DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

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i have unironically read fanfiction better than this
Considering Snyder was effectively turning Batman into his edgy Sonic OC who's too tragic and cool to have a Robin, drops F-Bombs, is wholly justified and unpunished as he kills criminals and/or brands criminal flesh, is the founder of the Justice League, whose pathos informs the emotional stakes of both BvS and JL, is the person you're meant to be rooting for as he beats Superman to a pulp, fucks Lois Lane, impregnates her, and then shoulders the burden of being the ONE TRUE HERO of the DC Universe...

...yeah, "fanfiction" is exactly how I'd classify Snyder's antics.

This is terrible, uniquely terrible. I thought it was an edgy Final Crisis thing they were going for. More proof that Snyder needs a tard wrangler at all times. How do you even sell that at a meeting?

"Listen, brain wave...what if Batman fucks Lois and Superman ends up raising his cuck baby?"

How does someone make that pitch and not get told to get the fuck out?
Because it's all apart of Snyder's feverish fanboy desire to prop up Batman at every other character's expense, Superman especially. Just listen to the way he frames the notion of him cuckolding Superman:

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You'll notice, he doesn't say anything about Lois being in love with Batman, the same way that whenever he discusses this idea in other interviews, he barely mentions Superman's reaction or emotional state in all of this--it's all about it affects Batman's world. His arc. Because to Snyder--like every fanfic writer running amok--everything else is irrelevant. The agency of other characters, their autonomy, all of it evaporates in the wake of all creative priority being directed to how everything and anything affects Batman. Other characters and relationships are literally sacrificed to bolster Batman's supposed "arc".

It's one of the reasons he was so keen to make Superman a brainwashed puppet for Darkseid, with no emotions of his own or any dialogue---he was supposed to be some mute, scary threat for Batman to fight, with no autonomy as a character.

For clarification, I should also mention that Warner Bros reportedly reacted the way you would expect them to, and ordered him to change the cuckoldry story element back in 2014, well before BvS was released in either of its current versions. Important to note, however, that all Snyder's finalized plans changed was the father's identity as Bruce Wayne. His ultimate plan was still to make his universe a glorified Batgod Fanfic completely done at Superman's expense, with the messianic circlejerk around Batman fully intact as a martyr and leader of the League...but the notable difference that Superman would name his son Bruce and raise him as the future Batman in reverence of Batfleck. Snyder elaborated as such in a 2021 interview, right around the HBO Max release of the Snyder Cut:

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Because yet again, it all comes back to Batman. He is the most important character after all--fuck whatever this kid wants to do with his life, his Uncle Bruce would proud if he just became the next Batman, y'know?

That would be me I guess. But in all seriousness despite enjoying the 3 Dc films made by him, I admit I never liked him killing Jimmy Olsen for the lulz (much less him now being a glowie) or the dead Robin being Dick instead of Todd.
I think it speaks more to how, like many outsiders to comics, Snyder is someone who either resents the idea of or is incapable of making substantial story elements out of the classic Superman mythos. You'll notice in his films that aspects like Lois Lane, the Daily Planet, Perry White and Clark Kent's role as a reporter are often reduced to plot points--pit stops on the way to the main event, which is his CG slow-mo fests of action figures crashing together.

It's why his Superman and Metropolis feel so divorced and alien from all other depictions; he finds the Daily Planet boring; its characters secondary and not worthy of screentime. Characters like Superman's Pal Jimmy cheesy and outdated. It's why they take up a speck of the runtime--and why they feel facile and static compared to how they're depicted in Richard Donner's films.

And that's to say nothing of how he portrays the romantic elements with Lois Lane--which really speak to Snyder's general edgelord dudebro persona that he lacks the capacity to show real romantic intimacy and chemistry between his actors on-screen, or give Lois a role in his films outside being Superman's fuck-pillow that may or may not be the reason he turns evil, or the key to Batman's redemption as a character.

Again, Lois isn't a character in these films. She's a plot device...a vessel for the themes and arcs of other characters.

