Cyberpunk 2077 Grieving Thread

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Yeah I had no real interest in this game honestly so I can't say I was ever emotionally invested beyond that of a popcorn holding spectator
Uh yeah same, funny thing is, it really feels like the same shitshow every time some MAJOR CULTURAL EVENT game is released, or some epic multi-game storyline is concluded. Like, didn't Fallout get ruined like four times now? "Yeah that quest in Fallout 7 where you get bukkake'd by a legion of Black supermutants while hailing Karl Marx wasn't great, but Fallout 8 really ruined the series, I might not even pre-order Fallout 9." Do people actually like video games, or is watching streamers and complaining on reddit the actual hobby?
 
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I'd almost give them a pass simply because "oh they only had so many haircuts to choose from" but yeah like you said they literally went and made the unanimated avatar of the AI on the ship look the exact same.

There's legit a weapons dealer on the colony ship or whatever after the first planet that looks just like the party member they featured in all of the pre release stuff. So much so that I spent 10 minutes figuring out how to get her on the team. Then I realized the actual party member was in the medical bay across from the gun shop.
You guys are mean to say there's no variety there. I have never seen such a variety of mixtures between a mandyke and a dykeman.
 
It would be hilarious if another game company makes a great game set in a Cyberpunk-ish universe & mocks CDPR in their advertisments.

Also I think Cybershit 1933 destroyed the Cyberpunk-craze in the video game world. If this game had been succesful (not just sales but also performance & no drama) then there would have been tons of Cyberpunk-ish games from different companies trying to ride the CP-wave and get $$$$. But now with all the shit surrounding CP and the outrage it's not going to happen.
Cyberpunk has always been a niche sort of setting. But I guess we should be thankful for CD projekt shitting the bed so hard it stays niche.
Grenades don't really get any better while your weapons keep climbing in damage. At some point they just become useless since you can shoot through cover for more damage than the grenade would do.

Like I said before everyone talks about how X playstyle is great when in reality the enemy's are dumb so you can kill them with literally anything because they arn't really a threat. They don't know what to do if you just start throwing grenades at them from a place they can shoot you so they all die trivially. They die easy no matter what gun you pick up. They die easy no matter what ammount of stealth you use. Everyone saying "Ha! I found this OP thing!" don't really realize that everything is OP. All the enemies are absolute pushovers.
Grenades are hilariously total dogshit. The only reason to throw them is to knock NPCs down and then just hose them or to level Engineering.
No. I didn't expect this to be computer-game equivalent of another coming of Jesus. I didn't even expect it to have anything to really do with Cyberpunk -RPG setting, except the graphical style. I really only expected it to be cRPG-lite akin to Witcher 3, with lots of action and with the level of quality seen in the Witcher -series, because that's at least to be expected since it comes from the same shop.

What we have seen with this game is inexcusable; for example the AI, or rather the total lack of it, can't be explained by time constraints or difficulty, as a better AI can be written in a one fucking day. Or that feature where people/cars are despawned the moment you turn your head around and then replaced with different ones. These kinds of things just don't happen if there are competent people designing and making the game. If I'm to pay 60$ for a game, it simply must have certain level of quality, or otherwise it's not worth the 60$ I'm paying for it. It's inexcusable that in the year 2020 a triple-A gaming house shits out a product of this level of, or rather a lack of quality at all.
Oh, I fully agree. It is nowhere near the 'Witcher 3' level and the AI and many other features speak of massive incompetence.
 
Do people actually like video games, or is watching streamers and complaining on reddit the actual hobby?

It's now about the clout with "consumable entertainment media" production. We've gone from social media and forum clout being a very small number that doesn't represent a vast majority of people to being more valuable than the actual product, I don't think the day one sales are that important when buzzing online traffic pads returns.
 
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That's what I'm on about as well.
Wasn't there supposed to be some Netflix series based on the Cyberpunk universe? All that hype not only didn't materialize, it actually went the other way where people feel let down and don't want to hear about it.
Not to mention the potential spin off games and films that could have resulted from a game that at least approached the quality of the marketed material.
Also forget about Mike Pondsmith's work being touched for at least a decade when the consumers' palate may at least be cleansed.

Great job, CD Projekt.

If I was Pondsmith I would be furious and look for a way to sue CDPR.

People keep saying they feel bad for Pondsmith but they don't seem to realize Cyberpunk was basically a dead franchise for a generation.

