Doom Patrol

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Another trailer. I hate to say it but Michelle Gomez seemingly repeating her Missy performance from Doctor Who is leaving me wary.

 

[Racist Trash]

Gotta work out where I am going to watch this my go-to was ololo.to but that was killed, any other of those search engine type things that show quality etc?

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Up to episode 4. Despite my misgivings finding Gomez pretty tolerable really. Season seems to be an okay chuckle so far.
Episode 4 possibly has the most ridiculous lines of the episodes thus far.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

More like fucking Whine Patrol.

 

[Overly Serious]

Four episodes in. I don't think they'll ever re-capture the sheer brilliance of S1 but I'm not sure that would even be possible as I consider that some of the finest television ever made. Still, it's good and there are compensations. I find Crazy Jane less of an annoying snowflake than I did in S1 and I like her and Cliff's growing friendship. Rita has become my favourite character of all.

Like @Morethanabitfoolish says, Michelle Gomez isn't as annoying as I thought she would be. And I need to clarify that - I don't find her annoying generally. I think she's ace and been a fan of hers since Green Wing (bonkers British comedy set in a hospital). The problem is, she keeps getting cast as essentially the same character. Which is her own fault for being so good at that character but it gets samey when stretched across different franchises. Zany, random, rude woman. However, she has charisma and gets away with it more than most. And based on ep. 4 I'm optomistic they give her room to bring more depth to a character. It was quite sad seeing her dancing to that old video. Sad as in touching. I like the actress a lot, so I hope they let her do more than just a reprise of Missy from Doctor Who.

Ep. 2, you could see what was going to happen with Gargauax but that didn't stop it being touching. The actor was really good at making you feel sorry for the guy. And I loved seeing glimpses of the Brotherhood of Evil. The Brain and his gay lover gorilla are two characters I've always loved just for the sheer insanity of the idea. It honestly makes me want them to weave Doom Patrol into other DC productions more. I'd love to see them pop up in Titans again - it would definitely make me watch Titans more if they did. And the interactions of the two different dynamics would be great. Hell, I'd half love to see them cameo on Star Girl though that would be weird as Hell and I doubt they'd attempt it in a million years.

Ep. 3. Actually, and I can't believe I'm saying this, made me willing to give Dead Boy Detectives a go, if and when that emerges as its own spin-off. The guest team were pretty decent for a one-shot appearance.

For ep. 4, you could tell the cast were having a ball playing zombie versions of their characters.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

@Overly Serious I feel bad for not putting as detailed a post together

Apparently HBO Max have put in a request for a Dead Boy Detectives pilot, though those specific actors are not confirmed yet. Given Doom Patrol's initial Titans appearance which was unrelated to the DP series it seems like it's got potential even without continuing from their sneak peek here. My worry, especially with the remark about Death being attractive, is attempts to forge a Gaimen verse with the upcoming Sandman series. That said I believe the companies involved are sufficiently disconnected that it is unlikely.

Brief as it has been so far Mallah and the Brain are great. And Gargauax fitted into the same vein as they did in the tone of his scenes. I think had that been used throughout the season it would have worn out quickly but in the doses we have had it works.

Jane's mellowed a lot from the first season and Cliff is the ideal punching bag, be it physical or emotional, to show it off. A fresh dose of misery for both Cliff and Victor is always welcome which the season provides and I continue to be impressed by how Rita's performance is handled. Larry I feel sorry for because he has much more low key stuff and continues to be saddled with the burden of acting through a face full of bandages (and before anyone points to the Mandalorian that character is the focus of the show, not one amongst several).

Michelle Gomez' best line was probably the spiteful barb after the entire team was vastly unhelpful towards her. While she's got elements of the default personality type she is dumped with there's a lot of scenes (that and the dance one being some of those) where she lets a different character aspect or two shine through that work well. Her and Mark Shepherd also made a nice pair and a good contrast to the rest of the team's problems that episode.

I honestly don't think you could weave them in well for crossovers. It's like teams such as Shadowpact or even Lord forbid Nextwave. The tonal difference is vast and they just do not fit. That said if I was going to do a crossover I'd ensure for a Stargirl one that Cliff's voicebox was damaged because that's the only way you're going to get his average dialogue into Stargirl's rating.