I agree with him needing to be heavily Tard-Wrangled because although I like the overall idea of Darkseid being the big bad, Batman sacrificing himself to stop him and didn't really mind the overall edgyness, it helped stand apart from the MCU.
I think this mentality is what doomed the DCEU from the start.

People tend to forget that Batman is the exception to DC, not the norm. DC is even more colorful and whimsical than Marvel is, which is reflected in the outlandish worlds and storylines occupied by the likes of Superman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lantern, etc. Applying the grimdark filter on those characters, instead of embracing their fantastical elements like the comics and cartoons have done, is literally trying to strong-arm them into roles outside of their intended purpose. Trying to force every DC Hero into the uber self-serious mold just because Christopher Nolan's Batman films were a success is not the way to counter the MCU...and WB is fucking retarded if they ever thought that was the template to follow.

More to the point, it's not like making the DC universe into some gritty alternate universe would've helped it counter the MCU anyway...because stuff like Daredevil and Jessica Jones already proved that MCU didn't have to be all Whedonisms and quippy nonsense.

If anything, the DCEU should've strove for tonal variety in its projects, rather than painting its entire slate of heroes with the same grimdark brush.

I uh
what
wait, why is Batman's son with Lois kryptonian?
I mean, there's lots of things that are stupid about that but that doesn't make any sense, was she also fucking Zod?
Not a literal Kryptonian with powers, but a human son that embodied the human qualities of his real father, and the Kryptonian heritage of the (cuck) father who ends up raising him. It was a callback to what Jor-El envisioned for Superman in Man of Steel, as the "bridge between worlds"...a new Batman as if raised by Kryptonians, you might say.

Only in this case, a Kryptonian and the human woman who cucked him.
 
Because yet again, it all comes back to Batman. He is the most important character after all--fuck whatever this kid wants to do with his life, his Uncle Bruce would proud if he just became the next Batman, y'know?
Yeah let's not forget to mention how he made Batman a parallel to King Arthur and compared the Justice League to the fucking Round Table of Camelot.

Theres also Zack's dumb idea of wanting to make all the Greek Gods into Kryptonian's
 
With all this discussion about direction and show runners I'm going to say who I'm very confident would have done a fantastic job in the role for DCU: Geoff Johns.

The guys has been in comics for a long time and he gets it. Case in point, the Stargirl TV show.
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It was an ensemble show that juggled a large cast of characters - heroes, villains and families - and was some of the tightest plotting I have seen. Not just in a comicbook show but in general. Rarely a line wasted and everything coming together beautifully from the many different story elements.

The characters were vivid and felt real. For a family-friendly show it got very dark in places - like really dark. The villains were also shockingly competent and real compared to most comic media. The Injustice Society were in some ways scarier than Zod or whoever in the movies. I don't know if Geoff Johns would be best as director for the actual movies but in terms of understanding tone, character and being able to construct a really strong and self-consistent narrative with depth and complexity which are needed for showrunner, I truly believe there's none finer.

Another key thing with him is that he is not ashamed of it being a comic book movie. There's no ironic quippy bathos that Joss Whedon soaks his work in and there's none of this terror of lightness that Zack Snyder has: both of these coping mechanisms for them being uncomfortable with their source material. S1/S2 of Young Justice was notable for having competent villains and a complex but elegant plotline. IMO, Stargirl beat that handily. 100% Geoff Johns could handle dark and intense Batman, hopeful Superman and bonkers Green Lantern with them all feeling believably part of the same universe.

EDIT: If anyone hasn't seen this but is planning to, do yourself a favour and stay well away from IMDB/ Wikipedia / etc because this show has some genuinely surprising twists. Especially in its final season.
 
Random thought: the recent failure of the Shazam! sequel made me think that if they try to revive the franchise, they should go the animated route instead of live action.

Don't get me wrong—the first movie had its charm and was surprisingly fun. But live-action movies take too long to make, and actors age too quickly, which means the appeal of kid superheroes is lost fast. Plus, the Shazam! franchise thrives when it leans into its more fantastical aspects. The character is meant to be even less serious than Superman. It would also have the bonus of not having to bother with actor's egos, like the Rock did by failing to be Shazam's nemesis as he was supposed to be.

