DOOM

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

I just want ID to pick up the shitty Call of Duty Treyarch engine and just completely tear it to pieces, I'm pretty sure they could optimise the fuck out of it and actually make it a decent engine for gaming.

I'm just looking for a simple, fun fucking World War 2 shooter in 2022.

 

[Stalphos Johnson]

It really is. Doom 2016 was extremely easy to pick up and Eternal gummed things up with a bunch of gimmick features.

It would have been nice if Eternal was like Doom 2. A couple new weapons, some new enemies, and a whole new set of maps, while keeping the base gameplay pretty much the same.

I think it wouldn't be so contentious if the game was less stingy with ammo, or at least didn't make you rely on the chainsaw so much.

Making each weapon have far less ammo capacity than their 2016 counterparts was a very... interesting choice.

I'm pretty sure the smaller ammo capacity was to try and force the player to target the weak points on enemies.. The problem was that they went in the wrong direction with weak points, making the player rely a lot on them, especially on higher difficulties, to kill enemies. Should have made it so they were closer to instant kills and balanced the ammo around the player not needing to use them.

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

The odds of John Carmack unleashing his nanite murdermachines on Bethesda and restaffing Id with updated copies of his former co-workers that have been meticulously engineered to have the best properties of their templates while weeding out their worst traits (Romero's clone will need to be on 24/7 surveillance to keep it productive) aren't large enough that I'd put money on it.
He still might, just to fuck with the simulation and see what happens, though.

They don't even need Carmack to return. They're a direct subsidiary of the company that created Skyrim. I get that id operates relatively independently, but it doesn't strike me as impossible that they could ring up Todd and ask for some pointers from his modding API guys. If there's one thing Bethesda should still know how to do, it's implement mod support into your game.

It would have been nice if Eternal was like Doom 2. A couple new weapons, some new enemies, and a whole new set of maps, while keeping the base gameplay pretty much the same.

Exactly. 20% of the development effort goes into new weapons/enemies, 60% goes into modding/mapping support and under the hood improvements, with the remaining 20% going into new levels. I would bet good money that there's still mappers out there who understand classic doom level design better than the map designers at id and would be perfectly willing to make these maps given the proper tools.

 

[Mooger Meng]

They don't even need Carmack to return. They're a direct subsidiary of the company that created Skyrim. I get that id operates relatively independently, but it doesn't strike me as impossible that they could ring up Todd and ask for some pointers from his modding API guys. If there's one thing Bethesda should still know how to do, it's implement mod support into your game.

You're probably right, but there's a nagging worry in the back of my lizard brain that if Id takes that option, there would be a non-zero chance that we'd get DooM 76.

 

[JoseRaulChupacabra]

I think it wouldn't be so contentious if the game was less stingy with ammo, or at least didn't make you rely on the chainsaw so much.

Making each weapon have far less ammo capacity than their 2016 counterparts was a very... interesting choice.

I'm pretty sure the smaller ammo capacity was to try and force the player to target the weak points on enemies.. The problem was that they went in the wrong direction with weak points, making the player rely a lot on them, especially on higher difficulties, to kill enemies. Should have made it so they were closer to instant kills and balanced the ammo around the player not needing to use them.

They did that to hobble the player. The weak spot mechanic, outside of specific enemies were almost pure gimmick. Compare how slow the chainsaw and glory kills in Eternal are to 2016. They gave you much more power than you can reasonably be given, but they made your refuelling stops longer.

 

[Jaimas]

Played through the entirety of Ancient Gods Part 1 today.

I beat it, but man did it drive home my most disliked part of Doom Eternal, and that's combat flow. In general, Doom Eternal is at its best when you get a rhythm going. Dart in, dart out, get your hits in, wear the big boys down, recharge as needed, weed out the weaklings to clear room, etc. You do it right, and it feels fantastic. Escaping a skin-of-your-teeth situation with a last-minute save followed by frenzied panic followed by laughing like a maniac because you just pulled off a Hail Mary Blood Punch that ripped the Cyber Mancubus' armor and killed four mooks for a shower of health is quintessentially a Doom experience.

The problem is that the combat arenas and encounter design increasingly tilt towards clusterfuck format as the game progresses. It's way too easy to get trapped and then no matter how amazing your mobility is and how many runes you stack boosting that mobility, you are fucking *dead* at that point. I've had situations where some dick-mule Carcass effectively locked me in a box that I couldn't get out of without dying, because that one delay in breaking the shield so I could escape was exactly what the enemies that I'd been kiting for 3 minutes needed to shove an entire Cacodemon up my ass, and that's one of almost a billion ways the game can make that happen. This is made worse by the way it's way too easy for your limited resources to stretch to the breaking point and then collapse. An Archvile showing up in an encounter when you don't have an Ice Bomb ready to go is a "Welp, guess I'm dying" situation because they make the entire battle a thousand times worse for their presence.