You see children back in the day there was two competing cyberpunk tabletop games. Cyberpunk 2020 was one, Shadowrun was the other. Cyberpunk was more "realistic", while shadowrun had magic and elves walking around the street making it more like a modern DND than the future of our world, but in the end they where close enough that they fit into the same niche and had to fight each other for it. Then Cyberpunk posted a new edition known as V3.

It sucked. The art used barby dolls. The plot was about all adults dying and children getting superpowers. Nobody liked it. So the franchise died in 2005. Shadowrun watched it stumble and ran ahead in the race becoming one of the most popular tabletop RPGs, so all newcomers who wanted a cyberpunk game played Shadowrun now. The only people who played cyberpunk where old farts with nostalgia for a game that came out in 1990, the same type of people who play DND 2E in 2005 to give you an idea of how popular it was. And they already owned all the books they wanted.

Cyberpunk 2077 being hyped is the only reason Cyberpunk RPG can even be considered on life support, Podsmith has nothing to complain about.
 
People keep saying they feel bad for Pondsmith but they don't seem to realize Cyberpunk was basically a dead franchise for a generation.

You see children back in the day there was two competing cyberpunk tabletop games. Cyberpunk 2020 was one, Shadowrun was the other. Cyberpunk was more "realistic", while shadowrun had magic and elves walking around the street making it more like a modern DND than the future of our world, but in the end they where close enough that they fit into the same niche and had to fight each other for it. Then Cyberpunk posted a new edition known as V3.

It sucked. The art used barby dolls. The plot was about all adults dying and children getting superpowers. Nobody liked it. So the franchise died in 2005. Shadowrun watched it stumble and ran ahead in the race becoming one of the most popular tabletop RPGs, so all newcomers who wanted a cyberpunk game played Shadowrun now. The only people who played cyberpunk where old farts with nostalgia for a game that came out in 1990, the same type of people who play DND 2E in 2005 to give you an idea of how popular it was. And they already owned all the books they wanted.

Cyberpunk 2077 being hyped is the only reason Cyberpunk RPG can even be considered on life support, Podsmith has nothing to complain about.
Oh yeah, Cyberpunk 2020 basically got destroyed by Shadowrun. And Shadowrun, ironically, felt grittier than Cyberpunk, because it didn't really use a class system, you could build what you wanted. It had archetypes, but there wasn't a class like 'Rockerboy' or some shit like that. I still laugh my ass off at that class. Its such a late 80s, early 90s thing that Pondsmith never moved past. I mean, Shadowrun is basically on its 6th Edition right now, while Cyberpunk was effectively dead after the 3rd Edition.

And despite being D&D, Shadowrun was STILL better with issues than Cyberpunk was. Mechanics for essence, the clash between body and machine, the danger of the 'internet of things' and everything being wireless, what really is humanity, how a cyber virus might change our perspective on the whole trans-humanism angle. Shadowrun is still superior a setting IMO. And its on its 6th Edition, while Cyberpunk basically had to dump the '3' and went with Cyberpunk RED.

The fiction writing in Cyberpunk Red...my god, is it painful. But the game basically revived Cyberpunk. I don't really see it as a temporary burst, because Shadowrun is more fun, has better lore and doesn't feel dated. Plus you can have a cyber cock in Shadowrun and breast implants you can adjust based on the day of the week.
 
Oh yeah, Cyberpunk 2020 basically got destroyed by Shadowrun. And Shadowrun, ironically, felt grittier than Cyberpunk, because it didn't really use a class system, you could build what you wanted. It had archetypes, but there wasn't a class like 'Rockerboy' or some shit like that. I still laugh my ass off at that class. Its such a late 80s, early 90s thing that Pondsmith never moved past. I mean, Shadowrun is basically on its 6th Edition right now, while Cyberpunk was effectively dead after the 3rd Edition.

And despite being D&D, Shadowrun was STILL better with issues than Cyberpunk was. Mechanics for essence, the clash between body and machine, the danger of the 'internet of things' and everything being wireless, what really is humanity, how a cyber virus might change our perspective on the whole trans-humanism angle. Shadowrun is still superior a setting IMO. And its on its 6th Edition, while Cyberpunk basically had to dump the '3' and went with Cyberpunk RED.

The fiction writing in Cyberpunk Red...my god, is it painful. But the game basically revived Cyberpunk. I don't really see it as a temporary burst, because Shadowrun is more fun, has better lore and doesn't feel dated. Plus you can have a cyber cock in Shadowrun and breast implants you can adjust based on the day of the week.