 

[Overly Serious]

@Overly Serious I feel bad for not putting as detailed a post together

Apparently HBO Max have put in a request for a Dead Boy Detectives pilot, though those specific actors are not confirmed yet. Given Doom Patrol's initial Titans appearance which was unrelated to the DP series it seems like it's got potential even without continuing from their sneak peek here. My worry, especially with the remark about Death being attractive, is attempts to forge a Gaimen verse with the upcoming Sandman series. That said I believe the companies involved are sufficiently disconnected that it is unlikely.

Brief as it has been so far Mallah and the Brain are great. And Gargauax fitted into the same vein as they did in the tone of his scenes. I think had that been used throughout the season it would have worn out quickly but in the doses we have had it works.

Jane's mellowed a lot from the first season and Cliff is the ideal punching bag, be it physical or emotional, to show it off. A fresh dose of misery for both Cliff and Victor is always welcome which the season provides and I continue to be impressed by how Rita's performance is handled. Larry I feel sorry for because he has much more low key stuff and continues to be saddled with the burden of acting through a face full of bandages (and before anyone points to the Mandalorian that character is the focus of the show, not one amongst several).

Michelle Gomez' best line was probably the spiteful barb after the entire team was vastly unhelpful towards her. While she's got elements of the default personality type she is dumped with there's a lot of scenes (that and the dance one being some of those) where she lets a different character aspect or two shine through that work well. Her and Mark Shepherd also made a nice pair and a good contrast to the rest of the team's problems that episode.

I honestly don't think you could weave them in well for crossovers. It's like teams such as Shadowpact or even Lord forbid Nextwave. The tonal difference is vast and they just do not fit. That said if I was going to do a crossover I'd ensure for a Stargirl one that Cliff's voicebox was damaged because that's the only way you're going to get his average dialogue into Stargirl's rating.

LOL at the idea of breaking Cliff's voicebox for a Star Girl cross-over. Genius but I'd mourn the loss of Brendan Frasier for it as he only does the voice over and isn't the person in the suit. I posted a screenshot of an unaired scene from the Titans S1 finale up above that had Negative Man and Starfire together. They were originally planned to be in it and frankly I wish they had been. It's weird that they say Doom Patrol and Titans are in different universes as literally the same actors as the same characters have appeared in both and right up until filming the finale it was obviously how they thought of it.

Matching tones between series is a very interesting question. One thing I notice is that Titans and Doom Patrol have the same film feel. I don't know the technical details - lenses, film quality, lighting techniques or whatever. However, I can tell both of them have a similar Cinema feel that is very different to say, The Flash. Stargirl, although generally lighter, feels like it's closer in terms of filming technique to Titans and Doom Patrol than it is to Flash, Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow and their ilk. Cliff walking into a scene in The Flash would jar. His suit would look very different in the more Soap Opera / TV style filming of The Flash. But wouldn't look out of place amongst Star Girl costumes and special effects. Also, I kind of want to see Star Girl's dad telling Cliff "Now you watch your mouth."

I don't think it will happen but the more I think about it, the more I'd kind of like to see it. The main problem, I actually think, is that if you linked Doom Patrol with Star Girl, you'd be creating an implied bridge between Star Girl and Titans. And I think the big conflict in that for me as a viewer is that frankly, the Star Girl heroes are MORE heroic and just frankly BETTER than the Titans. But they would be treated by the writers and directors as equal in that diplomatic show respect to the guest heroes way that always happens in cross-overs. Like when Green Lantern (or Green Lantern's Daughter, whatever they're calling her) showed up in Star Girl. Starfire is a murderess who wouldn't fit in at all with Star Girl's group and I can't imagine most of the rest. Though it's fun to:

• Beast Boy on Stargirl - works. The JLA think he's cool. Beast Boy wonders why the Hell he's with the Titans but stays with them for arbitrary reasons.
• Dick Grayson on Stargirl. Older than the JLA characters but young enough to relate. Yolanda and SG crush on him.
• Starfire on Stargirl. JLA are friendly and welcoming. Starfire is her usual self-centered cow and I can't make this work. Maybe Solomon Grundy could squash her and put us all out of our mistery.
• Superboy. Yeah - can't make this work, either.

You know what, I've given up half way. I could make Beast Boy and Dick work in Star girl as cameos. Also Krypto. The rest would be straining it too far. Stargirl guesting on Titans would be weird and fun.

