DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Smleman303]

Without the Superhero genre of movies the comic book industry would be dead. Disney doesn't see any profit in Marvels comics and same goes with Warner Brothers. Hell, WB only recently seen profits from their DC games with Injustice. Luckily it takes more than just a movie franchise to stick around. Just look at IDW. Transformers have made billions in the box office but that didn't reflect on comic sales so the company is basically dead and Hasbro is looking elsewhere to continue the line. In modern times for comics to sell you need them to be multi-media hits. From TV shows, to toys, to games, cartoons, and movies. DC does that better than Marvel though each is either decent to pretty good. All Marvel has going for it is comic which people still buy for some reason (It's been almost a decade since I last bought anything from Marvel), and their cape shit which is starting to get fatigue and ushering in a decline in certain superhero films with only popular characters getting larger box office numbers instead of how their on going stories are.

Comic sales ain't what they used to be. I saw the writing on the wall when two local book chains got full manga sections but reduced Capeshit to just a few shelves.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

Comic sales ain't what they used to be. I saw the writing on the wall when two local book chains got full manga sections but reduced Capeshit to just a few shelves.

We've lost three comic book stores here. Game stores continue to fold after two years. You can't buy comics in grocery stores or convenience stores anymore. At least with DC and Marvel switching distributors it should help out LCS's stick around longer.

 

[Smleman303]

We've lost three comic book stores here. Game stores continue to fold after two years. You can't buy comics in grocery stores or convenience stores anymore. At least with DC and Marvel switching distributors it should help out LCS's stick around around longer.

I still hear complaints such as the condition comics come in. I know we have Ethan Van Sciver as a forum member here and he had a front seat to the start of the current state of affairs. I remember him predicting the two bloodbaths... Incredibly accurately.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

I still hear complaints such as the condition comics come in. I know we have Ethan Van Sciver as a forum member here and he had a front seat to the start of the current state of affairs. I remember him predicting the two bloodbaths... Incredibly accurately.

I wouldn't trust anything that guy has to say about comics.

Comics come in a big box with other things you've bought from DDC back when they still had the Marvel and DCC contracts so it should come as no surprise that you'll get some damage to them. Plus not every shop bags comics when they come in anymore. The one I had my dropbox at did that but they don't even save your comics anymore.

 

[UnKillFill]

Marvel's never really had a good animated show, except maybe for X-Men evolution that was pretty good.

You're simply wrong here.

I don't even disagree that X-Men Evolution really *was* a pretty good cartoon, but so was the 90's Spider-Man cartoon, and even more than that the 90's X-Men cartoon was just fucking fantastic. And later than than that, Spectacular Spider-Man was also pretty good.

DC has *definitely* done animated better, but Marvel has more than just what you said...

 

[Smleman303]

I wouldn't trust anything that guy has to say about comics.

Comics come in a big box with other things you've bought from DDC back when they still had the Marvel and DCC contracts so it should come as no surprise that you'll get some damage to them. Plus not every shop bags comics when they come in anymore. The one I had my dropbox at did that but they don't even save your comics anymore.

We did get to find out at least once a time they paid more than marvel in residuals though Chuck Dixon confirmed even that had ended.

Here they don't come bagged like they used to, same as you said. As for how long things sit, my local still has high republic comics from February.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

We did get to find out at least once a time they paid more than marvel in residuals though Chuck Dixon confirmed even that had ended.

Here they don't come bagged like they used to, same as you said. As for how long things sit, my local still has high republic comics from February.

It's the stores themselves that bag them if they're nice enough to do so but since comic stores don't stick around for very long they don't often bother with that extra expense. Comic stores back when they got their stuff from DDC couldn't return stuff back to DDC so that's why you'll always find old stuff still on shelves. Now that people are switching to other distributors they can actually ship stuff back to save money. This however also means we'll never know how well a comic sells unless those new distributors release the information. (Sales also equals comics shipped, not comic sold at the store).

I still don't trust anything Ethan says. I'll just contact my friends in New York to talk to the artists and writers they know for information I can trust. They already have a source I trust when it comes to movie news and they know several artists and writers I got to talk to over the years.