Some of it was still super dumb. Everything being wireless meant everything so the hackers would have things to do. So you have things like wireless grenades, wireless silencers, wireless cyberwear, wireless holster, wireless throwing stars, wireless gas masks etc that all gave you bonuses if you decided to turn the wireless features on.

I think it will definitely revive interest for a while, especially if they end up going further with the franchise, but the Witcher series of tapletop games by the same dudes never really took off despite the success of the Witcher so it isn't like they'll be a #1 best seller even if 2077 ends up becoming beloved.
 
So, finished the game.
What the fuck is this?
I'm genuinely confused as to what is going on with this game. The best way I can describe it is a pair of really high quality pieces of bread holding together a mediocre turd. A shit sandwich, if you will, where the beginning and end of the game seem so emotionally captivating and well done compared to what is in the other 80 percent of the game.
You go dicking around doing various side quests and odd jobs in a way that reminds me of Payday 2. Which is a really good thing, because Payday had interesting design to missions, different ways to complete them, different ways to go about things. The problem is that Cyberpunk 2077 has inherited the repetitive nature of a cookie cutter Far Cry [Insert Number Here] game. The entire game is buffeted by a massive, I mean fucking MASSIVE amount of filler that has basically been shitted all over the game. Infiltrating the first night club is fun, but the second time, the third time? It's like these people forgot the old adage of 'Quality over quantity.'

Oh, you bet there's plenty to do in the game. The reviewers will rave on about how you can "play the game for 170 hours!!11" while not stopping to ask the fundamental question. Sure, you can play a game for a long time, I've played Skyrim for 2000 hours. But were those precious hours invested into the game actually fun?
Are you having fun doing the same cookie cutter jobs over and over again? Are you having fun dealing with the pea-brained retarded AI that serves no purpose other than as a walking mannequin? Are you having fun having Johnny Silverhand cucking you both figuratively and literally?
Sure, the combat is fun, it's a blast, but what's the point? You essentially play as a schizophrenic psycho murderer, roaming Night city befriending a gang in one scene, then brutally murdering them wholesale in the next. I know this has been asked before, but where's the roleplaying? Why is it that every time I go into a fucking store that my gun is basically disabled, and I can't even shoot the fucker or, y'know, hold a store owner up because I'm roleplaying a criminal in a decadent, degraded criminal dystopia? Half the time you're just a vigilante cop, responding to every call for help from the police, who by the way are portrayed as total assholes in this game. So I go in to clean up the messes they should've handled and they still spawn behind me and shoot me in the back with barely any notice? Jesus fucking Christ, even Skyrim had more interaction than this.

In modded Skyrim, even with how broken it was and how it shit itself every 30 minutes, I still had leagues more fun minute for minute than I did in Cyberpunk 2077. I could slap on the immersive speechcraft mod, and fuck with NPCs how I please, utilizing the same-y voice actors to deliver an immersive experience that couldn't even be found in the vanilla game. I could engage in highway robberies, trick people into looking away as I steal from them, play pranks on them and more. You could play a role in Skyrim, something that the developers of Cyberpunk forget when they failed to add in a reputation system at the least. But hey, it's just a small indie studio, heh?
It just shocks me. The beginning of the game is mostly as advertised, while the ending, though interesting, simply made me wanting for more. When I picked the 'working with Arasaka path' and told Silverhand to go fuck himself, and ended up with the space station ending, I was genuinely moved for what I think was the only other time other than Jackie dying or Evelyn just getting wrecked. That ending gave off deep, REAL cyberpunk vibes, akin to the original Bladerunner, while simulating the mind-fuckery that can go on when one is hospitalized and so many variables are unknown.

I couldn't keep myself playing through the mid game, because it's just so bland. Go, kill, steal, etc, and for what? The minutia of the moment to moment gameplay is so sweet, but it doesn't connect to anything greater, there is no "metagame" where taking certain jobs can make some factions pleased and others pissed. Or where attacking one faction in a job means they jump you as you are driving, for example. There is no way to fuck up so many jobs that the fixer writes you off, or even to the point where you can make a fixer your enemy. (as some fixers are associated with factions) The greater context to what you do in the game simply isn't there, and don't even get me started on the shallow ass interactions between you and your companions. The end credits hit me in the gut, not because of the farewells given or the friends made along the way, but because it was the only moment you had where you felt connected to those characters without any threat of a constant, IMMINENT problem that must be solved NOW! Why can't I hang out with my bros, didn't GTA 4 do this?