Okay, Doom Patrol - this one I think could work. SG guesting on Doom Patrol... they'd have to have a less adult episode. But that's okay, not all Doom Patrol episodes have sex ghosts everywhere.
Doom Patrol characters on SG?

• Cliff and Stripesy semi-bond over robot stuff and cars. Stripsey makes Cliff behave himself with language.
• Cyborg. This one just works.
• Negative Man. I don't know what to do with him here. Frankly, his powers have never really made much sense to me or been clearly defined. He mainly seems to just fall over because his Negative Spirit leaves him. Maybe he could have a meaningful talk with Yolanda or Beth helping them deal with Superhero life. I don't know - there's little natural connection with him but then that feels true even in his own series. He's always a third wheel, it seems.
• Crazy Jane...

You know what, I give up again. I was wrong. You could have Doom Patrol cross over more easily with Star Girl than Titans could cross with Star Girl, but it's not a good match. Maybe if just Cyborg guested on SG but that's it.

So what a weird post by me. Essentially me arguing an idea and then realising no, you're probably right. I'd like to see a cross-over but I'm not sure it can be done. They could cross-over DP and Titans again though, I stand by that.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

@Overly Serious there's that no replying bug again.

No need to break it outright. Just have it futz in some way, shape or form on his profanities. So that say he gets the same number of letters but the resulting word is either a very soft curse or something entirely off. It's a childish workaround but it's hard to do better one when Cliff's dialogue contains so many swear words.

Regarding the DP being in the Titans finale I am curious about the rationale behind that shift. It might be that DC wanted to distance their series from one another so they did not get the CW crossover on them, could be they wanted to try distinct series as a contrast or it might just be that loads of different services were producing the shows that did not want to cooperate.

I'm the same in terms of not knowing the filming details but I agree that Titans of all the DC live stuff I've seen feels closest overall to Doom Patrol. Even scenes taking place on normal outdoor locations during daylight hours it feels a bit off, as though the lighting has some filter on to deliberately make it look a bit more unreal, possibly because if everything looks surreal the really surreal scenes look less so by comparison. Stargirl has it similar but where Doom Patrol and Titans tend to work with more muted surroundings Stargirl's seem to pop more, as though they're deliberately choosing to make it a brighter world. And I think the Shade is more likely to correct Cliff's language than Pat.

The Titans and Stargirl I believe have the contrast that the Titans have been largely dealing with more unpleasant foes by and large. Not that the villains on Stargirl have been underwhelming but they've usually tended towards the "would kill a child" rather than "would torture a child and enjoy doing so" of some of the Titans lot.

Crossing Stargirl with either of the shows would be a struggle, Doom Patrol and Titans could perhaps crossover but it too would be a struggle because the DP lot aren't really superheroes. They don't have dramatic combat scenes usually and when they do it tends not to be well oiled combat but instead mostly weird.

I suspect if DC does anything to cross series over they might use characters who've appeared in one of the series who aren't part of the core group appearing instead in a different show first. Victor's father getting involved with the Titan efforts for example. It's not impossible but as you concluded, crossovers sound good initially but making them work is a bit of a stretch.

Regarding Negative Man the problem with Larry is his conflicts tend to not drag in others in his own team the way that say Jane or Rita does and he's not as sharing about his unhappiness as Cliff is. He's fairly private, understandable given his backstory, and a lot of his character stuff is introspective (or as much as it can be given his interior is shared space) so he is a hard one to have characters really engage with. I like the character and consider the performance good but I think he has in some ways been a slow burn and I'm not sure the writers know what they want to do with him. Which kind of was the case in the comics and they ended up doing a range of weird things.

In terms of the powers it's probably best to think of the negative energy spirit being telekinesis with a humanoid shape and a will of its own. I did wonder if the implications of him struggling to move without it was originally planned to be that his injuries had actually crippled him and his movements were entirely a result of the negative energy spirit manipulating his body but I don't think they ever did that in the comic run(s) and doesn't seem the case here.

 

[The Nothingness]

Currently watching Dead Patrol and so far it is my favorite of the season, mainly for the scene of Larry having a breakdown and setting the rest of the team up in the dining room. Plus the Dead Boy Detectives and there female medium are good guest characters.