The Marauder is one of the most contentious enemies in Doom Eternal for good reason; it completely reverses combat flow. You can't deal with other enemies while this fucker is chasing after you with designs on giving you the world's most impromptu prostate exam, none of your "fuck off and leave me alone for a few moments" Buttons work on him, he actively summons a buddy that can and will outrun you while helping to wear you down, and he effectively forces you to completely screw your usual way of handling things if you want to even try to be effective. There's ways to cheese him - I've done it - but like dropping the Xenomorph from Aliens into an ongoing orgy, it's most likely going to end in a whole lot of screaming and horror. He's a solidly-designed enemy in a game whose loop reacts poorly to his presence, which is why I think he's both so hated and so adored by different parts of the fanbase. Suddenly, the battle is all about dealing with him, and you can't just put him on a backburner while you haul ass around the arena for a few moments to recharge your stacks.

The last battle of the Atlantica is a marathon of a fucking battle that leads off with a fight against two of these dick-seeking fiends. They cover one another, and because their shotguns shove you, it can actually be almost impossible to land the execution while one's alive. I wound up only beating that encounter the first time by landing a rocket on one that was ready to execute and chunked him before dealing with his brother. Imagine my distress when that was only the first part of a fight that lasts almost 20 minutes, with Tyrants, Cyber Mancubi, and even an Archvile coming out to play in succession. This is some John Romero-tier design, and I have to respect the dickishness of it, but I can absolutely see why people would be turned off by it.

 

[augment]

Oh ancient gods 1 was bullshit. They toned it down when ancient gods 2 released. If you haven't mastered always-on-air weapon juggling, don't even bother with higher difficulties.

 

[Gravemind]

TAG 1 before the nerfs was pretty fun. Made me almost convinced that the DLCs were going to be great.

It smell like bitch in here.

 

[Canoodler]

So many people here hating Doom Eternal. I think I'm one of the few here that prefers Doom Eternal to 2016

 

[BlackDragoons]

So many people here hating Doom Eternal. I think I'm one of the few here that prefers Doom Eternal to 2016

See the problem is at the end of the day Doom Eternal doesn't cut it as a Doom Game. The game stutters creativity on how you can play the game and forces you into a stupid dance that I didn't sign up for.

They took great optional Glory Kills and Chainsaw kills and turned them into things you have to do if you want to survive and honestly fuck that shit. That isn't Doom.

 

[HeyYou]

So many people here hating Doom Eternal. I think I'm one of the few here that prefers Doom Eternal to 2016

Happens with every series. New game comes out, honeymoon period, then everyone goes hard on its flaws and holds up the previous game as the exemplar.

 

[LightDragonman1]

Meh, honestly the lack of ammo didn't really bother me that much. Could be because I'm a massive BOTW fan, but like how that game used weapon durability to encourage out of the box thinking, I saw Eternal's stingy ammo and the like to be encouraging you to rely on more than just spamming the Super Shotgun and Gauss Cannon like many did in the previous game. Now you have to think more strategically, carefully aim your shots at the weak points, assess each threat accordingly, and use the right weapon for the job.

Been replaying the original Doom, and that game also encouraged you to think more tactically, believe it or not, requiring the player to carefully assess which targets needed the most attention, take advantage of sniping and monster infighting, and not just use the most powerful weapons all the time lest they run out of ammo. So in a sense, Eternal was even more like the old games than 2016 was.

 

[Jaimas]

So many people here hating Doom Eternal. I think I'm one of the few here that prefers Doom Eternal to 2016

In my case it's less hate and more that I fundamentally do not think it's as well put together as Doom 2016. This isn't saying Doom Eternal isn't great (it is), but we need to acknowledge how different the gameplay loop is.

Doom 2016 gave you options and told you: "Here, you figure shit out." You're given a toolbox full of toys that slowly expands and you gradually put together which options work best for you. Doom Eternal doesn't do this - it instead funnels you into using your resources in a very specific way that ensures combat has a very specific "flow" to it. Both means have merit, one offers way more flexibility and utility while the other lets it flex its strengths harder, but they're fundamentally different experiences.

 

[BlackDragoons]

In my case it's less hate and more that I fundamentally do not think it's as well put together as Doom 2016. This isn't saying Doom Eternal isn't great (it is), but we need to acknowledge how different the gameplay loop is.