It's all so tiresome. The lies, the false promises, the taste of what could've been a great game. Gamers have been fucked over too many times. I just can't.

wojak withered.jpg
 
I just finished on the PS4 Pro and found it fun, the main campaign was short, even though they said they were doing that since most people didn't complete Witcher 3 (Which sounded like a terrible excuse tbh) but it did have an original and engaging plot, the characters are also interesting:
I though Johnny Silverhand was going to be a friendly buddy type character but I like they made him a jerk and most of the time it turns out his advice is usually right.

As for criticisms:
It seems the best/most satisfactory outcomes are when you choose to kill everyone and be as violent as possible at every opportunity, the only time I can think where it's best not to do that is with Fingers since I read he doesn't sell you mods if you hurt him and he has a unique mod.

A lot of the perks also seem like a bit a waste since after you get Johnny's pistol you can just upgrade it and you don't really need any other weapons if you are good at head shots, the only things I really used after a while were that and the short circuit quickhack while using the super jump cybermod to get into/out of locations.

Police in the game are also a joke since you can just drive a small distance away and they give up, same with most AI and another small nitpick is there seems to be way too many novelty dildo items everyone at the start of the game to the point it seemed like they were trying too hard.

But the gameplay is fun, both the stealth and combat aspects, the driving is okay, it's like a budget GTA where it does the job but it's not amazing.

If you're patient and you want to really enjoy the game I'd recommend waiting until the DLC's are out and all the bugs are fixed and then I'm sure it'll be a solid 8 out of 10.
 
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Some of it was still super dumb. Everything being wireless meant everything so the hackers would have things to do. So you have things like wireless grenades, wireless silencers, wireless cyberwear, wireless holster, wireless throwing stars, wireless gas masks etc that all gave you bonuses if you decided to turn the wireless features on.

I think it will definitely revive interest for a while, especially if they end up going further with the franchise, but the Witcher series of tapletop games by the same dudes never really took off despite the success of the Witcher so it isn't like they'll be a #1 best seller even if 2077 ends up becoming beloved.
It did try to give Deckers something to do. I mean, yeah it was dumb but at least it recognized the systems big flaw. Shadowrun still has the fundamental problem that you either have two separate combats going on or one with the Decker while everyone waits. Which is why a lot of GMs just straight cut out the Decker part of Shadowrun. I know I do. Most people don't want to play Deckers anyway. Otherwise you have three combats going on at once: Physical, Astral and Matrix and that is a BITCH to keep track of and you need Astral shit otherwise your mages will run over shit like a truck. Sort of why cyberzombies were developed as antagonists, they've got so little flesh left that magic hardly works on them. (I like how it basically said 'NO YOU CAN'T PLAY THIS' to PCs, because if they could, it'd be unbalanced as fuck).

To be fair, the wireless stuff does add a lot of benefits like just thinking about doing it turns it on. But yeah, the whole everything is wireless got a bit much, but like you said, they wanted hackers to be part of ground combat since a LOT of GMs just cut them out. And riggers were the ones operating drones and remote stuff, so hackers were basically just sort of...there. Technomancers were an interesting concept too. I never really had anyone interested in decking, so either someone combined roles with a Datajack and a cyberdeck and we just did a rolling contest and shit to save time or I had an NPC do it. It'd be nice if there were more on the ground to do, but when the Street Samurai can literally install a radar and mini-map in his skull, taking over security cameras seems so boring.

I hope so. I think it will bring more people over to Shadowrun long term, because that has a TON of books and the lore is really interesting (Archeology Deathtrap of Doom, Bug City, Nanomachine Pod People) rather than Cyberpunk RED, which honestly feels extremely dated (And the fiction, good GOD. Its written like this hybrid of second person and third person present, trying to emulate an RP session but feels really fucking disjointed. Its like the text is telling you how to feel sometimes. It is really not good). You've got two classes right out of the late 80s and 90s, punk rockers and gonzo journalists. It feels like Shadowrun is slightly more honest. You're a criminal and you're here to get paid. You're not overthrowing the system. You ARE the system. You can't escape it. You just have to survive in it and criminality is basically the only way your characters can eek out some sort of living.
 
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It did try to give Deckers something to do. I mean, yeah it was dumb but at least it recognized the systems big flaw. Shadowrun still has the fundamental problem that you either have two separate combats going on or one with the Decker while everyone waits. Which is why a lot of GMs just straight cut out the Decker part of Shadowrun. I know I do. Most people don't want to play Deckers anyway. Otherwise you have three combats going on at once: Physical, Astral and Matrix and that is a BITCH to keep track of and you need Astral shit otherwise your mages will run over shit like a truck. Sort of why cyberzombies were developed as antagonists, they've got so little flesh left that magic hardly works on them. (I like how it basically said 'NO YOU CAN'T PLAY THIS' to PCs, because if they could, it'd be unbalanced as fuck).

