Debate Brandobaris about if Hitler was a Good Guy

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DrainRedRain said:
When we try to discuss things considered 'taboo', people will certainly go nuts. It's like trying to discuss abortion or the Islam, people have strong opinions/feelings towards these topics, so they will, understanably, become upset when others try to prove the contrary. Discussion is good and open new horizons, when we're confronted with various points of view, but when one person on the discussion try to make their point of view the only one true, things get nasty. Because there's no absolute truth.
But downplaying the Holocaust isn't a very smart thing to do, because we have numerous evidences proving all the atrocities that were commited on those camps. If you want to learn more and read other people's opinions about the Holocaust, be our guest, the Farms is a really good place for constructive discussions. But if you spill offensive shit claiming ignorance on the subject, people will get annoyed, because it's annoying.
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But it's considered not taboo to downplay Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
 
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DrainRedRain said:
And, imho, if laws like these didn't exist, some neonazi groups would take the big step and try to deny that the whole holocaust ever happened.
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Frankly, hate speech laws do more harm than good. People find loopholes, and it makes it harder for people against the would-be perpetrators to judge what people believe. Besides, laws against Holocaust denial didn't exist until about the mid-80s and 90s, and between then and the end of the war, we didn't see any Neo-Nazi groups taking "big steps."

Switzerland's laws are some of the better ones, because it's only a criminal offence if you justify the Holocaust inciting violence. Some East European countries with denial laws also ban denying communist war atrocities.
 
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CWCchange said:
Frankly, hate speech laws do more harm than good. People find loopholes, and it makes it harder for people against the would-be perpetrators to judge what people believe. Besides, laws against Holocaust denial didn't exist until about the mid-80s and 90s, and between then and the end of the war, we didn't see any Neo-Nazi groups taking "big steps."

Switzerland's laws are some of the better ones, because it's only a criminal offence if you justify the Holocaust inciting violence. Some East European countries with denial laws also ban denying communist war atrocities.
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The more you know...
Really, I found this thread somewhat informative, because we don't really talk about western racial/social events on my country very much
 
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Brandobaris said:
Okay, I was just hoping someone could explain the logistics of it to me, since in the photos I don't see some sort of ducting/venting system to suck the gas away so people can go in and collect the bodies and such. And I'm wondering if the smoke from the furnaces was poisonous and had to be contained or something, otherwise people nearby could breathe it in.



See the avatar?
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What they did was either hook the chamber up to exhaust from a vehicle or throw in a pesticide called Zyklon-B. Zyklon B reacts with the air to form a poisonous gas called hydrogen cyanide. There was no need for venting. Pumping a gas into an enclosed area took too long when there were far more efficient ways of gassing people
 
DrainRedRain said:
Are you sure they're downplaying or simply trying to show that these two events differ from the Holocaust itself? War crimes are crimes, but they not necessarily have the same goals/consequences
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The Nazis systematically killed Jewish civilians, thats taboo and upsetting to people as I've found out.

The Americans dropped atomic bombs on Japanese Civilian cities, but that topic apparently is not as taboo and upsetting at all. At least from what the responses I've heard of it, here and elsewhere. In fact many people have casually spoken in such a way. With little repercussion.

bombed.png


That's why I'm interested in this odd rationale.
 
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Brandobaris said:
The Americans dropped atomic bombs on Japanese Civilian cities, but that topic apparently is not as taboo and upsetting at all.
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I seriously want to know where you're from. That topic can raise Hell just about anywhere, and was one of the most controversial things the American government ever did- especially at the time. Where are you getting this idea that thinking the holocaust is srs bns equates to "omg! they must be American nationalists who will excuse the atomic bombs!"
 
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Curt Sibling said:
A pity we can't firebomb the ignorant mongoloids on FB and Twitter.
Japan wan't a fucking anime utopia, it was a rigid traditionalist regime.

And it still is. Women are pets or fuck-pockets to most Jap males.
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Women mostly just refuse to have anything to do with men in Japan.