Doom 2016 gave you options and told you: "Here, you figure shit out." You're given a toolbox full of toys that slowly expands and you gradually put together which options work best for you. Doom Eternal doesn't do this - it instead funnels you into using your resources in a very specific way that ensures combat has a very specific "flow" to it. Both means have merit, one offers way more flexibility and utility while the other lets it flex its strengths harder, but they're fundamentally different experiences.

As a Boomer Shooter Doom Eternal fails. As a shooter in general I give it a MEH and honestly there are better shooters out there, anything from New Blood Interactive and the new stuff from 3D Realms blow Doom Eternal out of the water with quality shooter content.

 

[Gravemind]

I saw Eternal's stingy ammo and the like to be encouraging you to rely on more than just spamming the Super Shotgun and Gauss Cannon like many did in the previous game. Now you have to think more strategically, carefully aim your shots at the weak points, assess each threat accordingly, and use the right weapon for the job.

Been replaying the original Doom, and that game also encouraged you to think more tactically, believe it or not, requiring the player to carefully assess which targets needed the most attention, take advantage of sniping and monster infighting, and not just use the most powerful weapons all the time lest they run out of ammo. So in a sense, Eternal was even more like the old games than 2016 was.

First off, you can still just brute force your way through most of Eternal using the same few weapons, MAYBE whipping out a specific weakness weapon every so often. I sure as hell mostly leaned on the SSG and Ballista in most of my playthroughs, regardless of the ammo scarcity, which ties into my second point:

Eternal's ammo scarcity is largely artificial and you may as well have infinite ammo considering both how easy it is to acquire more ammo and the fact that literally every set fight in the game has constantly respawning fodder enemies specifically for the sake of replenishing your resources. These two factors make classic Doom and Eternal entirely incomparable given that, with classic Doom, all that you have is all that a map gives you to work with. You do have to act tactically, especially if you're pistol starting every map, and conserve not only your ammo resources, but health pickups, powerups, and even secrets to succeed, because what's on the map by design is all you're getting. No chainsaws turning infinitely respawning lesser enemies into ammo pinatas, no health-replenishing executions, no cooldown-based flamethrowers and ice grenades, no rechargeable "nuke" punch that not only instagibs lesser demons in an AoE but also deals high damage to heavies and even weakens a few of them, and certainly no flaming grappling hook.

 

[Jaimas]

As a Boomer Shooter Doom Eternal fails. As a shooter in general I give it a MEH and honestly there are better shooters out there, anything from New Blood Interactive and the new stuff from 3D Realms blow Doom Eternal out of the water with quality shooter content.

You'd have a point if it was trying to be a Boomshoot. It fucking isn't.

If you want that, go play Dread Templar or something if you want a game that is while keeping the same general pace.

 

[BlackDragoons]

You'd have a point if it was trying to be a Boomshoot. It fucking isn't.

If you want that, go play Dread Templar or something if you want a game that is while keeping the same general pace.

I've actually been playing through Ion Fury, Aeon & Blood right now.

 

[Fwiffo]

I think it wouldn't be so contentious if the game was less stingy with ammo, or at least didn't make you rely on the chainsaw so much.

Making each weapon have far less ammo capacity than their 2016 counterparts was a very... interesting choice.

Doom Eternal has a very, very specific way that it wants you to play, an extremely specific gameplay loop that absolutely punished any deviation. If you like the core loop (and I personally do, ammo shit aside) DE is a SUPER rewarding and exhilarating experience. But if you don’t (or like others mentioned, if you just can’t be bothered to learn to balance all these intertwined mechanics after a hard day at work), the game is just silly.

 

[Gravemind]

You'd have a point if it was trying to be a Boomshoot. It fucking isn't.

If you want that, go play Dread Templar or something if you want a game that is while keeping the same general pace.

On that note, since I was keyed into this myself just today:

Humble Bundle is offering another one of those bundle deals where, if you donate at least $12 or more, you can get a bunch of highly acclaimed, indie, boomer shooters.

I already own/have played at least half of the games on offer in this deal and I can tell you it's worth the $12 if you wanted to give these a try.

 

[BlackDragoons]

On that note, since I was keyed into this myself just today:

Humble Bundle is offering another one of those bundle deals where, if you donate at least $12 or more, you can get a bunch of highly acclaimed, indie, boomer shooters.

I already own/have played at least half of the games on offer in this deal and I can tell you it's worth the $12 if you wanted to give these a try.

Cool, Hedon is on the list. Always need my daily dose of thicc orc girls.