To be fair, the wireless stuff does add a lot of benefits like just thinking about doing it turns it on. But yeah, the whole everything is wireless got a bit much, but like you said, they wanted hackers to be part of ground combat since a LOT of GMs just cut them out. And riggers were the ones operating drones and remote stuff, so hackers were basically just sort of...there. Technomancers were an interesting concept too. I never really had anyone interested in decking, so either someone combined roles with a Datajack and a cyberdeck and we just did a rolling contest and shit to save time or I had an NPC do it. It'd be nice if there were more on the ground to do, but when the Street Samurai can literally install a radar and mini-map in his skull, taking over security cameras seems so boring.

I hope so. I think it will bring more people over to Shadowrun long term, because that has a TON of books and the lore is really interesting (Archeology Deathtrap of Doom, Bug City, Nanomachine Pod People) rather than Cyberpunk RED, which honestly feels extremely dated (And the fiction, good GOD. Its written like this hybrid of second person and third person present, trying to emulate an RP session but feels really fucking disjointed. Its like the text is telling you how to feel sometimes. It is really not good). You've got two classes right out of the late 80s and 90s, punk rockers and gonzo journalists. It feels like Shadowrun is slightly more honest. You're a criminal and you're here to get paid. You're not overthrowing the system. You ARE the system. You can't escape it. You just have to survive in it and criminality is basically the only way your characters can eek out some sort of living.
I still need to play Dragonfall. As for the being honest about your place in the setting thing, I think that’s why I actually kind of like the Johnny endings. He’s seen all this shit, knows that it all makes no difference, and everyone he knew is either long dead or moved on; so he makes his peace and leaves.
 
Shadowrun's been on a steady decline since 4th edition, 5th threw in a bunch of unnecessary mechanics and threw out all the wireless stuff because some of the grognards were pissed about not walking around with a keyboard plugged into their skull, then 6th just shit the bed entirely with horrible rule rewrites for "streamlining" that are just mechanically broken. It was made as a cash grab to make people re-purchase all the books, and the community basically went into open revolt over it. It's very telling that pretty much all of the virtual tabletops don't have any support for 6th edition Shadowrun.

Cyberpunk 2020 is a decently solid game, if rather light on setting compared to Shadowrun. Cybergeneration is entertainingly 90s, but not a particularly good game; lots of mechanics are half-implemented or broken. Cyberpunk 3 is a train wreck.
 
Shadowrun's been on a steady decline since 4th edition, 5th threw in a bunch of unnecessary mechanics and threw out all the wireless stuff because some of the grognards were pissed about not walking around with a keyboard plugged into their skull, then 6th just shit the bed entirely with horrible rule rewrites for "streamlining" that are just mechanically broken. It was made as a cash grab to make people re-purchase all the books, and the community basically went into open revolt over it. It's very telling that pretty much all of the virtual tabletops don't have any support for 6th edition Shadowrun.

Cyberpunk 2020 is a decently solid game, if rather light on setting compared to Shadowrun. Cybergeneration is entertainingly 90s, but not a particularly good game; lots of mechanics are half-implemented or broken. Cyberpunk 3 is a train wreck.
Yeah 6th is a mess and the community seems to have actively rejected it. 5th has so much and it's easy to just go back to that. I have ignored 6th. Didn't realize it was such a shit show.
 
Let me sum up the issue in a hurry: Edge. 4th had a really simple Edge mechanic, 6th doesn't. 6th has a convoluted retarded Edge mechanic that is trying to be like Fantasy Flight's advantages/threats that you can save up and spend lots of to get a greater effect.

Basically: You have an Edge cap of 7. You can spend up to 5 Edge for an action to buff it, the more Edge you spend at once the greater the effect. You can produce up to 2 Edge per turn. How do you produce Edge? Well buckle up.

Every skill check you make is tested against the target. If your pool is 4+ higher than the target, you get an Edge! So for basically anything and everything a player does, you have to stop the game and compare dice pool sizes between them and their target to work out who if anyone gains an Edge. Also equipment and cyberware can provide Edge, as well as environmental stuff and good roleplay bonuses. But remember, this is important, maximum 2 Edge per turn, regardless of how you get it.

