Does anyone else hate "retro throwback" games?

[Enig]

Chrono Trigger in particular pushed the boundaries of what the SNES could do, and even now it's liked for the unique characters, plot, music, and setting. You can't really replicate that sort of thing and it will always come off as a cheap imitation. Even worse if they take the wrong lesson—EarthBound isn't "cool" or "good" because of its "modern" health items like hamburgers, in fact Nintendo of America learned that the hard way with their marketing campaign, yet that's what all the "EarthBound inspired" games pick up on anyway.

Ironically, the talk of how games kept improving is shown by highlighting CT and EB - Chrono Trigger was a system limit pusher that opened a wide audience to playing a RPG in real time right on the current map area instead of being turn based on a separate screen along with a masterful symphonic soundtrack that went beyond what any other RPG had at that point, while Earthbound was a 1992 game held back 2-3 years by bad programmer practices and had to rely on hacky aesthetics spamming and esoteric scripting systems no one would recognize for 25 years to hide how, at its core, it was easily described as "Dragon Quest with slot reel stat bars". Chrono Trigger was the starting gun for the peak Square era of gaming and still gets rereleases (even if the sequel was an odd esoteric stepdown), Earthbound was a side note that got cargo culted by people that damaged gaming in the late 00s to mid 10s and now Nintendo barely wants to bring up.

 

[X Prime]

Sea of Stars is proof positive that retro aesthetics can carry a game nowadays even if the rest of it is absolute shit.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Ironically, the talk of how games kept improving is shown by highlighting CT and EB - Chrono Trigger was a system limit pusher that opened a wide audience to playing a RPG in real time right on the current map area instead of being turn based on a separate screen along with a masterful symphonic soundtrack that went beyond what any other RPG had at that point, while Earthbound was a 1992 game held back 2-3 years by bad programmer practices and had to rely on hacky aesthetics spamming and esoteric scripting systems no one would recognize for 25 years to hide how, at its core, it was easily described as "Dragon Quest with slot reel stat bars". Chrono Trigger was the starting gun for the peak Square era of gaming and still gets rereleases (even if the sequel was an odd esoteric stepdown), Earthbound was a side note that got cargo culted by people that damaged gaming in the late 00s to mid 10s and now Nintendo barely wants to bring up.

EarthBound's big problem was that it was a fairly middling JRPG in a world of show-stopping JRPGs as by 1995 it already looked and felt obsolete. The other problem was hyping up Mother 3 to be this long-lost masterpiece and generally "second coming of Christ" game when in reality it wasn't liked in Japan and overall worse than its predecessor. (Plus, if you played EarthBound the second game more or less indicated that Porky would have his revenge against Ness, or at least attempt it). In reality, that's not the case, as if the "Ness revenge plot" was forgotten about. (Early interviews described Itoi doing horrible things to characters or something along those lines—my pet theory is that the original plan was the Masked Man was Ness—something that would've required substantially better writing to be a genuine surprise and not pull it out of the ass).

 

[Jason Wynn]

There’s a handful I like. That TMNT Shredder’s Revenge beat ‘em up was pretty fun. Streets of Rogue and Rogue Legacy are done in 16 bit style and are really fun fuck off kind of games. Most just seem to try too hard to cater to nostalgia instead of putting out anything of substance though

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Sea of Stars is proof positive that retro aesthetics can carry a game nowadays even if the rest of it is absolute shit.

I've only heard of Sea of Stars around the time of the Jirard controversy. Yes, I know Jirard stole that money, yes he lied about it, and yes I fully understand why they might've removed him; at the same time, taking a game that was already four months old and just snapping an NPC out of existence like that always makes me a bit uneasy.

One of the things about cartridge-based games was basically a permanent record and they had a good motivation for making sure that they didn't exclude major parts of the game or had game-breaking bugs.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I won't go in depth as I repeated myself in a bunch of other threads on this topic. In short, as an indie I agree with those saying it's a necessary evil. It's not even a matter of skill, but time. If it takes 100 man-hours to model, rig, texture, and animate a single weapon for a FPS, vs 3 man hours to do the same in low poly, you can add 30 times the weapons and still have time left over for other things.

I'm still waiting for a viable option that indies can use that isn't "lazy". Every option is rejected for one reason or another.

I'm not sure where all these troonshine reddit games people talk about are coming from. It's always the same dozen examples from a sea of other indie games. I get it, you hate Undertale, Celeste, and Ultrakill. Play literally anything else.

 

[skykiii]

I get it, you hate Undertale, Celeste, and Ultrakill. Play literally anything else.

I mean, Celeste is actually fun.... and I usually don't like the "superhard platformer" genre.

SPERG EDIT:

To be honest I think most of my issue is just.... I wouldn't mind the retro-style as much but at the same time I want "retro style" but also appealing to how I am as an adult.

Like, one of my favorite games was a freeware RPG Maker game called The Crooked Man, which begins as a seemingly straightforward indie horror game but the story takes turns and becomes something I could resonate with.

Spoiler: Crooked Man spoilers

Crooked Man is essentially about a guy who starts getting stalked by this figure with a broken neck, but to make a long story short, it turns out the figure was the ghost of another dude who actually once had the same issue that the player character has--frustration that he's not able to meet a lot of his goals and dreams and even everyday things--like there being a crack in his apartment walls--are starting to seem like a reminder that nothing ever goes right.

