Communists - That time when 100 million people died wasn't REAL communism, comrade

Apoth42 said:
Orwell believed that the workers should own the means of production and he supported the collectivization that happened in Catalonia in 1936. He was an anarchist and was fine with "revolutionary councils" using militias to reduce "enemies of the revolution" to slaves and commit what anarchists call "spontaneous mass murder".

The Stalinists actually wanted to maintain the Spanish Republic and convert it into a communist government They had to constantly purge anarchists to stem the tide of revolution and slowly subverted their influence with the techniques perfected by Stalin in the 1920s.

Orwell was a commie but he was aware of the dangers of the state and its ability to shape societies. Orwell is interesting precisely because he was a commie. He was the jaded true believer.
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Orwell said himself socialism would never truly happen so long as the "Soviet Myth" had so much sway over the movement, and he was really frustrated when people he thought shared his views started shunning him for hating Stalin.
 
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Replicant Sasquatch said:
Orwell said himself socialism would never truly happen so long as the "Soviet Myth" had so much sway over the movement, and he was really frustrated when people he thought shared his views started shunning him for hating Stalin.
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The problem with the Soviet myth is that that the USSR experienced insane growth in the 1930s and used that growth to defeat Hitler.

The reality of the situation is that command economies are great for short term growth (especially if you steal all of your technology and have American corporations helping out).

I personally think the USSR's success was the result of the "boundless enthusiasm" described by John Scott and others. They thought they were creating a brand new world and that every sacrifice was a step towards prosperity for their children. However, the rewards of their labors never came.
 
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"In October 1939, Stalin told the Lithuanian Foreign Minister that it was no concern of the Soviet Union how the Lithuanian government dealt with its Communists; and, even more bluntly, he informed the Latvian Foreign Minister: 'There are no Communists outside Russia. What you have in Latvia are Trotskyists: if they cause you trouble, shoot them.'" (Martin McCauley, Communist Power in Europe, 1977, p. 29.)
 
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ICametoLurk said:
"In October 1939, Stalin told the Lithuanian Foreign Minister that it was no concern of the Soviet Union how the Lithuanian government dealt with its Communists; and, even more bluntly, he informed the Latvian Foreign Minister: 'There are no Communists outside Russia. What you have in Latvia are Trotskyists: if they cause you trouble, shoot them.'" (Martin McCauley, Communist Power in Europe, 1977, p. 29.)
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Say what you want about Stalin, but at least "Socialism in One Country" is inherently less interventionist and global in scope than what came before and after.
 
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ICametoLurk said:
"In October 1939, Stalin told the Lithuanian Foreign Minister that it was no concern of the Soviet Union how the Lithuanian government dealt with its Communists; and, even more bluntly, he informed the Latvian Foreign Minister: 'There are no Communists outside Russia. What you have in Latvia are Trotskyists: if they cause you trouble, shoot them.'" (Martin McCauley, Communist Power in Europe, 1977, p. 29.)
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"Outside of the USSR, there are no Communists. Which is why we have no choice but to integrate your country into the USSR"
 
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Guardian G.I. said:
American lefties are pacifist pansies compared to these people.
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There is certainly truth to the idea that a lot of the dumbass Leftists (Black Bloc tactic assholes and Antifa shitbags) flirting with Communism are just LARPer douchebags, at least some elements of them are not so averse to plotting violence. Of course, who knows how that will pan out if the rubber meets the road.
 
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millais said:
Say what you want about Stalin, but at least "Socialism in One Country" is inherently less interventionist and global in scope than what came before and after.
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He killed more Communists than Hitler did personally.
Stalin exceeded Hitler’s tally of top party leaders, as the following murder toll demonstrates.

Politbureau: Killed by Stalin: Hermann Remmele, Heinz Neumann, Fritz Schulte, Hermann Schubert – four.

Politbureau: Killed by Hitler: Ernst Thälmann, John Schehr – two.

Central Committee: Killed by Stalin: Hugo Eberlein (founder of the Comintern), Hans Kippenberger (head of the KPD military apparatus), Leo Flieg (KPD Organisations Secretary), Willy Leow (head of the Red Front Fighters’ League), Willi Koska (head of Red Aid), Heinrich Susskind and Werner Hirsch (chief editors of Rote Fahne, the KPD daily), Erich Birkenhauer, Alfred Rebe, Theodor Beutling, Heinrich Kurella (all on the staff of Rote Fahne), Kurt Sauerland, August Creutzburg. Total – 11.

Central Committee: Killed by Hitler – nine.