Of course, I don’t mean one of those direct-to-DVD movies. A high-quality TV show in the same vein as Teen Titans or an animated movie like into Spiderverse (Could be also handrawn really) designed for theaters would have a lot of potential. You might think I’m crazy, but the Shazam! characters were once the most popular superheroes on the planet. In the right hands families, and kids, demand would be printing money for them. That’s why it baffles me that James Gunn isn’t focusing on reinvigorating their A+ material.
 
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Random thought: the recent failure of the Shazam! sequel made me think that if they try to revive the franchise, they should go the animated route instead of live action.

Don't get me wrong—the first movie had its charm and was surprisingly fun. But live-action movies take too long to make, and actors age too quickly, which means the appeal of kid superheroes is lost fast. Plus, the Shazam! franchise thrives when it leans into its more fantastical aspects. The character is meant to be even less serious than Superman. It would also have the bonus of not having to bother with actor's egos, like the Rock did by failing to be Shazam's nemesis as he was supposed to be.

Of course, I don’t mean one of those direct-to-DVD movies. A high-quality TV show in the same vein as Teen Titans or an animated movie like into Spiderverse (Could be also handrawn really.) designed for theaters would have a lot of potential. You might think I’m crazy, but the Shazam! characters were once the most popular superheroes on the planet. In the right hands families, and kids, demand would be printing money for them. That’s why it baffles me that James Gunn isn’t focusing on reinvigorating their A+ material.
It's honestly crazy how The Rock destroyed any chance of demand for either Black Adam or Shazam with his ego along with being one of the main factors in the death of the DCEU
 
It's honestly crazy how The Rock destroyed any chance of demand for either Black Adam or Shazam with his ego along with being one of the main factors in the death of the DCEU
it's even more amazing when you remember nerds had been fancasting Rock as Black Adam since like, before Scorpion King
 
Physically, the rock did have a lot of potential. He is big and imposing. Trouble is, the only way it could have worked was if he played a heel. But his ego blinded him, and he wanted to turn a character best known as a supervillain, who at best has been a questionable antihero, into a babyface. His whole deal was basically Superman except he kills. But, this being the Snyderverse, all the major heroes kill so that wasn't that shocking.

Honestly, if he had swallowed his ego and played his role as a villain, with the right script, he easily could have been a fan favorite. Seems like he forgot from his wrestling days that fans do love good villains. Two actors that played the Joker won an Oscar for it. Sometimes people love the villain more than the hero. So I could never understand why he was so adamant to play boring invincible heroes, or turn Black Adam into one.
 
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Physically, the rock did have a lot of potential. He is big and imposing. Trouble is, the only way it could have worked was if he played a heel. But his ego blinded him, and he wanted to turn a character best known as a supervillain, who at best has been a questionable antihero, into a babyface. His whole deal was basically Superman except he kills. But, this being the Snyderverse, all the major heroes kill so that wasn't that shocking.

Honestly, if he had swallowed his ego and played his role as a villain, with the right script, he easily could have been a fan favorite. Seems like he forgot from his wrestling days that fans do love good villains. Two actors that played the Joker won an Oscar for it. Sometimes people love the villain more than the hero. So I could never understand why he was so adamant to play boring invincible heroes, or turn Black Adam into one.
The Rock is the same guy who literally has a "Can't Lose" clause in his contract, he is deeply insecure over losing fights in film and probably has the biggest ego in Hollywood which is saying something given how many egotistical celebrities there are.
 
