with them. Two were some bland "anti damsel"/" damseled princess but lesbian-flavored" that had saturated the market for a year, the third was a kung fu story about zodiac animal warriors made by an Asian team. A little or cliche maybe, but it had nice art and wasn't preachy or worried about driving home a message, and in the interview they were clearly passionate about their work and crafting a fun comic. But during this interview there came a question along the lines "tell us how feminism and your gender/race influenced your comic" and while the princess comics gave the usual drivel, the zodiac comic creator said something like "oh I don't feel those things really influenced me that much."

Can you guess which one saw a significant drop in press after that?

Can you find it?