 

[Smleman303]

It's the stores themselves that bag them if they're nice enough to do so but since comic stores don't stick around for very long they don't often bother with that extra expense. Comic stores back when they got their stuff from DDC couldn't return stuff back to DDC so that's why you'll always find old stuff still on shelves. Now that people are switching to other distributors they can actually ship stuff back to save money. This however also means we'll never know how well a comic sells unless those new distributors release the information. (Sales also equals comics shipped, not comic sold at the store).

I still don't trust anything Ethan says. I'll just contact my friends in New York to talk to the artists and writers they know for information I can trust. They already have a source I trust when it comes to movie news and they know several artists and writers I got to talk to over the years.

I think he quoted 116000 as what he got for stuff used in justice League aka 116k reasons to like it (he mentioned money from marvel for X-Men stuff being less like 9k so no bragging). I know the numbers refer to shipped to stores and a returns policy is nice. I can't power level why that comic I mentioned is still on the shelves.

So what are your sources saying about the state of things? It can't good if all that top talent fucked off to crowd funding and other opportunities. Even the people who used to secret it like Snyder.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

I think he quoted 116000 as what he got for stuff used in justice League aka 116k reasons to like it (he mentioned money from marvel for X-Men stuff being less like 9k so no bragging). I know the numbers refer to shipped to stores and a returns policy is nice. I can't power level why that comic I mentioned is still on the shelves.

So what are your sources saying about the state of things? It can't good if all that top talent fucked off to crowd funding and other opportunities. Even the people who used to secret it like Snyder.

"Top talent" you mean the cry babies who didn't get their way so fucked off to scam people?


You also don't make $116k to draw a comic. You would need to draw several a month to get that. Typical pay at DC and Marvel was up to $200 a page max. $150 being average. It's worse if you inked back in the day when that was still needed as you might be able to see $100 a page. Image would pay out more and also give you more control over your work, however they also used to charge more for their comics than Marvel and DC so they could take a hit. Soon as you see someone talking about the whole comic instead of what they made per page you can tell they're bullshitting you in the industry.

 

[Overly Serious]

In modern times for comics to sell you need them to be multi-media hits.

They sure do have very high costs, though. I wonder if it's still viable for a small independent publisher that just had a few artists, did everything in-house and just put out an old-fashioned comic for kids with their own intellectual property to be viable. Wasn't there some small comics house doing that? I can't recall their name. I just remember them being shouted at for not being Woke enough.

That's literally what they're called on legal documents since the late 70's.

They are? Le sigh. Okay, stupid thread title stands. I'll go back to my battle to rescue the word "fewer" from being entirely replaced by "less", then.

 

[Smleman303]

"Top talent" you mean the cry babies who didn't get their way so fucked off to scam people?


You also don't make $116k to draw a comic. You would need to draw several a month to get that. Typical pay at DC and Marvel was up to $200 a page max. $150 being average. It's worse if you inked back in the day when that was still needed as you might be able to see $100 a page. Image would pay out more and also give you more control over your work, however they also used to charge more for their comics than Marvel and DC so they could take a hit. Soon as you see someone talking about the whole comic instead of what they made per page you can tell they're bullshitting you in the industry.

I was talking about Scott Snyder and Sean Gordon Murphy etc, not Ethan for that matter. The context of 116k was supposed to be residual payments for content used in the justice League movie. Sean rarely posts on social media and it seems to bite him when it does showing like Mark Millar figured out is a game not worth playing.

Hell even Nick Spencer is giving this a try. Donnie Cates seems to have gone yeah I'm in also.... I tend to take the sign that people who hate the people who did it first and ragged them for it as a sign it's not good times. Also Jim Starlin said he got more royalty payments fr DC in one cheque for movie stuff than marvel over a longer time.

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

Hell, WB only recently seen profits from their DC games with Injustice.

I believe this is wrong. I can see the sixth gen and earlier titles not creating much profit, but I have to question Injustice being a starting point. Prior to Injustice, we got 2 LEGO Batman titles, and we got Arkham Asylum and City. The Arkham series certainly had to push profit given that it got major awards, changed gaming, and RockSteady is given massive development times. I would assume LEGO also sells because LEGO and WB started assisting with every title from Batman to now.