So I could never understand why he was so adamant to play boring invincible heroes, or turn Black Adam into one.
its not the 2000s anymore. The rock started out in films like you said, the cool antihero. the problem is you can't really be "the villian/anti-hero" in pg-13 films and r-rated films pay way fucking less as does being the villian instead of the hero.

so he became Rocky Maivia again, but as we saw in "pain & Gain" he can be the classic antihero if being a shithead comes back in style. but that sort of ended with the 2000s. its like how MadTV had the "nice" characters say more bigoted things than the genuine villians in The Boys, an extremely R-rated show with numerous rape and sex scenes and gallons of blood. Or like how horror films aren't allowed to show nudity anymore because Red letter media and other faggoty horror fans like doug stanhope think its "yucky". audiences in general are a lot more soft and can whine online a lot more so it ends up with all of media becoming pussies.
The Rock is the same guy who literally has a "Can't Lose" clause in his contract, he is deeply insecure over losing fights in film and probably has the biggest ego in Hollywood which is saying something given how many egotistical celebrities there are.
just looking at his filmography its obvious thats a very recent thing. obviously he lost as the villian in fast 5, and he was a notorious monster in Pain & Gain. i had my gen-A cousins watch it over christmas and turns out that elsagate stuff must have been bullshit because they were more traumatized seeing Dwayne being a cocaine addict despite being high schoolers than they were watching those elsagate videos a decade ago. to them the rock was always a cranky "do-gooder" badass named Dwayne.
 
As someone who grew up with the 90s Bataman and Superman animated series', DC is fucking gay and retarded. It doesn't matter who is writing the characters, the no kill rule hampers any and all tension in any story they try to tell. Its unrealistic, retarded and I'm tired of all these nerd faggots with no concept of the problems real people face trying to justify it. If someone assaulted or try to kill my daughter id fucking kill them, and it doesn't make me evil, it just makes me human. These characters need to be human, not unnecessarily edgy while doing fuck all. I understand its comics, and they need to keep the villain characters alive for more and more stupid stories, but it signifies a total lack of creativity. Why not make new characters and new storylines? Why not get wildcard writers that have innovative ideas? The whole premise of every DC property is that nothing matters and the heroes are endlessly fighting in vain against faggots that are easily killable like Lex Luthor and Joker, who have long since worn out their welcome.
 
As someone who grew up with the 90s Bataman and Superman animated series', DC is fucking gay and retarded. It doesn't matter who is writing the characters, the no kill rule hampers any and all tension in any story they try to tell. Its unrealistic, retarded and I'm tired of all these nerd faggots with no concept of the problems real people face trying to justify it. If someone assaulted or try to kill my daughter id fucking kill them, and it doesn't make me evil, it just makes me human. These characters need to be human, not unnecessarily edgy while doing fuck all. I understand its comics, and they need to keep the villain characters alive for more and more stupid stories, but it signifies a total lack of creativity. Why not make new characters and new storylines? Why not get wildcard writers that have innovative ideas? The whole premise of every DC property is that nothing matters and the heroes are endlessly fighting in vain against faggots that are easily killable like Lex Luthor and Joker, who have long since worn out their welcome.
The no kill rule is a Batman-only thing.

The “boy scout” will ice people if they’re a big enough piece of shit
 
it makes for a short and boring comic book when Superman just walks up to Lex and Luigis him
 
it makes for a short and boring comic book when Superman just walks up to Lex and Luigis him
That’s pretty much it. The real reason comic book heroes don’t just kill villains is boring. American superhero Comics are meant to be consumed endlessly. You can’t do that if you kill the most popular characters. It’s part of the suspension of disbelief.

That being said, Superhero movies do kill villains all the time because movie releases take years between movies. So they have little need to stretch things out. For instance the Nolan Batman movies had a surprisingly high villain fatality rate. If anything the biggest complaint on superhero movie villains is that they get killed too fast. For example a lot of people were fanboys of Marvel’s Hela, and wanted more of her, but she was just a one movie deal.
 
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It's not on Batman that he doesn't kill the Joker. Nor is it contrived that he doesn't because he's right that he really shouldn't be Judge, Jury and Executioner . The contrivance occurs once the Joker is captured and the courts don't hand him a death sentence and send him to the chair. That's where the forced element occurs.
 
On the no kill rule

With the Joker, it's only with Jokers who are mega edgelords like the Injustice and Arkham Knight Joker that it looks terrible. Batman's other rogues can either be contained or don't do that much damage.