The deal is, Crooked Man is actually simultaneously trying to drag player character down with him but also trying to help him so that player character doesn't end up going down the same destructive path Crooked Man did in life. Throughout the journey the player character eventually comes to think its okay if some things don't always go your way, as long as they aren't abjectly horrible.

Which, I'm aware this could sound like "muh personal trauma" which I criticized other horror games for, but this case is different--I can get where these guys are coming from, its not just some vague "I killed someone and now I'm haunted by it" bullshit, its a situation most adults could actually face. Also the paranormal element is de facto real, not just a hallucination.

But most games... aren't that. A lot of times the stories are still juvenile fantasy slop.

The best you can hope for is the gameplay being fun, which happens sometimes (I liked Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom for example). A lot of times though I feel like I'm just playing a less inspired version of an existing classic.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Rugrats Retro Throwback game to Super Mario 2 is pretty cool...

Generally, no they're not bad. Can be cheap or overdone, but generally no.

I hate chiptunes though!

 

[Xarpho's Return]

But most games... aren't that. A lot of times the stories are still juvenile fantasy slop.

There's a lot of games where the "twist" doesn't make a whole lot of sense even knowing from the beginning. Even Ghost Trick suffers from some of this, the "of course he shouldn't know this, he's a cat" doesn't make sense when he's aware of everything else.

Sanitarium, from the mid-1990s was at least kind of interesting because not only was something like that not done before, it made sense—the "sanitarium" where he wakes up between his escapes from reality is just as imagined as the other settings he visits, it's just the result of his repressed childhood trauma while his mind is getting fried through IV-fed drugs.

Problem is twist endings require good writing or at the very least a new idea, and most people can't hack it, ESPECIALLY if it's something not marketed toward children and teenagers.

 

[Whoopsie Daisy]

With a passion and not just because of the lazy art-style of rogue-like mechanics, but because the old machines forced devs to downgrade on graphics, forcing an upgrade on mechanics.
If your game looks like shite, then it has to have a killer story or top-notch mechanics. Retro games borrow both mechanics and graphics while having no understanding what makes games good.

It's evident that retro-makers are incompetent because they rehash the same genre of 2d platformer or sidescroller. Where's my marble madness, road rash, megalomania, syndicate wars, tomb raider (OG) clones? They can't be made because devs are incompetent.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

I would give one of my kidneys for more neo-boomer shooters that were aping Painkiller or Hard Reset instead of DUSK or Ultrakill.

New Blood Interactive and its orbiters have been a disaster for the retroshooter race.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Real "retro" style vidya made now are vidya made to run on older "retro" systems. Like a new vidya that runs on a Sega Genesis, or a DOS game which runs in DOS (or DOSBox).

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Real "retro" style vidya made now are vidya made to run on older "retro" systems. Like a new vidya that runs on a Sega Genesis, or a DOS game which runs in DOS (or DOSBox).

Wouldn't these just be homebrew games?

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

There’s a handful I like. That TMNT Shredder’s Revenge beat ‘em up was pretty fun. Streets of Rogue and Rogue Legacy are done in 16 bit style and are really fun fuck off kind of games. Most just seem to try too hard to cater to nostalgia instead of putting out anything of substance though

I feel like these kind of games are good throwbacks cause they're throwbacks to when a game was more than a game and was a social construct. Something you brought out after you invited the friends over, not something you sat down with to join matchmaking and talk to strangers you'll never meet again. I swear it's a testament to the rot of our e-climate that we don't have more party games and kart racers on Steam.

It's all indie co-op horror slop now.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

This is absolutely not true. There were some real fucking stinkers on the NES. "Nintendo Seal of Quality" my ass. Shovelware has always and will always exist.

The real issue on Steam are those shitty Unity asset flip games made by Jeets. It's not the retro styled games.

All the "Seal of Quality" meant was that the producer of whatever piece of trash it was on was paying Nintendo their cut. Only idiot milennials and zoomers think it meant any kind of standards beyond "it won't make your NES explode" were upheld.

 

[Neet Tokusatsu]

The problem with arzette is the faggot tranny stuff not the cut scenes

Really? I just started playing Arzette yesterday, i'm just one hour in, where's the tranny shit?

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Retro throwback games are mostly trash, just like most actual retro games... or games, as I call them.

Turns out that while limitations breed creativity, most people are not bred to be creative.

 

[Calandrino]

All the "Seal of Quality" meant was that the producer of whatever piece of trash it was on was paying Nintendo their cut. Only idiot milennials and zoomers think it meant any kind of standards beyond "it won't make your NES explode" were upheld.

It meant that the game was completable and free of show-stopper bugs, something that couldn't be taken for granted at the time. Or even now LOL

But iirc the Rare devs (for example) were stressed out by Nintendo's bug testing. The standards for making a Speccy game were a lot looser. Though they managed to ship Battletoads with the infamous 2-player bug in spite of all that.

Would you not rather people be playing *actual* retro games though? Not just modern skinwalkers?

I enjoy both, so why shouldn't everyone else. Though if the older games were better-appreciated, maybe the modern ones would turn out better.

 

[skykiii]

I enjoy both, so why shouldn't everyone else. Though if the older games were better-appreciated, maybe the modern ones would turn out better.

All I'm saying is you haven't really lived until you've played X-Multiply and Xexex.

 

[Jarch6]

I hate it if it's done poorly (either being straight up pixelshit or some horribly anachronistic, over-rendered veneer on pixelshit to make it look "quality" to normalniggers) which it almost always is. I have more of a soft spot for the "PS1/N64" facade, but I can definitely think of plenty of examples of utter dogshit in that domain.