It would be kinda sad if Injustice was the highest seller. That series is strange and rubs me the wrong way with its pretty poor stories and barren content.

 

[Flaming Carrot]

I was talking about Scott Snyder and Sean Gordon Murphy etc, not Ethan for that matter. The context of 116k was supposed to be residual payments for content used in the justice League movie. Sean rarely posts on social media and it seems to bite him when it does showing like Mark Millar figured out is a game not worth playing.

Hell even Nick Spencer is giving this a try. Donnie Cates seems to have gone yeah I'm in also.... I tend to take the sign that people who hate the people who did it first and ragged them for it as a sign it's not good times. Also Jim Starlin said he got more royalty payments fr DC in one cheque for movie stuff than marvel over a longer time.

DC does, or at least did, give money to creators if stuff they created appears in movies. There isn't anything formal, but it started when Jeneatte Kahn and Paul Levitz were running things. Jim Starlin said that he got a check for KGBeast appearing in one of the Batman movies, whereas he didn't even get an invite to the premiere of Guardians of the Galaxy. Len Wein also said that he made more money from Lucius Fox being in the Batman movies than he did from creating Wolverine.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

I believe this is wrong. I can see the sixth gen and earlier titles not creating much profit, but I have to question Injustice being a starting point. Prior to Injustice, we got 2 LEGO Batman titles, and we got Arkham Asylum and City. The Arkham series certainly had to push profit given that it got major awards, changed gaming, and RockSteady is given massive development times. I would assume LEGO also sells because LEGO and WB started assisting with every title from Batman to now.

It would be kinda sad if Injustice was the highest seller. That series is strange and rubs me the wrong way with its pretty poor stories and barren content.

I liked Injustice when it originally came out, but similar to how I blame Whedon and the MCU's popularity for most franchaises trying to copy "The Marvel formula" I blame injustice for popularizing the "What if Superman was evil???????!!?!?!?" storyline, its been done to dead in the last few years

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

Jim Starlin said that he got a check for KGBeast appearing in one of the Batman movies

I had to look up which movie, and that turned into something even more interesting. KGBeast, in name, was never in any Batman movies, but his regular name, Anatoli Knyazev, was used for some random crook in BVS. Dude got more payed for a random reference more than he did for the Guardians, that really says something about the companies involved.

This is of course assuming you are speaking about live-action stuff. KGBeast was in the animated Suicide Squad movie as an example for the head-bombs.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

I liked Injustice when it originally came out, but similar to how I blame Whedon and the MCU's popularity for most franchaises trying to copy "The Marvel formula" I blame injustice for popularizing the "What if Superman was evil???????!!?!?!?" storyline, its been done to dead in the last few years

Injustice stands in contrast to Kingdom Come where the Joker murders Lois Lane. KC Supes didn't turn into a dictator and instead abandoned Metropolis after the courts exonerated Magog and public embrace horn-head's brand of vigilantism. Come to think about it, I think Kingdom Come would make a decent standalone film. Frankly, I would like more of those.

 

[God of Nothing]

I liked Injustice when it originally came out, but similar to how I blame Whedon and the MCU's popularity for most franchaises trying to copy "The Marvel formula" I blame injustice for popularizing the "What if Superman was evil???????!!?!?!?" storyline, its been done to dead in the last few years

That storyline's been done since the early 2000s. It's really nothing new.

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

That storyline's been done since the early 2000s. It's really nothing new.

If I am not mistaken, the entire premise for Injustice came from an episode of the animated Justice League where the team goes to a dimension run by The Justice Lords or whatever, basically dictator Justice League.

 

[God of Nothing]

If I am not mistaken, the entire premise for Injustice came from an episode of the animated Justice League where the team goes to a dimension run by The Justice Lords or whatever, basically dictator Justice League.

That one was more if the League as a whole was authoritarian. Can't remember if it was the Flash dying or something that caused them to become that way.

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

That one was more if the League as a whole was authoritarian. Can't remember if it was the Flash dying or something that caused them to become that way.

Lex Luther became president and shot the Flash in front of the White House.