 

[Overly Serious]

Well Season 3 has just concluded and I am satisfied. One thing the show hasn't quite fallen victim to, perhaps because its heroes and villains are so atypical, is the desperate attempt to always raise the stakes each season and one-up the previous. Instead, the show is doing something a little different each time instead of trying the same but louder (every single CWverse show, I'm pointing at you).

It also is alright with actually progressing things instead of "and now everything is reset to the status quo". S3 ended with a number of meaningful changes including a surprisingly dark turn for one particular character - not that it wasn't believable (Rita - what did you do??).

Many great moments in this season including some great callbacks to S1 in the finale. Other highlights, we get to see The Brain and Mallah. Michelle Gomez's character is admittedly close in many ways to similar characters she has played in other shows. She is very typecast. But on the other hand, she's exceptionally good at it and at least in this show it's nuanced enough that she can paint in slightly less broad strokes. I really like her in this. Kind of a sad character but likeable despite... stuff. Which is down to the actress bringing a lot of compassion to the portrayal.

I said this show manages to avoid the "back to the status quo" syndrome of most series, but that's not quite true. Cliff seems to retread the same arc over and over but I'm hoping this season he actually moves forward.

I like the Sisterhood of Dada as nemeses. It's nice to have a multi-bad rather than a single Big Bad. I just made that phrase up, btw. You saw it here first.

Hyper-sensitised to the progressive agenda as we all are some might have a reflexive reaction to a possible lesbian arc. But I like the character (the Fog) and the actress is very charismatic. It's worth remembering that sometimes a lesbian romance is just a lesbian romance and it's okay for two hot girls to make out.

I also liked how they handled time travel in this show, as explained in the finale. The season for me sagged a little in places. Like the flagellation episode. But you also got what I thought were really entertaining episodes like the Garguax one and Undead Patrol. In S1 I can't remember a single episode which wasn't high energy from start to finish. But this season has a lot more of a coherent arc so requires a bit more character development and connecting scenes. It's not worse, just a little different. I enjoyed S3 more than S2, a little less than S1.

Apparently renewed for S4 which was the writers original plan. Anyone else been watching this?

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

It took me way too long to catch up on this one. Another solid run and renewed for a fourth so something to look forwards to.

Enjoyed Cliff's arc even if him being a screwup almost feels played out by now. But then again they did give him an extra reason for that this season. Rita's development was especially enjoyable and I quite appreciate the finale giving him and Rita their lines from the end of the first episode but swapped.

I am however disappointed that those shameless prudes refused to depict the tender love between a brain in a can and his beret wearing gorilla partner.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

Jesus, they are up to Season 3 already? I haven't even finished Season 1 yet.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

Necro-ing the thread to remind everyone that Season 4 is out.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

Gave up a few episodes into season 3

Got really tired of all the fucking whining and drama between them it feel like i was watching a fucking housewives show

 

[duckbutter&toejamsandwich]

Gave up a few episodes into season 3

Got really tired of all the fucking whining and drama between them it feel like i was watching a fucking housewives show

It's the same in season 4. The characters keep going through the same drama over and over. It's become fucking tedious.

 

[Overly Serious]

I'm still watching though my enthusiasm has waned. Did anyone ever see that Amazon Marvel series "Cloak and Dagger". It was quite good but you needed a high tolerance for symbolism and Brechtian-style empty sets and stand-ins. I have a high tolerance but I think a lot of people do not. Doom Patrol is getting more and more like that. Season 4 is similar. I don't know if it's budget cuts - it could well be. Or if the budget is just distributed around differently, e.g. a lot spent on dancing butts. Anyway, case in point a lot of the sets and events have been very low-key psychological. S1 had dimensional donkeys, people getting sucked into vortexes, a villain who was a patchwork of visible and invisible anatomy and of course skyscraper sized rats and cockroaches. S3 had them all sitting in a tent in the middle of the mansion talking to actors who represented aspects of their psyche and S4 has mindscapes that resemble school play drawings and just had an episode where the teenage version of the adult characters are played by the adult actors. It's all presented as deliberate but I wonder, is it? I think they missed a great opportunity to do the last episode with actual teenage actors who looked like they could plausibly be the younger selves of the main cast.

