#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Incredible Crisis]

It's why I don't ultimately fear some social-Marxist takeover of the industry, leaving aside if that was ever an actual thing or just a conspiracy theory. See, even if they were to successfully get into the head positions of the entertainment industry, nobody would buy what they made because they don't know how to MAKE things that are appealing and entertaining.

They only know how to hawk empty political platitudes, they didn't LEARN their politics, they never studied history, or political theory, or even polled a room full of average people. They just absorbed a nice-sounding but impractical ideology from self-appointed social geniuses.

So, having not learned it, and being unable to defend their positions logically, or even explain them without spouting an endless list of buzzwords or their fists clenching, they can't teach it either.

They can only do what was done to them, yell, scream, make a scene and hope that converts the dull masses. And while that may sell for the edge factor for a couple issues, the public appetite quickly sours and you're left with new-age commies whining that nobody is buying their propaganda and how this is just more proof of the inherent decadence of western pop culture as the people abandoned them, the genius revolutionary class, and flocked to "trash" like Spongebob instead of "Ivan the little red car who defeated the false consciousness programming of Detroit"

These socialist-regressives are cut from the same cloth as 50's commie sympathizers and 30's actual really communist commies, they fundamentally don't understand their fellow man has opinions, to them, their fellow man is a sheep and will be easily guided once we superior thinkers subvert the means of production and takeover all the industries.

Didn't work them

Won't work now

Will never ever EVER work.

90% they can't get into, and the remaining 10% they can, through academic/economic nepotism, not skill, they decisively drive right into the ground.

The main thing that irritates me is that the only mechanism by which they were allowed to gain any power is capitalism and true freedom of speech and expression. They want to erase the gains and concessions of their predecessors and fool idiots into thinking they were the start of anything truly good.

But if all we have left is their shoddy work, what will the industry have left to build from? If everything prior to now is problematic, then we will have to resign ourselves to increasingly regurgitory and incestuous expression that will be palatable to nobody.

 

[Stock Image Photographer]

But if all we have left is their shoddy work, what will the industry have left to build from? If everything prior to now is problematic, then we will have to resign ourselves to increasingly regurgitory and incestuous expression that will be palatable to nobody.

I'm pretty sure that's part of the overall plan. If they do the same thing they've been doing to comics to every other entertainment industry, then eventually people's expectations will go way down and they'll finally be "good" because there's no actual good content still being produced.

 

[TowinKarz]

Ironically, at that point, your audience will be so small as to have no ability to affect actual politics like you wanted. Because you will have whittled it down to a group barely larger than the already existing radical loonies that set the whole thing in motion.

The vast majority of sane nonpartisan normies will have left years ago, unwilling to stand there and be preached to by badly-drawn propaganda mouthpieces, and though the creators cheered as they left (we don't need you if you aren't with us!) they thought they'd be replaced in number by "right" thinkers.

But that didn't happen

Because you've refined what qualifies as "right thinker" down to 5% of the population, everyone else has been excluded for failing your social purity checks.

But if only 5% of the population is extreme enough for your taste, that's all you'll ever get, you can't turn middle-of-the-road people into extremists, and in free societies like ours where you can't compel them to at least act like extremist under penalty of the gulag, the extremists cannot and will never gain traction, even if they take over the presses.

 

[Incredible Crisis]

Ironically, at that point, your audience will be so small as to have no ability to affect actual politics like you wanted. Because you will have whittled it down to a group barely larger than the already existing radical loonies that set the whole thing in motion.

The vast majority of sane nonpartisan normies will have left years ago, unwilling to stand there and be preached to by badly-drawn propaganda mouthpieces, and though the creators cheered as they left (we don't need you if you aren't with us!) they thought they'd be replaced in number by "right" thinkers.

But that didn't happen

Because you've refined what qualifies as "right thinker" down to 5% of the population, everyone else has been excluded for failing your social purity checks.

But if only 5% of the population is extreme enough for your taste, that's all you'll ever get, you can't turn middle-of-the-road people into extremists, and in free societies like ours where you can't compel them to at least act like extremist under penalty of the gulag, the extremists cannot and will never gain traction, even if they take over the presses.