45% of Japanese women aged 16-24 are ‘not interested in or despise sexual contact’. More than a quarter of men feel the same way
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

It's all hikikomori and the NEET life these days apparently.
 
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AnOminous said:
Women mostly just refuse to have anything to do with men in Japan.
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The only women that have sex with males are the mothers, and they do it with their sons.

Thirdly, two recent books on Japanese incest provide new insights into the subject. The first is a report of a “hotline” set up in Tokyo by a counseling service, which analyzed the hundreds of calls they received dealing with incest.(164) Since official Japanese statistics deny the occurrence of incest, they were surprised to find that their hotline was flooded with such calls. One of their major findings is that, in addition to the usual father-daughter and sibling incest found in the West, 29 percent of the Japanese calls complained about mother – son incest. This is an extremely high proportion compared to other countries, but about what could be expected considering the common frequency with which Japanese mothers sleep alone with their sons while the father is out having sex with other women – extramarital sex still being the rule for most married men in Japan.(165)

The most commonly reported incest occurs when the mother sees her son masturbate as a teenager and tells him, “It’s not good to do it alone. Your IQ becomes lower. I will help you,” or “You cannot study if you cannot have sex. You may use my body,” or “I don’t want you to get into trouble with a girl. Have sex with me instead.”(166) The researchers found that Japanese mothers and sons often sleep in the same bed and have sex together, although the exact incidence in the population was not investigated. According to the phone interviews, Japanese mothers teach their sons how to masturbate, helping them to achieve first ejaculation in much the same manner as they earlier helped them with toilet training.(167) Most of the sons had no sexual experience with another woman, and became jealous of the mothers’ having sex with their fathers, feeling they should have the right to monopolize the mothers – perhaps helping explain why one informant told a family planning expert: “We have no Oedipal problems in Japan – there’s no competition from the father.(168) Mother recent Japanese book, based on one hundred incest reports, confirms these observations, including the unusually high rate of mother – son incest, although it, too, provides no way to determine true national incidence rates.(169)
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https://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/the-universality-of-incest-lloyd-demause-part-two/
 
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@Brandobaris, I'm honestly curious as to why you're fueling this thread to stand up for a group that has at this point been reduced to a saturday morning cartoon villain. Is the next "Debate Brando" thread going to be about how Skeletor is a good boy who dindu nuffin?

AnOminous said:
Somewhere with little to no contact with neurotypical humans, I would imagine.
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So...here? Wait, is it possible that Brando could simply be our collective shitposting given sentience?
 
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Gym Leader Elesa said:
I seriously want to know where you're from. That topic can raise Hell just about anywhere, and was one of the most controversial things the American government ever did- especially at the time. Where are you getting this idea that thinking the holocaust is srs bns equates to "omg! they must be American nationalists who will excuse the atomic bombs!"
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It's not been my experience.
lolwut said:
@Brandobaris, I'm honestly curious as to why you're fueling this thread to stand up for a group that has at this point been reduced to a saturday morning cartoon villain.
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Apparently from what I commonly encounter in conversation, if the speaker criticises something or points out inconsistencies, then the listener seems to automatically and immediately assume the speaker must support its opposition. Why do other people commonly have this thought pattern? I am only comparing the two atrocities under fact I've noticed different reactions. I don't think Nazis are the good guys, or that America is the bad guys. But do I wonder how much bad stuff you might find out about the American Government, if a Foreign power ever toppled it and got access to its most secret internal documents? Agent Orange? Abu Gharib? Guantenemo? Iran Contra? Project MKULTRA? These are already documented things the public knows about, and yet many people will say the US Government is more benevolent than other governments.

Simply because I criticise something, doesn't mean I think the opposite is now the truth.

For example, I will form a rough and plausible opinion and present it to the listener. In their response I hope for them to deconstruct it and glean information about the subject. Unfortunately, it turns out the person is sensitive about the topic and believes I have now taken an opposite view to them.
 
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