I feel like Crazy Jane's arc is going to be quite predictable. She feels guilty about living her own life in 'somebody else's body'. She will learn that it's okay and I actually suspect, and I'll spoiler this even though it's just my speculation, that we'll find out Jane actually IS Kay's adult version. After all, she's the only one of the many that doesn't have powers or belong to some explicit archetype. Doesn't that seem odd?. And continuing the theme of different effects budget, I don't think we've seen Jane use any of her powers except, conveniently, a mind-control power which gives her blue eyes. I kind of miss Karen and Hammerhead.

Larry still really feels like he has nothing to do. His story is so separate from the rest of the team's and it's so very low-key and personal. You know what I'd have liked to see more of? The Larry we first met in Doom Patrol.

I'm also put off by the recurrent use of Drag Queens as some symbolism for the unaccepted of society. Is there anything more celebrated than drag queens in current media? Because I'm struggling to think of it.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Necro-ing the thread to remind everyone that Season 4 is out.

And the villain in episode 1 was Codpiece. I know it's childish but I would say he was the perfect choice for a throwaway villain to open the season with. And look forwards to be proven wrong about the throwaway part.

I'm still watching though my enthusiasm has waned. Did anyone ever see that Amazon Marvel series "Cloak and Dagger". It was quite good but you needed a high tolerance for symbolism and Brechtian-style empty sets and stand-ins.

My attitude to Cloak and Dagger is it was a beautiful (and the case of the second season the same on an audio level) show but it needed something more. Which feels unfair because both seasons were good.

S4 has mindscapes that resemble school play drawings and just had an episode where the teenage version of the adult characters are played by the adult actors. It's all presented as deliberate but I wonder, is it? I think they missed a great opportunity to do the last episode with actual teenage actors who looked like they could plausibly be the younger selves of the main cast.

Not gotten that far but it's sounding like a missed opportunity. I quite liked their imaginary friends (okay, I liked Cliff's version of Jesus) so them not embracing the chance to go all in on a concept like that is a shame.

Larry still really feels like he has nothing to do. His story is so separate from the rest of the team's and it's so very low-key and personal. You know what I'd have liked to see more of? The Larry we first met in Doom Patrol.

I'd assumed it was the People Like Us video, pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately that was not the Larry we've got here much like Cliff is not but I kind of agree, it feels like we could have got more of that character. Doesn't need to be dramatic, just as he starts to let some of the angst go and brings out something a bit more like the side shown in the video. His stuff is so self contained it's a shame because he clearly can perform when needed and is doing a solid job largely with his voice.

Also I had to check it was the same actor in the Titans. Holy hell, he was Bryce in Chuck? Amusing.

I'm also put off by the recurrent use of Drag Queens as some symbolism for the unaccepted of society. Is there anything more celebrated than drag queens in current media? Because I'm struggling to think of it.

In fairness, and I defend Sandman in a similar way, that was stuff in the original source material from decades ago. While I agree it can stick in the craw a little currently I am more willing to give some leeway than the shows that randomly crowbar them in with no history of it in the comics.

 

[Tepes Thot]

In fairness, and I defend Sandman in a similar way, that was stuff in the original source material from decades ago. While I agree it can stick in the craw a little currently I am more willing to give some leeway than the shows that randomly crowbar them in with no history of it in the comics.

That would be a point if they didn’t update everything else “for modern audiences” or “modern sensibilities”. That conveniently goes untouched?
It’s pretty clear they don’t change these things to fit the fact they’re no longer taboo, but openly celebrated, because they love the masturbatory elements of modern “victimhood”.

It just feels dated and drags the story, as opposed to making you think outside of the box like it may have done in its original time.

 

[The Nothingness]

I'm also put off by the recurrent use of Drag Queens as some symbolism for the unaccepted of society. Is there anything more celebrated than drag queens in current media? Because I'm struggling to think of it.

That group is still making appearances? I thought we saw the last of them (and Danny) when they left with the Chief's daughter. I have not had much incentive to watch S4 since Niles Caulder's arc ended in the previous season.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

That would be a point if they didn’t update everything else “for modern audiences” or “modern sensibilities”. That conveniently goes untouched?
It’s pretty clear they don’t change these things to fit the fact they’re no longer taboo, but openly celebrated, because they love the masturbatory elements of modern “victimhood”.

It just feels dated and drags the story, as opposed to making you think outside of the box like it may have done in its original time.

True enough. Had it been made 10-15 years ago it might have been another situation but it's a different kettle of fish right now.