When all entertainment becomes inherently political, we lose the inherent meaning of the word "entertain". To entertain is to bare our egos and welcome new ideas, whether they be funny, scary, profound, or sublime. Great entertainment should be universal, lasting, and well made.

We are at risk of losing classic works because they are considered incompatible with today's approved viewpoints, and having them be replaced with fascimiles and imitations starring the most oppressed and marginalized, because apparently media is the only thing these groups can use as a source of self esteem in the entire world.

 

[damian]

Mindy has finally left Comicsgate, took her twitter and Youtube with her.

Some comments:
Mid 30s is a little girl apparently

"Don't appear on my recommended videos again."

Some dirt on Mindy and her husband:

Rest of the comment section attached.

Also,
@neural requesting Top 10 (Pro/Anti) Comicsgate sperg of 2018 poll.

Everyone should nominate at least one sperg and explain why you nominated them. I'll start off:

1. Eric Esquivel for being a Male Feminist™, nuking his social media, getting his book cancelled before it ends and DC making all printed copies completely refundable/returnable.
2. Robbi Rodriguez for showing his asshole to EVS and nuking his twitter.
3. Mark Waid for getting sued.
4. EVS for quitting and returning to CG because he felt he gave a win to those goddang SJWs.
5. Chuck Wendig for TDS-ing so hard even Marvel wanted none of his shit and cancelled his book.
6. Renfamous for having a meltdown after getting doxxed by our lovely @emspex.
7. Black Christmas (Kwanzer) for being a butthurt bitch and flagging reviews of his comics, even private ones.
8. Mags Visaggio for challenging YaBoi Zack to donate $10K to an LGBT organization and then trying to tank the donation.
9. @LateNightComics for being a terrible leaker and getting kicked out of CG for harassing Darwyn Cooke's Widow.
10. Max Bemis for inserting Douglas Ernst into his Moon Knight comics as a nazi character.
11. Joe Glass for virtue signaling his way out of getting his KS project funded.

EDIT: I fucking forgot Joe Glass shooting himself in the foot while virtue signaling.

 

[AnOminous]

Who even bullied this cunt? All I remember is her constantly whoring for attention and maybe some people said who the fuck even is this?

 

[Maggots on a Train v2]

Of all the points he gets right, he gets the main one wrong. Manga will not overtake comics in 3-5 years. Manga overtook comics by 2012 by most estimates; some even earlier. In 2017 it's estimated manga generated $570 million compared to comic book's $355 million.

Those values are comic store order totals, so its slightly inflated by Marvel's over-shipping tactics and they still come out behind. If you look at the year over year; it has Graphic novels extending their lead each year and there's no reason to think this won't just get bigger. This is also just North America, there's 0 reason to think that Comics would overtake Manga in any other part of the world (Certainly not any Asian countries).

One thing that cannot be over-stated about Manga is how easy it is to get into; you just find a series and buy book #1 and keep going if you like it. Older comics are incredibly hard to track down and it's hard to tell what specific issue you're looking for. For example, if you wanted to know about Miles Morales (aka the black spiderman) you'd would have to tracked down Ultimate Comics : Fallout #4 (from 2011, $20 on ebay) and then start tracking down Ultimate Spiderman #1 (from 2011, $12 on ebay) which is a prequel to Fallout #4.

There's also Miles Morales : Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Comics : Spider-Man, and Cataclysm : Ultimate Spider-Man which are not to be confused with the Non-Miles Spider-Mans, like Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, Superior Spider-Man, or Web of Spider-Man - and those are just the ones that came out a similar time (a between 2010-2015). This does not include any other annuals or crossovers that either (of the many) Spider-Mans were involved with. Just look at this shit. Compare it to Bleach which is just a single book that goes from #1-686 in order.