So your magically-enhanced super cyborg bristling with tech? 2 Edge per turn. Some random naked asshole on the street who can convince the GM that his cyber-dildo is relevant to the fight? 2 Edge per turn.

Now that you understand this, it's time for armor. Armor increases your Defense Rating, that is all it does. What does Defense Rating do? Does it negate damage? No. Does it provide dice to roll to soak damage? No. The one and only thing Defense Rating does is you compare it to the attack pool of the person shooting you to see if you gain Edge. So wearing some Terminator power armor might net you... 2 Edge dice. If however you have already gained 2 Edge dice this turn through other means, it does literally nothing. Naked guy with the cyber-dildo is every bit as bulletproof as the most heavily-armored person in the world.

Meanwhile, the massively overpowered street samurai received a well-earned nerf, because wow those guys were just too much. All of the gun skills are now the gun skill, so any random idiot can just invest in one skill and will be an expert in every pistol, rifle, SMG, beam cannon, grenade launcher, etc, and wired reflexes only provide minor non-attacking actions. You can trade four minor actions for one major action, but you need the third rank wired reflexes to reach four minor actions, so a huge investment in cash and essense just to be able to pull the trigger twice per round, and that's if you don't move or aim or do anything else that would cost a minor action. A super-cybered super-skilled street sam is now only vaguely better than naked dildo guy in a firefight, as long as naked dildo guy put a few points in the gun skill.

Meanwhile mages are still doing their thing exactly like they always have, except now spirits are pretty impossible to kill because the very underpowered Immunity to Normal Weapons is vastly more powerful with the new damage system. Whew, sigh of relief, if anything needed a big buff it's spirits!
 
Let me sum up the issue in a hurry: Edge. 4th had a really simple Edge mechanic, 6th doesn't. 6th has a convoluted retarded Edge mechanic that is trying to be like Fantasy Flight's advantages/threats that you can save up and spend lots of to get a greater effect.

Basically: You have an Edge cap of 7. You can spend up to 5 Edge for an action to buff it, the more Edge you spend at once the greater the effect. You can produce up to 2 Edge per turn. How do you produce Edge? Well buckle up.

Every skill check you make is tested against the target. If your pool is 4+ higher than the target, you get an Edge! So for basically anything and everything a player does, you have to stop the game and compare dice pool sizes between them and their target to work out who if anyone gains an Edge. Also equipment and cyberware can provide Edge, as well as environmental stuff and good roleplay bonuses. But remember, this is important, maximum 2 Edge per turn, regardless of how you get it.

So your magically-enhanced super cyborg bristling with tech? 2 Edge per turn. Some random naked asshole on the street who can convince the GM that his cyber-dildo is relevant to the fight? 2 Edge per turn.

Now that you understand this, it's time for armor. Armor increases your Defense Rating, that is all it does. What does Defense Rating do? Does it negate damage? No. Does it provide dice to roll to soak damage? No. The one and only thing Defense Rating does is you compare it to the attack pool of the person shooting you to see if you gain Edge. So wearing some Terminator power armor might net you... 2 Edge dice. If however you have already gained 2 Edge dice this turn through other means, it does literally nothing. Naked guy with the cyber-dildo is every bit as bulletproof as the most heavily-armored person in the world.

Meanwhile, the massively overpowered street samurai received a well-earned nerf, because wow those guys were just too much. All of the gun skills are now the gun skill, so any random idiot can just invest in one skill and will be an expert in every pistol, rifle, SMG, beam cannon, grenade launcher, etc, and wired reflexes only provide minor non-attacking actions. You can trade four minor actions for one major action, but you need the third rank wired reflexes to reach four minor actions, so a huge investment in cash and essense just to be able to pull the trigger twice per round, and that's if you don't move or aim or do anything else that would cost a minor action. A super-cybered super-skilled street sam is now only vaguely better than naked dildo guy in a firefight, as long as naked dildo guy put a few points in the gun skill.

Meanwhile mages are still doing their thing exactly like they always have, except now spirits are pretty impossible to kill because the very underpowered Immunity to Normal Weapons is vastly more powerful with the new damage system. Whew, sigh of relief, if anything needed a big buff it's spirits!
Holy shit I didn't know they made edge into that much of a major mechanic. Good fucking God, I am never touching that Edition. No fucking wonder 6th is being avoided like the fucking plague. I have NO idea what they were thinking. I had an inkling there was trouble when they said they were going to 'simplify' the system. The 'gun' skill is exceptionally stupid and is made redundant by skill groups, which was a better idea. I hate that so much.
 
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