Superman is justified with the no kill rule since he doesn't want people to fear him and see him as an alien conquerer, killing would just instill fear and panic among people. This could be a different case when it comes to villains like Doomsday and Darkseid.
 
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As someone who grew up with the 90s Bataman and Superman animated series', DC is fucking gay and retarded. It doesn't matter who is writing the characters, the no kill rule hampers any and all tension in any story they try to tell. Its unrealistic, retarded and I'm tired of all these nerd faggots with no concept of the problems real people face trying to justify it. If someone assaulted or try to kill my daughter id fucking kill them, and it doesn't make me evil, it just makes me human. These characters need to be human, not unnecessarily edgy while doing fuck all. I understand its comics, and they need to keep the villain characters alive for more and more stupid stories, but it signifies a total lack of creativity. Why not make new characters and new storylines? Why not get wildcard writers that have innovative ideas? The whole premise of every DC property is that nothing matters and the heroes are endlessly fighting in vain against faggots that are easily killable like Lex Luthor and Joker, who have long since worn out their welcome.
There is usually pretty good reasons as to why the heroes don't kill, the main one of course being that they are characters that people look up to and follow, which killing can bring some less than desirable outcomes, see the Dark Knight. Last thing Batman needs is a bunch of tards in bat costumes dishing out justice by becoming a firing squad. Him not killing also gives him more leeway when dealing with the police as what he is doing is technically illegal, no need to add murder to the list.

In the case of someone like Joker, he's too influential to ice without brutally shaking Gotham's criminal underbelly. If the clown gets axed, there is guaranteed to be a power vacuum where either his followers split in a bunch of different directions or another villain starts taking the reign. Joker's penchant to be a monkey wrench is actually fairly valuable to Batman. He seems to suppress most of Gotham's criminals or stir the pot enough to keep them all separated. I love how the Arkham series had everything go to hell post Joker death. Suddenly Harley is incredibly competent in the City DLC and Knight has all the villains who were once killing each other, now all band together for a mass terrorist attack.

The Long Halloween is a good example of the above, and a fairly realistic narrative. The crime families bit the bullet and rather than ending crime, Gotham got worse as the lack of structure helped create the masked crazies, all of which are more difficult to deal with. God only knows what the death of Jonkler will create.

As an aside, should also mention that Batman is typically seen as mentally ill himself. His no kill rule is very much his vice.


Lex is fairly similar to Joker, but to a much worse degree. Lex is the man who practically owns Metropolis and has connections to numerous world governments as both an arms dealer and political figure. Hell, the man has taken up the role of president in numerous iterations. Killing Lex would likely mean war with the world governments, something the Justice League cartoon went into. By that point, the JL will be forced into being dictators or being hunted.
 
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i mean, i always thought batman explained why he doesnt kill the joker (or other criminals for that matter) to jason, because once he crosses that line for the joker, he would keep making excuses why it is ok to kill the next criminal and then the next, until hes just the punisher.

*edit like batman isnt the most mentally stable super hero, thats the point, he was mentally traumatised as a child by having his parents murdered in front of him (while going to a movie he wanted to see) and he has never gotten past that which is fine when comics are just picture books for children where good guys punch bad guys, issues start to arise when comic writers decide they want to do gritty realism stories, or deep dives into batmans psyche.
 
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There is a Batman one-shot or graphic novel I've been meaning to read, but been waiting on a reprint. (I'm quite surprised it hasn't been done already.)

The gist is that the Joker is finally arrested, tried and put on death row. Normally it takes years and years to be executed. He sues the court and demands he be executed asap. Of course the joke is that he's completely innocent of that particular crime, and Batman has to prove it because justice, etc.

 
Not to repeat myself from The Boys thread, but making commentary on social issues should really involve actual knowledge of those issues. Joker would have been executed years ago, he's clearly demonstrated self control and understanding of what he does, saving everyone the hassle.

Its one of (many) reasons the She Hulk show irritated me. You can't misrepresent basic legal procedures then play them off as Patriarchy. She Hulk's boss would have been crucified and disbarred the second anyone got a sniff of the stunts he was pulling.
 
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