If you were playing catch up (and you are, as Miles is from 2011 and Bleach is from 2004[in English]) a copy of the first three chapters of bleach would set you back $10.20 and contains 576 pages compared to the "Miles Morales Ultimate Spider-Man Ultimate Collection Book 1" will set you back $31.50 for 400 pages.

Manga is easier to collect, easier to follow, is way-less preachy, less expensive per page, and actually overtook the comics industry years ago.

That's actually interesting. I remember reading some smug article several years ago about how manga could never overtake American comics, because most volumes move less than 10k copies. At the time I had read that, it had already come to pass. I questioned it then, because every bookstore still has a thick manga selection, and yet I've never ever seen a pile of manga in a liquidation store.

 

[Boss Bass]

There’s one hilarious thing we’ve never mentioned about Waid. Waid loudly identifies fascists everywhere, then hires Zaid, someone who turned over a whistleblower to the equivalent of the military secret police.

 

[Least Concern]

Everyone should nominate at least one sperg and explain why you nominated them. I'll start off:

Do you feel silly for forgetting about Vox Day?

A second nomination for EVS for promising to deliver on that Waid sperg-out 911 call when he couldn't. I'm still saltier about that than I should be.

That British couple who made hours worth of videos accusing EVS of gatekeeping when he wouldn't feature them on his stream. For that matter, every ComicsGate IGG success story wannabe who spent more time whining about gatekeeping than just working on their damned comics.

Edit: Zack for the Dark Roast. That was this year, right? It was dumb and immature and he should have known it would inevitably leak.

 

[Tanner Glass]

That's actually interesting. I remember reading some smug article several years ago about how manga could never overtake American comics, because most volumes move less than 10k copies. At the time I had read that, it had already come to pass. I questioned it then, because every bookstore still has a thick manga selection, and yet I've never ever seen a pile of manga in a liquidation store.

Not to mention who actually by that point I knew exactly 0 people who were actively reading comic books but knew several people who read manga.

Another issue I thought of that isn't on that list is stagnation. Manga is exploding with creativity and basically always has been; where as comics have nearly forever. Think of a few hugely popular manga and comics and then think of when those characters debuted. I have a few choice answers right here.

Comics
Superman - 1939
Batman - 1939
The Flash - 1940
Captain Marvel - 1940
Captain America and Bucky Barnes - 1941
Aquaman - 1941
Groot - 1960
Ant-Man, The Hulk, Spider-Man and Thor- 1962
Iron Man, Doctor Strange, X-Men, and The Avengers - 1963

Manga
Dragonball - 1985
JoJo's Bizzare Adventure - 1987
Berserk - 1990
Rurouni Kenshin - 1994
Yu-Gi-Oh - 1996
One Piece - 1997
Naruto - 1999
Bleach - 2001
Death Note - 2004
Attack on Titan - 2010
Assassination Classroom - 2012
My Hero Academia - 2014
Boruto - 2016
Goblin Slayer - 2016

Looking at the list I cited, there have been 6 new superheros debuted in comics from 2010 to present day. Of those, only 3 of them are from an American company (all Marvel) and none of them are actually new characters. They are

Ms. Marvel (2014) - a reboot of the 1977 Ms. Marvel but it's a Muslim girl this time.
Spider-Gwen (2014) - if Gwen Stacy was spider-man instead.
Gwenpool (2016) - if Gwen Stacy was Deadpool instead.

So if you wanted to read a brand new character in a comic book I sure hope you like Gwen Stacy, as she is 66% of all new characters according to Wikipedia, if not Muslim Ms. Marvel will have to hold you over. Manga on the other hand is cranking out new characters, concepts, and ideas at a fast pace so there's usually something for anyone to enjoy and even some of the "classics" are only 20 years old (compared to 70 for comics). The ones on the Manga list are just the ones I recognized (and are mostly from Shonen Jump), there's a tremendous amount more than that even.

 

[KO 864]

Not to mention who actually by that point I knew exactly 0 people who were actively reading comic books but knew several people who read manga.

Another issue I thought of that isn't on that list is stagnation. Manga is exploding with creativity and basically always has been; where as comics have nearly forever. Think of a few hugely popular manga and comics and then think of when those characters debuted. I have a few choice answers right here.