Even excelling Hitler as a butcher of Communists did not sate the blood-lust of the counter-revolutionary Stalinist bureaucracy. Following the conclusion of the Stalin-Hitler pact in August 1939, Stalin dealt one last treacherous blow to those whom he had betrayed in 1933 and persecuted after they fled to the USSR from the Nazi terror in the succeeding years. Former KPD militants still languishing in Stalin’s camps all over the USSR were collected together at one point and handed over to the SS on the newly-established Soviet-German frontier in what Molotov termed ‘the former state of Poland’. The widow of the murdered Heinz Neumann was one of them, and she later described this scene of unbelievable perfidy and degradation in her autobiographical Under Two Dictators:

There were 28 men... in our group. Betty [Olberg] and I, an old professor and a prisoner with a wounded leg were taken on in a lorry. The men had to walk. We got out on the Russian side of the Brest-Litovsk bridge, and waited for them to come up, looking across the bridge into occupied Poland. The men arrived and then a group of GPU men crossed the bridge. We saw them returning after a while, and the group was larger. There were SS officers with them. The SS commandant and the GPU chief saluted each other. The Russian... took out some papers from a bright leather case and began to read out a list of names. The only one I heard was ‘Margarete Genrichovna Buber-Neumann’. Some of our group began to protest and to argue with the GPU. One of them was a Jew... another was a young worker from Dresden, who had been mixed up in a clash with the Nazis in 1933 as a result of which a Nazi had been killed... His fate was certain. We went over the bridge. The three who had protested were hustled along with the rest... The GPU officials still stood there in a group watching us go. Behind them was Soviet Russia. Bitterly I recalled the Communist litany: ‘Fatherland of the Toilers, Bulwark of Socialism, Haven of the Persecuted.’

Miraculously, Mrs Neumann survived her four-year term in Ravensbrück concentration camp, though not before she had been persecuted once more, not merely by her Nazi jailers, but by her camp inmates still loyal to the Stalinist line that had led them into captivity. Because her husband had been purged in Moscow, women KPD prisoners at Ravensbrück were instructed by their leaders to treat her as a ‘counter-revolutionary’ and ‘enemy of the people’. [34]

Those were of course also the charges hurled against the defendants at the three Moscow Show Trials of 1936, 1937 and 1938. Here too, the question of Germany loomed large.

Even amongst some of the most loyal of Stalin’s supporters it was being admitted that their patron had permitted Hitler to come to power in Germany. Stalin’s answer was to exploit the Moscow Trials to ‘prove’ not only to the CPSU leaders and the Soviet working class, but to the entire international workers’ movement, that it was not he who had served as an ally of German fascism, but Trotsky and all those Communists in the USSR who had, at various times in the past associated themselves with an oppositional tendency.
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So yeah, pretty based.

ATaxingWoman said:
"Outside of the USSR, there are no Communists. Which is why we have no choice but to integrate your country into the USSR"
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Estonia isn't a real nation.
 
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ICameToplaY said:
Mao killed more communists than Stalin and Hitler combined.
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The important lesson is Communists hate Communists more than anyone else and the more Communist you are the more Communists you hate.

Until you reach Left-Communist where you just sit in an arm-chair and make fun of any Communist that does anything.
 
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ICametoLurk said:
The important lesson is Communists hate Communists more than anyone else and the more Communist you are the more Communists you hate.

Until you reach Left-Communist where you just sit in an arm-chair and make fun of any Communist that does anything.
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In order to eradicate commies, you have to be a commie yourself. What a cruel irony.

Btw, what some vodka onii-chan?
722124
 
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Stalin cleansed the ranks to prevent others to challenge him plus terror to keep everyone terrified and second guessing who is the provactor.

This rings true especially to few preserved military orders to publicly execute several officers to raise troop morale and scapegoat past fuckups.
 
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ICametoLurk said:
Estonia isn't a real nation.
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lol, neither are Latvia or Lithuania nor Finald nor Ukraine nor Poland ...

this is exactly the reason why any country that borders with Russia tries to join NATO or just get the fuck away from the commie love.

The concept of Lebenstraum was same for Soviet Union as it was for Germany. They need to be in constant state of war, constant state of conflict with something, anything. This is the reason why they took the liberty of trying to liberate Poland in 20's, then Fins (helping with their civil war). Obviously the "world revolution" didn't work out and proletariat in US and UK didn't rebel against their masters, so help was needed to make that happen.
 
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дядя Боря said:
lol, neither are Latvia or Lithuania nor Finald nor Ukraine nor Poland ...

this is exactly the reason why any country that borders with Russia tries to join NATO or just get the fuck away from the commie love.

The concept of Lebenstraum was same for Soviet Union as it was for Germany. They need to be in constant state of war, constant state of conflict with something, anything. This is the reason why they took the liberty of trying to liberate Poland in 20's, then Fins (helping with their civil war). Obviously the "world revolution" didn't work out and proletariat in US and UK didn't rebel against their masters, so help was needed to make that happen.
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It amazes me that Central Europe came up with Fascism and declared war on the USSR because they didn't want their nation to be ruled from this.
moscow-palace-of-soviets-1.jpg
 
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