Comics
Superman - 1939
Batman - 1939
The Flash - 1940
Captain Marvel - 1940
Captain America and Bucky Barnes - 1941
Aquaman - 1941
Groot - 1960
Ant-Man, The Hulk, Spider-Man and Thor- 1962
Iron Man, Doctor Strange, X-Men, and The Avengers - 1963

Manga
Dragonball - 1985
JoJo's Bizzare Adventure - 1987
Berserk - 1990
Rurouni Kenshin - 1994
Yu-Gi-Oh - 1996
One Piece - 1997
Naruto - 1999
Bleach - 2001
Death Note - 2004
Attack on Titan - 2010
Assassination Classroom - 2012
My Hero Academia - 2014
Boruto - 2016
Goblin Slayer - 2016

Looking at the list I cited, there have been 6 new superheros debuted in comics from 2010 to present day. Of those, only 3 of them are from an American company (all Marvel) and none of them are actually new characters. They are

Ms. Marvel (2014) - a reboot of the 1977 Ms. Marvel but it's a Muslim girl this time.
Spider-Gwen (2014) - if Gwen Stacy was spider-man instead.
Gwenpool (2016) - if Gwen Stacy was Deadpool instead.

So if you wanted to read a brand new character in a comic book I sure hope you like Gwen Stacy, as she is 66% of all new characters according to Wikipedia, if not Muslim Ms. Marvel will have to hold you over. Manga on the other hand is cranking out new characters, concepts, and ideas at a fast pace so there's usually something for anyone to enjoy and even some of the "classics" are only 20 years old (compared to 70 for comics). The ones on the Manga list are just the ones I recognized (and are mostly from Shonen Jump), there's a tremendous amount more than that even.

I'm pretty sure Gwenpool isn't Gwen Stacy. I think she's meant to be like some girl from the "real" world who winds up in comics. Her being named Gwen is to cash in on the popularity of the surprisingly successful Spider-Gwen.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Might be slightly OT, but interesting for those that pay more attention to the business side of comics and related properties. It was just announced that Mattel is losing the DC master license. All the DC related toy manufacturing is going over to a relatively unknown toy company Spin-Masters. Primarily known for Hatchimals and Air-Hogs toys.

My gut take on it is Batman just isn't selling toys the way he used to. Mattel is in too deep financial straights to keep paying DC's high fees with little to show for it, and nobody else wanted it. At least not at WB's asking price.

 

[damian]

Might be slightly OT, but interesting for those that pay more attention to the business side of comics and related properties. It was just announced that Mattel is losing the DC master license. All the DC related toy manufacturing is going over to a relatively unknown toy company Spin-Masters. Primarily known for Hatchimals and Air-Hogs toys.

My gut take on it is Batman just isn't selling toys the way he used to. Mattel is in too deep financial straights to keep paying DC's high fees with little to show for it, and nobody else wanted it. At least not at WB's asking price.

Toy market overall seems to be in it's dying phase.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Toy market overall seems to be in it's dying phase.

Not as much as some make it out. Toys R Us wasn't lost because of poor sales. It fell because of Predatory Vulture Capitalists sadling it with Billions of Debt while they looted it. There is still a huge toy market out there. It's just shifted a bit from the old days. As an example look at 2 very similar products. Mattel's DC Multiverse figures. 6" Action figures of assorted DC heros and villains. Each wave typically has a build a figure so if you complete the whole wave you get the parts for a larger figure. Sales on it are awful. The quality is shit. Distribution is half assed and they are lucky to get a square foot of shelf space. Hasbro has Marvel's Marvel Legends line. A 6" Action figure line with Build a figures. It's a license to print money. They take up half an aisle at Target and they can't restock fast enough.

So the market is there, if you aren't complacent about it. It's not dying the way the comics are.

 

[linchan]

So what made Manga different and age better than comic books? Haven't read comic books yet, but I'm surprised how different those two markets are, ignoring cultural differences. Are Japanese people just oldfags who read from very old media? Is it because they have better marketing? Is it because of the titties plastered in each panel? Is there any reason why Manga's are seemingly more diverse, memorable and accessible despite looking more trashy in general; like, I don't want to be caught reading a manga than a comic book? How did this divergence begin? Why did Comic market take a different fate than the Manga market? I'm not asking why they are different, but rather when and why did the markets become different.

 

[damian]

Not as much as some make it out. Toys R Us wasn't lost because of poor sales. It fell because of Predatory Vulture Capitalists sadling it with Billions of Debt while they looted it. There is still a huge toy market out there. It's just shifted a bit from the old days. As an example look at 2 very similar products. Mattel's DC Multiverse figures. 6" Action figures of assorted DC heros and villains. Each wave typically hat has a build a figure so if you complete the whole wave you get parts for a larger figure. Toy’s Sales on it are awful. The quality is shit. Distribution is half assed and they are lucky to get a square foot of shelf space. Hasbro has Marvel's Marvel Legends line. A 6" Action figure line with Build a figures. It's a license to print money. They take up half an aisle at Target and they can't restock fast enough.

So the market is there, if you aren't complacent about it. It's not dying the way the comics are.

I meant toy stores overall. Might just be where I live, but outside of chains like Walmart or KMart, there are no toy stores anywhere within driving distance. Toy’s R Us killed any small shops in its hay day and now that it’s gone there’s nowhere that sells toys exclusively. 95% of my toy shopping this Christmas was and had to be done online through websites like Amazon.

 

[Judge Dredd]

So what made Manga different and age better than comic books?

That's a big question with a complicated and nuanced answer.

because of the titties plastered in each panel

Basically that.



To seriously try and answer your question. I think the when was during the mid 2000s anime boom. In the 80s and 90s anime was rare, and when you did find it you had to pay through the nose to get it. I remember anime airing at 2am on the sci-fi channel. Around the mid 2000s it wasn't exactly cheap, but it was more available than before. I remember seeing manga go from quirky imports that barely had a single shelf to having their own dedicated sections in book shops.

I joke about titties, and teenage me certainly saw the appeal but I wonder if the opposite is true. Women love their gay vampire manga to the point where Yoai even had it's own section in a local comics shops.

 

[damian]

Do you feel silly for forgetting about Vox Day?

Not really, I just gave a few options, everyone should throw some nominations because even I can’t remember all the crazy shit we’ve seen.

A second nomination for EVS for promising to deliver on that Waid sperg-out 911 call when he couldn't. I'm still saltier about that than I should be.

That British couple who made hours worth of videos accusing EVS of gatekeeping when he wouldn't feature them on his stream. For that matter, every ComicsGate IGG success story wannabe who spent more time whining about gatekeeping than just working on their damned comics.

I forgot about the 911 call, good job.

Edit: Zack for the Dark Roast. That was this year, right? It was dumb and immature and he should have known it would inevitably leak.

Late December 2017 iirc. Wouldn’t make the cut.

 

[Mr. 0]

So what made Manga different and age better than comic books? Haven't read comic books yet, but I'm surprised how different those two markets are, ignoring cultural differences. Are Japanese people just oldfags who read from very old media? Is it because they have better marketing? Is it because of the titties plastered in each panel? Is there any reason why Manga's are seemingly more diverse, memorable and accessible despite looking more trashy in general; like, I don't want to be caught reading a manga than a comic book? How did this divergence begin? Why did Comic market take a different fate than the Manga market? I'm not asking why they are different, but rather when and why did the markets become different.

...Manga didn't let contemporary politics hijack the plot, action, sex appeal, or anything fun that draws people to this medium?

 

[linchan]

...Manga didn't let contemporary politics hijack the plot, action, sex appeal, or anything fun that draws people to this medium?

Yeah, but what makes its market prevent that from happening, or at least affect in the the scale as the comic market? Why hasn't it happen for Manga yet? I feel like it is happening subtly but due to the cultural barriers we just don't notice those elements, but I have nothing to back that fact.